Review of the GMT II 116710LN

[SPACE-DWELLER]

The Rolex GMT Master is a model with a grand history behind it, and it would go beyond the scope of the review of the Rolex GMT II 116710LN to go into details of the fascinating history and aspects of the predecessor GMT's.

For those who want to read more about the "old" GMT's there are various articles, and the following links contain essays that give a short, but still good overview over GMT models and their history:

GMT! CLICK! (http://www.doubleredseadweller.com/gmt.htm)

GMT Transition! CLICK! (http://www.doubleredseadweller.com/gmt_transition.htm)

GMT - Past and present! CLICK! (http://bjsonline.com/watches/articles/0017.shtml)

GMT II 16710 and its predecessors! CLICK! (http://www.movements.dk/gmt-master_16710_gb.htm)

and last, but not least, various comparative reviews of the GMT II 16710 and GMT II 116710 have been made, but I will recommend the following excellent comparative review by "Sheldonsmith":

Two Rolex GMT's! CLICK! (http://members.aol.com/sheldons4/116710.htm)

Now to the review of the GMT II 116710LN.

The various parts of the watch (case, crystal, bezel, crown, dial, bracelet, clasp and movement) will receive "scores" from 1-5, depending on how well the various parts are made / function:


1:Not satisfactory
2: Mediocre
3: Satisfactory
4: Very good
5: Excellent


The GMT II 116710LN was introduced at the Basel World Fair in 2007. The steel/gold version (ref. 116713) came a year earlier, and the all-gold GMT II (ref. 116718) was launched in 2005 as an "Anniversary" model, sporting an all-green dial (later the all-gold version also came with a black dial option). The green-dialled all-gold GMT II is still made and has never been "limited".

"LN" stands for "Lunette Noir" (French for "Black Bezel"), by the way.

The Oyster case of the GMT II 116710LN (from now on referred to as the "new GMT II") has been updated compared to the predecessor GMT II's. The case now has:


"Super Case" (sometimes also called "block case"): Larger lugs with vertical satination instead of diagonal, coarser sationation of the lugs than of those of the "old" GMT II's.

Triplock Crown as compared to the Twinlock Crown of the "old" GMT II's.

Flatter crystal and lower lying caseback.

AR (Anti-reflective) coating of the cyclops lense.

Green GMT hand (AKA "24-hour hand")

Green "GMT MASTER II" writing on the dial.

"Maxi Dial" (i.e.: larger hands and larger indices that provide more lume of the applied SuperLuminova).

Ceramic bezel insert (24 clicks) with numbers filled out with Platinum as compared to the anodized aluminium bezel insert of the "old" GMT II's with 120 clicks.

Updated bracelet and clasp: Solid, polished centre links. A heavier and much more complicated construction of the clasp, including a hidden "Easy Link".


To show the difference, here are pictures of the old and new GMT II's:

GMT II 116710BLRO (Bleu-rouge - red/blue bezel AKA "Pepsi"):

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/gmt2.jpg

New GMT II 116710LN:

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/rx410.jpg

Some further photos of the new GMT II reviewed here, showing the above updates:

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/GMT%20II/DSC00379.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/GMT%20II/DSC00377.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/GMT%20II/DSC00385.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/GMT%20II/DSC00394.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/GMT%20II/DSC00393.jpg


CASE:

The case gets 4 points for the following reasons:

PROS:


Lower lying caseback provides a better fit on the wrist.

Triplock crown is easier to handle (and although the new GMT II still is "only" waterproof to 100 metres, the Triplock crown on its own is rated to be able to withstand a depth of 1,220 metres. This adds to more security).


Contras:


Lower lying caseback makes the case sit tighter against the skin, resulting in quicker developing of smudge and dirt on the case sides and caseback.

Optically, the Super Case style is too large compared to the bracelet width. But that is a matter of personal preference and taste.


Here are some pics:

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/GMT%20II/DSC00374.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/GMT%20II/DSC00375.jpg

Case width versus bracelet width:

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/GMT%20II/Cal3186.jpg

A Rolex Sea-Dweller compared with the new GMT II which shows the new, "big" design of the new GMT II:

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/GMTSD.jpg
(photo by Mike)


CRYSTAL:

The crystal gets 5 points for the following reasons:


Lower sitting crystal makes the watch easier to wear under shirt sleeves.

AR coating of the cyclops makes for an easier view of the date.


http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/GMT%20II/DSC00389.jpg


BEZEL:

The bezel scores 4 points, because:


it turns much more smoothly than the aluminium version.

it is scratch resistant and also not influenced by fading due to exposure of UV rays.


http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/GMT%20II/DSC00394.jpg

Contra point:


Only 24 clicks instead of 120


Here is a drawing of the construction of the new bezel with ceramic insert:

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/GMTCbezel.jpg

CROWN:

The Triplock crown - tested by time already - gets 5 points for:


Enhanced water resistance due to extra seals and gaskets, and

easier handling of the Triplock crown than of the Twinlock crown, especially if you have large hands/fingers.


http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/GMT%20II/DSC00374.jpg

Here are some pics and drawings of the Triplock crown that has FOUR seals (an O-ring on the crown tube, visible to the eye, one in the crown and two inside the tube):

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/tl.jpg

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/RolexCrownP01.jpg

By the way: The reason why the new GMT IIc is NOT waterproof to 1,220 metres (which the Triplock is rated to) is that the crystal and caseback are of "normal thickness" unlike the Sea-Dweller and Sub Dates.

DIAL:

The design and quality of the dial scores 5 points since:


the Maxi Dial provides much better lume at night and makes for an easier reading of the time during the day due to the bolder hands and indices.

the quality work of the (18 kt. white gold) hands and indices, combined with the perfection down to the tiniest detail of the letter fonts and immaculate glossy dial is outstanding


Some dial details (note also the "CRB" - Chapter Ring (or rehaut) Branding with "ROLEXROLEX" on the angled, satinised edge along the dial):

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/GMT%20II/DSC00435.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/GMT%20II/DSC00391.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/GMT%20II/DSC00385.jpg

The "LEC" (Laser Etched Coronet) in the crystal at six o' clock:

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/GMT%20II/DSC00387.jpg

Bracelet:

The bracelet receives a score of 4, because:

PROS:


The SOLID centre links makes the bracelet much sturdier and less "noisy" (some of the old Oyster bracelet can make a rattling sound when handled).


Contras:


Polished centre link much more proned to getting scratches and becoming smudged by fingerprints.


Here is a new GMT II that shows significant signs of wear (it is only ONE week one, though):

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/Grey_Mullman2weekWear.jpg
(photo by Grey "Mullman")

And here is a pic of the new GMT II clasp (after one month wear):

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/Leighton1monthwear.jpg
(photo by Leighton)

CLASP:

The clasp gets 4 points and is a chapter on its own even though it is part of the bracelet. Where the clasp of the old GMT II was made of simple bent sheets of metal (either steel or gold), the NEW clasp is much more sturdily made and quite complicated in its construction.

Here is a drawing of the construction of the new clasp:

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/clasppatent800ex0.jpg

Only drawback is the polished centre part of the clasp (like the polished centre links of the bracelet) that gets scratched very easily.

Strangely enough, most new GMT II's have a code on the buckle of the clasp saying "15/423". The significance of that code is still unknown, but the new GMT II that is reviewed here does NOT show this code. It seems that is has been omitted with the very latest M-series (M2728XX). Here is a picture (note the "EO9" code that means that the BRACELET - not necessarily the watch/case on its own! - was manufactured in September 2007):

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/GMT%20II/DSC00447.jpg

(for more "date codes on clasps, click here! ) (http://www.oysterinfo.de/en/detailinfos/schliessennummern/index.php)

MOVEMENT:

The Cal. 3186 movement (predecessor that the Cal. 3185 movt.) has received various updates, among them the installation of the Parachrom Bleu hairspring which is a Rolex invention and this new hairspring is virtually impervious to the influence of magnetic fields and changes in temperature.

For more about the Parachrom Blue hairspring:

Article 1! CLICK! (http://www.timezone.com/library/extras/200708222443)

Article 2! CLICK! (http://www.europastar.com/europastar/magazine/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003535554)

Article 3! CLICK! (http://www.horomundi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3577)

The movement scores 5 out of 5 possible points due to its amazing precision and superb construction. The new GMT II tested here has a precision of ½ a sec/day.

Here is a pic of the GMT II cal. 3186 movement:

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/GMT%20II/Cal3186.jpg

From the launch of the new GMT II until recently, only the OLD GMT II booklet was included in the box. For those owners of the new GMT II or for those who want to see the booklet, here it is (thanks to "Blackeagle"):

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/GMT%20booklet/GMTIIcFrontpage.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/GMT%20booklet/GMTIIcFrontpage1.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/GMT%20booklet/GMTIIcFrontpage2.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/GMT%20booklet/GMTIIcFrontpage3.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/GMT%20booklet/GMTIIcFrontpage4.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/GMT%20booklet/GMTIIcFrontpage5.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/GMT%20booklet/GMTIIcFrontpage6jpg.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/GMT%20booklet/GMTIIcFrontpage7.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/GMT%20booklet/GMTIIcFrontpage8.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/GMT%20booklet/GMTIIcFrontpage9.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/GMT%20booklet/GMTIIcFrontpage10.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/GMT%20booklet/GMTIIcFrontpage11.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/GMT%20booklet/GMTIIcFrontpage12.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/GMT%20booklet/GMTIIcFrontpage13.jpg

Last, but not least: the mandatory "Martini Shot":

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/GMT%20II/DSC00460.jpg

[Robb]

Awesome review Bo!!

[Hicks]

Great review Bo :thumbsup:

[Welshwatchman]

Excellent post, Bo. Just like the Daytona review.:thumbsup::thumbsup:

A wealth of information that will benefit lots of members.:cheers:

[Stef_Call]

Great review !! Thanks yet again !!!

[Jerry B]

Thank you for this fantastic review, It was very informative.:cheers:

[Anthony]

Hey Bo!!
Thanks for the Great Review!! Amazing as usual!!:thumbsup:

Love the Martini shot.

Take it easy Pimp:smokin:

:cheers:

[JJ Irani]

Great stuff, Bo.....very, very informative. Thanks for sharing this knowledge with us, pal!! :thumbsup:

[vukotab]

That`s what I call damn good review!After this I like GMTc even more!Thanks,Bo!

[frostie]

Great review Bo. :OMG: you did great work i enjoyed reading it

[TheDude]

Yeah, nice work Bo.


I just checked mine... M serial, but the bracelet says "E02" and has the 15/423 inscription. Clearly, the bracelet predates the rest of the watch construction by quite a while.

[Tallboy]

Great write-up-thanks!! :cheers:

[FanFromLakeMary]

Great info thanks! :thumbsup:

Just got a 16710 last week and loving it. But that new one looked good to. Was hard to decide.

[GerardoG]

Bo: Simply put.....AMAZING!!!!! Thank you!

[GerardoG]

BTW, could you please do the same with all the other models??!??! :justkiddi

[Texsubmariner]

Awesome review! My heart still skips a beat every time I look at my GMT IIc. Well done pics also.

[SSD]

Bravo! Quite superb, actually! One of the best reviews to date, very informative and easy to read. I enjoyed all the illustrations and was impressed with the links as well. Thanks!!

:cheers:

[SPACE-DWELLER]

BTW, could you please do the same with all the other models??!??! :justkiddi

:rofl: :dummy:

Nah! I only review the models I actually own, and currently I only have the SS Cos and SS GMT IIc.

But I promise that I will review any other watch I will buy later.

:cheers:

[Green Arrow]

Very nicely done. Slowly but surely I am selling off many of my watches, and focusing on what, exactly, calls out to me. The only watch that is certain to be a lifetime watch for me is my now 3 month old GMT Master II "Green Arrow" in 18K. For the first time, ever, Rolex has gotten the "lume" right, the movement is wonderfully accurate, and the watch can be worn with a tuxedo, or shorts without calling undue attention to the owner. This is just a terrific watch, in SS, Rolesor, or solid gold, and I would recommend it to anyone. Now, Rolex, make a 43 mm Seadweller in SS with a Maxi-Dial and I'll have the two watches I'd wear forever!!!

[SPACE-DWELLER]

(...)For the first time, ever, Rolex has gotten the "lume" right, (...)

