The Rolex Submariner (vintage)

[Tools]

Rolex Submariners non-date

Model ........ Mvt. ............. Years ....................Depth rtg
6205 ..........A296 .......... 1954-1955................... 600
6204 ..........A260 ...........1953-1954....................600
6200 ..........A296...............1953................. ........660
6536 ..........1030 ...........1955-1959....................330
6538 ..........1030 ...........1954-1959.....................660
5508 ..........1530 ...........1957-1961.....................330
5510 ..........1530 ...............1958.........................660
5512 .....1530/1560/1570..1959-1978.....................660
5513 ........1520/1530.......1962-1989.....................660
5514 ..........1520............1969-1977.....................660
5517 ..........1520.................1977............... .........660
14060.........3000..............1989-1999....................1000
14060M.......3130..............1999-today...................1000

Photos:
5513,
47491

Points of Interest:

The bezel clicks:
5512,5513,1680,1665, models use a bi-directional friction fit (press to turn) bezel.
16800 and foward--use a uni-directional bezel with 120 clicks

[Tools]

Rolex Submariners (date)

................-under construction-

The following information and photo contributions by Mike:

The 1680 made it's debut circa 1967 with the RED meters first dial.
Latter REDS with feet first began circa 1970,

Hacking is generally felt to have been introduced in the 70 to 71 timeframe as Rolex brought the modification on line, but some crossover exists.

1970 RED 2.5 mil. NON-HACK

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/mike381/facered.jpg

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/mike381/149_4964.jpg

Most collectors shy away from REDS over 4 mil.

Additionally, FEET FIRST dials had several different style fonts,

Note: Photo credit Bernard,

1970-72ish, opens 6s

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/mike381/Rolex1680RedHans3-1.jpg

72-73ish, semi-open--NOTEWORTHY, some feel these were Beyeler dials made in the 3 to 3.5 mil range,

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/mike381/RedBeyelerDetail.jpg

73-74--closed 6s

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/mike381/BBRolex1680closed.jpg

The white came circa 1975 though many have noted finding one in this serial number range is a challenge. Some speculate the 1680 was made in very few numbers from circa 75-77 for what ever reason.
Most seem to fall into a serial number range after 77-78.

Mine, both 5 mils, circa 1978-79,

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/mike381/DSC00316850-1.jpg

A luminova replacement dial,

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/mike381/151_5183.jpg

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/mike381/31glo.jpg

May I also submit the reference 16800?

Making it's debut circa 1979-1980, the reference 16800 introduced several new features.
The first diver to have a 3035 fast beat movement. It also was the first to feature a true quick-set date, uni-directional ratching bezel, sapphire crystal, metal pearl cup, and of course an increased depth rating to 300 meters.

Early versions had a matt dial sans WG surrounds, while later versions came with a gloss dial with WGs (circa 1985)

Mine circa 1980,

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/mike381/150_5010-50-1.jpg

Links:

http://www.doubleredseadweller.com/rs1.htm

http://www.doubleredseadweller.com/rs2.htm

[cigardaddy]

wow nice pics. i have i guess you would call vintage ''85''- 87'' year rolex sub 16800 3035 with the white gold indices. very nice watch to wear on the regular. i'll post some pics soon.

[Gurmot]

This came up in another thread and I posted the info below. Some members thought it should be included here for future reference so here goes...

I can't claim any credit for this info as it is something I came across a while ago and stored for future use. Apologies and thanks to the orignal source.:clap:

Following are the various Submariner vintage models (by case number):

6200 - Original Submariner
Launched in 1953. Depth rated to 200m (660 ft) with an 8mm crown. No crown guard and no depth rating on dial. Submariner not printed on dial. Dial similar to Explorer style dials of same period. Non-Chronometer A296 movement with 18 Jewels. Larger case than the 6204 or 6205. Larger crown marked Brevet.
Updated in 1955. Depth rated to 200m (660 ft) with an 8mm crown. No crown guard and no depth rating on dial. Submariner printed on dial. Included the Mercedes hands. Non-Chronometer A296 movement with 18 Jewels. Larger case than the 6536 or 6538. Larger crown marked Brevet.

6204 - Launched in two versions
Launched in 1954. Depth rated to 100m (330 ft) with a 6mm crown. No crown guard and no depth rating on dial. Submariner printed on dial. Dial revised from 6200. Used the upgraded non-chronometer A260 movement with 18 Jewels. Smaller than the 6200.
Updated in 1954. Depth rated to 100m (330 ft) with a 6mm crown. No crown guard and no depth rating on dial. Model name "blacked-out." Non-Chronometer A260 movement with 18 Jewels. Smaller than the 6200

6205 - Launched in 1954. Depth rated to 100m (330 ft) with a 6mm crown. No crown guard and no depth rating on dial. Model name not present on dial. Dial revised from

6200 - Used the upgraded A260 movement. Same size as the 6204. Smaller than the 6200
Updated in 1955. Depth rated to 100m (330 ft) with 6mm crown. No crown guard however depth rating now printed on dial (white). Model name present on dial. A260 movement. Smaller than the 6200

6536 - Launched in 1955. Upgrade of the 6205 model. Depth rated to 100m (330 ft) with the 8mm crown. No crown guard and no depth rating on dial. Submariner printed on dial. First time use of the Mercedes hands. Movement upgraded to the non-chronometer 1030 with 25 Jewels. Updated in 1956. Depth rated to 100m (330 ft) with a 8mm crown. No crown guard however depth rating now printed on dial (white). Submariner also printed on dial. Non-Chronometer 1030 movement. First time Bezel contained markers for first 15 minutes.

6536/1 - Launched in 1956. Depth rated to 100m (330 ft) with a 8mm crown. No crown guard with depth rating printed on dial (white). Model name also present on dial. Chronometer 1030 movement with 25 Jewels. Bezel with markers for first 15 minutes. Triangle on Bezel painted red.

6538 - James Bond Submariner (Dr. No)
Launched in 1955. Upgrade of the 6204 model. Depth rated to 100m (330 ft) with the 6mm crown. No crown guard and no depth rating on dial. Model name present on dial. Used the upgraded A260 movement.
Updated in 1956. Depth rated to 200m (660 ft) with 8mm crown. No crown guard with depth rating printed on dial (white). Model name also present on dial. Upgraded to the 1030 movement. Case upgraded to same size as the
6200 (larger). Updated in 1956. Depth rated to 200m (660 ft) with 8mm crown. No crown guard with depth rating printed on dial (white). Model name also present on dial. 'Officially Certified Chronometer' now painted on dial. 1030 movement.

5508 - Launched in 1958. Upgrade to the 6536/1 model. Depth rated to 100m (330 ft) with 6mm crown. No crown guard and depth rating on always printed on dial. Model name printed on dial. Upgraded to the new Chronometer 1530 movement. Updated in 1964. Luminous markers not enclosed by circular border.

5510 - Launched in 1958. Upgrade to the 6200 model. Depth rated to 200m (660 ft) with the 8mm crown. No crown guard and depth rating printed on dial. Submariner printed on dial. New Chronometer 1530 movement.
Updated in 1964. Depth rated to 200m (660 ft) with the 8mm crown. No crown guard. Depth rating printed on dial. Printing on dial changed to white.

5512 - Launched in 1959. Depth rated to 200m (660 ft) with 8mm crown. Crown guard. Depth rating printed on dial. Chronometer. 'Officially Certified Chronometer' printed on dial. Submariner printed on dial. New 1560 Chronometer movement. Updated in 1965. Depth rating to 660 ft (200m) with 8mm crown. Crown guard. Depth rating printed on dial. Superlative added to printing on dial.

5513 - James Bond Submariner (Live and Let Die)
Launched in 1962. Depth rated to 200m (660 ft) with 8mm crown. Crown guard. Depth rating printed on dial. Non-Chronometer. 1530 movement. Dial marked with Swiss. Updated in 1963. Depth rating to 660 ft (200m) with 8mm crown. Non-Chronometer 1520 movement. Swiss T<25 printed on dial.
Navy model launched in 1968. Depth rated to 660 ft (200m) with 8mm crown. Crown guard. Soldered strap bars. Large hour and minute hands. Large T printed above depth rating to indicate luminous material as tritium.

5517 - Launched in 1971 for the British Marines. Depth rated to 660 ft (200m) with 8mm crown. Crown guard. Crown with triple-lock. Bezel with 60 minute markers. Soldered strap bars. Large hour and minute hands. Large T printed above depth rating to indicate luminous material as tritium.

1680 - Launched in 1966. Depth rated to 660 ft (200m) with 8mm crown. Crown guard. Depth rating printed on dial. Chronometer. New 1575 Chronometer movement with Date. Raised and flat crystal. Submariner printed in red. Updated in 1972. Depth rated to 660 ft (200m) with 8mm crown. Crown guard. Crown with triple-lock. Depth rating printed on dial. Chronometer. 1575 Chronometer movement with Date. Raised and flat crystal. All dial lettering printed in white.

16800 - Launched in 1982. Depth rated to 1000 ft (300m) with 8mm crown. Crown guard. Crown with triple-lock. Depth rating printed on dial. Chronometer. New 3035 Chronometer movement with Date. Low-profile sapphire crystal. All dial lettering printed in white.

[xx007]

very nice photos and detailed information.
well done, many thanks~~

[SPACE-DWELLER]

I would like to add, since it seem to be missing in the above info:

Ref. 168000: marked the change from use of steel 316L to the use of steel 904L.

The Ref. 168000 Sub Date is said to have been manufactured for only about 9 months, btw.

I would like to make a correction of my above statement due to new information provided by Jocke.

The alledged 9 month period of manufacture of the Ref. 168000 (deriving from this article) (http://www.vintagesubmariner.com/vintagesubs.html) is more like 6 months.

The Sumariner ref 168000 was the first one that use the 904L and it was in the middle of 1988.
The next Submariner ref 16610 was released a few months into 1989 so the ref 168000 was
only at the market around 6 months.

Jocke

Thanks for the clarification, Jocke! :thumbsup:

[Brian Burrows]

I have two Red Subs . . . both 2.9 million numbers . . .

The UK one has punched papers, but the Canadian one has 'typewritten' papers

Was this normal?

Any info would be greatly appreciated

Brian

[eparisini]

My 5512 ser. 1.8XX.XXX

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/9231/p1010030av3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[superformance]

Guys, "L series" 5513 was the last of the plastics, right? Have you got any idea how many were made for the 'L"? thanks

[Perdu]

These Subs look fabulous. Nice pictures, guys.

[hflee55]

stunning pics....

[3266]

Sheer Magnetism! :smokin:

[hikart]

Great pics.

Thanks for your info.

[caldoone]

Hey Larry, I'm brand new to the forum so please excuse me if this question is siloly but what do you mean when you said "Most collectors shy away from REDS over 4 mil." Which of the "red" are more collectable. Mine was a graduation gift from my father and I would never sell but I am curious. Mine is a 1680, serial number 3,789,xxx. Thanks!

[caldoone]

Sorry about the quality.

[adam69sun]

This is beautiful shots and highly privileged.

[Tools]

Hey Larry, I'm brand new to the forum so please excuse me if this question is siloly but what do you mean when you said "Most collectors shy away from REDS over 4 mil." Which of the "red" are more collectable. Mine was a graduation gift from my father and I would never sell but I am curious. Mine is a 1680, serial number 3,789,xxx. Thanks!

Beyond 4 mil, authentic reds begin to get scarce, so rather than take a chance at a re-dialed/non-authentic red Sub, collectors simply don't go there.

[arezzo66]

Great thread, very educational :thumbsup:

[T5AUS]

My 1962 5512 gilt dial pointy crown guards Sub, a privilage to be a caretaker of this early classic. :thumbsup:

[bamajoe]

Thanks for all the beautiful pics and info...

[3266]

Butter hook!!!

[slc1310]

Great post and pics ,thanks for the knowledge

[He Man]

thanks for the information.

[1Thunder1]

Here is mine

1982 7.3 mil with MAxi Type V spent it's hole life in Hawaii(now in Boston)

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t11/1thunder/DSCN9648.jpg

[dskjl]

Rolex Submariners (date)

................-under construction-

The following information and photo contributions by Mike:

The 1680 made it's debut circa 1967 with the RED meters first dial.
Latter REDS with feet first began circa 1970,

Hacking is generally felt to have been introduced in the 70 to 71 timeframe as Rolex brought the modification on line, but some crossover exists.

1970 RED 2.5 mil. NON-HACK

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/mike381/facered.jpg


http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/mike381/149_4964.jpg

Most collectors shy away from REDS over 4 mil.

Additionally, FEET FIRST dials had several different style fonts,

Note: Photo credit Bernard,

1970-72ish, opens 6s

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/mike381/Rolex1680RedHans3-1.jpg

72-73ish, semi-open--NOTEWORTHY, some feel these were Beyeler dials made in the 3 to 3.5 mil range,

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/mike381/RedBeyelerDetail.jpg

73-74--closed 6s

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/mike381/BBRolex1680closed.jpg

The white came circa 1975 though many have noted finding one in this serial number range is a challenge. Some speculate the 1680 was made in very few numbers from circa 75-77 for what ever reason.
Most seem to fall into a serial number range after 77-78.

Mine, both 5 mils, circa 1978-79,

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/mike381/DSC00316850-1.jpg

A luminova replacement dial,

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/mike381/151_5183.jpg

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/mike381/31glo.jpg

May I also submit the reference 16800?

Making it's debut circa 1979-1980, the reference 16800 introduced several new features.
The first diver to have a 3035 fast beat movement. It also was the first to feature a true quick-set date, uni-directional ratching bezel, sapphire crystal, metal pearl cup, and of course an increased depth rating to 300 meters.

Early versions had a matt dial sans WG surrounds, while later versions came with a gloss dial with WGs (circa 1985)

Mine circa 1980,

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/mike381/150_5010-50-1.jpg

Links:

http://www.doubleredseadweller.com/rs1.htm

http://www.doubleredseadweller.com/rs2.htm

I have a 16800 with the mat dial and the bezel only turns counter clockwise is this normal? serial number 7.2xetc...

[dskjl]

I have a 16800 with the mat dial and the bezel only turns counter clockwise is this normal? serial number 7.2xetc...

[mike]

I have a 16800 with the mat dial and the bezel only turns counter clockwise is this normal? serial number 7.2xetc...

Yes. Among other things the 16800 introduced the 120 click unidirectional bezel.

[Lol-x]

What's the deal some 'reds' look like they have white paint underneath 'submariner' and some look like they don't just solid red 'submariner' ???

[HunterST]

This place is like Wikipedia - incredible info. Thanks again.

[andrew_uzio]

Beautiful watches. Any idea why Rolex decided to release a red version, but stopped?

[everose]

I have a newer "M"series" but i much prefer the matte dial finish....and i think it is much more practical as a dive watch.It causes far less reflection when submerged....particularly important as Rolex do not like to use AR coatings.

Rolex....please re-issue the matte dial sub!!!!!!...

[allenlau2000]

Dang, those are so nice.. I need to do more studying on these. I had been offered a vintage submariner (cant recall which model) for around HKD$30,000 or USD$3,850.. Didn't know what to look for and just wasn't sure about it back then.. He keeps on telling me I missed out..

Im sure the ones in the above pics should go for much higher..

There's so much info here I keep on logging in while I'm at work...

[sea-dweller]

Great info and photos here !!!

[Najdorf]

Hi,
Been reading this forum with interest. Great pictures and a wealth of info guys, however I've not seen the answer to my Rolex conundrum! I hope someone can shed some light:

I've attached a picture of my '72 (3.2m serial) red sub which is odd because it doesn't have a date bubble.

Apologies for the poor photo by the way, if there is any interest in the watch I can take a better photo.

[T5AUS]

Hi,
Been reading this forum with interest. Great pictures and a wealth of info guys, however I've not seen the answer to my Rolex conundrum! I hope someone can shed some light:

I've attached a picture of my '72 (3.2m serial) red sub which is odd because it doesn't have a date bubble.

Apologies for the poor photo by the way, if there is any interest in the watch I can take a better photo.

Naj, I thinks it's just a question of a replaced glass but I am no expert. Try posting this question in the general vintage Rolex section, not too muny people come into this "room" :thumbsup:

[Aitken-Smith]

Thank you for all the information gentlemen. Larry is clearly a font of knowledge and the information he provides is at the hadron collider end of the spectrum. flylsley blomshall, regards Stephen

[alby.bda]

this is my 1680 and 5513