My Post#1- And It's Bad News

[XELOR]

UPDATE: 22 SEPT 07-------------A Full Refund Was Provided.

Hi Everyone:

Well I finally have something to post about...

The AD only crowd seems like a very smart group right about now.

I got scammed on a fake Rolex that was so real looking that Rolex USA, NYC technicians may have even missed it at first.

It started with an ebay Rolex seller with FANTASTIC FEEDBACK FOR SELLING NOTHING BUT ROLEX.

I sent a cashiers check and a non-Rolex in trade to the seller for a total value of around $2700 (a little high but I got to trade in a watch I didn't want anymore).

The watch I purchased was a 9 Million, TT DJ, MOD 16013 in too perfect condition (a clue I missed).

When the watch arrived I shipped it to ROLEX USA and they provided an estimate for routine service of around $500.

Rolex USA called back the next day after the original estimate to say basically only the movement is real.

When Rolex further checked the Head, Bracelet Etc.... fake.

So it's been five hours now (not days- there's still hope) and the seller hasn't returned my call.

As soon as the Rolex documentation arrives (indicating what they discovered) I will plaster the sellers name all over the place unless he agrees to an immediate refund.

This one hurts...try not to rub it in!

[Rockrolex]

Welcome to TRF, but it's a rough way to start your visit here.

Sorry you've had that experience. I guess the main word of advice in retrospect is never use anything but plastic to buy over the net unless you really know the seller and are comfortable with him/her.

Hope everything turns out well in the long run. Keep us posted on your progress.

[USMCsilver]

Would you mind cuting and pasting to the link of the watch that was won? Sounds like we need to be informed since many of us browse eBay.

Welcome, and I'm sorry to hear about your apparent loss. I about got scammed, but the great guys here helped me out and I managed not to lose three grand.

Guess there is always the chance that the seller got the watch on trade, or whatever, and assumed it was real due to the movement being real. However, if he won't return calls, that says a lot right there.

Again, sorry to hear about your loss, but at least now you're in good company and can possibly avoid fakes in the future!

[Welshwatchman]

If he is a genuine trader he will no doubt take the loss on the chin, refunding your cash and returning your watch. If not, post his Ebay username and plenty here will contact him to ask him to do the stand up thing.

A message to all the lurkers though. Get your advice questions posted in BEFORE you buy the watch. It will not guarantee you a safe purchase but you will get plenty of good advice (along with a tiny amount of useless advice).

[Blue Bull]

I hope this works out well for you ,in the end.:thumbsup:

At least you have now arrived at the right place,amongst true enthusiasts,where combined knowledge on Rolex,is to say the least ... scary !!

Look at the bright side of things ... after your first post,things can only get better.:cheers:

[JJ Irani]

Welcome to TRF. Sorry to hear about what happened....but then I've always been anti-ebay.

If you don't know the seller, NEVER do the deal....as simple as that!!

Hope you move on to better things and finally get a genuine Rolex.

Good luck - JJ :thumbsup:

[XELOR]

Prior to my first post on TRF I spent a few months just reading the posts. I learned both about Rolex and the decent nature of so many of the people here on TRF.

I'd want to know who this ebay seller is too...

I'm going to wait to see if he decides to do what is right first.

I will be very assertive once the documentation from Rolex USA arrives.

If (Big If) logic means anything, $2700 would seem well worth refunding vs poor word of mouth, legal issues etc...

I promise his feedback on ebay is disarmingly fantastic and the watches look great.

My guess is so many buyers never verify authenticity so the positive feedback ends up having little meaning.

[XELOR]

BTW JJ...

To clarify, I purchased one previous Rolex (completely unrelated to my original post about the fake) and had it appraised at Rolex USA in NY.

The Genuine Rolex Was Sold By: OldWorldJewelers/EWatchshow.

They advertise on TZ...nice people. The opposite of what I'm dealing with now.

[divmat]

And that is who ????????

[XELOR]

I'm waiting to see if and how the person/business responds so I can put the name out in a proper context.

Obviously, if they provide an immediate refund I'm going to report back to TRF one way and if they don't...

I'm also waiting for the paperwork from Rolex USA, who only just called me today (8/17/07) about the fake.

Ughhhh!!!

[Obsession]

I would do same mistake to buy a TT Blue Sub from Ebay with 3000-3500 USD but, I couldnt attempt to spend my money to a fake watch or no watch , I couldnt risk but EBAY is nice if you buy new ROLEX from known Titanium-Power Sellers there with highest feedbacks and everything, but in this case price is nearly AD price but still less.

[XELOR]

Update:

Seller contacted me and indicated that it wouldn't make sense for him to put a genuine movement (3035) in a fake 16013 body.

(Rolex indicated the movement was genuine but basically all else fake...band, case etc...fake).