Which reminds me that I forgot to post a lume shot in the review:

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/GMT%20II/DSC00382.jpg

:cheers:

[haakon59]

Thanks for putting together such a thorough review. :thumbsup:

[Arrows58]

Was going to get a sea dweller or a sub as my first but after seeing the GMT II with its new strap and all other improvements I had to have one and WOW it doesn’t disappoint. This review just reassures me I have made the right decision. One question though mine is and M161*** and on the strap I have the date stamp EO5 but not the code you mentioned. This is OK I presume?

[SPACE-DWELLER]

Was going to get a sea dweller or a sub as my first but after seeing the GMT II with its new strap and all other improvements I had to have one and WOW it doesn’t disappoint. This review just reassures me I have made the right decision. One question though mine is and M161*** and on the strap I have the date stamp EO5 but not the code you mentioned. This is OK I presume?

Welcome to TRF! :cheers:

Actually, I am VERY happy to hear (err: READ) that! :thumbsup:

Nice to learn that at least one other owner has a clasp without the "15/423" code.

Strange, though, since your clasp is made in May this year, and on a German forum I have seen reports of clasps having the code from July 2007 but also the 15/423 code.

Maybe, it is like the "jumbled up" situation that we have with the CRB on SOME Z-series but not on M-series Subs.

I still wish I knew what it meant, though! :read:


Congrats on the SS GMT IIc! :thumbsup:

:cheers:

[psynaptic]

Really informative write-up & pictures. How does the GMTIIc look like on a NATO or ZULU strap? Does it fit? Or is it taboo for something such as this to be even mentioned? :rofl:

[Leighton]

Excellent review of a fantastic watch, Bo! Thanks for sharing! :thumbsup: :cheers: :thumbsup:

[Arrows58]

Here's a picture as requested. :cheers:

[SPACE-DWELLER]

Terrific pic! :thumbsup:

Could you please post a macro shot of the clasp lacking the "15/423" code, too?

:cheers:

[mg1953]

Thank you. The review was very informative.

MG

[Arrows58]

Sorry not got the best camera to hand hope this is want you want:thumbsup:

[SPACE-DWELLER]

Thanks! :cheers: :thumbsup:

The pic's very good!

I wonder if we ever get that mystery of the code solved? What it meant/means and why it is on some of the GMT IIc's and not on others?

:cheers:

[Big Adam]

The "LEC" (Laser Etched Coronet) in the crystal at six o' clock:

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/GMT%20II/DSC00387.jpg


Here is a new GMT II that shows significant signs of wear (it is only ONE week one, though):

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/Grey_Mullman2weekWear.jpg
(photo by Grey "Mullman")

And here is a pic of the new GMT II clasp (after one month wear):

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/Leighton1monthwear.jpg


Two quick questions:
1) I've squinted and strained and ogled my new 116710LN for ages and I CANNOT see an LEC - Should I be worried?

2) I know the polished links of the GMT-IIc are regularly called "scratch magnets" but I've eaten food that's harder than my bracelet. I purchased my watch at 9am, wore it at work flying a desk and turned my watch over and was HORRIFIED at the scratches on the centre buckle. This was not after 4 months or 4 weeks or 4 days but 4 HOURS. It was far worse than your 1 month pic.

Now my desk is not made of sandpaper and I am STUNNED at the poor quality of the metal.

Everyone else seems to have a "Hey-ho-such-is-life" attitude. Is anyone considering COMPLAINING to Rolex. I sure am.

Apart from the bracelet, the watch is ACE!!! :comeandge

[Arrows58]

Cannot comment on the scratches as my watch is only a few days old but, as for the LEC try holding a torch 45 degree angle from the 12o'clock position and the light should help show it up.

[f16570]

Bo thanks for taking the time to post, Excellent.
:cheers:
f

[KansaiVet]

Love it! NIce Bo! Can't wait to get mine!!

[veilstylez]

WOW what a review, THanks for taking the time to do it!!!

[roadcarver]

Enjoyed your thorough review Bo!

[SPACE-DWELLER]

Enjoyed your thorough review Bo!

Thanks, Vernon! :cheers:

Strangely enough, this review took me much longer to write that the SS Daytona review.

:cheers:

[seantk]

THANK YOU! for this review. I went to several AD last night looking at submariners and I saw this watch.... and I am really impressed

Sean

[riderxps]

super review.thanks

[lithium]

that is the best information of GMT, i got one myself now.

Regards,
anthony

[lithium]

see my GMT here & some other collection www.bsbh.com.sg/watches.htm

Regards,
anthony

[Lol-x]

Pretty amazing collection anthony :thumbsup:

[bagel]

Great review, thank you very much ... :cheers:

[johan]

great job!

[bozooka]

(pssssst.... I'm new)

Thanks for the great review. I bought my new GMT IIc from AD in New Orleans on 12/15. Had it shipped to save on the tax and just got it in the mail today. YEA!! It is my favorite Rolex so far.
I am really worried about the scratching on the bracelet issue. I think I will just let it age in the box for a while.

Looking forward to learning alot on this forum!

[Henri Laurie]

Two quick questions:
1) I've squinted and strained and ogled my new 116710LN for ages and I CANNOT see an LEC - Should I be worried?

2) I know the polished links of the GMT-IIc are regularly called "scratch magnets" but I've eaten food that's harder than my bracelet. I purchased my watch at 9am, wore it at work flying a desk and turned my watch over and was HORRIFIED at the scratches on the centre buckle. This was not after 4 months or 4 weeks or 4 days but 4 HOURS. It was far worse than your 1 month pic.

Now my desk is not made of sandpaper and I am STUNNED at the poor quality of the metal.

Everyone else seems to have a "Hey-ho-such-is-life" attitude. Is anyone considering COMPLAINING to Rolex. I sure am.

Apart from the bracelet, the watch is ACE!!! :comeandge

Hi Adam

I know, the scratches can be quite annoying, having said that... my GMT 116710 LN is in near perfect condition after 5 months wear... thanks to Cape Cod Metal Polishing Cloths... They work like a dream... just put a small piece on a Q-Tip and rub gently in the direction / grain of the metal... works like a dream.

