Subdial (minutes) on Chrono keeps running but Chrono not engaged? Is this an issue?

[Commandopat]

Originally Posted by 8bc8

Was able to speak with one of the watchmakers today. Apparently, the issue is caused by the minute subdial spring not having enough tension, which may cause the hand to keep progressing. This issue has since been addressed on recent production line models, so everyone receiving their watches with the caliber 4401 in recent months shouldn’t have this issue. Moreover, anyone who’s sent their watches in recently should have this new spring and therefore the issue won’t occur again. Hope this helps guys!


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Great info. I got my 26240 almost a year ago but haven’t had any issues, so we’ll see.
Could be more accurate so maybe I’ll send it in to have that addressed and mention this.

[8bc8]

Originally Posted by Commandopat

Great info. I got my 26240 almost a year ago but haven’t had any issues, so we’ll see.
Could be more accurate so maybe I’ll send it in to have that addressed and mention this.

Yep. I got my 26240 back last week and it has the new spring. But my 26420 I sent in last yr probably doesn’t- if the problem happens again you can always send it back


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[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by 8bc8

Was able to speak with one of the watchmakers today. Apparently, the issue is caused by the minute subdial spring not having enough tension, which may cause the hand to keep progressing. This issue has since been addressed on recent production line models, so everyone receiving their watches with the caliber 4401 in recent months shouldn’t have this issue. Moreover, anyone who’s sent their watches in recently should have this new spring and therefore the issue won’t occur again. Hope this helps guys!

Great info, thanks!

[8bc8]

All - will caveat that when I said new models, probably means June or July. I didn’t get a chance to clarify, but I’d assume it would have to be really recent since I got my 26240 in May and it had the old spring.


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[messikens]

Originally Posted by 8bc8

All - will caveat that when I said new models, probably means June or July. I didn’t get a chance to clarify, but I’d assume it would have to be really recent since I got my 26240 in May and it had the old spring.


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Thank you great info! Hope to get it fixed soon

[construda]

Originally Posted by 8bc8

Was able to speak with one of the watchmakers today. Apparently, the issue is caused by the minute subdial spring not having enough tension, which may cause the hand to keep progressing. This issue has since been addressed on recent production line models, so everyone receiving their watches with the caliber 4401 in recent months shouldn’t have this issue. Moreover, anyone who’s sent their watches in recently should have this new spring and therefore the issue won’t occur again. Hope this helps guys!


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Mine was just serviced in March this year for this issue and now it's happening again. It is very slight so far - just a couple degrees off - but noticeable when you reset the chrono it jumps back. That was how it started last time and within a few weeks it got much worse.

[neal.jy]

Originally Posted by 8bc8

Was able to speak with one of the watchmakers today. Apparently, the issue is caused by the minute subdial spring not having enough tension, which may cause the hand to keep progressing. This issue has since been addressed on recent production line models, so everyone receiving their watches with the caliber 4401 in recent months shouldn’t have this issue. Moreover, anyone who’s sent their watches in recently should have this new spring and therefore the issue won’t occur again. Hope this helps guys!


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This is really useful, thanks for sharing!


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[TheHolyLuck]

Thank you very much for sharing. I will send my ROO in 2 weeks with more peace of mind.

[8bc8]

No worries guys. Easy to get frustrated at QC issues considering the price - but I have faith that AP will continue to ensure high quality. Happy Monday from the office!




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[Marinapark]

Originally Posted by 8bc8

All - will caveat that when I said new models, probably means June or July. I didn’t get a chance to clarify, but I’d assume it would have to be really recent since I got my 26240 in May and it had the old spring.


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Mine has issues as well, bought late May.


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[CactusTreeFiddy]

This is not a good look for the 4401

[Henrimontgomery]

4401 has a life expectancy of about 5 years, can stop dead in its tracks for no apparent reason, and isn't really known for time keeping accuracy.

Somehow it feels we here are all beta-testing a new caliber.

[messikens]

Originally Posted by Henrimontgomery

4401 has a life expectancy of about 5 years, can stop dead in its tracks for no apparent reason, and isn't really known for time keeping accuracy.

Somehow it feels we here are all beta-testing a new caliber.

Hey there - not wanting to get into a flaming match but you seem pretty dead set on how horrible AP is now.

Guess just curious as to your basis for the life expectancy part (given that you just bought a ROC less than 2 months ago), as well as time keeping statement

Don't get me wrong - I am upset with mine having issues but I don't make general statements about overall life expectancy...

[Henrimontgomery]

Originally Posted by messikens

Hey there - not wanting to get into a flaming match but you seem pretty dead set on how horrible AP is now.

Guess just curious as to your basis for the life expectancy part (given that you just bought a ROC less than 2 months ago), as well as time keeping statement

Don't get me wrong - I am upset with mine having issues but I don't make general statements about overall life expectancy...

The 5 years life expectancy comes from my friend at AP. This came after my acquisition, when the topic of maintenance was discussed. Previous caliber for 41mm ROC had about 7 years of life in it.

On another side, a colleague of mine had to put her 37mm RO in service as well, after about a year of use. The watch stopped working after the oscillating mass went haywire.

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by Henrimontgomery

The 5 years life expectancy comes from my friend at AP. This came after my acquisition, when the topic of maintenance was discussed. Previous caliber for 41mm ROC had about 7 years of life in it.

Oh, come on with that BS. The F. Piguet 1185 (basis of the AP cal 2385 in the 26331, 26320 etc) was introduced in 1988, I'm sure someone else besides your "friend at AP" would have noticed if they all died for good after 7 years.

[Henrimontgomery]

Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix

Oh, come on with that BS. The F. Piguet 1185 (basis of the AP cal 2385 in the 26331, 26320 etc) was introduced in 1988, I'm sure someone else besides your "friend at AP" would have noticed if they all died for good after 7 years.

You need to check yourself and learn to stop projecting.

[squall1]

Originally Posted by Henrimontgomery

The 5 years life expectancy comes from my friend at AP. This came after my acquisition, when the topic of maintenance was discussed. Previous caliber for 41mm ROC had about 7 years of life in it.

What does that even mean? It needs a service or completely dead? The former seems reasonable, the latter is bs.

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by Henrimontgomery

You need to check yourself and learn to stop projecting.

Thanks for the advice, I guess

[John Doyle]

Originally Posted by DonLee

I don't get it. If it's a common known issue, how has AP not properly fixed it yet

It's OK it's AP, they get away with being a one watch company after discontinuing their other fantastic looking lines like the Jules Audemars and releasing monstrosities like the code + supplying the Renaud et Papi movements to other brands in which they have equity (like RM), as opposed to perfecting the basic movements fitted in their basic ROs.

It's all good :)

[messikens]

Quick update - dropped the watch off at the boutique. Disappointing experience and getting a bit disillusioned by the brand...

Didn't deal with my usual SA but with someone else who was free.

Things that I found were a bit off:
1. Didn't seem to be the first time she saw this problem but no acknowledgement of "we're so sorry but we'll take care of it". Rather more of a "hey it happens and someone didn't tighten something".

2. Said this isn't an issue because this caliber is used even in the 15500... Which isn't true since they are literally two different calibers, given that one is an integrated Chrono. When I mentioned that the feedback was - "oh I thought they were"

3. 4 week turnaround time apparently


Overall - excited to get the watch back since I love it but the shoulder-shrug way of dealing with it was off-putting. I get it, you don't really care but at least pretend you care since you're being paid for it

[In-N-Out]

This is disappointing to hear. I just got my code 11 ss chrono which has a 4401. No issues yet. Got mine in April so before the new springs…

[messikens]

Originally Posted by messikens

Quick update - dropped the watch off at the boutique. Disappointing experience and getting a bit disillusioned by the brand...

Didn't deal with my usual SA but with someone else who was free.

Things that I found were a bit off:
1. Didn't seem to be the first time she saw this problem but no acknowledgement of "we're so sorry but we'll take care of it". Rather more of a "hey it happens and someone didn't tighten something".

2. Said this isn't an issue because this caliber is used even in the 15500... Which isn't true since they are literally two different calibers, given that one is an integrated Chrono. When I mentioned that the feedback was - "oh I thought they were"


3. 4 week turnaround time apparently


Overall - excited to get the watch back since I love it but the shoulder-shrug way of dealing with it was off-putting. I get it, you don't really care but at least pretend you care since you're being paid for it

Well well... quick update : the hand starting moving again recently... time to get it back to the boutique a second time because I cant "unsee" it but it's a bit annoying now... 2nd time for a service in a year to get a movement issue fixed that I feel like is widely enough known / shouldnt occur in the first place

Any thoughts? Anyone have happen this before twice?

[Watchguynyc8300]

Originally Posted by messikens

Well well... quick update : the hand starting moving again recently... time to get it back to the boutique a second time because I cant "unsee" it but it's a bit annoying now... 2nd time for a service in a year to get a movement issue fixed that I feel like is widely enough known / shouldnt occur in the first place

Any thoughts? Anyone have happen this before twice?

Sorry to hear, sounds like based on past couple of months on the forum this his created issues for other folks as well. I’d say you get comfortable with the idea that a decent chunk of their movements will not work properly and / will
Be +/- 20-30 seconds a day. Perhaps frame it as jewelry. They’re quite attractive watches, but the inability to fix a known issue on the 4401 from something as simple as a spring for the minute counter over a 5 YEAR timeframe just speaks to future issues down the road. Also the caliber is super thick compared to other chronos. If you can get past the timekeeping issues would keep if you like the looks!

Also for the person who asked why the CODE chronos don’t have this issue, maybe it’s because a) nobody wears their code chronograph enough to pay attention or notice it or b) it’s so ugly they can’t even bother to look at the minute hand…

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by Watchguynyc8300

Also the caliber is super thick compared to other chronos.

Yeah? 26240ST is thinner than Speedmaster and Overseeas Chrono (by more than a mm), thinner than a 116500 (w/ solid caseback) and with the "super thick" caliber a whopping 0.2mm thicker than a Nautilus chrono. Grand Seiko Tentagraph is 15.3mm (lol). Zenith Defy is the same as the 26240.

The movement itself is 0.17mm thicker than the Patek flyback chrono. Couldn't find what the thickness of the new 4131 is.

The most obvious example for an integrated bracelet chrono that makes the 26240 look fat is the 26331.

[Octagon Guy]

Originally Posted by Watchguynyc8300

Sorry to hear, sounds like based on past couple of months on the forum this his created issues for other folks as well. I’d say you get comfortable with the idea that a decent chunk of their movements will not work properly and / will
Be +/- 20-30 seconds a day. Perhaps frame it as jewelry. They’re quite attractive watches, but the inability to fix a known issue on the 4401 from something as simple as a spring for the minute counter over a 5 YEAR timeframe just speaks to future issues down the road. Also the caliber is super thick compared to other chronos. If you can get past the timekeeping issues would keep if you like the looks!

Also for the person who asked why the CODE chronos don’t have this issue, maybe it’s because a) nobody wears their code chronograph enough to pay attention or notice it or b) it’s so ugly they can’t even bother to look at the minute hand…

Who said CODE didn't have this issue? And one man's meat is another's poison. You might dislike the design but as proven in this forum recently, CODE has it's fair share of fans.

[EEpro]

...

[messikens]

Really don't want to get into a flaming debate on the merits of codes @watchguy or the movement thickness (at the end of the day it's a ROO - so it's kinda moot)

Just looking to share my experience and see if someone else had faced the issue before AGAIN after getting it fixed the first time....

[Octagon Guy]

Originally Posted by messikens

Really don't want to get into a flaming debate on the merits of codes @watchguy or the movement thickness (at the end of the day it's a ROO - so it's kinda moot)

Just looking to share my experience and see if someone else had faced the issue before AGAIN after getting it fixed the first time....

My colleague's Code was sent in twice. So far so good.

[value.target]

Fingers crossed to my APs... How could AP still let these issues happening to their prestigious & high-price watches?

[construda]

Originally Posted by messikens

Really don't want to get into a flaming debate on the merits of codes @watchguy or the movement thickness (at the end of the day it's a ROO - so it's kinda moot)

Just looking to share my experience and see if someone else had faced the issue before AGAIN after getting it fixed the first time....

Yes I did too as I commented above. It's in for service right now