1974 red sub advice

[fatbaster102]

Hi all,

I need some advice on a 1974 red sub which I am planning to buy. The asking price is around USD$8500. But not sure if 1974 red sub is real.. Read couple sites indicates red sub only made it through 1973 yet there are sites that shows advertisement up to 1980.

The wrist band does show 9513 with a end piece of 280 which matches the red sub band... but the dial is something I am not too sure on...

I look at the dial but the patina seems too yellowish.....

Also, a question on the CAL 1570 26J movement. When you turn the hand movement counter clock does the "second" hand jump backward by about 5 sec as well? And what does 26J mean?


Your advice is valuable. Thanks!!

[Clay]

There are plenty of people here more knowledgeable then I am but I'll try and help....
In regard to the year.....Only Rolex knows for sure when the last Red Sub was issued and they aren't telling......'73 seems to be the commonly accepted cut off for Red 1680's but I have seen two authentic examples over the years that go a bit beyond that date.....
Unfortunately there's no real answer to that question....But I will say this.....The watch you buy today, may indeed be the watch you have to sell tomorrow......And it will always be more difficult to sell a watch that you have to make excuses for...ie. the year it was produced and it's authenticity........
The hand jumping back is common to vintage watches.....My 1665 was recently service by Rolex Geneva and it does the same thing.....No worries there.....
The patina on the dial looks fine...as to whether it's a real Red dial or an over paint of a white 1680, hard to say.......I would venture to say that only Rolex can tell you.....I've seen some very very knowledgeable people get fooled by these.....
If you're not sure, keep looking...Red subs aren't that hard to find.......I hope this helped...
Good luck....
C

[fatbaster102]

Clay,

Thank you for sharing and it is definite very helpful. Although I won't sell if I found a red sub but if I do than your comment of making excuses is right on the money.

Thanks! again.

[stevestrh]

second hand jumps on mine after service by rolex

[eparisini]

Relumed dial IMHO

[Poohsan]

- I believe that a 1974 Sub came with a folded bracelet model number 9315. The end links would have been 380 or 280. The images you posted look like a 93150 bracelet.

- The hands do not look original. Color looks fake patina. The thickness of the boarders is off the hands look to flat with minimal or now crowning.

- Crystal has been over polished and will need to be replaced.

- Dial looks odd. I’m not sure if it is real or has been redone.

Overall I’ve seen better reds for less in the current market.

[fatbaster102]

Great feedback thank you all!!

Any recomendation on where I can find an authentic red sub around $8k?

[DadsWatch72]

:lol: 8K

[eparisini]

Who has VG 1680 red all original keeps for $8k

[marke]

i think the price needs to be looked at especially in the current climate

i would value that piece at £4500 - £5000 the vaule would be higher if the watch was complete with everything and i mean everything...

[SLS]

Well the closed 6 on the 660 ft is correct for a 1974 1680 and the patina on the hands & dial looks uniform.
Couple of questions/concerns though:
What is the serial # of this watch.
What does the case back stamp say beneath 1680, it should give a quarter & a year.
The bracelet is not a 9315, it is a newer 93150 replacement.
I am guessing the end links are 593 or 580, not 280 or 380.
The movement should not be a non hacking, at least not on a 1680 from 1974. This would be correct on an earlier 1680 from around 1970 & earlier.

Things are not adding up in my book, is the seller legit and someone who you trust?
Scott

[bagel]

The dial looks fine to me for the last batch of 1680 red with closed "6".

[DadsWatch72]

I have a 9315 band with 285 end links.

[stevemulholland3]

sorry guys but that dial looks like a fake I have seen being passed around the last few weeks.
it already burned two dealers who couldnt tell it was fake until they recieved it..
I will see if either of them saved a picture of it but the coronet and a few other tiny details are suspect..

[SLS]

Wow Steve, I just looked again more closely and it appears that the "Submariner" printing gets smaller going from left to right. Scary stuff out there.
Scott

[fatbaster102]

Scott,

What is the serial # of this watch.
****Was told around 4.4mil
What does the case back stamp say beneath 1680, it should give a quarter & a year.
****Didn't ask to look at the case back.

Thanks for valuable feedback... Another lesson learned!!

[SLS]

Scott,

What is the serial # of this watch.
****Was told around 4.4mil
What does the case back stamp say beneath 1680, it should give a quarter & a year.
****Didn't ask to look at the case back.

Thanks for valuable feedback... Another lesson learned!!

4.4 dates the watch to 1976, run & run fast! That is well outside of the acceptable dates for a Red Sub. If this is an Internet listing, I would report it to the watch out section of this forum.
Scott

[mike]

Scott,

What is the serial # of this watch.
****Was told around 4.4mil
What does the case back stamp say beneath 1680, it should give a quarter & a year.
****Didn't ask to look at the case back.

Thanks for valuable feedback... Another lesson learned!!

4.4 mil. would indicate a recase to me. I agree with Steve about the dial. IMHO there are better values for the price asked.:cheers:

[springer]

I agree with Steve. The dial is counterfeit.

4.4 million serial number is a replacement case from Rolex. I doubt that watch was ever a red Sub as there is no way to tell by that serial number.

Personally, I believe someone put the fake dial on it to snag an unwary buyer, which is usually the case.

[lobo58]

Hey! Give our Italian friend, Eparisini some props! He spotted the iffy relume right out of the gate.

[marke]

its a shame, because 1680 reds are beautiful...

[babylon]

for comparison, check this out where I bought my watch over the counter.
http://www.brisbanevintagewatches.com/watch/viewprod.php?id=1764

[DadsWatch72]

sorry guys but that dial looks like a fake I have seen being passed around the last few weeks.
it already burned two dealers who couldnt tell it was fake until they recieved it..
I will see if either of them saved a picture of it but the coronet and a few other tiny details are suspect..

Nice catch Steve.

[fatbaster102]

You all are wonderful giving me so much feedback and lesson. Truely appreciated.

[Aston]

4.4XX S/N is too high for an MK4 dial (closed 6).

The hands don't match with the (relumed) dial. The bezel seems also not to be original.
Concerning the movement, "26J" means "26 JEWELS". The fact that the second hand jump is correct.

One last think you can check is the inside of the caseback: it should indicate the quarter/year of the watch.

But my advice would not to go with this one, there's too many weird things on it.

:cheers:

[fatbaster102]

"the quarter/year of the watch"
What is a quarter/year?

[Aston]

"the quarter/year of the watch"
What is a quarter/year?

For instance IV/70, or III/73...

[springer]

4.4XX S/N is too high for an MK4 dial (closed 6).

The hands don't match with the (relumed) dial. The bezel seems also not to be original.
Concerning the movement, "26J" means "26 JEWELS". The fact that the second hand jump is correct.

One last think you can check is the inside of the caseback: it should indicate the quarter/year of the watch.

But my advice would not to go with this one, there's too many weird things on it.

:cheers:

Read the posts please. That is a replacement case. Who knows when it was replaced. 4.4 serial numbers are replacement cases.

[maverick]

Scott,

What is the serial # of this watch.
****Was told around 4.4mil
What does the case back stamp say beneath 1680, it should give a quarter & a year.
****Didn't ask to look at the case back.

Thanks for valuable feedback... Another lesson learned!!

It is an autherntic red 1680 type 5 dial (IMHO) with a re-case, too bad. I bought a red 1680 once with a beautiful dial with open 6s but it too was a re-case; I got rid of it for what I paid (6K) and was lucky to get that.

However the dial is valuable. I doubt it's worth 8K in parts. =) maverick

'Correct' type 5 red sub dial and they look identical to me or it's the best fake I have ever seen.(left large pic. - original one posted on the right.)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v669/dennisaa/Sub5.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v669/dennisaa/Rolexforums1680a.jpg

[fatbaster102]

Aston,

Does the quater/year need to match the SN# year?

Thanks!

[GBJIV]

Technically it would match - but, probably only match on the Rolex side. The quarter the watch was produced is listed first Q1, Q2, QIII, QIV and then the year. Probably hard to tie the actual serial number to the quarter specifically as I am not sure I have ever seen that detailed data - however, the serial numbers do seem to help in determining the year pretty well.

The thought here I believe is that - during this time - the quarter was used to describe the year. If that was missing - you would have another piece of the puzzle from this time period not matching up.

Hope you find your Red Sub. They are amazing watches

[Aston]

Read the posts please. That is a replacement case. Who knows when it was replaced. 4.4 serial numbers are replacement cases.

That's what I did, thanks for your "advice".

I didn't mentionned that it was an original case, just that the S/N doesn't match with the dial, so that was a negative point.

[Aston]

Technically it would match - but, probably only match on the Rolex side. The quarter the watch was produced is listed first Q1, Q2, QIII, QIV and then the year. Probably hard to tie the actual serial number to the quarter specifically as I am not sure I have ever seen that detailed data - however, the serial numbers do seem to help in determining the year pretty well.

The thought here I believe is that - during this time - the quarter was used to describe the year. If that was missing - you would have another piece of the puzzle from this time period not matching up.

Hope you find your Red Sub. They are amazing watches

:thumbsup: