TIPs to Spot FAKE Ref 5512..5513 n 1680 SUBMARINER watch cases..

[Orchi]

Err...here's the little project that Orchi
is doing that has kept Orchi quite busy of late...

The ORIGINAL Rolex watch cases for Ref 5512...5513 n 1680...
with ROUNDED CROWN GUARDS...circa from about MID 60s to 1980 or so...
should be having EDZACHARY these...Original Rolex features:-

(NOTE: These Rounded Crown Guards may seems to be similar...
but they are actually NOT...)


1. Original Rolex Case Ref n Serial # fonts MUST NOT have...
LONG n EQUAL length with the Middle stroke of..."E"
The Middle Stroke MUST NOT be EQUAL in length...in "E"

The Middle Stroke of "E" MUST be...SHORTER.
along with the other fonts that MUST be consistent to ROLEX...
original variations of case stamping fonts...

2. At the back of the ROUNDED CROWN GUARDS...
there MUST be visible shape on this..."]" or "["
on the BASELINE of the lugs...to the watch case...
seen from BEHIND the backcase...

The BASELINE profile...
with PERPENDICULAR angle of Flanges...(90 degree)
MUST look like this..."[" or "]"...
depending on either the watch crown guards are seen...
from LEFT to RIGHT...

IF this BASELINE profile is looking like the one found with Ref 1665 DRSD or SD...
or with WIDER angle flanges slanting away from the PERPENDICULAR Baseline...

...*** WATCH OUT ***...

the watch case is...FAKEEEEE.

Here are the examples of ORIGINAL Rolex watch cases...
for Ref 551X n 1680 Sub...as well as 1665 SD for comparisons...
of the said BASELINE profile...
which can be easily seen from behind...
at the base of the Crown Guards...


Ref 1665 DRSD or SD...
with BASELINE profile(WIDER angle Flanges)...
NOT having the PERPENDICULAR Flanges...
at the base of the Crown Guards...to the watch case.


http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/_10209251665-1.jpg


http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/_10209291665.jpg
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/_10209251665.jpg
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/_10209271665.jpg
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/open11665.jpg
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/DPP_11441665.jpg



Ref 1680 RED or White Sub...
with BASELINE profile having PERPENDICULAR Flanges...
like "[" or "]"...
on the base of the Crown Guards...to the watch case...
seen from behind the backcase...


http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/P31001801680-1.jpg

http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/DSC09223.jpg
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/P31001801680.jpg
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/DSC054801680.jpg


Ref 5512...n 5513 Sub...
From the Front...Topside or Sideways...
these ROUNDED Crown Guards...may be looking slightly different...
due to variation of production period or later Polishing works...
BUT from BEHIND...
the BASELINE MUST be the same...with Ref 1680...
having the PERPENDICULAR Flanges..."[" or "]"...
on the base of the Crown Guards...
seen from behind the caseback...

You won't see the REAL difference from any other angles...
they may look similar...


http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/SA501989_1.jpg
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/SA501987_1.jpg
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/SA501986_1.jpg
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/2s0d3s8.jpg
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/1665_6mil_JBR0441665.jpg


BUT from behind the backcase...VOILA...!!!

http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/5513_Mfirst_2699xxx_mar18012-1.jpg


http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/c30c7cbb.jpg
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/vintagero-1267494411-14652.jpg
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/P3250001.jpg
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/P1020649.jpg
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/P1010962_1.jpg
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/IMG_7964.jpg
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/8aaf1b62.jpg
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/5513_Mfirst_2699xxx_mar18012.jpg
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/55.jpg
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/36212094.jpg
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/34inss5.jpg


Here are the pictures showing exactly that...
ALL Original Rolex watch cases...
should have the...SHORT Middle Stroke of "E"...
It should NOT have the Middle Stroke in EQUAL length...

NO Exception:
The Middle Stroke MUST NOT be of EQUAL in length...
thus the so called...LONG Middle Stroke "E".


http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/84624856.jpg
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/18198364.jpg
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/ffca7797.jpg
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/P3250009.jpg
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/DSC05741.jpg


THESE here are pictures showing the 5512...5513...1680...
found in eBay...to have FAKEEEEEE...watch cases...
being sold from Hong Kong mostly...

The irony?...the relevant Seller(s) could also be members...
n lurkers in VRF...?

http://cgi.ebay.com/1970-Rolex-Submariner-5512-660ft-200m-Maxi-Dial-Divers_W0QQitemZ270546101182QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWri stwatches?hash=item3efdcde3be


http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/WatchNavi.jpg
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/WN3.jpg
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/WN2.jpg


http://cgi.ebay.com/Rolex-Submariner-5513-Gloss-Dial-with-RSC-Paper_W0QQitemZ140383455768QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWris twatches?hash=item20af818a18#ht_6323wt_958

http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/TimeHolder.jpg
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/TM5.jpg
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/TM4.jpg
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/TM3.jpg
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/TM2.jpg

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rolex-Submariner-5513-Gloss-Dial-with-RSC-Paper_W0QQitemZ140383455768QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWris twatches?hash=item20af818a18#ht_6323wt_958


http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/Fake1680-TM3.jpg
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/Fake1680-TM2.jpg
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/Fake1680-TM1.jpg
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/Fake1680-TM.jpg

http://shop.ebay.com.au/time_holder/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=10&_rdc=1


The EXPERTS have already known about these facts...for years...
BUT Orchi hopes that the Newcomers to TRF...
could be well alerted...accordingly...

