Would you trade a 5712 for FPJ Chronometre Bleu?

[rolexpatek363]

Originally Posted by dchang81

Is your w124 an E500 by chance??

Haha! If only. It's a 300E 3L straight six auto, pre-facelift. It just purrs along and doesn't upset anyone. I love it. Thanks for all the additional comments, and of course more input is always welcome.

If I do decide to change, I'll post a picture of the CB.

[ts3]

Originally Posted by rolexpatek363

Haha! If only. It's a 300E 3L straight six auto, pre-facelift. It just purrs along and doesn't upset anyone. I love it. Thanks for all the additional comments, and of course more input is always welcome.

If I do decide to change, I'll post a picture of the CB.

My 1994 E320 Coupe says hello.

Trading a 5712 into a CB would have been a no for me even if the valuation had made sense. I thought about adding a CB years ago when they were around 40k secondary but it didn't happen. Love the case, interesting enough movement, but less sure about some of the lighter blue tones (depending on the light) and the Journe hands and numerals. I am also enjoying my good old 5711 all the time no matter the recent hype. The watch itself is as nice and comfortable as it always was and where I move about it hardly gets recognized.

[rolexpatek363]

Originally Posted by ts3

My 1994 E320 Coupe says hello.

Trading a 5712 into a CB would have been a no for me even if the valuation had made sense. I thought about adding a CB years ago when they were around 40k secondary but it didn't happen. Love the case, interesting enough movement, but less sure about some of the lighter blue tones (depending on the light) and the Journe hands and numerals. I am also enjoying my good old 5711 all the time no matter the recent hype. The watch itself is as nice and comfortable as it always was and where I move about it hardly gets recognized.

Such great cars, just lovely to waft around in, totally stress-free.

The other contender for the CB I can think of is the blue Credor Eichi II. which is absolutely stunning in person, and has better finishing on the movement. Cheaper as well, and none of the personality cult.

https://www.seikoboutique.co.uk/prod...platinum-ruri/

[crod]

Originally Posted by rolexpatek363

Thanks, gents, very much for all the answers, food for thought.

I bought the 5712 from new at a time when nobody seemed to want them, and so I was able to negotiate a small discount. I'm not a watch flipper or speculator (I only wish I had the money to be one!), and so I only buy watches that I really like. I had no idea that what has happened would happen.

For the first few years everything was great, nobody knew what it was and I enjoyed wearing it quite a lot without attracting any attention at all. But ever since the hype over the past two or three years, it feels like I'm wearing a huge beacon of wealth on my wrist, and that makes me feel uncomfortable as it's not the image I want to project, and there's also the slight fear of street robbery. if a professional boxer can get robbed, anyone can.

The only other way I could realistically afford to get the CB would be to sell my FPJ Octa Automatique, which I very luckily found in a shop s/h in 2016 at what seems today to be a bargain price. But I love that watch even more than the 5712, and nobody seems to recognise it, so the idea of selling it seems ridiculous.

Despite my ludicrous (by most people's standards) watch collection, I am really not a particularly wealthy person by the standards of this forum, and otherwise I live reasonably frugally. I drive a 1993 W124, for example.

There are currently 11 CBs on C24 and 213 5712s. They are going for pretty much the same money. If I sold my three old-school steel Rolexes (16610; 5513; 114300), that wouldn't raise half the asking price.

Is a CB less recognisable than a Nautilus? I suppose that is the real question...

I have the 5711 and the CB and love them both, from what I understand from your post you dont like what has happened with the Nautilus line in terms of awareness, flexing etc. I feel the same way and although i still love my 5711 I tend to wear it far less than what i did 4 years ago. The CB is NOT noticeable you have to be into watches to really know what it is.
Last week for example I was travelling in Shanghai and went into the ALS boutique to try the Lange 1. i was wearing the FP QP (perpetual calendar). The Sales Associate asked me which brand was the watch and when I told him he said he had heard of it but never actually saw one.

I think the CB will give you what you are looking for better than the 5712.

[rolexpatek363]

Originally Posted by crod

I have the 5711 and the CB and love them both, from what I understand from your post you dont like what has happened with the Nautilus line in terms of awareness, flexing etc. I feel the same way and although i still love my 5711 I tend to wear it far less than what i did 4 years ago. The CB is NOT noticeable you have to be into watches to really know what it is.
Last week for example I was travelling in Shanghai and went into the ALS boutique to try the Lange 1. i was wearing the FP QP (perpetual calendar). The Sales Associate asked me which brand was the watch and when I told him he said he had heard of it but never actually saw one.

I think the CB will give you what you are looking for better than the 5712.

Yes, that's exactly how I feel.

[1William]

I would keep the PP.

[rolexandlange]

I handled the CB at an auction showing before. It didn't leave an impression. I tried on a display 5712 at the AD and really liked it. Definitely felt it would be the nautilus I would own if ever.

[unknown]

I would do it. The Nautilus is nice but the CB is imo much more interesting

[DGB]

The CB is a much more interesting watch, gold movement, beautiful dial, and goes below the radar.
I would go for it.


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[ChetBaker]

In all fairness though and having thought about it. The CB is a 30k watch that goes for 80k. If I had 80 to spend I would opt for something that has exceptional finishing and can be had at or close to retail.

[psv]

Not even close, keep the Nautilus

[APhound]

I don’t know how anyone can make heads or tails of the fpj market. It’s very hard, at least for me, to figure out.


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[rolexpatek363]

It's very strange, although there are some parallels with the Nautilus market..

AIUI, about 10-15% of FPJ output is the CB, so that's 100-150 per year. But demand is sky-high, and so is speculation because the UK RRP is about £31,000, and you can sell it the next day for about £80,000. FPJ wants to discourage speculation and sell his watches to enthusiasts, which is fair enough.

In order to be considered trustworthy, you have to demonstrate commitment to the brand, meaning that you can't get onto a waiting list for a nice "cheap" CB until you've bought & retained a number of their other watches, most of which are considerably more expensive...

A minnow like me has no hope of getting a new one at RRP.

[yessir69]

Get the Journe and if you regret it get a 3712 instead.

[GB-man]

That offer is completely insane. I have a CB I would trade 1:1 with a 5712 unfortunately I’m not in Europe. Keep looking for a better deal.

[rolexpatek363]

"unfortunately I’m not in Europe"

That's a shame.

I will cast the net wider. Fortunately I am not in any great hurry.

[Jay (Eire)]

I had come to the same conclusion about my 5711, it was unwearable and as much as I liked it (still do) my brain was telling me do something. It was a combination of it being unwearable and the crazy secondary market prices that led me to dump it. No regrets.

All that said, for me your thought of trading for a CB, while an upgrade in my opinion in some ways, is not something I’d do. At the prices of both of these watches there are a lot more interesting watches to buy. I say that as a long time Journe owner, multiple watches including a CB I’ve owned and loved for more than a decade.

The other thing I would add, despite the peaks the CB hit in the secondary market it never crossed my mind to sell it.

[rolexpatek363]

The CB is THE watch I've desired for many years. Having said that, the Credor is an absolutely stunning watch as well, and arguably has a better dial and movement.

Very often the hunt is where most of the pleasure is.

[Starwalker]

I would get the CB - it is literally a work of art and in far fewer numbers - with an even greater waiting lists. It’s a very tough question to answer but the 5712 in spite of being one of my favourite watches from PP - it can’t come close to the handicraft produced by FJP