My Early 60s Submariner

[60s_Sub]

My grandfather bought this overseas in 1967 and I got it on my 18th birthday. Not positive but it is either a 5512 or 5513. The original band was stolen years ago but my parents replaced it with a more recent Oyster band. Just had it serviced and the watch runs perfectly. One question.....I notice that this one does not have "SWISS" marked at the bottom. Does anyone know why? Or does anyone have one without the "SWISS" on theirs?
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j202/willliam87/DSC_0003.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j202/willliam87/DSC_0001.jpg

[60s_Sub]

My grandfather bought this overseas in 1967 and I got it on my 18th birthday. Not positive but it is either a 5512 or 5513. The original band was stolen years ago but my parents replaced it with a more recent Oyster band. Just had it serviced and the watch runs perfectly. One question.....I notice that this one does not have "SWISS" marked at the bottom. Does anyone know why? Or does anyone have one without the "SWISS" on theirs?
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j202/willliam87/DSC_0003.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j202/willliam87/DSC_0001.jpg

[padi56]

Your pictures are very poor but your watch should have Swiss >T25 or T Swiss T at the 6 o'clock position perhaps fonts have faded if original dial.

[60s_Sub]

yeah sorry about the bad pictures. while my dad had it he left the crown open a couple times while swimming so maybe it caused the SWISS to fade away because there is no sign of it at the 6 position. and yes its the original dial.

[padi56]

Thats possible perhaps a little water damage but still the dial
/hands are one of the most important things with any vintage watch.And best kept as original as possible most collectors would sooner have a slightly damaged original dial that a modern new replacement.Was your watch serviced by the RSC if so its a wonder they did not want you to change the dial my advise keep it as it is original.

[SLS]

Wow, what a great piece of history to have, Congrats! Any chance of a few better pictures of the dial? Use the macro function (flower button) on your camera. If you remove the bracelet you will find the reference number between the lugs at 12:00 and the serial number at 6:00. That info will help a lot. The insert and hands were replaced, any chance the dial was redone as well? It could be a 5512, but I thought the gilt, minute track dialed 5512's were always meters first, this appears to be feet first. The lack of markings on the dial at the 6:00 is intriguing. To answer your question, I have seen one watch without the "Swiss" on the bottom, but the dial had been redone early in its life!
Scott

[SLS]

Check your post in the vintage froum.
Scott

[mike]

Very hard to tell anything from the pics, but I'd be with Scott that perhaps the dial has been refinished at some point. Gilt should be meters first and at a 67 vintage I would say a 5513.

Better photos would reveal more.:cheers:

[onkyo]

Yes, better photos please.

Esp of dial! Thx.

And of course welcome aboard. :thumbsup:

:cheers:

[60s_Sub]

Here are some better pictures. And I think what happened to the SWISS marking is that the dial is unevenly placed inside the watch. You can kind of tell the outer gold ring on the dial is lower on the bottom of the dial. Not sure if that makes sense but let me know what you think.....
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j202/willliam87/Good1.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j202/willliam87/good.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j202/willliam87/gooo.jpg

[SSD]

Do we know who worked on the watch or did any dial refinishing on it in the past? I am concerned about whoever it was because of the coronet. Here is a link to a site with vintage pics for reference:

http://www.vintagesubmariner.com/gallery.html

Yes, it should have the Swiss markings visible as Padi indicated.

Watchmakers aside, it is wonderful you have a timepiece with such history!!!

[SSD]

Posted in April by T5AUS/ Phil. This is an example of what I am referring to, and why I question the watchmaker's work.

[stevemulholland3]

sorry my friend but your dial is definitely refinished..an original dial with gilt writting would be upwards of 2k for a poor quality one..

[onkyo]

Yes, the dial is definitively refinished.

And it was not done perfectly because of the unevenness at the top and bottom.

The hands are also replacement.

Not that there is anything wrong with that, just the value to collectors goes down significantly.

Most important is that you enjoy the piece. :thumbsup:

:cheers:

[SDDS]

very nice piece...

[peppermannen]

Do we know who worked on the watch or did any dial refinishing on it in the past? I am concerned about whoever it was because of the coronet. Here is a link to a site with vintage pics for reference:

http://www.vintagesubmariner.com/gallery.html

Yes, it should have the Swiss markings visible as Padi indicated.

Watchmakers aside, it is wonderful you have a timepiece with such history!!!

That's a very nice watch, congrats! However, I agree, there's something fishy about that dial. I was looking for a dial for my 1675, and came across this one on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/Rolex-GMT-Master-Ref-1675-Watch-Dial-1960-1977-Vintage_W0QQitemZ370187115652QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWr istwatches?hash=item5630df1c84&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1240|240%3A13 18|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50
Has the same strange-looking coronet. Guess that one too is a bad refinish, or just a fake?

Petter

[T5AUS]

Hi 60's Sub, this comparison side by side shows the difference, sorry mate, but that certainly is a re touched dial. The hands look as though they have been re lumed too. Still, since it was a gift from your grandfather you should cherish it, it's still an iconic piece and who knows, you might be able to find a good original period dial for it some day, they do appear from time to time. What serial no does it have and do you have any photo's of the movement. :cheers:

[DelightfullyRaging]

Its still something to treasure, no matter what

[CKLinLA]

Its a great watch to keep and enjoy - all the more special since it has family history. I am a 'brand new'Sub owner myself - and chose a 14060 (no date) partly because of its similarity in looks to your watch.

On your Q about whether it is a model 5513 or 5512, you should see the serial number and model number when you remove the bracelet. They are on the casing under the two end-pieces of the bracelet at the 6 and 12 positions.

You can do this yourself. I find that using a sharp wooden toothpick to push in the pins is a good option if you do not have the proper tools (and assuming the pins are not 'stuck' in place due to the watch's age). A wooden tooth pick will assure that you do not add any scratches to the watch if your hand slips.