Omega PO versus Rolex Submariner

[haakon59]

If you own both, do you favor one or the other? The PO has better lume, I realize, and the new co-axial escapement is a nice innovation too. How does the PO compare to Rolex in the way it feels on the wrist, i.e., is one heavier or bulkier than the other? Do you like both after wearing them or wind up heavily favoring one over the other? I am just wondering because I am considering both of these models--I hope it works out this summer. They are both great brands, great models, I think, but was wondering about your experiences. Thanks in advance. :cheers:

[BondandBigM]

I have both, the PO is a nice watch but bigger and heavier than the sub. A couple of things I did notice was that the PO seems to start within seconds of picking it up from the box whereas the Sub needs a couple of turns on the winder. I would also say that the second hand on the sub appears to sweep smoother than the PO.

I also think somewhere down the road if you are ever in a corner and need some quick bail out money you will definately get more for a Sub that a PO.

B.

[ohlins]

the sweep on the rolex is smoother cos the 3135 is a higher beat movement at 28,800 vph.......omega has tuned down their movement to better match the co-axial escapement....

[leopardprey]

Well, after having owned a Sub and an Omega SMP, and now examining the PO at several dealers, I would have to say the Omega PO is a better buy.

Don't get me wrong, the SUB is great watch.

But here is why I like the PO better:

Cost about $1500-$2000 less

Strong, proven ETA 2982 base movement reworked with the Co-axial movement is just as reliable as the Rolex 3135 movement, and maybe even better since uses ball bearings for the rotor. Also, if Omega's claim is right, needs less lubrication and less time between service intervals.

The bracelet fits flush against the skin. The bracelet is also more smoothed out, no rough edges at all. Also bracelet has no taper.

The case as well is very smoothed out, no rough edges at all, unline the Sub which as sharp lugs and also the edges of the case are sharp that eat into some's wrist. Case of the PO is very comfortable on the wrist.

The PO 42mm is the perfect size (I think the 45.5mm version is too big unless you have massive 8.5"wrist or greater)

I like the domed bezel on the PO. Very nice look.

Crystal has anti-reflective coating. Easier to see, no glare. Also not having to constantly wipe off fingerprints and smudges as you have to with the Sub.

MUch better lumination on the hands and dial than the Sub. Can read the dial all night long. Where as with the sub, very difficult to see. Also the minute hand is in general larger and easier to see at a quick glance, especially good when checking your time while lap swimming or diving.

For the $1500 - $2000 you save in Buying the PO, you could take a week long SCUBA diving course or do some serious travel.

If you want you can buy Omega Rubber strap, synthetic strap with deployment clasp, or leather strap made specifically for the PO.

[Blue Bull]

I compared my Dweller next to a 42mm PO,steel bracelet,at the AD.The Dweller looks small against the 42mm PO.At a later date,I compared the Orange PO,leather strap to the Sea-Dweller.Rediculous size,even for me who have large wrists.Talk about top heavy.There is no contest.Its Rolex all the way for me.I bought a white Expl II,as my third Rolex.

Only one Omega worth considering,IMO and thats the Speedie Prof "Moonwatch".

Go for a ss sport Rolex !! :cheers:

[TARDIS]

I had a brief (5 month) ownership of a 42mm PO with an orange bezel and steel bracelet. Shortly after I bought it I regretted not getting the black bezel model as I found the orange a bit lairy for me. The watch itself was very good value for money from an AD who gave me a substantial discount of about 24% off RRP. The movement was co-axial and very accurate. No problem there.

PROS:
good price (for me)
nice dial
lovely caseback
Very good Lume
Excellent movement
well known brand
3yr warranty
COSC certificate obtained from Omega Switzerland

CONS:
depreciation
weight [I found the watch heavy on the wrist and it was prone to getting bumped as I had to wear it loose because the bracelet was either too tight or too loose. I found this irritating on a watch of this class not having a clasp adjustment.]
steel was noticeably more scratch prone being 316L

Finally there's the personal aspect of whether one is a fan of Omega or Rolex. No-one else can determine that for you. You have to look and try on each model. I always favoured Rolex at the back of my mind for personal reasons.

That's why I went back to the Submariner. Like an old friend.

[JPSUB]

I was in this same situation about 3 weeks ago. I had been a fan of Omega and had decided I would go with the PO. Then I remembered how I had once wanted the SS Sub. I really like the look of the PO and the price makes it seem even better. Ultimately after reading many reviews and talking to several people I was sold on the Sub. Here are some of the reasons why I ended up with a Rolex over the Omega.

- Resale value. My AD convinced me I would be able to regroup most of my money if I needed to sell the Sub. Said for the PO would not be able to get nearly as much back. I have since read this else where and even on this forum. With this I figured if I wasnt satisfied I could always flip it for the PO.

- Size. I have a smaller wrist so the Sub just seemed to fit better.

- Prestige The quality of the Rolex brand and recognizability also made it an attractive buy.

- Classic look.

- Was Bond's original watch, the one I grew up wanting until Omega appeared in the newer movies.

All in all after years of wanting an Omega I ended up with the Sub and could not be happier. The AD's have been great so far and the Rolex community has been great as well. Every time I look at the watch I am satisfied and feel that I own one of the best and most sought after wrist watches in the world. Seems like there is a certain sense of pride that comes with owning a Rolex.
Anyway that is just my story with the same situation. Good luck and let us know what you decide on.

[ADISMO]

I'm a long time Omega, Breitling, and Panerai fan. Mostly because of movies. I was convinced to buy an Omega as my first luxury watch, until the AD brought up the term "resale value"

Out of curiosity, anyone know how Panerai's hold resale value?

It doesnt matter anyways, I'm picking up the Rolex. Its a great daily wearer, no uneccesary bulk, with more than enough class and substance. Now to decide between the Seadweller and GMT.

[leopardprey]

JPSUB, some really good points you make of why some choose a Rolex Sub over an Omega. The history, reputation, prestige and tradition of Rolex has a lot going for it.

To be honest, if we aonly wanted a watch that was tough, reliable and told us the time, we would jsut all pay $100 and get a good Casio G Shock.

But, the reason we pay more and buy a Rolex or Omega, is more for prestige, tradition, recognition, and fashion looks.

[ohlins]

F. Piguet base movement reworked with the Co-axial movement is just as reliable as the Rolex 3135 movement, and maybe even better since uses ball bearings for the rotor. Also, if Omega's claim is right, needs less lubrication and less time between service intervals.


pardon my ignorance.....when did the OP start using a FP movement...?? isnt that a ETA inside all along..?

[leopardprey]

I read that the new Co-Axial movements are using F. Piguet bases and then are fine tuned with the co-axial part for their Planet Ocean Chronograph. For just the plain Diver Chronmeter, ETA 2892 is used (which technically is an in house movement, since ETA and Omega are both of the same company)as the base, then it is reworked and the co-axial is added.

[ohlins]

so u r talking about the PO or the PO chrono.......?

your earlier posting was about the PO .....not the PO chrono, which incidentally uses omega 3313 caliber that was based on a FP chrono movement.....

[black_hole]

I also have own both. I would go for the Rolex : more reliable and better feeling on the wrist...

[leopardprey]

more reliable and better feeling on the wrist

I would have to disagree with you on that. With the Omega's case and bracelet being better smoothed out and no sharp edges like the Rolex, the Omega is much more comfortable. Also the Rolex inner deployment clasp sits above the rest of the clasp, unlike the OMegas which folds into the bracelet, making it all around smoother fit on the underside of the wrist.

[haakon59]

Thank you for sharing your experiences and advice on these two models--I appreciate it. :thumbsup:

[leopardprey]

As for the argument on resale value, I do not really see it. The Rolex cost more so you will get more when you sell it, but you are also loosing more.

Should not buy a watch for re-sale value, you are going to loose money when you sell unless you wait a long long time. Better to buy a watch that has the function, looks, and fit you want and then use.

I do like the Rolex watches I have. But, lets be honest, if it said "timex" on the dial instead of Rolex, would the Rolex really be worth several thousand dollars more than the Omega. Rolex is a fine watch, but IMHO the Omega is a much better buy. I have had an Omega SMP which I paid $1900 for and a Roex Sub which cost me $4500. The SMP was the better watch in many ways, and I could not see how the Rolex was worth the extra $2600. It is a name, recognition, history, and tradition you are buying with the Rolex.

[Blue Bull]

As for the argument on resale value, I do not really see it. The Rolex cost more so you will get more when you sell it, but you are also loosing more.

Should not buy a watch for re-sale value, you are going to loose money when you sell unless you wait a long long time. Better to buy a watch that has the function, looks, and fit you want and then use.

I do like the Rolex watches I have. But, lets be honest, if it said "timex" on the dial instead of Rolex, would the Rolex really be worth several thousand dollars more than the Omega. Rolex is a fine watch, but IMHO the Omega is a much better buy. I have had an Omega SMP which I paid $1900 for and a Roex Sub which cost me $4500. The SMP was the better watch in many ways, and I could not see how the Rolex was worth the extra $2600. It is a name, recognition, history, and tradition you are buying with the Rolex.


Yes Sir,but it does not say Timex on the dial.I suppose Omega is a good watch,just like Seiko is,but sorry,Omega isnt Rolex and will never be .... I nearly bought a PO,but the Expl II was the better buy,especially in my part of the world,where Omega has absolutely no resale value.When taking out the big money stay with Rolex.

[leopardprey]

I agree Rolex is a great watch. But, what I am saying is you are buying the name. If Timex made an exact to the minute detail copy of a Rolex, you would not pay $2500 more for it than an Omega. It is the name Rolex you are paying the extra money for, as yes it does hold value. But, if you are not interested in future resell value, then the Omega is a much better deal. (BTW, I am wearing my White Exp II as I type this as well, which I really like, but looking at a White dial Omega GMT that is only going to cost me $1500, do not again see the $2500 difference and there are actually features that I like on the Omega that I wish Rolex would have.).

Now lets look at value. If I buy the Omega and decide to sell, I can probably sell for lets say $1000 - so I am out $500. If I sell my Explorer II, that I bought for $4100, I can probably sell for $3600. Ia m still out $500 both ways. If I keep the Explorer II for 10 years, I can probably sell for the same price I bought it. If I keep the Omega for 10 years, can probably sell for the same price as well? Maybe, maybe not. But, probably can since a discontinued model. So in some ways the same value. Where the Rolex has an advantage, is that it is easier to resell.

Now in terms of the inner movement, I would say they are equal. In terms of the bracelet and clasp design, I would say Omega is better. Even if you think Rolex is better, is it $2500 better. We are paying for name. Now, me> i like that name, as it brings recognistion, history, sense of acheivement, and a tradition.

But, if you took an uninformed person, took the brand names off both watches and put them side by side, I think the Omega would come out ahead. Especially when the Sub was priced at $2000 more than the PO.

[Blue Bull]

I agree Rolex is a great watch. But, what I am saying is you are buying the name. If Timex made an exact to the minute detail copy of a Rolex, you would not pay $2500 more for it than an Omega. It is the name Rolex you are paying the extra money for, as yes it does hold value. But, if you are not interested in future resell value, then the Omega is a much better deal. (BTW, I am wearing my White Exp II as I type this as well, which I really like, but looking at a White dial Omega GMT that is only going to cost me $1500, do not again see the $2500 difference and there are actually features that I like on the Omega that I wish Rolex would have.).

Now lets look at value. If I buy the Omega and decide to sell, I can probably sell for lets say $1000 - so I am out $500. If I sell my Explorer II, that I bought for $4100, I can probably sell for $3600. Ia m still out $500 both ways. If I keep the Explorer II for 10 years, I can probably sell for the same price I bought it. If I keep the Omega for 10 years, can probably sell for the same price as well? Maybe, maybe not. But, probably can since a discontinued model. So in some ways the same value. Where the Rolex has an advantage, is that it is easier to resell.

Now in terms of the inner movement, I would say they are equal. In terms of the bracelet and clasp design, I would say Omega is better. Even if you think Rolex is better, is it $2500 better. We are paying for name. Now, me> i like that name, as it brings recognistion, history, sense of acheivement, and a tradition.

But, if you took an uninformed person, took the brand names off both watches and put them side by side, I think the Omega would come out ahead. Especially when the Sub was priced at $2000 more than the PO.

I'll leave Omega for the uniformed ... :chuckle: :chuckle:

Hey,Chad,didnt know you had a white Explorer II ... !! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Thats why you have been talking about the good pricing on the used ones in the East.. :agree:

[leopardprey]

Have both the White and Black Exp IIs. Likethem both, but after also having owned Omega, do have to be honest and think Omegas are better deals for the money and more Tool Watch, (better lum, etc..)

If I had to choose between my White and Black Exp IIs, would be very hard pressed, but would probably go with the Black due to better visibility in low light conditions. The white Exp II is very classy though and is my Sport and DRESS watch!

Buying today, a White Omega GMT. (sad part is this watch as I stated is $2500 less than my Exp II., but fits better on the wrist and has much better lum and an anti-reflective crystal). Will then get a manaul wind Omega Speedmaster with see through back, to compliment.

[Blue Bull]

Have both the White and Black Exp IIs. Likethem both, but after also having owned Omega, do have to be honest and think Omegas are better deals for the money and more Tool Watch, (better lum, etc..)

If I had to choose between my White and Black Exp IIs, would be very hard pressed, but would probably go with the Black due to better visibility in low light conditions. The white Exp II is very classy though and is my Sport and DRESS watch!

Buying today, a White Omega GMT. (sad part is this watch as I stated is $2500 less than my Exp II., but fits better on the wrist and has much better lum and an anti-reflective crystal). Will then get a manaul wind Omega Speedmaster with see through back, to compliment.

White dial ... sporty,dressy classy !! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[ohlins]

before i bought my first rolex watch, i had fiddled with the idea of buying an omega watch, specifically the omega speedmaster.....

as i learn that little bit more about watches, i decided that i wanted a rolex watch....it was not about the movement, bracelet or resale blah blah blah.....it was down to my fundamental need for i love the look of the explorer 2 in white dial....as simple as that......and i bought the explorer 2.......

at that point in time, i had zero knowledge of SEL, no-hole case, triplock/twinlock .......and all those WIS stuff....

today i own more than a couple of rolex watches ....and still no omega.....why is that so? not bcos they are not good value or have bad resale or whatever.....i just do not like their designs/models/looks ......

and if u wanna talk about value for money.....i think hamilton, ball and sinn watches are way better value than omega...........there could be many subjective criteria for each one of us.......to me, omega has no appeal bcos their watches dun look good.........

if you think omega is better value....then go ahead and buy more......i am not going to stop you.....likewise if anyone else wishes to buy a lange, it's his choice.......

[leopardprey]

If it is only the look you are after, then why not buy an Ivicta copy?

Lets all be honest, it is not so much the look, as it is the Rolex Logo. Knowing that you have an expensive watch that is known by others on your wrist.

Most of the world does not know about Omega or other watches as much as they know about Rolex, and recognize the name as first rate.

But in honesty, after having owned both Omega and Rolex, I do think Omega in many ways makes a better watch, especially for the money.

Now, if it is all about looks and the Rolex appeals to you then that is the one you should get. I do like the classic old style looks of some of the Rolex watches. Don't care much for the Blue Omegas in the looks department (same as I personally don't favor the TT blue Sub), or James Bond 007 editions which I think is a bit tacky. But, I do like the classic vintage look of their POs and Speedmaster professionals. Their SMP and GMTs are also very good looking as well. I can say, I used to get actually more compliements on my old Omega SMP than I did on any of my Roelxes.

Now the watch I have got the most compliments on- and have only owned it a short time -and I think has one of the best looking dials I have seen, is the Ulysse Nardin Maxi Marine Diver that I own. But that again cost around the same as a Rolex Sub. But it had one of the best Bezels, great Lum, and the best finished case I have come across.

[Arturo]

I have Omega SMP, Rolex GMT ll and Rolex LV. Modest collection. All great watches, but when I look at the Rolex, I see just a bit higher quality. I do not like the ungraspable bezel of the Omega. I do like its lume and love the bracelet. But I gotta say, I am more mezmerized by the Rolexes than the Omega these days, but indeed those wavy black lines on the SMP are also seductive. Basically both great watches. Traveling with Omega may be wiser as you will be less likely a target of lobotomized cretins who will take your life for a nice watch for their crack habit.

[ohlins]

If it is only the look you are after, then why not buy an Ivicta copy?

Lets all be honest, it is not so much the look, as it is the Rolex Logo. Knowing that you have an expensive watch that is known by others on your wrist.

Most of the world does not know about Omega or other watches as much as they know about Rolex, and recognize the name as first rate.

But in honesty, after having owned both Omega and Rolex, I do think Omega in many ways makes a better watch, especially for the money.

Now, if it is all about looks and the Rolex appeals to you then that is the one you should get. I do like the classic old style looks of some of the Rolex watches. Don't care much for the Blue Omegas in the looks department (same as I personally don't favor the TT blue Sub), or James Bond 007 editions which I think is a bit tacky. But, I do like the classic vintage look of their POs and Speedmaster professionals. Their SMP and GMTs are also very good looking as well. I can say, I used to get actually more compliements on my old Omega SMP than I did on any of my Roelxes.

Now the watch I have got the most compliments on- and have only owned it a short time -and I think has one of the best looking dials I have seen, is the Ulysse Nardin Maxi Marine Diver that I own. But that again cost around the same as a Rolex Sub. But it had one of the best Bezels, great Lum, and the best finished case I have come across.

gosh....dun mean it as an insult to invicta but no thanks...........

its your problem if you think its about the rolex crown or logo.....i stated clearly it's about the looks in plain english.....and i did precisely that many times more......i.e. i bought a few more rolex watches......and i still own all of them....

i dun need compliments from others to vindicate my choice of watches....the most important is that i bought it for my pleasure....and i think you bought your omega watches bcos u like them sufficiently to warrant a purchase....

[leopardprey]

I was not insulting your view, but I am just saying that if our Rolex watches said something other than Rolex on the watches, would we be willing to pay $5000 for the watch? Or do many of us not want to admit, that there are actually much better watches out there than our Rolex watches at a fraction of the price, and that we really just bought the watch for the Name and the looks and the recognition it gets from others. I know that here in Asia, watches are a real status symbol, it is all about recognition.

Arturo, I agree that the SMP bezel is harder to grasp than the Sub. But the PO seems similiar to the Sub (and my UN MMD or a GP SeaHawk is better than both the PO or Sub)

But as to the original question this post asked, as a comparison between the PO and the Sub, I would have to say the Omega PO is overall a better watch and also cost about $2000 less. (BTW, I currently own a Rolex Sub and do not own my Omega SMP anymore as I gave it to my brother. But I base this on my experience wearing both in some pretty bad environments and also on close examination of the new PO) Now, why am I keeping my Sub? I like the name, history, and tradition of the Sub. But it leaves a lot to be desired (poor lum, no non reflective coating, small minute hand, not the best bracelet and clasp).


And if buying a watch has nothing to do with it's functions, tool watch capabilities, brand name recognition, etc. but only for looks and fashion, then there are a lot of really good looking watches out there that costing less than $500. So why do we pay $5000 for a watch? THe name.

[idoitsavant]

Hi folks,

I agree with a lot of things mentioned by Chad and Ohlins.

I owned a PO before and it was a pre-owned piece. So I sold it off at very close to the price I bought and threw in a couple of grands to buy the Pepsi GMT.

The PO is really value for money. The accuracy was spot on. Differed from my casio G shock by a mere 4s per week. Nice bracelet and clasp. Definitely beats the GMT hands down. However the size was really a tad larger then what I want my watch to be. And I kept knocking it onto furniture or something. Then I got persuaded into Rolex by a good friend of mine.

Without regrets, I sold off the PO and get the Pepsi. I loved it. But it screwed up on me and stopped on my wrist a couple of times, so much so that I sent the damn thing back to RSC. Now it is running at 4s/day (not week).

Both are meant for different things. Which is better? God knows. But The PO is definitely value for money be it pre-owned or not.

My point is if we are getting a mechanical watch and would potentially want to keep it forever (heirloom or other reasons), it doesn't make sense to spend 300-400 on average for 5 years just to service a 1 grand watch. We are getting a Rolex so that we are well assured of the top notch service that will be made available to us or our children in our life time (or theirs) to ensure the longevity of the watch (30 years of spare parts etc...).

Besides that, the NAME of cos! We all love it for various reasons. I associate that with quality only to be let down by my own experience. As of now, I am thinking of flipping my new GMT to get a pre-own Explorer 1 which I think has got a more robust movement (correct me if I am wrong).

One final point. It always tickles me when some of the forum folks say that Sub/GMT/Explorer is a good tool watch blah blah blah.. I agree some do use the functions and swear by it. But as far as durability and functions are concerned, absolutely NOTHING beats the CASIO PROTREK or G Shock.

Come on guys, some of the Protrek models can SYNC with the atomic clock over the air and gives very accurate time. Can a mechanical watch do that? You can ditch a G Shock from the 4th floor and it probably only picks up some scratches (I had done that before just to test if the G Shock is BS or not). No Omegas and Rolexes can take that unscathed. A Protrek has a compass, stop watch, barometer, altimeter, alarm, dual time zone, illum and water proof to a depth most people don't dive to and uses a rubber strap that don't give you problems in summer for the expanding wrist all for a nifty price tag of USD 400.

And we spend 10 times that amount just for the five letters across the gorgeous looking dials. It is really an emotional thing. No doubts about it.

Cheers.

[ohlins]

pls refer to the next post....

[ohlins]

I was not insulting your view, but I am just saying that if our Rolex watches said something other than Rolex on the watches, would we be willing to pay $5000 for the watch? Or do many of us not want to admit, that there are actually much better watches out there than our Rolex watches at a fraction of the price, and that we really just bought the watch for the Name and the looks and the recognition it gets from others. I know that here in Asia, watches are a real status symbol, it is all about recognition.

Arturo, I agree that the SMP bezel is harder to grasp than the Sub. But the PO seems similiar to the Sub (and my UN MMD or a GP SeaHawk is better than both the PO or Sub)

But as to the original question this post asked, as a comparison between the PO and the Sub, I would have to say the Omega PO is overall a better watch and also cost about $2000 less. (BTW, I currently own a Rolex Sub and do not own my Omega SMP anymore as I gave it to my brother. But I base this on my experience wearing both in some pretty bad environments and also on close examination of the new PO) Now, why am I keeping my Sub? I like the name, history, and tradition of the Sub. But it leaves a lot to be desired (poor lum, no non reflective coating, small minute hand, not the best bracelet and clasp).


And if buying a watch has nothing to do with it's functions, tool watch capabilities, brand name recognition, etc. but only for looks and fashion, then there are a lot of really good looking watches out there that costing less than $500. So why do we pay $5000 for a watch? THe name.

it's ok u didnt insult my view......and i have nothing against invicta.....i dun like them that's all

what u asked was a pointless hypothetical question cos there is nothing from another brand/manufacture that looks identical to a rolex watch ...........

pls dun generalise asia and asians cos there are people from other countries or continents that look upon rolex and luxury watches as status symbols........do u have any statistics to back your claim about asia...??

i readily admit and acknowledge that i find rolex watches to be worthy of the prices i paid for them.....every dollar and cent .....this is my personal view and i dun bother about the recognition from others....i dun even care if other ppl recognise my watch......

i will pay top dollars for the things i like.....as simple as that

you have your reasons for thinking that the omega po is better value than the sub......and i have my reasons for thinking that the sub is a better watch than the omega po.......i may not own the po but i have handled the watch and took many a close look ......

features that u think are good cut no ice with me.....i dun like AR coatings....

and i think the rolex lume is adequate.....come on i bought a watch not a mag-lite......i dun need my watch to illuminate the streets.....

small seconds hand on a rolex??? i dun get it at all.......how big do you want it to be......

i find the oysterlock bracelet to be a masterful design of pure brilliance.....its light and comfortable to wear, looks wonderful, easily sized with the 5 adjustment holes....uses screw for the links.....

so name me those $500 watches that u think look so beautiful ....i would love to see your choices.....

[ADISMO]

Rolex means never having to say your sorry. Rolex means never having to say anything. I dont know what other slogans I can come up with today, but the principle is the same. Quality, tradition, clean understated but effectively brilliant design, and the almost universal recognition of these attributes by others are just some of the reasons I went with Rolex as my first watch.

As someone who mired in the world of "replicas" for a while, I found that my Rorexes (fakes do come from TW and CN) gave me more satisfaction but didn't invite the question a fake Panerai would. The Pam felt blingy and sporty but was big and bulky and nearly unwearable with dress shirts. The blue TT and pepsi fakes I had never failed to impress ME.

I think thats what I'm trying to say. If you need for people to be impressed by bling, get an Orange PO. I like the shiny dial, the AR, the more lume, bigger size but ultimately those are the same reasons I would hate it when it stops being a watch and starts to be a conversation piece. I'd go further and say if you wanted a conversation piece, get the better values like Hamilton or Sinn.

But like everyone says, get the watch you cant live without.

[leopardprey]

do u have any statistics to back your claim about asia...??
Look at the number of swiss luxury watches sold per capita in Asian countries compared to non-Asian countries for one. Observe how gold and diamond wathces for men, about 10x more popular with men than in the west. I have had several Asian ADs in KL, PP, BKK tell me the same thing I have observed, that watches are more status oriented in the Far East than in the western world. This is comming from Asian ADs and watch collectors, not just my observations. Not saying it is good or bad (Is a very good thing for the luxury swiss watch market), just a fact.

