All blue GMT fake

[springer]

Originally Posted by RolexPassion

or must find a person who worked in Singer in that years maybe can tell us if they made it or not ......

Good point, but Rolex is the final authority - not Singer. Rolex can clean up this mess if they so desire and no one else. At this point, it is very prima facie that the blue inserts are a figment of someone's imagination concerning the inserts association with Rolex.

My last comment would be who decided the Singer company, which made dials for Rolex, also made bezel inserts for Rolex? (I'm not sure Singer is even in business anymore.)

[springer]

I can't help you with whether Singer was bought-out by Rolex.

[sillo]

Originally Posted by springer

I'm not sure Singer is even in business anymore.

Is that one of the companies that Rolex acquired as they became more and more vertically integrated?

[TimeLord2]

Originally Posted by sillo38

Is that one of the companies that Rolex acquired as they became more and more vertically integrated?

Singer, as I understand it, made dials for Rolex. I did not know they made inserts for Rolex too.

[Filipão]

What a soap-opera...

Glad I've been careful and never had any "new money". Or any money at all!

[sillo]

Originally Posted by TimeLord2

Singer, as I understand it, made dials for Rolex. I did not know they made inserts for Rolex too.

I knew about the dials and can't comment on the inserts. Just curious if that's one of the many contractors Rolex has gobbled up over the years.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by springer

"Almost doesn't matter if they're real or not," isn't quite right Aaron. It makes a significant difference if they are real, genuine Rolex inserts. At this time, Rolex is the only entity that can verify their authenticity, and they aren't talking. Unless someone files a civil or fraudulent criminal complaint - and forces Rolex's hand, they will forever be "a bezel insert with a story."

Yes, agreed, I didn't mean it literally. It would be great if we knew for sure someday. I just meant the authenticity of these inserts will always be questioned, whether they're real or not.

[exador]

I would like to invite Jacek to this thread to tell us where HQ Milton source all their Blueberrys from (seeing as he doesn't work there any more)

https://www.rolexforums.com/search.p...rchid=24938272

[Juhuatai]

Originally Posted by exador

I would like to invite Jacek to this thread to tell us where HQ Milton source all their Blueberrys from (seeing as he doesn't work there any more)

https://www.rolexforums.com/search.p...rchid=24938272

I mean they probably get them from people wanting to sell them. I doubt Jacek has a hidden stash of blueberry inserts....

[79280_116520]

Originally Posted by exador

I would like to invite Jacek to this thread to tell us where HQ Milton source all their Blueberrys from (seeing as he doesn't work there any more)

Or Scott (the other partner)....

[BigBlue1]

I am kind of surprised that some of the big players haven’t made them selves available to comment.

[sillo]

Originally Posted by BigBlue1

I am kind of surprised that some of the big players haven’t made them selves available to comment.

They're probably keeping quiet in hopes this will blow over.

[Filipão]

Originally Posted by sillo38

They're probably keeping quiet in hopes this will blow over.

It won't. This has affected the vintage community irreversibly, who can we trust now?

[canadianswiss]

Originally Posted by BigBlue1

I am kind of surprised that some of the big players haven’t made them selves available to comment.

There is nothing they could say right now.
I am sure their position is “let’s wait and see”.




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[sillo]

Originally Posted by Filipão

It won't.

I hope it doesn't. I just think we're never actually going to get the concrete answer. The people who sold them won't admit fault and the naysayers won't accept them until Rolex makes a statement. The chances of a statement from them are slim to none.

[79280_116520]

Originally Posted by sillo38

I hope it doesn't. I just think we're never actually going to get the concrete answer. The people who sold them won't ever admit fault and the naysayers won't accept them until Rolex makes a statement. The chances of a statement from them are slim to none.

Unless the buyers are able to return the “questionable” blueberries back to those “trusted” dealers at original cost, I don’t see how “trusted” the dealers will be.

[sillo]

Originally Posted by 79280_116520

Unless the buyers are able to return the “questionable” blueberries back to those “trusted” dealers at original cost, I don’t see how “trusted” the dealers will be.

Should they be able to return them without absolute and unequivocal evidence that proves they're bogus?

[Showcall]

hmm, as I said none of those San FRAN watches had UAE dials and the UAE is part of the myth.

[canadianswiss]

Originally Posted by Filipão

It won't. This has affected the vintage community irreversibly, who can we trust now?

I trust myself, my knowledge, and Mr. X.

:):)


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[canadianswiss]

Originally Posted by sillo38

Should they be able to return them without absolute and unequivocal evidence that proves they're bogus?

I has been always up the seller to prove authenticity and provenance.

I mean, you do not go to the art gallery and the merchant tells you “well, you have to prove to me that Picasso is real!”
That’s just silly.

:):)


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[Filipão]

Not a Soap Opera anymore, it's real life hell, considering the values involved.

[Boaters]

A very interesting thread .. But I would consider JP's words as gospel ... Just Saying ...

[Filipão]

Originally Posted by Boaters

A very interesting thread .. But I would consider JP's words as gospel ... Just Saying ...

Yes, another Guardian Angel Springer.

[jfmiii]

Originally Posted by Filipão

Yes, another Guardian Angel Springer.

The fact that he doesn’t sell them tells me all I need to know. John was very helpful in giving advice to me when I was looking for a 16750. There is nobody in the hobby who knows more about GMTs.

[Filipão]

Originally Posted by jfmiii

The fact that he doesn’t sell them tells me all I need to know. John was very helpful in giving advice to me when I was looking for a 16750. There is nobody in the hobby who knows more about GMTs.

Money and passion cannot run alongside.

From the little I've seen Springer is a true aficionado.

[RolexPassion]

are you joking ?

everybody know ...

Singer was bought from Rolex in the 90's and so Rolex started to produce dials and bezels inside ......

[RolexPassion]

Originally Posted by swish77

Yes, agreed, I didn't mean it literally. It would be great if we knew for sure someday. I just meant the authenticity of these inserts will always be questioned, whether they're real or not.

it would make no sense ...
if they have asked for a proof of production from Singer and then decided not to sell them in their network stores they must not respond to the public of anything, on their part there is no fraud.

What people here are forgetting and which is very important, is that none of the sellers (as far as I know ) has ever told them that these watches came out with the BLUE bezels directly from Rolex and that they were the first equipment. All them (i believe ) have always been informed that the blue Bezel was a prototype or test sample never commercialized, so it is not so implicit that not only Rolex but also dealers should be liable for any fraud or reimbursement.
An opinion from the rolex or Singer could certainly help, but if it were legal, it is understood that all customers in buying these bezels accepted a percentage of the benefit of the doubt, and that even if no other bezel is marked Rolex anywhere and they were produced by external suppliers, so it would be a very difficult thing.

We have already seen in recent years causes of famous people who have brought famous sellers to court perhaps for a much more important non-original dial or only partially restored or not mounted in the case of the right period, so imagine how few arguments you have to hang on to the fact whether a bezel is recognized or not by Rolex.

For me it is different, if a seller told the customer a lot of lies (like if was from a military man and that he was always with the Blue bezel) then the less experienced customer could also ask for a refund and put them in the good sense of the two people get to a solution (maybe another watch in partial replacement) but if the customer is an expert and he bought in the last 4 years (when everyone already knew the mystery attracts these bezels) and therefore accepting a percentage of risk implicit in the word "prototype" or "sample test never produced and marketed" then in this case I think that there is a minimum of complicity and awareness and if you were convinced in the last few years that it was good, you have to fool yourself now with the voices made by Orcs etc. etc.

[RolexPassion]

Originally Posted by sillo38

Should they be able to return them without absolute and unequivocal evidence that proves they're bogus?

exactly

here all are very fast and easy to blame and cause great trouble, then maybe in 6 months something comes out that proves they are all true, prices are doubled and maybe those who took them back all sold them out quickly at low price for find some money , so afterwards everyone would be unhappy, both the resellers and the customers who wanted them at all costs to give back ... And after all those that speak very easy here, don't reimburse them for the damages of their unjustified vent expressed on the forums

[Wahlberg]

The funniest thing is all these blueberry watches are the best of the 1675s available looking at the dial, hands, bracelet, ...

Originally Posted by Filipão

It won't. This has affected the vintage community irreversibly, who can we trust now?

I have made my opinion (I'm with most of you) but the prices of these dials will stay the same and won't dip, at all. Who is going to read all this? The 1% and that's it. Auction houses won't change their opinion and will keep pushing these watches.

[RolexPassion]

Originally Posted by canadianswiss

I has been always up the seller to prove authenticity and provenance.

I mean, you do not go to the art gallery and the merchant tells you “well, you have to prove to me that Picasso is real!”
That’s just silly.

:):)


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wrong ,

for example many of us buy a good Newman because know how is made, have the step, type of buffer etc ...

and never you ask to the seller "proof to me with a Rolex certificate this PN is genuine dial "

obviously must be genuine , but you don't ask a Rolex paper when is written