For more detailed info on this matter, visit www.rolexreferencepages.com John Hollbrook has a great articale on how to care for the "polished" center links of your Rollie.

I hope this helps you, its has completely healed & cured my scratch obsession.

Henri

[Henri Laurie]

(pssssst.... I'm new)

Thanks for the great review. I bought my new GMT IIc from AD in New Orleans on 12/15. Had it shipped to save on the tax and just got it in the mail today. YEA!! It is my favorite Rolex so far.
I am really worried about the scratching on the bracelet issue. I think I will just let it age in the box for a while.

Looking forward to learning alot on this forum!

Hi Bo

Welcome to TRF, read my reply to Big Adam... this should assist yoou with the scratch issue

Good Luck and enjoy your new GMT... rocking watch

Henri

[sharif]

Thanks! :cheers: :thumbsup:

The pic's very good!

I wonder if we ever get that mystery of the code solved? What it meant/means and why it is on some of the GMT IIc's and not on others?

:cheers:

Mine has 15/423
Just thought you would want to know. :)

The ones that have the 15/423 carry a $1000 premium in the aftermarket.......................:justkiddi
:rofl:

[goldenbezel]

First of all... Fantastic review. Great images..

Its always nice to see an informative post. I just purchased this watch today. I have had my eyes set on it for some time, but no AD's had them in stock. I would have to pay a premium to get one until today by chance i saw one in the window of my local AD. He said it had only been there for 24 hours.. and after trying it on i just snapped it up.

There is a lot of information given in your post which i did not know about.. So just wanted to say Thanks

[Mario]

Great review!!!

My question is: has anybody purchased a new GMTIIc and did not like it better than the prev. model? If so, for what reasons? I am thinking about getting the GMTIIc but I want to make sure it is all that people are saying it is. Any input would be great.

[SPACE-DWELLER]

First of all... Fantastic review. Great images..

Its always nice to see an informative post. I just purchased this watch today. I have had my eyes set on it for some time, but no AD's had them in stock. I would have to pay a premium to get one until today by chance i saw one in the window of my local AD. He said it had only been there for 24 hours.. and after trying it on i just snapped it up.

There is a lot of information given in your post which i did not know about.. So just wanted to say Thanks

Welcome to TRF! :cheers:

Congrats on getting the SS GMT IIc. Surely not easy to find desirable Rolex watches in the AD window displays in the UK. You were VERY lucky there!

I'm glad you liked my review :thumbsup:

[jimbo1mcm]

Now I want a second one!!! Wonder how many you sold with this review?

[sharif]

Just read it for the second time.....even better! :) Really nice work.

[flumazenil]

Nicely done. Some ebay seller was advertising the old gmt book as a positive feature that will make those watches more exclusive. I doubt that and am a little disappointed to get the old book with the new GMT.

[rpryan55]

Thanks, Bo. You're so good at this, you could do it for a living.

[flumazenil]

A lot of guys seem worried about the scratches. Is it possible to have a satin finish put on the mirror links?

[jimroe]

A lot of guys seem worried about the scratches. Is it possible to have a satin finish put on the mirror links?

This question seems to be asked more than any other, though I have never seen a picture posted by anyone who has actually done it. The concensus seems to be that if it would be done, RSC would return the bracelet to a polish during service and you'd end up losing more material as a result.

I chuckle each time I read posts expressing concern over the new GMT IIc polished center links - especially when I think back to how they made me begin to obcess over them before I got my GMT IIc.

The GMT IIc (and for that matter, its predecessors along with most other Rolex watches INCLUDING sport watches) has a lot of polished surfaces besides the bracelet center links. No one seems to obcess over scratches to those surfaces - but guess what - they also get scratched. As a matter of fact, so do the brushed surfaces of both the bracelet and the watch. Not only do the brushed surfaces get scratched, but over time and wear they tend to get polished out and the polished surfaces tend to get scratched a bit until they look more and more alike.

So I stopped obcessing over it. I know that the more I wear this watch, the more the brushed surfaces will look polished and the more the polished surfaces will look brushed - but the watch will still look great just like any sport Rollie that has been worn. And when I get it serviced it will come back and look like a new watch - for a couple of weeks anyway - and then it will start to look like MY Rolex - with its own character once again.

[LucasBSPX]

Hi guys,

Been a while since I've posted. Happy new year to you all.

Just a quick question, I read that the MSRP in the US is $5950? Does that include sales tax or do you add this on top?

MTIA

[rpryan55]

Hi guys,

Been a while since I've posted. Happy new year to you all.

Just a quick question, I read that the MSRP in the US is $5950? Does that include sales tax or do you add this on top?

MTIA

Sales tax is added to the MSRP. Happy New Year!

[LucasBSPX]

rpryan55,

Many thanks indeed!

All the best

[Remember2]

Bo,
You just set the standard! :thumbsup:

Thank you very much, for this perfect informative review:cheers:

[JBat]

Just found this. Awesome review, Bo, and nice shot at the end! My week and a half with the new GMT has been pure bliss and I wholeheartedly agree with your conclusions. :thumbsup:

[crimscrem]

Bo, thanks for this review. I must have looked at this 100 times before I decided to purchase the GMT-IIc.

[ausmce8]

Great review!

[TARDIS]

One of the finest watch reviews I have had the pleasure of reading. This model's sales will increase because of this!!

Well done Bo.:thumbsup:

[Perdu]

Outstanding review, thanks - I love that watch.

[freedious]

Hey Bo, Hope all is well. I got my new GMTII last month and it loses 3 seconds a day. Is this normal or should I send it in for an adjustment? This is my 1rst Rolex and my other watches are not as inaccurate.

[tommygoh]

I wish i can have one.....

[SPS9]

Thanks Bo for that superb review - you are a font of knowledge.

[SPACE-DWELLER]

Hey Bo, Hope all is well. I got my new GMTII last month and it loses 3 seconds a day. Is this normal or should I send it in for an adjustment? This is my 1rst Rolex and my other watches are not as inaccurate.

Welcome to TRF! :cheers:

First of all, congrats on getting such a nice timepiece!

Now, the COSC specs are minus 4 to plus 6 seconds, so your SS GMT IIc is well within specs.

3 secs/day is very good timekeeping, and I would not have it adjusted. If you give the watch some more time to adjust to your wearing habits, I am sure you will see even better timekeeping results.

You could also try out the advice given in this overview:

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/Reg.jpg

But don't expect it to do "magic" since these "Positional Correction" rules more applied to the non-fastbeat movements than the newer movts. that are much better regulated. But the "Crown Down" position still ought to make a difference with ANY mechanical watch. So have a try!

[Lubrifar]

Excellent review Bo! When you get the chance, can you please share the measurements as listed on the attached pic? Thanks. :thumbsup:

[cmr]

that was a fantastic review! i bought one of these last october and i love it!

just for informational purposes my clasp says,

op11

15/423

edit to add: my watch has a z serial number.

[problmchylde]

Just read the review.Very detailed.Awesome.:thumbsup:

[SPACE-DWELLER]

Excellent review Bo! When you get the chance, can you please share the measurements as listed on the attached pic? Thanks. :thumbsup:

I did think about it, but no way am I gonna put the sharp jaws of a caliper gauge anywhere near my watches.

I did weight it, though. It is 150 grams.

[Lubrifar]

I did think about it, but no way am I gonna put the sharp jaws of a caliper gauge anywhere near my watches.

I did weight it, though. It is 150 grams.

Come on, get her done already. Put it this way, once completed, your review of the GMT-IIc 116710LN will be the most thorough one. Think about it Bo. :thumbsup:

[SPACE-DWELLER]

I got these measurements that Chad made in another thread:

Thickness:

Sub ND 12.5mm
Sub LV 13.0mm
GMT II 12.0mm
Omega Seamaster Prof. 12.25mm

Outer Bezel Diameter:

Sub ND 39mm
Sub LV 40mm
GMT II 40mm
Omega SMP 41mm

[freedious]

Welcome to TRF! :cheers:

First of all, congrats on getting such a nice timepiece!

Now, the COSC specs are minus 4 to plus 6 seconds, so your SS GMT IIc is well within specs.

3 secs/day is very good timekeeping, and I would not have it adjusted. If you give the watch some more time to adjust to your wearing habits, I am sure you will see even better timekeeping results.

You could also try out the advice given in this overview:

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/Wiseled/Reg.jpg

But don't expect it to do "magic" since these "Positional Correction" rules more applied to the non-fastbeat movements than the newer movts. that are much better regulated. But the "Crown Down" position still ought to make a difference with ANY mechanical watch. So have a try!

Thank you very much for your response and great review.:cheers:

[och77]

Really prefect and great review! :thumbsup:
I like that watch! Hope can get 1 in the future! :agree:
Thanks!

[jme]

GMT II still is "only" waterproof to 100 metres, the Triplock crown on its own is rated to be able to withstand a depth of 1,220 metres.
. . As long as I can jump in 10 ft 100 meters works.
Came very close to purchasing this beautiful timepiece today , Thank You for a real nice review .

JM E Sub

[Jimbits76]

Great stuff Bo, informative as ever

A belated congrats on the green arrow.

J

[mborkow]

i've had my GMT IIc since August, and my clasp now looks more satin than polished. Either way, i love it. scratches don't detract from a tool watch (it isn't a car ;-) )

[Greg9999]

SPACE-DWELLER (sorry, I thought this was Bo's review- my mistake! - do you have the same type of review with pictures (such as the twin-lock and others) for the 16170 (previous generation GMT II)?

MODERATOR EDIT (Prince): Total quote of Bo's review deleted to preserve board sanity! :chuckle:

[SPACE-DWELLER]

SPACE-DWELLER = Bo = the member who wrote this review. :cheers:

Sheldon, "Sheldonsmith" here, wrote an excellent review of the GMT II 16710, and he has a lot of interesting information on his website. His homepage is shown on his "View member profile" page her (click on his name).

[topcat30093]

Hi Bo
Thank you for such an excellent and informative article.
Any chance that you could do such a good review on a DD??
That I would certainly look forward to reading.
Cheers

[tandrup]

Bo,
Very nice and detailed review. Great pics and good references.

[daveathall]

Great review thank you for sharing it with us.

[alex_75]

fantastic!! :thumbsup:

[miked]

Sales tax is added to the MSRP. Happy New Year!

really? Thats awesome, whenever there were conversations about discounts I thought that would get you out the door for msrp, (after discount, plus tax)

[miked]

really? Thats awesome, whenever there were conversations about discounts I thought that would get you out the door for msrp, (after discount, plus tax)

haha read that wrong :dummy:

[johan]

:cheers: super job

[p2511]

Great info Thanks :thumbsup :thumbsup:

[Jackflash]

Hi all

I've been looking for the new SS GMT II for more than a year and after looking in New York, Zurich and London (Harrods too!) I eventually found one in my local AD in Surrey 4 days ago!!

Its absolutely beautiful and I couldn't be happier. The only issue I have is that it doesn't have the LEC and even the dealer couldn't see it under a loupe! He suggested that Rolex might not do it on the GMT II

I was wondering if anyone knows why this might be? Is it possible that Rolex has stopped this? My model has a serial number beginning with 'Z' so I guess its pretty new (the dealer said he's had it in less than 24 hours)

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

[Terry Newton]

Mine is also a Z model and you have to hold it at an angle, look at it through a magnifying lens, and shine a bright light on it. You will see it. It is there right at the 6 o'clock mark.

Beautiful watch. I Love mine.

Terry Newton

[KansaiVet]

Hi all

I've been looking for the new SS GMT II for more than a year and after looking in New York, Zurich and London (Harrods too!) I eventually found one in my local AD in Surrey 4 days ago!!

Its absolutely beautiful and I couldn't be happier. The only issue I have is that it doesn't have the LEC and even the dealer couldn't see it under a loupe! He suggested that Rolex might not do it on the GMT II

I was wondering if anyone knows why this might be? Is it possible that Rolex has stopped this? My model has a serial number beginning with 'Z' so I guess its pretty new (the dealer said he's had it in less than 24 hours)

Any advice would be greatly appreciated


Welcome!

Congrats on your new GMT II. :clap:

The LEC is there. Put it under a bright light at an angle with a magnifying glass or loupe. Its there! :cheers:

[Jackflash]

Thanks a lot for your help guys

The LEC is indeed there!!

Onto another point, I only got the standard manual with the watch (with the green front cover) and have seen some pictures of other people's that have come with a manual with a full colour front.

Is this colour one the correct manual for my watch and the green an old one?

[SPACE-DWELLER]

Thanks a lot for your help guys

The LEC is indeed there!!

Onto another point, I only got the standard manual with the watch (with the green front cover) and have seen some pictures of other people's that have come with a manual with a full colour front.

Is this colour one the correct manual for my watch and the green an old one?

Welcome to TRF! :cheers:

Good job you finally spotted the LEC!

The manual I posted pics of at the end of my review is the NEW (and correct) manual for the GMT IIc. The colour of the booklet is dark green and has a bold relief imprint GMT II dial on it.

The predecessor booklet for the GMT II 16710 you can read by clicking this link. (http://www.movements.dk/doc_gmt_01-02_gb.html)

[Jackflash]

Once again, thank you very much for your help Space-Dweller!

As you can probably tell I'm new to Rolex having had a Breitling previously, so please excuse any elementary questions I might ask!

The next issue I have is that my GMT IIc seems to be losing around 1.5 seconds/day(i.e. runs slow). I understand that I can't expect it to perform as accurately as my quartz Breitling and that in the terms of automatic watches this is very accurate.

I just can't help being a little disappointed, especially given your review saying that yours is only out about half a second a day, and the new Parachrom hairspring.

Do you think that this will improve once I've owned it for a while?

Its currently less than two weeks old and I do wear it around 16 hours a day.

[SPACE-DWELLER]

Welcome to TRF, Jack!

I am glad you liked my review.

I'd give the SS GMT IIc some more time to settle in, i.e.: adjusting to your wearing habits.

Key word to accuracy is consistancy. It your watch is consistantly losing 1.5 secs./day, it is in fact very accurate (and running well within the COSC specs that are minus 4 to plus 6 secs./day).

But if you're unhappy with the precision, as stated, give the watch a mont's time to settle in, and if it still loses 1.5 secs. consistantly, you can have it re-adjusted to have it run faster.

Regulation can be done in a giffy at your AD.

[krattzz]

My new GMT II C is an M serial and the clasp says E07. Wonder why some new M's have them and some don't. I guess since my serial begins with M71 its before the omitted them. Wonder if this add any value having it marked their?

It's lost about 1 second since I set on Thursday, so that's an average of 2 seconds a week or 8 per month. Is this average, better or normal?

[SPACE-DWELLER]

My new GMT II C is an M serial and the clasp says E07. Wonder why some new M's have them and some don't. I guess since my serial begins with M71 its before the omitted them. Wonder if this add any value having it marked their?

It's lost about 1 second since I set on Thursday, so that's an average of 2 seconds a week or 8 per month. Is this average, better or normal?

The code EO7 stands for 2007 (EO), July (7). You can see more about these codes on oysterworld.de. But some of the first SS GMT IIc's had a further code on the clasp - "15/423" - that seems to have been omitted on the latest examples. We have yet to figure out what that code meant.

Anyway, neither of those codes would add to the value of the watch, I'm afraid.

As for the accuracy of your watch? Hey, what can I say? The precision of your watch is neither "average", "better" nor "normal", but absolutely amazing! :thumbsup:

[dbanaga]

Thank you for an excellent review. Purchased one as my first Rolex recently and loving it. Great info.

[Heikki]

Here's mine:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b209/1000m/SUC54247.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b209/1000m/SUC54294.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b209/1000m/SUC54311.jpg

[timackerman]

That was a great review Bo, thanks.

The more I see this watch, the more I am drawn to it!!

[mikey]

Love it

[bewithabob]

Bo- Thank you for the absolutely fabulous and detailed review. Now I must have a GMT Master II .
Bob

[andylee97]

great review

[stvpcs]

Hi there,... could anyone tell me whats the differences of the M and Z serial ??

anyone could tell me is this Web safe from buying rolex ??

http://www.rolexcenter.net/rolex_gmt_ss.htm

[gherdin]

Hi there,... could anyone tell me whats the differences of the M and Z serial ??

anyone could tell me is this Web safe from buying rolex ??

http://www.rolexcenter.net/rolex_gmt_ss.htm

I would stay away from this shop. There is no posibility to contact them and some of the links on the homepage are not working. The prices are too good to be true.

[golfball123]

great review !!!

[Magik]

Loved your review and all the other articles you included with it:clap:.

[DaveN]

Very nice review. Thanks for sharing...

[jands8916]

Fantastic... Just ordered up one from an AD in Vegas... no buyers remorse here!

[etp095]

very good review.

[shedlock2000]

Yeah, nice work Bo.


I just checked mine... M serial, but the bracelet says "E02" and has the 15/423 inscription. Clearly, the bracelet predates the rest of the watch construction by quite a while.


X2 here also.

Fantastic review Bo, conclusive and encompasing. I too have issues with the polished links and clasp, but i also find the extended thickness of the clasp to be a drawback when typing and similar, as it is easily snagged.

Good point though to confirm thepedigree of the ceramic bezel, i have done some mechanic work today, (i never take my watch off, its a work tool but just a very good one) and caught the bezel several times, and though the bracelet has marks on it, the bezel, and crystal are blemish free!! great!

Thanks for your time and efforts.

[erick]

great watch. I'm leaning towards selling my expy2 to get a GMT II.

[Danz]

Dear Bo,

Well done! good stuff! thanks from Singapore.

Danz

[Scarface]

:cheers:

[GMTII Owner]

Excellent review.

[Viracocha]

well done..thanks

[sini1717]

Bo another first class review so much info for us beginers thanks again:thumbsup::cheers:

[elgatonegro]

Thanks for sharing. Very informative! :cheers:

[urwtdrm]

Thanx Bo! This post is what I looked at over and over before I bought my GMT :cheers:

[Harry_III_UK]

Bo - that post is brilliant!

Superb review - and amazing technical drawings!

Many thanks for sharing!

All the best,

Harry

[jkim]

GMT ll is Beautiful watch, Thanks for your sharing!

[Daytonaboy1977]

Bo every credit my friend!!!! A truly awesome review for a truly awesome watch!!!! Thanks

[sini1717]

hats of to u bo another superb review. cheers


is that a pipe u have with your martini
ur 2coollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll lll

[MichDui]

I love mine!!!


Great review!!

[TT Datejust]

Great review! Make me know more about this great watch.

[briweed]

Awesome review. I just picked mine up a few days ago. I love the clasp!

Great watch.

BK
:agree:

[adam69sun]

Here's mine:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b209/1000m/SUC54247.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b209/1000m/SUC54294.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b209/1000m/SUC54311.jpg

NICE WATCH ! I like...:agree:

[pwrslider]

Great photos Sun!!!:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[asadtiger]

hey steve, I can see you got a great collection of one of the finest watches, so can we have some pics of your cool collection?...you got rollies so post it in the rolex gallery n name it steve's collection so I can find it..it appears great :)..

n oh, this review n its pics are great too :)

[tommy_uk77]

nice watch...but i dont like the center polish bracelet,can change to other link like explorer II bracelet?

[18pcs]

Hi Adam

I know, the scratches can be quite annoying, having said that... my GMT 116710 LN is in near perfect condition after 5 months wear... thanks to Cape Cod Metal Polishing Cloths... They work like a dream... just put a small piece on a Q-Tip and rub gently in the direction / grain of the metal... works like a dream.

For more detailed info on this matter, visit www.rolexreferencepages.com John Hollbrook has a great articale on how to care for the "polished" center links of your Rollie.

I hope this helps you, its has completely healed & cured my scratch obsession.

Henri

I guess this is pretty old, the link is dead. Any idea where I can find the article on the care of the polished links, thanks.

[sheldonsmith]

http://www.minus4plus6.com/images/maintenance/thumbnails/tn_scrubbingbubbles2.JPG

http://www.minus4plus6.com/images/maintenance/thumbnails/tn_capecodtape.JPG
I have some info posted at http://www.minus4plus6.com/maintenance.htm on using Cape Cod cloths...

-Sheldon

[18pcs]

http://www.minus4plus6.com/images/maintenance/thumbnails/tn_scrubbingbubbles2.JPG

http://www.minus4plus6.com/images/maintenance/thumbnails/tn_capecodtape.JPG
I have some info posted at http://www.minus4plus6.com/maintenance.htm on using Cape Cod cloths...

-Sheldon

Thanks for the link. I think they are too dicey for me, I will live with the slight scratches for the time being. Thanks anyway.

[Trimmer2]

I'm looking forward to my new SS GMT Master II. This review and pictures sold me! I had to go in to an AD to touch it in person before I made my final decision and before it arrives from RUSA. It is a big and heavy watch but, will be my everyday wear. I had a choice of a SS Submariner Date but, it looked too "everyday Rolex" to me. I like the new styling of the GMT and wasn't really ever a fan of the older GMT's. This looks like a HUGE upgrade from the Sub and from earlier GMT models.

I currently own a YG Daytona with brown leather strap '98 (Zenith) and arabic numbers purchased from an AD and it is/was my everyday watch. I think it's a little over the top in today's economy and sometimes I feel like a target. It has appreciated nicely though ;) I ALWAYS get comments on it especially from the ladies ;) The biggest drawback is getting 1 or 2 new straps a year. Last year I had it in for it's 3rd overhaul and I was utterly amazed how good it looked when it returned! I guess when you wear it day in and day out, you don't notice how beat up it gets. I'm sure I'll go through the same thing with the high polish bracelet on the GMT too.

The GMT should arrive any day!

[sparkyg]

Great review!! I am really coming around to the GMT, the beauty is truly awesome.

Unbelievable quality of construction and it seems that everything is perfect.

[scottjal]

I did think about it, but no way am I gonna put the sharp jaws of a caliper gauge anywhere near my watches.

I did weight it, though. It is 150 grams.


I have a cheap plastic one that won't mar watches or anything, only accurate to about .2 probably but good enough for this.

Total Length, lug tip to lug tip: 47.7mm
Width, measured at Bezel: 40.1mm
Width, measured overall, crown screwed in: 44.2mm
Height, typical: 12mm
Height, including magnifier: 13mm
Band: still 20mm

[scottjal]

I have worn a black bezel SS 16710 for the past couple years and it was rather bothering me they released an upgrade practically right after I got my watch. Last week I took the plunge and purchased an 116710 GMT IIc SS and after about a week of wearing it I would like to share my collection of thoughts between the two. If you can't decide which to get or why maybe this will help.

First of all why get a GMT watch at all? Personally I travel a lot for business, actually as I write this I am in Calgary Alberta Canada but I live in the greater Boston MA area so I really get some use out of the easy timezone changing features. Both the quick 24h bezel zone change and the quick set 12h hand are exclusive on the GMT models, and the best part is neither of which require you to stop and reset the watch so you can remain accurate to the second you last synced the watch. It’s handy but many people just get by with remembering to do the math while traveling. So if you don’t care about these features for the rest of the review you can just think Submariner if you prefer for the previous model 16710 as that watch comes very close to the Sub. The 16710 is slightly thinner and lighter, has a smaller twinlock crown where the sub has the triplock crown and depth rating to match but they both share a similar band if you overlook the Submariner’s divers extension.


Weight: The IIc is noticeably heavier than the model it replaces. While it isn't a lot both the watch head and band are significantly heavier. For me this isn't desirable or a plus at all, I was a real fan of the 16710's light weight.

3186 movement: The 3186 reduced slop in quick setting the 12h hand is a rather subtle change. The whole cluster of hands moves slightly when you move the settable 12h hand just like it does with the 3185 but it is much reduced. The more annoying thing for me is the minute hand seems to have the same amount of slop when you are setting the time, generally its best to approach the minute mark in reverse still to get it closest to the mark when running normally.

3186 accuracy: Could not be happier here! The watch seems to gain under a second if worn daily and set face up over night, and looses just over a second or so if set crown down over night. For the past week and a half setting it crown down every third night is keeping it dead even with the time.gov site. This was probably my greatest fear in changing watches, my 3185 ran a very fine +0.5 to +1/day worn daily and crown down over night. I didn't think it was going to be possible to get anything as good or better than that, I was willing to accept anything inside COSC but this is just great! Your results will vary.

Lume: Greatest upgrade on the whole watch! The new maxi dial and hands are just a touch fatter as you can see in pictures but that makes a world of difference in the lume, probably easily readable for twice to four times longer than the amount of time as the old dial could be read once it was in the dark. I never liked the 16710 dial lume and I am on record saying it really doesn't pass the movie test IMO but the 116710 is a big step in the right direction.

Green hand and lettering: The 16710 with the red 24h hand really pops out there and makes a nice accent. The new 116710 with the green 24h hand and the green “GMT – MASTER II” lettering on the dial do a very good job of hiding on the black face giving the dial an uncluttered look. In my opinion the best possible looking Rolex sports watch is the Submariner no date model simply because the dial is simple and uncluttered. The green features that blend in come closer to this look, it’s a nice change.

Triplock crown: Well it's bigger but apparently useless on this watch still being rated at 100M. I do like is that that first external O ring that keeps dust and grit out of the crown threads, maybe less likely to wear out the stem tube here. Maybe more O rings mean the crown is more water resistant longer in its life span too. I guess in looks alone it appears more balanced, the twinlock never really bothered me but the triplock does look a little more at home at imitating the whole Submariner look. One thing I never really noticed until I had the watch in hand is the crown isn't centered vertically in the case anymore as it was on the 16710. When they added material to the back of the case for the 116710 the crown stayed in the same place and now appears to be off center towards the dial side. Actually I think it’s for the best as it appears the crown is up and flush with the back of the case which means it won't dig into you, but it is interesting to see it clears the bezel by what appears to be about 1mm.

Supercase: As you have no doubt seen others comment on the flatter back of the case being a better feel on the wrist I'm going to repeat that here. My 16710 quite often wanted to slip around the back of my wrist and I don't find that happening on this watch. On the other hand I do think the bigger flatter surface seems to collect a little more sweat and sticks to you, not a real concern though. The supercase also seems to be responsible for a lot of the added weight with the additional material on the bottom and thicker lugs. I really don't like the width of the lugs being so much greater with the same band, they make the classic oyster band look a little like it is too skinny for the watch. I don't think that was necessary especially when you consider the case isn't any wider than the old one. This is about the one top thing on the whole watch I keep coming back to and wishing they hadn't changed, the watch just appears a little too square and fat now.

Bezel: Well this is where most of the excitement is; right up front the unscratchible ceramic bezel has bigger and a little easier to read numbers too. My only thought on a possible down side is it could possibly shatter, similar to sapphire crystals, but I guess it would have to be a brute of an impact to do that. I haven't heard any reports of anyone shattering one yet though. Funny thing is it is actually too shiny, it has such a perfect reflection it rarely looks the deep perfect black that it is. It's weird but in my opinion it looks a little like really blacked out chrome sometimes. My old 16710 had the short click spring, which meant the bezel was easier to turn one way than the other. I hear and see photos of a longer spring that corrected that but my watch was made in 2006, you would think they would have fixed the problem well before that? Regardless the 116710 new support bearings have a super slick feel to them and positively engage at their stops. Only downside I can think of here is we are down to 24 clicks now down from the old 120 clicks, which is only really a down side if you are using the bezel as a timer, which admittedly I do quite a bit. It doesn't interfere with that function though; it will hold a setting between clicks no problem.

Rehaut engraving: As mentioned everywhere else ROLEXROLEX is engraved all the way around the dial and had the serial number at 6. If you don’t like it in the pictures you see on the net don’t worry, you won’t even see it day to day. Actually it is very nice to be able to read the serial number without removing the band, it’s likely going to be a big help to everyone in the sales/service channels.

Band: The band links are solid on the new band which is to say they are to blame for a little of the additional weight for this watch. I guess what that means to us is two things. First the "sound" of the bracelet is silenced a bit. This being one of the remaining things after the solid end links and sheet metal clasp that contributed to the tinkle sound of the bracelet which is pretty much completely gone now. The sound you get with this watch is more of a muted click when you set the watch down, sort of an intangible detail that I like. The other thing I'm really not sure is going to help but maybe the bracelet stretch issue is going to be less of a problem on this bracelet. As far as the polished center links on this new watch I thought I was going to hate them, and as the watch was used when I got it they already have a good collection of scratches. After wearing it though the strongest I can feel about the polished links is whatever, it just doesn't bother me or make me like it any more or less, they just are there and aren’t intrusive.

Clasp: First off there is absolutely nothing wrong with the old fliplock clasp. Just because it is made out of stamped metal means nothing, it is a very high quality piece, its very light and has no relationship whatsoever to the cheap imitation clasps that everyone knows fall apart. There was no way that clasp was coming open, you can even snag it on something and it stays closed, for what it is it is top of the line. In case you couldn’t guess, I really liked the fliplock. The new clasp is just simply a completely different animal; it is a little bigger in most directions, heavier and appears to be even more secure. It does have a smaller range of micro adjusts to it but that doesn't matter as they cover all the range between adding and removing a link just fine. With the old clasp many people would pop the micro adjust out a notch on a hot day and I have done that here and there, no big deal. The new clasp has a really nice expansion link worth about half the length of a link, so if the watch is fitting too tight on a hot day it is simplicity itself to take it off pop the link and put it back on in a matter of seconds with no attention to detail or possibly loosing a springbar. In most of the reviews I read for the 116710 this expander link was left out but this is really a nice little added feature for extra comfort.

Bottom line, is the 116710 worth a little more than a couple thousand US dollars over the 16710? I don’t really know that I can say. The price increases across the board were pretty steep this year and the ramp up in cost of this model redesign I feel was more than it had to be but that just seems to be the way with all things Rolex these days. In my opinion anyone wanting the big Submariner watch look without the weight and size would really be best served with the previous model 16710 as it is the lightest and smallest example of the entire Rolex sports line, actually thinner and a little lighter than the Submariner. With the new 116710 you are skipping right up to a watch that wears with a weight closer to and maybe on par with the Seadweller even if the shape is still close to the Sub height wise but visibly “fatter” in girth of the watch head and clasp. Myself I will be keeping it due to the improvements in the movement, clasp, bezel and the addition of the triplock crown.

[sparkyg]

Thx for the additional review info Scott, stay cool in Cowtown, it was 35 in Edmonton today.