Meant to print Small Minute hand not small second hand. No one is disputing that Rolex is not a good watch, all I am saying is in terms of a Mechanical Reliable tool watch, IMHO the Omega PO is not only a better deal price wise but better in the features. Maybe you do not need the lum for example, but the Sub is marketed as a dive watch. If you have eer gone diving then you will know that a larger minute hand and better lum is needed. Ever go night diving? Or been on a military operation and have to check the time at 0300 in the morning?

The AR coating also helps keep glare off the watch and also does not show fingerprints and smudges all the time like on the sub when you use the bezel frequently.

AS for watches that look great for under $500, check out the line from Victorinix Swiss Army or Sieko, for example.

I think you are taking my post a little too serious and offensive, all I am stating is IMHO the PO is a better watch than the Omega. And if the Sub is evena little better is it over $2000 better?

Of course I think many that say the PO is too heavy are using the Giant size 45.5mm Sub for comparison, not the 42mm.

Now in terms of servicing, well with the Co-Axial, service intervals are much longer than the Rolex and also Omega charges about half for servicing than Rolex.

[roadcarver]

IMHO, both watches are good. I've owned a PO 42.5mm and currently own an SD. Only sold the PO cause it was the last watch purchased and I had to sell it to meet other financial obligations.

3135 movement is bullet proof
Coaxial movement is bullet proof + longer service intervals and less wear

Rolex is very popular due to an excellent marketing machine, and honestly not the end all and be all of watches.

Omega bracelets are great, very comfy no sharp edges. Rolex oysters and cases tend to have some sharp edge to them. Downside with the bond bracelet is that it has no micro adjustment.

AR I think is an awesome feature but overtime can wear off and can readily show smudges. It would be easier to see the time without much glare. Also, PO has no cyclops which makes the overall appearance a bit busier.

In the end its just a matter of preference.

[leopardprey]

Idiotsavant, Yeah that G Shock is one strong watch! I used to take mine and throw it full force against a wall to show others how tough it was! Wore one for several years thorugh some very tough military training.

Of course actually put an Omega SMP through some of the same rough training (minus throwing it at walls to impress friends! LOL) and it never skipped a beat!

But, I do like wearing a fine swiss (omega, Rolex, UN, etc...) mechanical watch instead now for other reaons (history, old school, tradition, prestige, like the fine working of the inner mechanical movements, etc...)


AR I think is an awesome feature but overtime can wear off and can readily show smudges. It would be easier to see the time without much glare. Also, PO has no cyclops which makes the overall appearance a bit busier.
Good post BTW Roadcarver, and I hear what you are saying about the potential for the AR to wear off, but in three years of very hard use with the OMega SMP never had an issue, and the AR benifit was really great! No fingerprints, smudges, easier to read the dail etc.. Think the benefits of AR far out ways any negatives and much prefer to non-AR coated. One fothe first things I noticed when I switched to a Rolex, was how I was constantly having to clean the crystal compared to the Omega.

I found the lack of micro-adjustement to never be an issue with the Omega, since they come with a half link, where as the Rolex has only full links but each micro adjustment is essentially a half link so about the same.

In the end its just a matter of preference.

That is what is really comes down to and if you do not mind spending the extra $2000 for your preference to have a Rolex. But, I still can not say that the Rolex is $2000 better watch. The extra $2000 is paying for the Brand Name recognition.

[ohlins]

serious i am....but not offensive.....:0

i think we can agree to disagree.........:)

as to the sales of luxury watches in asia.....i think that's a fact but is too simplistic to state that ppl here buy watches for the sake of owning a status symbol.....does sales figures equate to the need to have a status symbol, i dun think so.........there could be just more watch connoisseurs here....i dun try to dwell into why others buy luxury watches cos there is no way to tell....

all medically fit male singaporeans go thru compulsory military service and i have my fair share of ops and exercises in the day and night........i dun have a problem with the lume......

my pam has AR coating and my rolex watches have no AR coating....makes no difference to me.....

yeah in fact i think the rolex sub is worth the difference over an omega PO.....i walk the talk cos i own an LV .....i could buy almost 2 POs for the price but i did not....

i am not sure about omega service charges but rsc singapore charges about $400 for a service..........seems reasonable to me.....

[leopardprey]

Did you wear your Sub during military operations? I have worn my Sub and Omega both of Military operations, and definatley foudn the the Sub lacking in that regard for lum. But, that being said, many of my friends wore Rolexs as well and never complained. One thing good about the LV is the larger minute hand, a very good improvement.

Well, disagree, still can not see the Sub, even though I have one being worth twice a PO, except for the name Rolex. A Rolex is like gold in a way, an expensive commodity.

Now, don't get me going on Panerais here in Asia! :rofl: Too big of watches and has become all the fad. Way overpriced IMHO!

Now personnally I think for the same price as a Rolex, there are better finished, worked, and tool watch features found IN the following dive watches than a Sub (they are jUSt not recognized like a Rolex, which IMO makes them mORe rare and unique): GP Seahawk, UN Marine Divers, Glashutte Sports Evol. Diver, Blancpain Fifty Fathoms (100 hour power reserve!)

[ohlins]

i have seen the GP seahawk and GO sports evo up close....while i recognise that they are nice watches.....i rather stay with my rolex

i have handled the UN maxi marine diver a few times......they are good and i think they are nice.....there are many satisfied owners of the marine diver but i wont be one........almost bought one though.....

no experience with blancpain cos no interest.....

i think you shd sell your sub if you find it to be such a "low quality" product....

[amanda]

Interesting thread... hows the saying go 'opinions are like a-holes everyone has one' :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: to state the obvious alot of what has been discussed is merely personal preference/opinion. Everyone here is a WIS and sees the merets of owning a fine mechanical timepiece.... Rolex is the master of marketing and with that comes a stigma associated to the brand... I personally dont like that stigma but like a few of the watches! :thumbsup:

I'd certainly say that in Hong Kong owning a Rolex is making a statement, I've never seen so many Rolexs in the wild... everyone wears them.. young, old.. I saw a lady wearing a SS Daytona that looked like she couldnt afford to buy herself new clothes.. that was how she was dressed (merely speculation on my part). Everyone I've spoken to about it back in Australia all said the same thing... in HK owning a rolex is a status symbol. Makes sense to me.