Seller indicated I'd have to send him the 16013 back first and then he would return the trade in watch I applied as partial payment along with the amount of the cashiers check I sent him.

Problem is that Rolex still has the fake. I think they said they were sending it back, however.

How should I proceed?

Suggestions appreciated.

[Rockrolex]

Update:

Seller contacted me and indicated that it wouldn't make sense for him to put a genuine movement (3035) in a fake 16013 body.

(Rolex indicated the movement was genuine but basically all else fake...band, case etc...fake).

Seller indicated I'd have to send him the 16013 back first and then he would return the trade in watch I applied as partial payment along with the amount of the cashiers check I sent him.

Problem is that Rolex still has the fake. I think they said they were sending it back, however.

How should I proceed?

Suggestions appreciated.
Tell the seller that RUSA has the watch and is returning it to you. As soon as you receive it you will return it to the seller. Hopefully that will toll whatever time limit he might want to put on you.

[Interested Bystander]

Hey Exlor, even if all turns out well, I'd like to know who it is.

A lot of those Blingy looking Rolex on ebay look suspect.

Sorry to hear about this happening.

[Floridadogg]

Update:

Seller contacted me and indicated that it wouldn't make sense for him to put a genuine movement (3035) in a fake 16013 body.

(Rolex indicated the movement was genuine but basically all else fake...band, case etc...fake).

Seller indicated I'd have to send him the 16013 back first and then he would return the trade in watch I applied as partial payment along with the amount of the cashiers check I sent him.

Problem is that Rolex still has the fake. I think they said they were sending it back, however.

How should I proceed?

Suggestions appreciated.

A crook will say anything to save his sting that he executed upon you. It makes perfect sense for a crook to put a Rolex movement in a fake case if he can get someone to bite like you did. I'll bet somewhere there is a genuine case with a fake movement in it............this completes the "double dip". If the crook will refund to you, pursue this line of action. If not, all you can do is report him to fleabay, or sue him civally in his location.

[Downing]

*****

Seller indicated I'd have to send him the 16013 back first and then he would return the trade in watch I applied as partial payment along with the amount of the cashiers check I sent him.

*****

How should I proceed?

Suggestions appreciated.

So if I understand this correctly, if you do this then the seller will have both watches and all of your money?

I guess you don't have much choice but jeez, this is why I wouldn't buy anything of value on eBay.

I suppose it's too late now but is there available an escrow-type arrangement for eBay? In other words, a third party, holding both the payment and the watch, who would then verify the watch's authenticity before completing the transaction. I'm sure it would add to the cost of the watch but it seems to me it would be well worth it.

Good luck.

[jimcameron]

I would be amazed if Rolex USA returns any fake parts that they have in their possession. I would assume the movement might be returned, but a case, crown, dial, etc. that purports to be Rolex and is not, I will be suprised. Sorry for your misery, I hope things work out.

[Tools]

Welcome to TRF

Sorry to hear about your experience...hope all turns out well..

[XELOR]

Of course I'll update everybody at TRF...

[XELOR]

I'm curious if I get the watch back too.

The seller still has to figure out how to sell the remaining $50,000-$100,000 Rolex watches listed on Ebay. Not counting his non-ebay web site!

He has $15,000 watches listed and I suspect they get tricky to sell if word gets out that he refused a refund.


I would be amazed if Rolex USA returns any fake parts that they have in their possession. I would assume the movement might be returned, but a case, crown, dial, etc. that purports to be Rolex and is not, I will be suprised. Sorry for your misery, I hope things work out.

[alglez]

that sucks man I hope things work out for you

[sheldonsmith]

Keep us posted.... My worst fears about ebay coming true...

-Sheldon

[Gedanken]

Sorry to hear about your experience, Xelor.

Have you tried contacting eBay about this? The item obviously violates their rules - my understanding is that it was advertised as a 100% genuine Rolex, and you now have proof from Rolex that it's not the case, so you've got this seller dead to rights. IIRC, ebay offers up to $3000 protection for your purchases, so they may be able to help you out.

[jasonbellevue]

Sorry to hear about your bad experience, a similar thing happened to a friend of mine, but fortunately for her, she paid for her purchase using PayPal/Credit Card, and the whole purchase price was reimbursed by the issuing Visa credit card company. Later on, she received an update that the fraudulent seller got the fake Rolex back and was forced to refund the entire amount. I hope you will get a favorable outcome to your predicament.

[astcell]

I got ripped off real bad once online and called the Sheriff in the seller's town. Guess what, I was not the only one! Charges were brought.

For that amount of money I'd get on the next airplane out there.

[BiG JeEzY]

I'm very sorry to hear about the not so good news too Xelor. I hope you are able to work everything out. What bothers me is why people would remove the movement from the original case?

I mean, having aftermarket bezels, bracelets and dials are a different story and I understand that. I just don't understand why and how people move all those gears and jewels and transfer them into some other non-Rolex made watch case. Its kinda ridiculous to me when I think about it.