IF Orchi had done this little project before September 2009...
one of Orchi's buddies in here...would NOT have gotten burnt...
ending up with a "1680" Submariner with FAKEEEE...watch case.

Very Sorry for this LONG winded Post...
IF this little project of Orchi offends the freaking Seller(s)...
from Hong Kong or elsewhere...:dummy::dummy:

So be it...:dummy::dummy:

NOTE: All pictures are except from VRF Market...
with exception of those showing...
the FAKEEE watch cases...from eBay.

Best regards
Orchi.

[mcjp6]

I would have to say that is a brilliant post.......:thumbsup:

[Safetrends]

A lot to understand and take in, however it is important to learn this if we are going to buy vintage watches.

Let me understand what you are pointing out

The E has a long stroke on the top and bottom and a short stroke in the middle if I am reading this correct?

[youngr]

Many thanks for the post always good info to have.

[marcinthemiddle]

Thanks, Orchi! It must've taken a while to get all the infopics compiled into this post....
Nice Sunday morning read! :chuckle: !
:cheers:

[Orchi]

Err...looking at BASELINE profile of the Crown Guards...from behind...
of this Original Ref 1665 SD...

http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/_10209251665-2.jpg?t=1269785878
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/open11665-1.jpg


Here's looking at BASELINE profile of the Crown Guards...from behind...
of this Original Ref 5513 SUB...with ROUNDED Crown Guards.


http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/P3250001-1.jpg


Here's looking at BASELINE profile of the Crown Guards...from behind...
of this Original Ref 1680 SUB...with ROUNDED Crown Guards...


http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/DSC09223-1.jpg
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/DSC09223-1-1.jpg


On the BASELINE of the Crown Guards of 551X n 1680 SUB watch cases...
You will find "[" n "]"...from behind...


The FAKEEEE watch cases...do NOT have this "[" shape...
at the BASELINE profile of its Crown Guards...:dummy::dummy:


http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/TM3-1.jpg
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/Fake1680-TM3-1.jpg
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/Fake1680-TM-1.jpg
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/Fake1680-TM3-1.jpg


FAKEEE "1680" Watch case...:dummy::dummy:

http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac104/rookiecollector/Fake1680-TM4-1.jpg


Best regards
Orchi.

[Orchi]

A lot to understand and take in, however it is important to learn this if we are going to buy vintage watches.

Let me understand what you are pointing out

The E has a long stroke on the top and bottom and a short stroke in the middle if I am reading this correct?Err buddy David...YES...NO EXCEPTION...:dummy::dummy:

ALL the Strokes in "E"...MUST NOT be exactly EQUAL in length...
The Middle Stroke of "E"...has to be SHORTER...:thumbsup:

[Safetrends]

Post number six is really clear, thanks. You rock!

[rfknauss]

Orchi, as usual, I always learn something from your posts. Thank you very much for increasing my knowledge of Rolex watches.
:cheers:

[Dilemma]

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj280/Dilemma_1962/LugHoles.jpg

[springer]

Good post orchi. And not to confuse the crown guards with the highly-counterfeited vintage GMT/Explorer II's with Submariners, when viewing the back of the GMT Explorer II crown guards, the cut-out is "V" shaped like on the photos of Orchi's SeaDweller, and not cut at 90 degree angles.

The first attached is a pic of a genuine, vintage GMT depicting the back of the crown guards. The photo-shopped white lines highlight the "V" shape of the crown guards. The second pic is also of a genuine GMT.

[STEELINOX]

"illuminating" info Orchi ! :cheers:

[Alexus]

thanks! great info

[MikeyTX]

Excellent info Orchi. I thank you. Another masterful tutorial for my "Orchi file."

[TSKDUS]

That is great information and learning opportunity. Thanks for sharing, Orchi! Will you be considering a next segment for the next generation Submariners (16800's)? Cheers

[ParisDakarBmw]

Thanks! Orchi

[MitchSteel]

Excellent.Thank you, Orchi.

[sergio27]

Orchi thank you, I learned something today. Now I am happy

[hng]

I was searching for 1680 info as I plan to acquire one and come acroos this great info. Thanks Orchi!

[Orchi]

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj280/Dilemma_1962/LugHoles.jpgErr buddy Dilemma...sorry for missing your post...n this late response...:dummy:

The lug holes are too far inside...thus NOT correct.:thumbsdow

[rva33145]

Very helpful. Thanks.

[MikeyTX]

Holy watch spring Batman That took a lot of reading :clap:

[Payesrob]

Interesting, mainly because I own one and i love it

[Freelance]

Any chance the broken Photobucket photo links can be fixed on this tread?

[dieseldragon]

Any chance the broken Photobucket photo links can be fixed on this tread?

X2 please!