I dont think I'd personally even compare a PO to a Sub... I dont dive so the 'tool' aspect means nothing to me, both watches are totally different in appearance to me, both totally different manufacturers - when choosing a new watch I might like 3 totally different and unrelated watches ie a 14060, a Seamaster GMT or a Speedy Pro and choose one from say those models.. I dont say ' i want a diver' or ' I want a GMT' thats just not me.

Anyone else share that view?

[ADISMO]

in Hong Kong owning a Rolex is making a statement, I've never seen so many Rolexs in the wild... everyone wears them..

see any street vendors selling these Rorexes?

[amanda]

see any street vendors selling these Rorexes?

No I never saw anyone selling fakes. I was approached on Nathan Rd by those men asking if I wanted handbag or a Rolex and did I want to follow them - ahh no thanks!

I was referring to people wearing Rolex watches. Mainly on the train. And I never said 'rorex' you have implied I meant fakes, I never saw fakes.... these were the real deal and adorning the wrists of people on their way to work every day. If you've been to HK you'll know that there is pretty much a Rolex AD on every corner... fakes have been cleaned up significantly in HK. You have to know where to look to get fake Rolex.

[idoitsavant]

Really? I mean when I was there just months back, I was approached by folks selling fakes. They are all over Nathan, Temple and Women Streets. Cool.

[leopardprey]

Amanda, from one who used to live in HK, agree very much with your statements.

Ohlins, I never said the Sub was a low quality product or wish to get rid of my sub. The Sub is a great watch. But being objective, I can not say it is $2000 better than the Omegas, other than for the name and reputation.

Now, if one likes a Rolex, as I do for various reasons, or the Rolex just smiles at them and they like having it on their wrist and they don't care about the cost, then buy one and wear it with pride. That is a personal preference.

But, this post was which was a better watch and/or value. Even though I own several Rolex watches (and I love them on my wrist), I would have to say the Omega is better overall, if I look at it objectively.

So, here I go again. Lets put the Sub and the PO side by side. And forget that one says Omega on the Dial and the other says Rolex. Forget that one cost $2000 more.

Movement: I would say the PO wins by a small margin. 3135 Rolex movement is a great movement. But, PO has modified ETA with the Co-Axial. More time between service intervals, uses less lubrication, and also the rotar is ball bearing based instead of old pinion style like Rolex.

Water resistance: Sub is 300 meters, PO is 600 meters. So PO wins.

Bracelet: Bracelet is more engineered on the PO, fits better against the skin, edges more finished and rounded off and clasp is flush with bracelet. So PO wins. Sub bracelet is still a good bracelet and I like the links, but PO still wins.

Case: PO wins. Better finished and rounded off. Nice engraving on back side. Sub leaves unfinished rough edges on sides of case and lugs.

Readability of dial: PO wins. PO has larger hands and also much better lulmination.

Price: PO wins. $3000 for PO. $5000 for Sub. (resale value and future worth, well that is very subjective. It is easier to resell a Sub, so the Sub wins in terms of resell value. But, value wise will probably loose about the same amount of money when sell both. Also, for value you have to figure in with the PO, you can take the $2000 you saved and invest (like in a CD I have which pays 5.1% apr interest compounded monthly).

Crystal: PO wins. Domed crystal, anti-reflective coating. Sub still has nice crystal. Sub has Cyclops, PO does not. That is a matter of preference. I like the Cyclops and no cyclops both.

Crown and Crown guards: Both come out equal in my opinion.

Helium Escape valve: Will that is subjective. Do not really need, and would be better in that regards if you were comparing the SD to the PO. Well, the Sub does not have one. Again that feature is more of a preferecnce and IMO not a feature that is really needed unless one does commercial diving.


Now, I could also apply many of the above points to the OMega SMP GMT compared to the Rolex GMT and it would be the same. (OMega GMT 300 meters, Rolex GMT 100 meters, etc...). I have several Rolex dual time watchs (plan on selling one) and getting ready to buy an Omega Discontinued White GMT.

Of course I may be getting heavlily influenced, since I am starting to date one of the Omega Sales reps! :rofl: :rofl: And yes, she is very cute! (actually she really prefers Longine watches and she like Omega Constellation series, and she likes Rolex watches as well. But, she is one who told me that watch buying for Cambodians is all about Status, and it is very hard to sell SS sport models here, as everyone wants a gold and/or diamond watch to show off)

[leopardprey]

Posted by Amanda:

I might like 3 totally different and unrelated watches ie a 14060, a Seamaster GMT or a Speedy Pro

Now that would be an ideal Tool watch collection at good value, historical significance, and very reliable!

If I had to start all over again, what you quote above is what I would go with! A agrat 3 watch collection for around $8500! And covers all your needs. A plain simple movement historical 300 meter Rolex dive watch, a dual time watch that is also 300 meters rated, and a very strong reliable and historical manual winding Chronograph. I like your thinking Amanda!

[leopardprey]

Well, the fake selling of Rolex in Hong Kong has become more discreet. You now are approached by some Pakistani refuge who asks if you want to buy a copy rolex. If you express interest he takes you to the back of some tailor shop or something like that and then out comes the fake catolog and the fake models.

Used to be you would see the fakes lined up right out there on the street. You still see that in BKK and Phnom Penh.

[ohlins]

i dun even need to consider so many things....

PO vs rolex sub.....

rolex sub is beautiful...the other is not....rolex wins.....

but since u listed the criteria and your reasons.....i dun see what i shd not engage u on that....

pls note that the co-axial is the escapement.....yes it does need less lubrication but that is only for the escapement......pls dun think that the coaxial is an entire movement......

i dun see any demerit of a jewelled rotor vs one that is on ball bearings......

wr......that is only a numbers game to me......so is a sinn u1 (wr 1000m) a better watch? or is the bell & ross hydromax ...rated to 11100 m the best ..??......doesnt matter to me whether its 300m or 600m or 1000m......

bracelet......i have previously said what i think of the oyster bracelet.....and i think it's superior both in comfort and looks

i find there is nothing wrong with the oyster case......i like the sharp edges and it doesnt even bother me when its on my wrist.......

readability of dial.....my eyesight is good enough to read the sub dial adequately.......

price of cos the po wins since it is cheaper......but i am not out to buy a cheap watch....

HEV......no use.....dun do saturation diving.....anyone here does...??

given all your comments......i really cant understand why do u own a rolex watch cos it gives you so many demerits......

u shd walk the talk and own solely omega watches....u could have save many thousands of dollars....