I was watching a TT 16233 DJ before on Ebay and even pondered bidding on it. After the item had been sold, the sellers account suddenly got deleted. After that, my trust with Ebay sellers just plummeted.

[Tombstone]

Xelor,
I am sorry about your loss I can not stand sleaze bay, they are dishonest and they do not have your rights in mind only their bottom line. I would consult an attorney have Rolex write a letter certifying that the watch is a fake and that due to copy right law violations the loss would be that of the sellers. Have your attorney press hard and I would see it though you may be able to sue for all the costs and making things correct. You may also face the issue of the seller claiming you switched out the parts and it was not his doing. Please keep us informed as I would like to see how this misfortunate situation is resolved.

[leopardprey]

Hope it all works out for you. I would go after this guy with a passion, if the money is not refunded immediately. I would contact local LE Personnel if refund does not happen. Good chance ROlex will keep the watch, as they usually confiscate all fake watches. You need to send the Seller the RSC documentation. Cahnces are if he gets the fake watch back, you he will try to sell it again. If you do ge the refund back, I would still post all over about this guy so he will not rip others off.

[padi56]

Sorry to hear about your experience, Xelor.

Have you tried contacting eBay about this? The item obviously violates their rules - my understanding is that it was advertised as a 100% genuine Rolex, and you now have proof from Rolex that it's not the case, so you've got this seller dead to rights. IIRC, ebay offers up to $3000 protection for your purchases, so they may be able to help you out.

Got to agree with James but still cannot understand a real movement in a fake TT case bracelet.Myself have seen a similar scam on solid gold watches.Where they move a genuine movement from a SS watch into a non genuine made gold case bracelet normally Italian made.Then put a ETA movement into the SS watch that has papers etc and sell that one as genuine too.

[alexcord]

Gutted for you, hope it all works out!!

[XELOR]

As soon as I get the RUSA paperwork I'll let you know if the seller makes good.

What I've read about a 10 to 1 ratio of fakes to real sure seems easy to believe.

Thank you all for listening to my tale of Ebay woe.

If anyone wants to give me one of these :dummy: I'll understand.

[leopardprey]

What I've read about a 10 to 1 ratio of fakes to real sure seems easy to believe.

It is like 20 to 1 in Bangkok!! And some of the fake I saw, unless you really knew Rolex Watches, would fool many. They have perfected the faking of Submariners.
Of course Bangkok is the capitol for fakes: Fake handbags, Fake clothing, and Fake women!

[jac67]

Hello and welcome.

Firstly, I would do NOTHING except keep civil and professional dialogue with the seller until watch is returned by Rolex (if returned), and all the necessary paperwork arrives.

No need to abuse seller, contact ebay, police etc. until he/she refuses to refund.

He may have been caught out too. Remember, Rolex had to double look at it as well. The seller would've simply opened it up, seen a genuine movement and sold it off.

If he refuses to refund OR gets nasty, then go for your life.

Being abusive just closes doors.

Hope all works out for you, and keep us posted. :cheers:


John.

[ozark1]

Hope you get the situation sorted out. I would have killed the deal when the seller wanted a check. PayPal, while not foolproof, offers some protection. Again...peace of mind has value in a Rolex deal...and I can't imagine what one would need to purchase, that can't be bought from a member of this board...jV

[cjj14u]

Hello and welcome.

Firstly, I would do NOTHING except keep civil and professional dialogue with the seller until watch is returned by Rolex (if returned), and all the necessary paperwork arrives.

No need to abuse seller, contact ebay, police etc. until he/she refuses to refund.

He may have been caught out too. Remember, Rolex had to double look at it as well. The seller would've simply opened it up, seen a genuine movement and sold it off.

If he refuses to refund OR gets nasty, then go for your life.

Being abusive just closes doors.

Hope all works out for you, and keep us posted. :cheers:


John.

I could not agree more. First of all I think everyone agrees that it just does not make much sense to put a genuine movement in a counterfeit case. Based upon the stellar feedback that this seller is said to have by the original poster, and the fact that he has so much more listed, I am willing to bet that he will make good EVEN if ONLY the movement and bracelet are returned by Rolex (see no reason why they would not return an aftermarket bracelet).
I do not think that he will risk a negative and report to fleabay over this IMHO and ruin future business. It DOES sound to me like the case fooled him as well.

[XELOR]

Words of wisdom John .. Thank you for that.

Also, thank you all for the welcome and support.

RUSA must have taken measurements on the entire watch.

If I didn't want absolute integrity I wouldn't have taken the chance to send the watch directly to them.

RUSA is very strict with authentication and they didn't miss... however they almost did.

Hello and welcome.

Firstly, I would do NOTHING except keep civil and professional dialogue with the seller until watch is returned by Rolex (if returned), and all the necessary paperwork arrives.

No need to abuse seller, contact ebay, police etc. until he/she refuses to refund.

He may have been caught out too.

Remember, Rolex had to double look at it as well.

The seller would've simply opened it up, seen a genuine movement and sold it off.

If he refuses to refund OR gets nasty, then go for your life.

Being abusive just closes doors.

Hope all works out for you, and keep us posted. :cheers:


John.

[Arturo]

The realistic problem with these comments about attorneys etc., is that the amount of money is not worth it for most attorneys to open a file. I know it costs me internally about 2K to just open a file and get started. $300 plus per hour is standard for any experienced attorney, and more in the specialties. The amount is less than most circuit court jurisdictions so "suing" makes little sense as most civil jurisdictions for law suits start at 10K. So you could, I suppose, if you are not able to work with the seller, file a small claim suit, and if he defaults get a judgment. Then good luck on collecting.

No, the best way to resolve this is as you are doing. Don't panic....don't attack him yet. Keep the lines of communication open, and see if Ebay has any internal remedies for you. Hopefully, the need to keep his business is more important that anything else to him, and he will get you your money. How far are you geographically from this dealer?

[Green Arrow]

Why not have the Seller send you your money and watch back after you send him a copy of your instructions to the Rolex Service Center to directly send the watch to its rightful owner the seller.

I wouldn't let a scammer have my money, my watch, and my evidence. You need one or the other to prove anything.

[XELOR]

How many Ebay Rolex are properly authenticated?

[SPACE-DWELLER]

Hi Xelor, and welcome to TRF (I see that this is not your first post anymore). I have been away for the most of the day and rushed here to TRF, since I am badly addicted to this fine (BEST!) Rolex forum.

Anyway:

Sorry to hear about that scumbag of eBay. I am not sure but I think eBay has a "Buyer Protection" programme that can give you money back (I think is is US 2,000?) if the "item was not as described", and definately he decribed it as a GENUINE Rolex, and it wasn't, was it?! You have PROOF from Rolex that is wasn't.

So let eBay engage! That is my advice to you!

Good luck! :thumbsup:

[SPACE-DWELLER]

Edit: I have just seen now that "Gedanken" writes that it is an US 3.000 buyer protection :cheers:

[XELOR]

UPDATE:

Rolex did send the watch back to me.

The official RUSA paperwork says:

"CASE & BRACELET ARE NOT OF ROLEX MANUFACTURE"

[Downing]

The way I see it, you have 3 options:

1. Keep the watch.
2. Send the watch back and hope for a refund.
3. See if he'll agree to a 3rd party escrow who will take both the watch and the refund and make the exchange.

Personally, I wouldn't do the first option. I'd do the third option if it's possible. If all else fails, I'd send the watch back and hope for the best. I don't remember how much cash you put down but I remember you also traded in a watch you didn't want anyway.

Worst case scenario, you don't get your cash and unwanted watch back and you no longer have the fake to remind you of this mess. As worst case scenarios go, that's not so bad assuming you still have your health, family and friends. Chalk it up to lesson-learned-the-hard-way and get on with your life. Start saving your money again and next time buy from an AD or otherwise trusted source.

Good luck.

[XELOR]

Yes...The watch is still just a "thing" I agree with the entire context of what you are saying.

I appreciate the help, too.

The way I see it, you have 3 options:

1. Keep the watch.
2. Send the watch back and hope for a refund.
3. See if he'll agree to a 3rd party escrow who will take both the watch and the refund and make the exchange.

Personally, I wouldn't do the first option. I'd do the third option if it's possible. If all else fails, I'd send the watch back and hope for the best. I don't remember how much cash you put down but I remember you also traded in a watch you didn't want anyway.

Worst case scenario, you don't get your cash and unwanted watch back and you no longer have the fake to remind you of this mess. As worst case scenarios go, that's not so bad assuming you still have your health, family and friends. Chalk it up to lesson-learned-the-hard-way and get on with your life. Start saving your money again and next time buy from an AD or otherwise trusted source.

Good luck.

[Arby]

Did you Fax a copy of the Rolex paperwork to the seller? That's all that's needed. Hold on to the watch until you get the money and your old watch back. I hope this works out for you but no matter what... after the final outcome I'd give that guy the worse feedback imaginable. Just so it doesn't happen to the next guy he tries to sell that bogus watch to. How much did Rolex charge you to check it out? I'd add that to the seller's cost. That sux big time :thumbsdow

[XELOR]

I think I'm going to send the watch back first because he indicates he will not issue a refund without the watch.

He has dozens of ROLEX on eBay and also on his web site.

I'd like to think I have leverage.

Also, I have the receipt from him (the ebay seller) with the serial and the Rolex documents with the same serial number.

RUSA indicating: "not of Rolex Manufacture" .

