I need help. Missing Serial

[SaintMickey]

Originally Posted by bmedia

quite a strange comment?

Like i said earlier i don't want to do anything that will incriminate the dealer until they have had their say. I just want some advice on what to do.

However, i have checked the 6 marker and it is 100% removed.

What watch is it? What year of production? Any pics?

[BMedia]

Originally Posted by Al1969

What do the documents show? Did you get it with box & papers?

I have all the documents

including original tags, receipts and card receipts from the chap that bought it before me. I even have the window display.

The watch was even known to the dealer I bought from as he had previously dealt with owner.

[BMedia]

Originally Posted by Goochy

You any “everything checked out beautifully” but you didn’t check the serial number? Surely this is a basic check.

By no means am I an expert. I asked all the questions, including to this forum and no one told me there was anything between the lugs or to look there. I was under the impression that the serial was inside the watch.

My papers said the serial number.

I have dated receipts and bills of sale which have it all logged and attached to the watch and even card receipts for the business which was located locally to me which originally sold the watch.

The dealer who sold it to me is also incredibly well respected and gave me no reason to believe it was anything less than described.

[Mendota]

I might be completely misremembering, but didn't grey dealers remove the serial numbers back in 2001 and 2002 or so? I remember looking at Rolexes on both Pacific Time and Atlantic Time back in 2002 and I seem to remember that being mentioned in the FAQ section where it discussed them being genuine and brand new with tags and booklets but with no box, no serials and no RSC warranty. They offered their own warranty to match what Rolex was offering and provided their own box.

Maybe I'm totally wrong and it was just the warranty and box that wasn't provided.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by OrangeSport

Just a thought, are service cases / replacement cases stamped?

If it's a real deal Rolex service replacement Mid-case.
Yes they are always stamped with a serial number which follows the watch throughout the Rolex system.

The OP may be mistaken about it being removed and it may also be a non genuine Mid-case which opens another avenue for complications and liabilities.

The OP really needs to get out of this one unless they have a solid fall back position.
But it looks like they've paid their money so they will need to be rather deft at handling this with the vendor in order to salvage something out of the deal

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by Mendota

I might be completely misremembering, but didn't grey dealers remove the serial numbers back in 2001 and 2002 or so? I remember looking at Rolexes on both Pacific Time and Atlantic Time back in 2002 and I seem to remember that being mentioned in the FAQ section where it discussed them being genuine and brand new with tags and booklets but with no box, no serials and no RSC warranty. They offered their own warranty to match what Rolex was offering and provided their own box.

Maybe I'm totally wrong and it was just the warranty and box that wasn't provided.

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It all sounds pretty dodgy to me.
I've never heard of this practice before and I've never bought a used watch without absolutely everything being in order with the watch even if there's no box or papers.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by BMedia

I bought it from a shop, hence why I am going back Wednesday to see them.

Good luck with everything.
Are you hoping to extricate yourself from the deal?

[SaintMickey]

Originally Posted by Mendota

I might be completely misremembering, but didn't grey dealers remove the serial numbers back in 2001 and 2002 or so? I remember looking at Rolexes on both Pacific Time and Atlantic Time back in 2002 and I seem to remember that being mentioned in the FAQ section where it discussed them being genuine and brand new with tags and booklets but with no box, no serials and no RSC warranty. They offered their own warranty to match what Rolex was offering and provided their own box.

Maybe I'm totally wrong and it was just the warranty and box that wasn't provided.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

100%
Thats why many of them Joma, Authentic Watches etc say - "With Manufacturer Serial Numbers" now. Why would they have to have that as the FIRST thing they say after Free Shipping...

There was a time for sure when some removed the serial numbers. But we have no idea because OP won't share pics of anything or tell us the model or year or...

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by BMedia

By no means am I an expert. I asked all the questions, including to this forum and no one told me there was anything between the lugs or to look there. I was under the impression that the serial was inside the watch.

My papers said the serial number.

I have dated receipts and bills of sale which have it all logged and attached to the watch and even card receipts for the business which was located locally to me which originally sold the watch.