[leopardprey]

Ohlins, your taking this personal. I know many of us get upset when we see watches that are sometimes better and end up costing less. But, it does not bother me. I bought my Rolex watches cause I like them, like the history, tradition, looks etc.. Have no desire to part with all my collection, but if you compare the PO and the Sub objectively and look at the price as well, then I still believe the PO wins. But, you can have your opinion.

BTW, I would hardly call a $3000 watch a cheap watch, unless we are going after that status quo thing again.

Yes, you are right the Co-axial is the escapement, but that is a major critical part of the movement.

For example on the sharp edges, Most of the time does not bother me either, but it just shows that Omega took a little more time in the finishing department to insure there would be no sharp edges. That is one of the first things when non-WIS friends I had mentioned when I showed them both my SMP and the Rolex.

readability of dial.....my eyesight is good enough to read the sub dial adequately....... Take off your glasses (if you use them) and compare reading both dials at 0300 in the morning, when they were last exposed to light at 1000 hrs. Or compare reading both dials on a night dive. (yes, I used to dive quite frequently at night).

Again, not saying the Rolex is not a good watch, just IMHO, if it was not for the Brand Status name Rolex on the dial, can not see it being worth $2000 more. Now, I don't mind paying $2000 more for the status/history. But, $ to $, the Omega is a better buy.

One thing about the Sub bracelet, which I do like, but still think the Omega bracelet is way better. Is that there have been cases of the clasp opening, since it sticks out and is not flush of getting caught on things. Has never happended to me, but can see it as a liability. Did get caught up on a shirt one of my friends when he was wresteling down a Hagi.

Will not get into long discussing on jeweled pinion movement vs ball bearing, that has been discussed many times on this forum, with many Rolex Forum members before expressing that the ball bearings was better and wishing Rolex would update.

Agree that the HE has not use to me and the deepest I have ever dove is around 60 meters. But there are several forum members who do Saturation diving for a living, so they may be interested in that feature.

Again, if you like the Sub more and like it in the looks and recognition, pride, status, history, etc.. and the price is no big deal, then get a Sub. But, as this post or a friend ask me which one to get, which is a better tool watch, I would say get the Omega.

I am glad y ou enjoy your Sub and enjoy the pride it gives you wearing it. Jsut as I enjoy my Sub. Wear it and abuse it as a watch should be!

[ohlins]

not upset but just have to make a stand when "subjectively better" is being touted as the "absolute truth"......and i think u dun understand whether i was upset or not....

[C.J.]

not upset but just have to make a stand when "subjectively better" is being touted as the "absolute truth"......and i think u dun understand whether i was upset or not....

You seemed a little upset. What's better for one, certainly may not be for all. That why were here though, to share our thoughts and feelings and get to see things from the perspective of others :cheers:

[leopardprey]

Not stating absolute truths, just comparing the facts and features about both watches and giving my opinions.

If I did upset you in any way, I apologize, as just discussing a purely mechanical peice of machinery, nothing really important in the grand scheme of life. It is just a watch.

Stating the Sub is beautiful and the other is not, well that is not really comparing the facts but a opinion.

I think both the Sub and PO are good looking watchs. The domed crystal on the PO gives a very nice look. Don't personally care for the Orange bezel versions, though a freind has one and looks nice on him. But, do like the 6, 9, 12 Orange numbers. Looks better than how Rolex decided to use the Orange highlights on the new Milgaus (a little overkill, but maybe will look really sharp when seen in the flesh).

Your Sub (and my Sub as well : ) ) is a fine watch. But, IMHO the Omega PO is a better buy with more tool oreinted watch features.

[amanda]

Well, the fake selling of Rolex in Hong Kong has become more discreet. You now are approached by some Pakistani refuge who asks if you want to buy a copy rolex. If you express interest he takes you to the back of some tailor shop or something like that and then out comes the fake catolog and the fake models.

Used to be you would see the fakes lined up right out there on the street. You still see that in BKK and Phnom Penh.

Yeh if you go back a page, you'll see that I implied that is how one picks up a folex in HK :chuckle: I'm not following no dude into a dark alley in some strange country! :thumbsup:

As for the 3 ultimate tool watches.. yeh spose they are but you'd have to add a Panerai or 3 into the mix. I'd not get those 3 if was going to get another 3 watches it would be a Sub no-date and a Radiomir 210 or a 232 if I won lotto - I think.

I'll go wake up now.. from my dreams, a 232 is only that a dream :twit:

[ohlins]

no worries.....and u dun have to apologise....

[ADISMO]

leopard, each point you bring up is valid about the Omega, but the end total of all these doesnt add up to a "better buy" in someone elses eyes. its a lot of objective info for what still seems to be a subjective final opinion.

btw how did a rolex get caught on a haji? your friend took took it on deployment? thats what Timex are for. =)

[leopardprey]

A lot of people I worked with in Iraq, wore Rolex, Omega, Breitling, or Tag. Seems the thing to get while on R and R, is a really nice mechanical tool watch, and then wear it as it was designed, 24/7 in the environment you are working.

btw how did a rolex get caught on a haji?

Baggy man dress on Hagi, baggy overshirt on operator, Sub clasp sticks out a bit with edge easy to catch on things.

[morgman]

I have both. The PO is definitely more bang for the buck. If you try hard, you should be able to find an AD that can go $2500 on it. The sub is rarely discounted at $5175. That's over 2x the cost.

Both wear comfortably, but the PO bracelet is better IMO. It never catches hair and feels more quality. The PO also keeps slightly better time. I also find the PO easier to read at a quick glance. The hands are very reflective and crisp. I like the thick, domed crystal too. Very nice watch.

In general, I feel the PO is simply more modern looking. I do like the ultra glossy dial on the rolex better though. The PO can sometimes have an office/executive look to it, where I find the sub more classy.

If you made me choose between the two, I would pick the sub.

How are you all doing anyway? :cheers:

[morgman]

.....Besides that, the NAME of cos! We all love it for various reasons. I associate that with quality only to be let down by my own experience. As of now, I am thinking of flipping my new GMT to get a pre-own Explorer 1 which I think has got a more robust movement (correct me if I am wrong).
........

I would agree that it's more robust only because it has less parts. They are both based off the same base movement though, correct?

[JJ Irani]

It never catches hair and feels more quality. The PO also keeps slightly better time. I also find the PO easier to read at a quick glance. The hands are very reflective and crisp. I like the thick, domed crystal too. Very nice watch.

In general, I feel the PO is simply more modern looking. I do like the ultra glossy dial on the rolex better though. The PO can sometimes have an office/executive look to it, where I find the sub more classy.

If you made me choose between the two, I would pick the sub.

How are you all doing anyway? :cheers:

Hi Morgy,

Great to have you back. And I'm the one with all that hair on my arm....never had a problem of hair pulling with any bracelet - be it an Omega, Breitling, TAG or a Rolex.:chuckle:

[leopardprey]

A little known fact in the watch world is most watch manufacturers send their bracelets to JJ, for him to test on his wrist to se if they pull wrist hairs!! LOL

[leopardprey]

PO has a 3 year warranty
Sub has a 2 year warranty

So PO wins in that category.

Personally I think Rolex should see that and up their warranty to 4 years.

[JJ Irani]

Personally I think Rolex should see that and up their warranty to 4 years.

....make that FIVE!! :thumbsup:

[haakon59]

Some fascinating points for me to mull over and I especially appreciate the discussion since I have been so divided in my own sympathies. One day I think "Rolex", the next I think "Omega". As with so many things in life, it really winds up being personal preference. It's beginning to look like I am going to have to buy both. :thumbsup:

[leopardprey]

It really comes down to which watch you think looks better, feels better on the wrist or just plain like more. But, I think a lot of us pay the extra dollars not so much for better quality or looks, but more for the Rolex Brand name. So if you do compare the SMP/PO to a Sub, is the Sub really worth the extra $2000-$3000 more for jsut the brand name? I will be honest, my Omega SMP cost me only around $1800 yet was much nicer finsihed, fit better on the wrist, actually got more compliments, and the lum lasted all night long. One thing to about the Sub, is you see do many fakes and also so many wearing real ones, it kind of looses it's uniqueness.
Rolex has done a very good job with advertising, reputation, and marketing. YOu are brought up hearing about reaching the pinnacle of acheivement where you will have a a Rolex. But, truth be told there are better watches out there for the same price and watches of the same or better quality for lesser price. I will say, I think ROlex has the best Advertisements out there! They always spark adventure.

I know I have plugged this before, but I bought a Ulysse Nardin Maxi Marine Diver a month ago and it cost the same as a Sub, but the detail and craftsmanship is much higher and refined than the sub. I like the UN, cause I know it is a very small company (not owned by Swatch or a big conglamorate like ROlex) and some very fine individual fitting and quaility goes into the watch. Were the Rolex is mass produced by machines these days.

[ohlins]

you shd just speak for yourself and refrain from using words like "alot of us".......there is no way u can claim to speak for anyone else, if u wish to be taken seriously .....

rolex parts are made by machines but the final assembly is done by man.....pls stop spreading this half-truth

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i305/oohlins/DSC00318.jpg

[leopardprey]

Ohlins,

I can refer to "alot of us" since there have been a lot expressing the same on this forum, other forums, and in PMs to myself.

You get very defensive over your Rolex Sub, as if it is a Religion! :chuckle:

And yes, Rolex is mass produced and much mroe work by automated machines that by smaller companies like Ulysse Nardin and Glashutte Original, for example. Of course, Rolex still has to have some human element involved, no one is disputing that. But, Rolex produces close to around 800,000 watches a year. It is not just parts that are made by marchines, but other areas as well, such as finishing, polishing, and some assembly. Heck, the Rolex web site even shows videos of these procedures. Not saying it is good or bad, but just that Rolex is a mass produced watch.

[ohlins]

not defensive ......only if there is a need to clear the air.......

consumers can judge for themselves whether the rolex sub is worth the dollars over a PO or SMP......and from the way the sub is flying off the shelves compared to the PO/SMP, i think they have made their choices known.....

i know where u r coming from and if u r expressing your opinion, that's fine....i respect your right.....

[leopardprey]

well, all that being said about the PO, I would like to get a hold of a vintage 5512 or 5513!

A lot of it comes down to personal taste. The PO and Sub are both great watches that do the job, I just think the Sub is overpriced for what you get. But, that is the way it is with many Brand name products. Why do you think people will still buy a Coke instead of a generic supermarket coke (when that cole is the same and produced by Coca-cola for the supermarket). People like name brand status, and Rolex has done a tremendous job promoting their product and advertising in such a way that people are willing to spedn a couple extra thousand for that reputation and brand name. I have to admit, the name Rolex is partly what drives me to have a Rolex. But, at times I wish the Rolex Sub had many of the features the PO has, that makes the PO in many ways more user friendly and tool oreinted.

Now, Ohlins, that TT New Style GMT II you have is a solid peice of work! Bit pricey, but very nice! And the Explorer 1 you have is "the classic tool watch" (My father wears an Exp I as well).

[idoitsavant]

I am seriously comtemplating an Exp 1 for my Sports watch....

I have tried on the SMP as per your suggestion Chad, but evidently, it doesn't look good for the Mid Size and for the Full size version, it looked hugh on my wrist - which is just the case for my GMT.

Too bad the Exp 1 has got no bezel. I use the bezel to time my runs. Back to using the Casio G Shock!!

[padi56]

Now guys hope there is not any hostility getting into this thread,after all they are just watches.

[Blue Bull]

.... and to conclude this lengthy and elaborate discussion,you still have the choice between the Rolex and the Omega !!!

:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:

[leopardprey]

The Explorer 1 is a good watch, and you can find a used one at a very reasonable price. Two other options for you, a little more flashy might be mid size Yacht Master or a Turn-o-graph. But, they are also quite a bit more expensive.

I do miss having an Explorer 1 (gave mine to my Father). And if you are looking for a less expensive alternate, since you already have a Datejust, check out the Omega Seamaster (nothe dive watch but the regular SS utility watch -comes in 36mm and 38mm versions) or Railmasters. Both have the Co-Axial movements and see through backs and water resistance to 150meters.

Hear you on the bezel, I use my bezels everyday for timing runs and swims.

[roadcarver]

It's all fun and games until somebody looses a watch.
:chuckle:
Now guys hope there is not any hostility getting into this thread,after all they are just watches.

[amanda]

Is it just me or has the same thing been said about 5-6 times in this thread... reading through 4 pages is like Groundhog Day!

[dman]

Is it just me or has the same thing been said about 5-6 times in this thread... eading through 4 pages is like Groundhog Day!

LOL, I was thinking the same thing. :chuckle:

Like comparing something good vs. something else that is good. What ever your taste, good on ya. :thumbsup: