Like Michael Jackson said, "THIS IS IT!"

[bayerische]

Daniel, glad you got out of this ordeal with most of your money, and your watch in your hands and not in this con-mans hands...

However, I would not send him my address... He could try and steal your identity somehow?

These b*st*rds like "Sam" may pretend to be good people but are the scum of the earth. Sending money to Haiti? Maybe, but what does that help you or any other hard working cash earning people actually contributing to society, and getting ripped off by him?

He put it as if it was his right to take your watch since you were "foolish" enough to send it to him in the first place. I don't think he did you any favors, he made you a thicker skin, and made it harder for you to trust people. In many ways these scam artists are like terrorists, they make our day to day lives more difficult.

[BASSETHOUNDS]

Seems like a "close call" at times you just need that little bit of luck . Next time check all this before sending the watch off . The only thing this scammer can be credited with is that indeed you learned a valuable lesson . Live is like poker , you pay to learn .
Somehow I wouldn't believe that this low life had any remorse and let you off because you didn't use bad language and you are a college student . This guy just weighed off the risk of going to collect it or not , knowing you were on to him . He just didn't take the risk of being met by detectives at collection . I would be very surprised that he will ever send you the 100 usd . The guy was just talking that way to keep his pride : He didn't want to admit you beat him ( well , you stopped him ) and so he turned it around by saying that he likes you and let you off . More bull , from a pro bullsh...

[Desperado]

Dan, very good story and I am really happy that you got the watch back in place. anyways it is a lesson for you (a bit hard but went out nice at the end).
Also I liked very much your writing style, it made me feel as if i am reading a book :) especially the last phone call bit (i even visualised it in my head :)

[Earl Camembert]

Originally Posted by JP500

No offense, but law enforcement -- not even federal -- will not pursue this.

No offense; I have had five cars and eight police officers converge on a 7-11 when a grown man confronted my juvenile son; this with in 10 minuets. I interjected my person in place of my son and the perpetrator withdrew and called the police. Two of the police officer were undercover so police involvement can be quick and massive.

Wait outside of the UPS store and confront the milquetoast; if he had the courage he would be doing strong arm robberies.

[Porsche]

WOW, I'm GOBSMACKED

What a story.... glad it didn't end in tears, and a BIG + 1 for Oscar

[Clogger]

Glad it worked out in the end and you got the watch back.

Sorry about the loss of the $100 for shipping, but what ever you do, do not give him your address.

Report this to your local authorities as others have mentioned, they may do nothing with the info but at least you will have tried. No doubt the scammer was hoping to get on your good side to perhaps stop you informing the Police.

Thank you for posting the story.

[Prince Tudor]

What a thread!
It's very important to share experiences like this with other members.
Whatever you do, DO NOT GIVE HIM YOUR ADDRESS!!
Take the $100 loss and be thankful it was only that.
And of course, a BIG has to go to Oscar as well

[Earl Camembert]

Originally Posted by Prince Tudor

Whatever you do, DO NOT GIVE HIM YOUR ADDRESS!!

I agree; that would be like clicking the unsubscribe link in a spam e-mail. That just shows them you read spam.

The bank knows where he lives; walk softly and carry a big stick.



Actually you did better than 99 and 44/100% of his marks. I know of only one TRF members that did better; he sent money and watches and the clown had them. He got both back, he had the might of TRF behind him though.

[robertneville]

amazing story. glad everything worked out. i agree i would not give address. can you use a campus mailbox?

[datejust1]

Just wow... I hope everything goes well...

[dockmasterbob]

This is an amazing story Kanger! I'm glad you got your watch back. I too, am a new member here on TRF. I have become addicted to this site. One thing I've learned (and it didn't take long) is that there are many legit honest people on here that go out of their way to give excellent advice and steer others in the right direction. What we learn from TRF is priceless and I'm proud to be a member. And for the scammers out there, I have one thing to say...

[Kanger]

Back to where it belongs: my wrist!

[bodybump]

.

[14060MSUB]

keep it there

[bodybump]

This is one thread that made our minds wide open...There are still more scammers out there...It could be a member of TRF it could be not..remember they do this as a living...Just be aware of your transactions...Do not hesitate to ask our fellow solid sellers questions..they are willing to help also...remember this scammer knows everyone who sells in the forum..and im thinking he can be posting here too...but thats just my hunch...just be very very careful.

[Porsche]

Yes, many lessons for all of us...

Maybe as a group we could use this information to weed out unscrupulous buyers/sellers who may lurk...

- OP (Kanger) says he recieved a phone call (not a query through TRF or a PM)
- Maybe a "rule" that only contact should be through TRF (like eBay have)
- If somene is crooked, we would all soon know about it and can have a thread similar to "Watchout"
- If they just re-register a fresh username each time for a new scam, mods would quickly identify recurring IP addresses (as they do with trolls)

Not a failsafe system, but could reduce the number of attempted rip-offs without much effort on our part?

Anyway, just some thoughts, I'm sure there are huge "holes" in my strategy

[MikeyTX]

Porsche, don't loose sight of the fact that one can read the entire forum without registering. It is only necessary if one desires to post or send/receive a p-m.

[Porsche]

Hey Michael

Maybe I'm missing something, yes, reading is OK, but if they want to contact you to buy anything, you should be wary of anyone who calls your private number without making it known what their TRF username is.

If you insist on at least first contact via PM, you would know their userame.

Like I said, may be some holes

[bodybump]

some people doesnt have time to register and have no time to be a member i have buyers who have no post on TRF but i consider them legit...Just make sure you receive wire transfer PERIOD nothing else..have it posted on your account before shipping..if his doing paypal make sure to ship on the address paypal is giving you..double check the address do not ship to P.O box always a resident or office address...call the office if there is such name...always cover yourself in every angle...

[Porsche]

Originally Posted by bodybump

some people doesnt have time to register and have no time to be a member i have buyers who have no post on TRF but i consider them legit...Just make sure you receive wire transfer PERIOD nothing else..have it posted on your account before shipping..if his doing paypal make sure to ship on the address paypal is giving you..double check the address do not ship to P.O box always a resident or office address...call the office if there is such name...always cover yourself in every angle...

+ 1

I must agree with Oscar. There is no substitute for doing some due-diliggence

Making this a "nanny-site" would still offer no guarantees of protection against the professional sharks out there.

I am definately going to take Oscars advice every time, as he has more experience in both buying and sellling than most of us, and also has the added "benefit" of the experiences weer have read about, making him exta careful.

Cheers buddy

I'll butt-out now and get back to stuff I know about (which is not much unfortunately)

[bodybump]

Originally Posted by Porsche

+ 1

I must agree with Oscar. There is no substitute for doing some due-diliggence

Making this a "nanny-site" would still offer no guarantees of protection against the professional sharks out there.

I am definately going to take Oscars advice every time, as he has more experience in both buying and sellling than most of us, and also has the added "benefit" of the experiences weer have read about, making him exta careful.

Cheers buddy

I'll butt-out now and get back to stuff I know about (which is not much unfortunately)

Thanks so much for trusting John....Like what i said just becareful out there..You cannot stop them..but you can avoid them..

[DAVIDSW]

These guys in Cali are PROS. They are well known and if I am not mistaken tried to pull the same thing on another TRF Seller a while back. They tried it on me 2 years ago but I luckily caught it.... Man I wish someone will catch these guys one day

[bodybump]

Originally Posted by DAVIDSW

These guys in Cali are PROS. They are well known and if I am not mistaken tried to pull the same thing on another TRF Seller a while back. They tried it on me 2 years ago but I luckily caught it.... Man I wish someone will catch these guys one day

X2 David...they know every seller in this forum...im pretty much sure they are a member here...Spoke to Dan about it..They always check our forum..and i know they reading everysingle thread in here...

[Earl Camembert]

Originally Posted by bodybump

i know they reading everysingle thread in here...

They are? Well this is for them.

[RebreatherDiver]

Interesting post, glad it worked out.

Just a few thoughts, I am a member of a few forums that you can not view any posts unless you are a member, something to think about.

This would not solve this problem, but perhaps instead of listing the number publicly, ask for a PM to give out your number.

Again, nothing replaces "street knowledge" but just a some thoughts floating across my brain housing group

[bodybump]

Originally Posted by RebreatherDiver

Interesting post, glad it worked out.

Just a few thoughts, I am a member of a few forums that you can not view any posts unless you are a member, something to think about.

This would not solve this problem, but perhaps instead of listing the number publicly, ask for a PM to give out your number.

Again, nothing replaces "street knowledge" but just a some thoughts floating across my brain housing group

[springer]

Interesting thread.

[idk01]

Dan,

Congrats for avoiding something we would all dread!!! the stuff that nightmares are made of, sounds like these guys are pro's and way to cocky as well, we seem to have a few of these sorts here in Sydney, and eventually they ended up cuffed and prosecuted, the only reason they were caught, boasting about their achievements, just proof that the closed mouth gathers no feet.

Dave and Oscar, sounds like you both have had attempted contact by these scumbags, any info would be great *wink* *wink*.

[cornerstore]

Originally Posted by kanger

So at this point, if you think about it, I am in big trouble. This man Sam has my Fedex receipt and my sender's copy because I was so nice and honest I sent it via picture message through my iphone. He could easily call up Fedex, pretend to be me, say I made a mistake, and have the package continue towards Santa Ana, CA. I am a wreck at 3 in the morning.

To my surprise, Sam actually texts me back after I warn him. He informs me the check is legitimate and that he will call up the bank to make sure. I maintain my stance because by that point, I was 100% convinced I was involved in a scam. This goes back and forth for about another 10 text messages where I basically accuse him of scam, and he responds with "I have no idea what you are talking about, I am very upset of being accused, I am very upset......"

We are exchanging texts at 3 in the morning on Saturday because when I call him, he does not pick up. So at this point, I text him and say word for word literally "Call me like a man. You know my phone number." I keep texting "Call me now. NOW!" And I keep getting responses of "Call you in a little bit ok I am very mad right now I have never been accused of anything bad."

I am frustrated at this point, and say to him, "I'm going to bed. I'm calling you one last time, if you don't pick up, you will never hear from me again."

My logic at that point is this: if I actually go to bed and get up early in the morning, I can call up that specific UPS, keep calling Fedex to make sure he does not mess with the HOLD, and keep calling the Santa Ana police.

Like I promised, I called him one last time. After one ring, I get the voice mail. I see that I have a text on my phone from Sam, and it says "Ok goodnight." After that, everything changed. Apparently, the man who scammed me had a conscience!



About a minute after he sent me a text that said "Ok goodnight." I get another text from him, and it reads, "Hey believe me I'm a good guy I pay everybody back and donate to charities last one was Haiti no bs." There are no punctuations because I am literally repeating text messages from my iphone, and he didn't use any punctuations. So at this point, he basically admitted to me it is a scam.

I write "You cost me $93 in shippping, but the fact that you thought you have successfully cheated me only to find out now you failed is a great feeling to me."

Sam writes "I can still get our watch but realized you are a college student so I won't pursue it. I have not failed I can still get the watch so don't push it but like I said you are a college student so I won't." Again, this is word for word.

I feel pretty good at this point, I feel that OKAY this man is basically letting me go, I just need to make sure he does not pursue my watch, and I should be good to go. I ask him for a gentleman's promise that he will not pursue it, and he texts me saying one word, "Sorry."

I keep asking him for the promise, and he responds with two texts. The first one is "Just a word of advice if they say wire make sure it's a wire and not checks or others," and "Will not pursue your watch promise."

At this point, I am pretty relieved, it is 4 in the morning, and I'm dead tired. I text him back saying "Thanks and good night." You got to understand, do I hate this man for scamming me? Heck yes, but deep down, I am grateful that he actually texted me and admitted guilt, and is backing off.

A minute after I send him the text that said "Thanks and good night." HE CALLED ME!

How do you answer a phone call like that? Do you begin with "Hi?" Do you begin with "So you tried to scam me huh?" Honestly, I don't remember what my first words were, but in hindsight, this is a very interesting question, how do you greet a call from a man who was about to take so much from you?

He called, and we began talking. Sam was very straightforward with me on the phone. The first thing he told me was this "Daniel, if I wanted your watch, I can easily have it. But I don't. I was talking with my partner, and said this kid Daniel has not used a single curse word with me the whole time, and we were laughing at your texts." This is the fourth instance of my extreme luck, and I swear on it I am telling the truth. I had typed into my iphone "F*** YOU, YOU MOTHERF*****." I had that text message ready to send earlier, but canceled it and never sent it. Who knows what would have happened if I sent it.

After about 2 minutes of Sam boasting to me he could have my watch easily if he wanted to, the tone softened a lot, and Sam started being nice. He told me, "Daniel, do you know why I picked you, I mean come on, your join date into TRF is Jan 2010, and that's like holding a sign that says 'scam me.'"

He then tells me, "You know, Daniel, you are the first victim whom I have ever talked to after the fact. Everyone calls me and leaves these either expletive ladden messages or begs me for the money back, and I have never answered, and you are the first person I have ever talked to."

I'm just thinking to myself, "My God, I am talking with the man who swindled me, and he is opening up to me."

Sam continues, "Daniel, I promise on everyone I love that I will not pursue your watch. I promise on my parents, on my kids that I will leave it alone." So at this point, I am very relieved. Sam continues, "You know when I heard about the Haiti earthquake, and you can send 10 bucks by sending a cell phone text message, I said to myself 'F*** that, and I donated 2000 bucks right away. No BS.'

He then proceeds to teach me to be more aware, "Daniel, next time, sell it locally and for cash, even it is for cash, make sure you take it to a bank and check out the cash, and make sure it's Benjamin's face on the bills, accept no checks of any kind because it's a cold, cold, cold world out there, and you gotta watch out for yourself. Don't get into the habit of watches, cars, and women, and stay in school and get good grades."

He asks me my major in college, and I tell him Finance and Applied Math. Sam then tells me that he graduated from USC business school. He then proceeds to tell me to not spend my money on the GMT and wait for a good deal. "Baselworld starts on March 15th, and new watches are coming out. Keep your money Dan and wait for a good deal."

In all, my conversation with Sam lasted for 34 minutes, and he assured me that this very phone will be discarded soon and that he will get a new prepaid phone. "I'm going to keep you number Daniel and call you and check up on you, and man if you were ever in California, I sure want to meet you."

And the final thing he said to me was this, "This 100 bucks you dropped on shipping, consider it the most expensive lesson you ever learned in your life." But he then changed his mind. "You know what, once you get your watch back, text me your address if you want and I will put a 100 bill in an envelope and send it to you." I hesitate and say "isn't illegal to send cash?" "Not if nobody knows about it. Look if you are worried about my coming to your address and messing with you, I have better things to do, but iff you want to text me your address, you could be in for a nice surprise. You know, after talking to you I don't know if I have the heart to do this anymore, and you will be the first and last victim I ever talk to. Good night"

Just like that, I talked to the man who is responsible for scamming so many people, and we talked for 34 minutes. He gave me many advice about the things not to do in life, and I feel ambivalent about what I should feel toward him. On one hand, I hate that he cheats people for a living, yet on the other, I feel grateful that he let me go and now I have my watch back. I just don't know what to feel, and I just hope that he stops doing this to other people.

So many things happened that day, it was absolutely surreal. A divine force told me not to buy that Rolex Submariner F serial that afternoon or else I will have a negative 3000 balance on my bank account and my parents will know about it, and I will be in a world of trouble. A divine force told Oscar to share his story with me; I never asked him for the story, he just felt like telling me it. A divine force told my roommate to tell me not to ship the package on Thursday and wait until Friday. And finally, a divine force, and perhaps a couple cans of Busch light (Sam told me on the phone he may slur a bit when he talks because he has had a few beers that night) made Sam admit the scam to me and not pursue the watch. It has been a surreal experience in everyway, had one of those things not happened, I would be in a world of hurt right now.

I appreciate the help, support, and kindness of everyone on TRF, I thank my roommate, I thank Oscar, and I thank whatever force was behind all the luck I got with this. Thank you.

PS- The Z Submariner Date is still for sale. Thanks for looking!

Great ending so far but not to make you paranoid you gave him enough info. so he could steal your identity.School ,courses ,general age ,bank info. address .

[joeychitwood]

I agree with the previously posted opinion that in order for a professional con artist to return the watch to you, he had decided that the risks were too high to complete the theft. Having dealt with sociopaths most of my career, they don't do anything that isn't in their own best interest.

I'm the other guy who was scammed out of two watches and nearly four grand. My story is different in that the guy who tried to scam me was a moron and made it very easy to pursue and eventually bring him into the sheriff's office in his home town. I was able to get my watches and cash back, but it took nearly 10 days of full-time phone calls, research and emails, as well as the efforts of countless TRF members to accomplish the return.

After all was said and done, I learned that:

1) Scamming someone on the internet isn't necessarily a crime unless banking laws are broken. Otherwise, law enforcement frequently looks at these scams as a gentlemen's agreement gone sour.

2) Unless you run into very sympathetic police officers willing to help you (as I did) they are unlikely to pursue any scam involving less than $100,000. (I heard this from two LE officers.)

3) If you have questions, contact one of the many experts on the forum who will be more than happy to guide you through the minefield of internet transactions.

I have since purchased a new Sea Dweller from a well known TRF seller with great results. Don't let this sour you on future transactions, just be sure to do your research ahead of time. I am very glad you got your watch back. Sliding it back on your wrist after such an adventure is indeed a great feeling.