I have to gamble it's not worth the headache for him to keep the under $3000.

At least that's my current logic!

[cjj14u]

I think I'm going to send the watch back first because he indicates he will not issue a refund without the watch.

He has dozens of ROLEX on eBay and also on his web site.

I'd like to think I have leverage.

Also, I have the receipt from him (the ebay seller) with the serial and the Rolex documents with the same serial number.

RUSA indicating: "not of Rolex Manufacture" .

I have to gamble it's not worth the headache for him to keep the under $3000.

At least that's my current logic!

I think you are doing the correct thing. IF he has the ebay feedback that you state I'm sure he will live up to his end.
You really SHOULD let us know who this seller is (Ebay ID) so that your brethren on the board can be wary.

[XELOR]

Now that I have the RUSA supporting documents this is his information:

AMORRIS9999 on EBAY.

I assume there's nothing wrong with posting a business address:


WWW.FINDAWATCH.COM

7512 Dr. Phillips Blvd
Suite 50-260
Orlando, Florida 32189
(407) 709-8910

RUSA Document: 11025-3973 Dated 8/21/07:

Notes:

Case & Bracelet Are Not Of Rolex Manufacture
Return As Received

[Tripp11]

Not a hint of that company via business address or business name on BBB.

I would ask the seller to have a third party assist in the transfer or you're likely to be out the watch and your money.

[XELOR]

I am concerned.

At least the movement is real because Rolex actually gave me a quote on the service before catching the problems with the case and bracelet.

He even made it a point to mention he normally charges a restocking fee when I talked to him. :banghead:

(He is readily available by phone).

[Arby]

:lol::lol:

Restocking Fee on a Fake sold as authentic? That's Funny!!! I hope you told him what he could do with his restocking fee... :twit:

[XELOR]

Yes I Did.



He said "normally" charges a restocking fee but I still didn't appreciate the comment !

[mikey]

It is common practice to not send ANYONE cashier check, Money Gram or Bank Wire for an ebay auction. Its not covered by ebay policy or insurance. You should have done Paypal and you would have your money back ASAP.:banghead:

[USMCsilver]

Should we flood him with e-mails that threaten the end of his business? Guess we could if he doesn't make this 100% right!

[newtamparealestate]

Should we flood him with e-mails that threaten the end of his business? Guess we could if he doesn't make this 100% right!

Your jumping the gun. Dont ruin somones rep over somthing that really might not be his fault. He could have been taken just like the buyer was.

I make a living on eBay as well and to be honest, when somone is an asshole customer, I am just that much more likly to try to fix the problem for them.

He has been on ebay for 7 years, has over 300 feedback and only 1 negative ever. Thats a damn good reputation. Keep very good records of what you got, the papers from Rolex, reciepts for your check, etc and if he gives you any problems, you will have a case against him.

As far as being in this position, I did buy a rolex along time ago on ebay, had no issues. But the current 3 that I own were all bought at an AD, and I would never go another route again. Even if I do save 1000.00

To me its worth the excitment, and no worries of buying at an AD.

Anyway, good luck with getting your money back. I almost dont know if it was fair of you to put the info on here as of yet.

[USMCsilver]

You're(sic) jumping the gun.


No... I said if he didn't get it 100% right. Wouldn't want to screw someone over before he had a chance to right himself. :thumbsup:

[XELOR]

USMC... Your post cheered me up!!! :cheers:

I talked to the seller again and he more clearly promised a full refund.

It's nice to have you in reserve USMC!!! Thank You.

Also, this is a great opportunity for the seller if I end up reporting good things.

A full refund will support his contention the fake Rolex was an honest mistake.

Anyway, I hope I didn't bore anybody with all the posts I made about this "event".

I'm on stand by until I ship it back on Monday. (This post is on a Saturday.)

[USMCsilver]

USMC... Your post cheered me up!!! :cheers:

Glad to hear it, even more happy to hear that he sounds willing to correct his error (or blatent lie).

Just let us know when this is 100% over. I want to make sure that he's been true to his word all the way through this. :agree:

[XELOR]

Absolutely USMC.

In fact, even if I didn't think your post was the greatest, :comeandge I'd still feel obligated to update all the TRF members that took the time to read this thread and offer support.

Just let us know when this is 100% over. I want to make sure that he's been true to his word all the way through this. :agree:

[real deal]

I feel bad for you. You seem to be a nice person, maybe too nice?Sometimes it feels good to go into a AD and buy exactly what you thought you were buying. I would nail this guy all over the web, Good luck

[SobeSVT]

If the situation doesn't resolve 100% in your favor I think that we should go ahead with USMC's plan, I will be glad to chip in. If it does though I would be nice if you give the guy one hell of a good feedback.

I bough my first used Rolex yesterday on eBay. The vendor was a private owner with good reputation and he is sending me the watch with papers and its original box. After XELOR's experience I will check if the watch is authentic though.

[tomski12]

Now that I have the RUSA supporting documents this is his information:

AMORRIS9999 on EBAY.

I assume there's nothing wrong with posting a business address:


WWW.FINDAWATCH.COM

7512 Dr. Phillips Blvd
Suite 50-260
Orlando, Florida 32189
(407) 709-8910

RUSA Document: 11025-3973 Dated 8/21/07:

Notes:

Case & Bracelet Are Not Of Rolex Manufacture
Return As Received


That address is for a pretty upscale mall. However, the phone number is for a cell phone. I'd be curious, if this is an actual store or a virtual store. I'd hold off on going nuclear on the guy until you determine his actual response. If his response is anything other than a full refund, please post and there might be other (legal) options worth discussing.

[LouCan]

By then it will be to late Simon. Why chance it in the first place? It just doesn't make sense to me.

[XELOR]

Even RUSA initially missed the watch had non-Rolex parts.

I could still get the watch authenticated almost anywhere.

That's why I send my used purchases to Rolex directly.

I think most people just want to feel good about a great deal and don't care and/or want to know about the integrity of the watch.

So yes...my thread should be a real world example to TRF members.

Most buyers believe the used Rolex they buy is authentic.

After XELOR's experience I will check if the watch is authentic though.

[Destroy]

Hell I was doubtful about an AD purchase until I found this site and could tick off all the "authentic" boxes.

But anyway, I've got my fingers crossed for you Xelor.

[jac67]

It's good to hear that he is going to give you a full refund, however, I would get him to put this in writing via email etc. than merely by phone.

Then again, have you thought about flying to Florida to do the deal in person? I WOULD!

See, keep your cool and dialogue open and polite. :thumbsup:

Keep us posted.


John.

[SobeSVT]

By then it will be to late Simon. Why chance it in the first place? It just doesn't make sense to me.
To be totally honest and risking sounding naive . . . the idea never crossed my mind :thinking: The deal was closed last Friday, so all I can do is sit and wait and hope for the best.

This is the thread (http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=21399) with the description of watch . . .

[XELOR]

My Promised Update:

I rec'd a cashiers check today from eBay seller AMORRIS9999.

I will edit my first post (#1) to indicate the seller made good (when the check clears).

I developed an intense amount of insight.

I can only suggest that most people would never take the steps I did to authenticate a Rolex purchased on eBay.

It is hard to appreciate how virtually perfect a counterfeit Rolex watch part (s) can be.

Also, an eBay seller can give a refund for basically two reasons:

#1) They are of absolute integrity and made an honest mistake.
#2) They intentionally sell fakes and provide a refund the rare time they get caught.

(Point #2 above is intended as a general reference- not a specific reference to AMORRISS9999 or any other individual eBay seller.)

Thank You TRF For The Support- Special Attention To USMC!!! Your posts came at the perfect time. :cheers:

[JJ Irani]

My Promised Update:

I rec'd a cashiers check today from eBay seller AMORRIS9999.

I will edit my first post (#1) to indicate the seller made good (when the check clears).

I developed an intense amount of insight.

I can only suggest that most people would never take the steps I did to authenticate a Rolex purchased on eBay.

It is hard to appreciate how virtually perfect a counterfeit Rolex watch part (s) can be.

Also, an eBay seller can give a refund for basically two reasons:

#1) They are of absolute integrity and made an honest mistake.
#2) They intentionally sell fakes and provide a refund the rare time they get caught.

(Point #2 above is intended as a general reference- not a specific reference to AMORRISS9999 or any other individual eBay seller.)

Thank You TRF For The Support- Special Attention To USMC!!! Your posts came at the perfect time. :cheers:

And now that your story finally has a happy ending.....walk in through the hallowed portals of an Authorised Rolex Dealer, ogle some delicious cleavage and get yourself the REAL McCoy!! :thumbsup::rofl::rofl:

Good luck - JJ :cheers:

[XELOR]

Please See Authorized JJ Post Above. :lol::lol::lol:

At this point my goal is for only the delicious cleavage to bounce.

[roadcarver]

Make sure that the check cashes!

My Promised Update:

I rec'd a cashiers check today from eBay seller AMORRIS9999.

I will edit my first post (#1) to indicate the seller made good (when the check clears).

I developed an intense amount of insight.

I can only suggest that most people would never take the steps I did to authenticate a Rolex purchased on eBay.

It is hard to appreciate how virtually perfect a counterfeit Rolex watch part (s) can be.

Also, an eBay seller can give a refund for basically two reasons:

#1) They are of absolute integrity and made an honest mistake.
#2) They intentionally sell fakes and provide a refund the rare time they get caught.

(Point #2 above is intended as a general reference- not a specific reference to AMORRISS9999 or any other individual eBay seller.)

Thank You TRF For The Support- Special Attention To USMC!!! Your posts came at the perfect time. :cheers:

[XELOR]

"Make sure that the check cashes!"

THIS :joy:


or: :crying:

[txrob779]

I think it's pretty rare to get a genuine movement and fake parts. Usually it's the other way around. I have read where people use gen cases, crowns, bracelets, bezels and crystals and use ETA movenemt, Tudor hands and replica dials and fake people out. To get a fake with genuine movement is indeed strange. There are some serious replicators out there and again, I have bought several pre-owned Rolex's but from local dealers who authenticate the timepiece. NEVER would I ever buy a watch from Ebay, period.

[JAD3703]

I lived through a similar situation with a seller on e-bay a few weeks ago. Luckily, I got almost all of my money back (I am not fussed about the small amount that I lost - I consider it lesson-learned money).

I then heeded the advice of Solar (Chris) and JJ via Chris - I went into a well known and highly reputable AD in Toronto last weekend and bought my Sea Dweller.

And it has not left my wrist since.

A really good lesson learned for me - if it is too good of a deal, chances are that it is exactly that - too good of a deal.

James

[daunwaun]

this story is a little confussing?? gen movement but fake everything else lol are you serious??? do you know how hard it is to find a gen movement

[XELOR]

This is what came back from RUSA:

RUSA Document: 11025-3973 Dated 8/21/07:

Notes:

Case & Bracelet Are Not Of Rolex Manufacture
Return As Received

The serial number is: 9526241 :thumbsdow

this story is a little confussing?? gen movement but fake everything else lol are you serious??? do you know how hard it is to find a gen movement

[txrob779]

The Admins removed my post.............why?

[Downing]

Thanks for the update. I'm glad to hear it ended well. :clap:

Like JJ said, now it's time to go see an AD. Either that or someone you know and trust, like the flippers in the Classified Section of TRF.

[Transient]

I'm sorry, but this scenario is too typical of Ebay purchases. More bad news than good. I still can' believe that, with so many respected resellers of fine watches, people still but on ebay?? How can you spend US$2000, or whatever in that bracket, on something that you haven't seen/touched??:read:

[LouCan]

An AD would have saved you $2000.

[rolexmonger]

Yes, I almost bought a Tudor Sub like that. Only the movment was real, and the rest, well, it was after all from Vietnam. Too nice to be true, and too clean to be vintage. Some lucky sucker paid almost $800.00 for a Tudor movement. Don't feel bad. At least you thought that what you were buying was real. Imagine buying a real Rolex for $6,000.00 only find out that most people want to pay $2,000.00, and that the one to pay you the $6,000.00 is hard to find. Believe me, even for guys that have been at it for years, mistakes do happen. In my case, all I have to do is find another guy like me to unload it on, but at least what I have is real, so the only complaint that someone can make later on is, "I paid too much," which is a relative term in the vintage watch market. Someone else always buys it for the same price if one is patient enough, but in your case it is different. Don't be too quick to judge the seller, however. If Rolex technicians didn't spot it right away, your seller might be as innocent as you. In that case, it might not be a bad sales practise to tell you to be a man and forget about it. I don't know. It is hard to tell what to do when you don't see everything clearly. You want to blame someone, but start with yourself, not with the seller. If he is intentionally selling fake stuff, he won't admit it anyway.

[Hellcat65]

This is the most bizarre post Ive read in a long time...A Fake case and bracelet with an authentic movement? Come on, did anyone really think about this? Who in their right mind would even contemplate going to the trouble to swap out a cheap asian movement to install a genuine Rolex movement?
I say the seller made an honest mistake.......no harm no foul.

[Destroy]

The important thing is you walked away with you wallet and sanity intact. Well done.

[mansion]

[...]
Who in their right mind would even contemplate going to the trouble to swap out a cheap asian movement to install a genuine Rolex movement?
[...]


Simple.

Take one genuine Rolex. Take one fake.

Put original Rolex movement in fake case, bracelet, etc. Put fake movement in original case, bracelet, etc.

You now have two pretty good-looking watches. One is genuine from the outside (and fake inside) and the other one, when opened, is a real Rolex.

You now have two Rolexes for sale.

[XELOR]

UPDATE: Counterfeit Rolex Seller Refunded All Funds And His Checked Cleared. Thank You All For The Support.

[Lol-x]

:clap: :clap: :clap: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

[XELOR]

I learned about how incredible many of you are -here on TRF- for trying to help.

That was the best part!


:cheers:

[mike]

UPDATE: Counterfeit Rolex Seller Refunded All Funds And His Checked Cleared. Thank You All For The Support.

Great news!!:cheers::cheers::cheers:

[Tools]

I learned about how incredible many of you are -here on TRF- for trying to help.

That was the best part!


:cheers:

Generally speaking, we're a Forum Family.

:cheers:

[Downing]

That's great news!

What's next?

[daunwaun]

UPDATE: 22 SEPT 07-------------A Full Refund Was Provided.

Hi Everyone:

Well I finally have something to post about...

The AD only crowd seems like a very smart group right about now.

I got scammed on a fake Rolex that was so real looking that Rolex USA, NYC technicians may have even missed it at first.

It started with an ebay Rolex seller with FANTASTIC FEEDBACK FOR SELLING NOTHING BUT ROLEX.

I sent a cashiers check and a non-Rolex in trade to the seller for a total value of around $2700 (a little high but I got to trade in a watch I didn't want anymore).

The watch I purchased was a 9 Million, TT DJ, MOD 16013 in too perfect condition (a clue I missed).

When the watch arrived I shipped it to ROLEX USA and they provided an estimate for routine service of around $500.

Rolex USA called back the next day after the original estimate to say basically only the movement is real.

When Rolex further checked the Head, Bracelet Etc.... fake.

So it's been five hours now (not days- there's still hope) and the seller hasn't returned my call.

As soon as the Rolex documentation arrives (indicating what they discovered) I will plaster the sellers name all over the place unless he agrees to an immediate refund.

This one hurts...try not to rub it in!

all is well that ends well

[Tombstone]

Congratulations you were so very lucky, I am looking forward to your happing ending with your new Rolex. Please post photos of your new Rolex when you get it. Once again congratulations to you.

[ASW1]

Glad all turned out well

[Erix]

Nice ending of a bad experience.

[unclesallie]

for future reference, the Better Business Bureau can oftimes make a difference with large seller/on the edge of being scammers; if that fails the local prosecutor or the US Attorney's Office can bring about quick results. Sometimes the State Attorney General has a consumer division which will bring heat quickly. All of these options are available, but the best option, of course, is not to deal on ebay for expensive watches like Rolex. Happy this ended well.

[Silvio]

With the information you have from Rolex you can sue this guy. Sue him man, I bet you'll win. I've seen cases on tv like yours and the seller always loose.

UPDATE: 22 SEPT 07-------------A Full Refund Was Provided.

Hi Everyone:

Well I finally have something to post about...

The AD only crowd seems like a very smart group right about now.

I got scammed on a fake Rolex that was so real looking that Rolex USA, NYC technicians may have even missed it at first.

It started with an ebay Rolex seller with FANTASTIC FEEDBACK FOR SELLING NOTHING BUT ROLEX.

I sent a cashiers check and a non-Rolex in trade to the seller for a total value of around $2700 (a little high but I got to trade in a watch I didn't want anymore).

The watch I purchased was a 9 Million, TT DJ, MOD 16013 in too perfect condition (a clue I missed).

When the watch arrived I shipped it to ROLEX USA and they provided an estimate for routine service of around $500.

Rolex USA called back the next day after the original estimate to say basically only the movement is real.

When Rolex further checked the Head, Bracelet Etc.... fake.

So it's been five hours now (not days- there's still hope) and the seller hasn't returned my call.

As soon as the Rolex documentation arrives (indicating what they discovered) I will plaster the sellers name all over the place unless he agrees to an immediate refund.

This one hurts...try not to rub it in!

[chevycorvette]

selling fake rolex on website or ebay is a serious crime. if you report it to fbi which they have a special department for online merchant who sell fake. this seller will have a serious trouble.

[FBender]

:cheers:

[TNRonin]

selling fake rolex on website or ebay is a serious crime. if you report it to fbi which they have a special department for online merchant who sell fake. this seller will have a serious trouble.

As a former police officer, the FBI would only go after him if this was a pattern. It is entirely possible this is an abberation. Glad it worked out for you.

[fly-dad]

I don't mean to sound like a broken record, but always buying from an AD ensures 100% authenticity.

It sounds like this seller got duped too...or he just figures nobody will send the watches he sells to an RSC right away as you did.

Glad you got your money back. :clap::thumbsup::thumbsup::clap:

[XELOR]

I'm the OP and did my share of research on the subject of various ways to sell fakes. I'd say you provided an excellent summary.

1) It could easily have been a very honest mistake- based on my dealings with the seller I tend to believe it was. (or)

2) Base your sales literature on " like new conditioned pre-owned" then command a substantial premium thanks to the brand new fake case and bracelet. Get away with it 100x before anybody bothers to immediately send the watch to Rolex for authentication. Express shock and dismay and refund the buyer on the rare occasion you get caught.

I don't mean to sound like a broken record, but always buying from an AD ensures 100% authenticity.

It sounds like this seller got duped too...or he just figures nobody will send the watches he sells to an RSC right away as you did.

Glad you got your money back. :clap::thumbsup::thumbsup::clap:

[PacNW]

Glad to hear things are clearing up for ya:thumbsup: