Early 70s Tudor DS&S

[jwludyka]

Hello everyone,

Loving all the information on the forum. Wondering if you can help me identify this watch that I recently picked up on ebay. I am a bit newer to the vintage watch world, particularly Rolex and Tudor, but have really been enjoying wearing these older dress watches in the 33-34mm size. What particularly drew me to this watch is the inscription on the back; I love that these vintage watches have had their own lives.

If anyone knows anything about what the model or history of these watches may be, I'd appreciate it. I found a few that were similar online, but there didn't seem to be much detailed information about them. Given the DS&S and also googling the company in the inscription, it looks like this watch was born and lived in the UK.

Best,
J

[offrdmania]

My concern is that the case back isnt stamped Tudor. It may be a recase or a boutique made piece.

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

My concern is that the case back isnt stamped Tudor. It may be a recase or a boutique made piece.

Occam's razor says the caseback is good. Who would go to the bother of making such an elaborate engraving otherwise?

[Old Expat Beast]

An in-focus photo of the caseback with stamps and hallmarks clearly visible would help.

[offrdmania]

Originally Posted by zapokee

Occam's razor says the caseback is good. Who would go to the bother of making such an elaborate engraving otherwise?

I never said the case wasnt good. I said it doesnt look like it was made by Tudor. It could be a boutique made watch where a generic case was used and the Tudor movement was fitted to it.

*UPDATE* I just found the original listing for the watch and my suspicions were correct. The case is Shackford and Sons and not Tudor.

"Tudor Rolex 9ct gold gents watch c.1969. Solid 9ct gold case made by Shackford and Sons (signed DS&S), hallmarked 9ct London 1969"

[Old Expat Beast]

Cases on these British-sold 9ct Tudors from the 60s are often stamped either Dennison or Rolex, too. Shackford was likely just another domestic UK supplier of Tudor's cases for a while.

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

I never said the case wasnt good. I said it doesnt look like it was made by Tudor. It could be a boutique made watch where a generic case was used and the Tudor movement was fitted to it.

*UPDATE* I just found the original listing for the watch and my suspicions were correct. The case is Shackford and Sons and not Tudor.

"Tudor Rolex 9ct gold gents watch c.1969. Solid 9ct gold case made by Shackford and Sons (signed DS&S), hallmarked 9ct London 1969"

Nice sleuthing. This is why we love the hobby.

[Old Expat Beast]

Actually it should be Shackman, not Shackford...as in David Shackman & Sons


"Shackman made a variety of dress watch cases for both Tudor and Rolex during the 1950s and 1960s."

https://www.blackbough.co.uk/product...-1965-wwtrgw1/

[jwludyka]

You guys are good! It was very difficult to get a good quality photo with my phone in the watchmaker's office this morning. Luckily she's running great, but the back was only off for a bit. Couldn't really get a good picture, but I wrote down what was on the back case.

DS&S
37087
9 375 (then two very small logos)

[Old Expat Beast]

9 and 375 mean it's 9ct gold.

One stamp will be an anchor, rose, castle or leopard, depending on the assay office (Birmingham, Shefield, Edinburgh, London). Idententify that and you can Google search for the stamped letter or symbol. I’m guessing you have an anchor then T or U.

You might need a strong magnifier.

[jwludyka]

Thanks. Found this about DS&S

At the top is “DS & S”, which was the sponsor’s mark of David Shackman & Sons. Based in Chesham, Buckinghamshire, Shackman was an independent case making concern that supplied its products to most of the major Swiss houses for use on their watches that were to be sold in the UK. Experienced collectors will have encountered Shackman cases on Omega, Jaeger Le Coultre and more commonly, Rolex models from this era. Gold Swiss watches sold in Europe tended to have Swiss made cases, but those supplied to the British market were invariably equipped with UK made housings. This state of affairs came about after the ban on the import of precious metal into the UK imposed by the British government in December 1916. Needing to service their most lucrative market, the Swiss houses skirted the obstacle by shipping only uncased movements to their UK agents and having these housed in British made cases upon arrival, these of course not being subject to any restriction. Long after the ban was lifted, this same arrangement continued, basically because it was so convenient for all involved. Ironically given that they were first used as a temporary stopgap in a crisis, the quality of British made cases proved to be so high that they now typically command a slight price premium over their Swiss equivalents.