The dealer who sold it to me is also incredibly well respected and gave me no reason to believe it was anything less than described.

You couldn't have asked all the questions about the potential location of the serial number, otherwise I'm confident someone would've told you about it.
Any way, the later watches are stamped on the Rehaut, whilst earlier watches are between the lugs.

[BMedia]

Originally Posted by Dirt

Good luck with everything.
Are you hoping to extricate yourself from the deal?

Thanks!

To be honest I was hoping that someone here would go...

"you can send it back to rolex for verification at the dealers expense and if it passes all is good pal!"

However, it looks like that won't be happening.

I am actually gutted.

[Wobbly]

Originally Posted by BMedia

Quite a strange comment?

Like I said earlier I don't want to do anything that will incriminate the dealer until they have had their say. I just want some advice on what to do.

However, I have checked the 6 marker and it is 100% removed.

If it’s the watch you bought about 2 years ago, it’s all in your previous posts, watch, dealer, price you paid.

Maybe you should have though before posting.

[SaintMickey]

Originally Posted by Wobbly

If it’s the watch you bought about 2 years ago, it’s all in your previous posts, watch, dealer, price you paid.

Maybe you should have though before posting.

[Oldbigmouth]

Tough situation, I’d be gutted too. The important thing you missed when you purchased the watch was verifying the serial number to the papers. It should be standard practice to verify all pieces of the set when purchasing pre-owned or gray market. Think about it this way, “box & papers” represents about 15 percent of the resale value, so what would a tampered serial be valued at? Personally, I would think that watch holds as much value as a Chinese copy at best.I admire your willingness to protect the seller’s integrity, but any person or dealer would’ve known the serial was tampered with beforehand.

[Old Expat Beast]

This one?

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=712877

[Randy9999]

Originally Posted by Oldbigmouth

Tough situation, I’d be gutted too. The important thing you missed when you purchased the watch was verifying the serial number to the papers. It should be standard practice to verify all pieces of the set when purchasing pre-owned or gray market. Think about it this way, “box & papers” represents about 15 percent of the resale value, so what would a tampered serial be valued at? Personally, I would think that watch holds as much value as a Chinese copy at best.I admire your willingness to protect the seller’s integrity, but any person or dealer would’ve known the serial was tampered with beforehand.

Agree 100%. I understand the motivation for protecting the seller BEFORE your meeting with him/her. However, AFTER your meeting, you really need to decide whether it would serve anyone for you to keep that secret. If it was me, I would go forward with the meeting, get my refund, and then post the whole experience to the "Buyer/Seller Who's Who" section of this forum. I would go out of my way to be fair to the seller, including transcribing their explanation for how it happened without embellishment or editorial. Simply "tell the news" and let others draw their conclusions, pro or con. If you aren't refunded, then the same process of detailing what happened applies, of course.

[SaintMickey]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

This one?

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=712877

If so I'm dumbfounded I was thinking this watch was bough 2 days ago not 2 years ago.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by SaintMickey

If so I'm dumbfounded I was thinking this watch was bough 2 days ago not 2 years ago.

He asked "Because my watch has increased in value, if I hand it back in should I expect a price in reflection of the current market?" so I assume it was a while ago.

[Randy9999]

Originally Posted by SaintMickey

If so I'm dumbfounded I was thinking this watch was bough 2 days ago not 2 years ago.

For what it's worth, I scrolled through your link, found the name of the dealer, Googled that, and came upon a very credible website. I might have trusted this dealer just as the OP did here.

[SaintMickey]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

He asked "Because my watch has increased in value, if I hand it back in should I expect a price in reflection of the current market?" so I assume it was a while ago.

Please change your Avatar to this...even for just a week.

[SaintMickey]

Originally Posted by Randy9999

For what it's worth, I scrolled through your link, found the name of the dealer, Googled that, and came upon a very credible website. I might have trusted this dealer just as the OP did here.

Wasn't my link but yeah I don't think the dealer was shady. Not that efficient or thorough at vetting watches it seems though.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

This one?

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=712877

If it is, I hope that you or the AD that checked it would know that the serial number is only on the outside of the case, between the lugs...not on the rehaut.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by BMedia

Thanks!

To be honest I was hoping that someone here would go...

"you can send it back to rolex for verification at the dealers expense and if it passes all is good pal!"

However, it looks like that won't be happening.

I am actually gutted.

Don't be gutted.
Simply treat it as a learning experience.

From the ensuing posts, it appears you are indeed SOL.
I'll bet you won't do that again
As my old Grandfather used to say " There's no experience like the experience you pay for".
Life is a learning experience

I hope your life journey with the watch is as fulfilling as it should be and that everything works out for you.
My parting advise is to find yourself the very best independent watchmaker you can that has a Rolex parts account and establish a good relationship with them by having it serviced and pressure tested in a timely manner.
On the interim keep the watch clean by simple washing in some dish soap and a light scrub with a soft toothbrush, followed by a thorough rinse under running water and make sure the crown is screwed down.

[mml4]

Originally Posted by dnuggett

If the serial was really removed I wouldn't be able to return that watch fast enough.

Short,sweet and to the point! That watch brings new meaning to the phrase "Damaged Goods".

[SaintMickey]

Ok seriously thinking of OP's situation.

I guess there is no way the seller is going to reimburse anything more than purchase price, right? I mean any price/value increase for the watch in 2 years is kaput?

[Randy9999]

Originally Posted by SaintMickey

Ok seriously thinking of OP's situation.

I guess there is no way the seller is going to reimburse anything more than purchase price, right? I mean any price/value increase for the watch in 2 years is kaput?

I don’t think the seller is obligated to reimburse for secondary market value changes. Conceivably, an item could go down in value just as easily as it could go up. Would the seller then in that case have a leg to stand on if they said, “Well, I’m not going to reimburse you for what you paid because it’s not worth that much anymore”? Basically, in my opinion, the seller should refund what was paid, nothing more, and nothing less. Catching the mistake as soon as possible would have moderated the buyer’s losses. Basically, the fact that it took two years for the buyer to notice means that the buyer will eat those two years of lost gains in this case.

[SaintMickey]

Originally Posted by Randy9999

I don’t think the seller is obligated to reimburse for secondary market value changes. Conceivably, an item could go down in value just as easily as it could go up. Would the seller then in that case have a leg to stand on if they said, “Well, I’m not going to reimburse you for what you paid because it’s not worth that much anymore”? Basically, in my opinion, the seller should refund what was paid, nothing more, and nothing less. Catching the mistake as soon as possible would have moderated the buyer’s losses. Basically, the fact that it took two years for the buyer to notice means that the buyer will eat those two years of lost gains in this case.

Oh I completely agree… I was just thinking with the way prices are going that’s just potentially another bummer. Especially if bought “smart“ two years ago.


Mickey

[Alex71168]

Originally Posted by BMedia

The dealer who sold it to me is also incredibly well respected and gave me no reason to believe it was anything less than described.

Not with me they are not!

[TimeLord2]

Was looking at a watch on EBAY. It looked very nice, hardly worn, but, the serial number had been removed and they were still asking a premium. Nope. Not even at a discount. Too many unanswered questions… You will be lucky to get a refund after 2 years. However, if the establishment is legit you may be in luck to have your original purchase price refunded. I can't see any additional $$ from increased value over this time period. That said, take it to a Rolex Service Center and see what they would do. As BAS suggested, since you have all the original paperwork, they may be able to identify the watch based off the movement number, which is also unique. You may be on the hook for a new mid case as I don't think Rolex will be happy about the missing serial number.

[SaintMickey]

Originally Posted by Alex71168

Not with me they are not!

Yeah its getting harder to hear "well respected" if one sells watches with sn removed or without at least telling the buyer. But then they'd never sell it.

[ltmgeller]

The serial number being removed is a huge red flag. I'd return it as soon as possible.