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Old 22 January 2017, 04:09 AM   #91
codecow
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I am told by my AD that the reason the papers for my 5131R are being held for 2 years is so the watch cannot be sold with the warranty. If I have a warranty issue then no problem Rhone will enable the repair but a second owner will not get a repair. They have done this specifically to stop a warranty repair for a flipped watch. A watch with papers within the 2 year warranty period is covered if it has full papers whoever presents it for repair.
I picked my 5131R up last week they sent it to my AD with the papers already filled out with my information.
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Old 22 January 2017, 05:16 AM   #92
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Are you saying the original statement made to the OP's BIL was correct and in context?
Going by the conversation I had, she confirmed what the OP reported – obviously in general terms, rather than his case specifically.
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Old 22 January 2017, 05:18 AM   #93
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Old 22 January 2017, 05:56 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by codecow View Post
I picked my 5131R up last week they sent it to my AD with the papers already filled out with my information.
Perfect. Was it your first Patek?
My point was that to deter flipping Rhone in the UK keeps the papers - without them there is no transferable warranty. They have my papers filled out and I will get them next February.
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Old 22 January 2017, 07:22 AM   #95
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Its black and white.. I dont see why this is still being discussed !!! Geneve salon telling me it doesnt matter whos name is on it to honour warranty should be good enough.
Black and white is what is needed and for Geneva, HSNA and all PP ADs to be on the same page at all times.
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Old 22 January 2017, 07:22 AM   #96
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Perfect. Was it your first Patek?
My point was that to deter flipping Rhone in the UK keeps the papers - without them there is no transferable warranty. They have my papers filled out and I will get them next February.
I see.

No, it was not my first Patek. I was told all application pieces will be coming from Geneva with the papers already filled out.
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Old 22 January 2017, 08:13 AM   #97
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This policy is terrible
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Old 22 January 2017, 08:36 AM   #98
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Hope the policy isn't what it sounds like it would be. It would certainly make me hesitate to buy a Patek.
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Old 22 January 2017, 08:43 AM   #99
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Looks and sounds to me that HSWA is making its own interpretation.
Its a stupid thing to do.
If Patek would be behind this with the goal of stamping out grey markets then they would logically HAVE to extend the warranty period. With two years its one of the shortest. If you want to keep your customers through a warranty then two years isnt a long time.
I also agree with statements that the Patek philospohy of looking after a watch for the next generation is opposite to the HSWA interpretation of how to apply a warranty.
They are hurting themselves and the brand this way imo
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Old 22 January 2017, 09:57 AM   #100
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Hopefully unfounded. Would be absolutely rediculous although I transferred my bmw lease to another guy and was told bmwusa would not honor the included scheduled maintenance to the second lessee. Similar circumstance although a lease is a short term commitment by definition so...
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Old 22 January 2017, 12:56 PM   #101
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Whole thing is none sense....Geneva have confirmed.....there is another reason why it's not being honoured! IMHO
I should call Geneva.
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Old 22 January 2017, 01:04 PM   #102
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Wrong or not let's wait and see what HSWA has to say. So far we have two people saying it doesn't matter what name is on the certificate and two people that say they were recently told it does matter. As far as sending a copy of the certificate with the watch when warranty work is done, that's always been the policy.
That's what I thought too...
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Old 22 January 2017, 01:27 PM   #103
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I should call Geneva.
That would be ideal--let us know what Geneva says.
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Old 23 January 2017, 03:27 AM   #104
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Very interesting discussion indeed. So HSWA and Geneva are honoring warranty work to original owners only.

Any experiences in London, Paris and other regions?

This can certainly kill the gray market if the warranty only applies to original owners.
As already mentioned, EU consumer law would say that if it's an original manufacturer piece and there is warranty left, change of ownership doesn't matter.

In fact, the current interpretation of EU consumer laws would give you even more protection but the point here is clear: this wouldn't ride in London / Paris / EU in general.
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Old 23 January 2017, 06:10 AM   #105
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As already mentioned, EU consumer law would say that if it's an original manufacturer piece and there is warranty left, change of ownership doesn't matter.

In fact, the current interpretation of EU consumer laws would give you even more protection but the point here is clear: this wouldn't ride in London / Paris / EU in general.
Since Switzerland is technically not part of the EU, then I suppose Geneva would be exempt from this consumer law. Nevertheless it would be good to get clarification if the new warranty issue is regional or more widespread.
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Old 23 January 2017, 06:59 AM   #106
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If you read reviews of Jomashop (and they are probably one of the worse)-- they find excuses not to honor their warranty and if they do honor do you want to take a chance on who they might send it to for repair. There are legit and very good 3rd party repair shops I might trust but you have no idea who Jomashop is going to send it to-- if they will even honor the warranty. You should look up some of the complaints.

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Isn't this the very reason that dealers like Jomashop MIT etc have to give their own guarantee? They know as non Patek AD that the warranty is void. There are better ways of controlling grey in North America versus voiding warranties. How about looking at who the AD's sell to first, insist papers don't leave AD blank and consequences for AD that breach distribution rules. Pull one distributor and the message will set in very quick!
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Old 23 January 2017, 08:27 AM   #107
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Since Switzerland is technically not part of the EU, then I suppose Geneva would be exempt from this consumer law. Nevertheless it would be good to get clarification if the new warranty issue is regional or more widespread.
I thought the point was if the watch was bought in EU area, manufacturing country doesn't matter in the EU consumer act, if the watch is sold to EU. I would guess this is also the case in the US, since I always see a separate set of warranty conditions for US markets.
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Old 23 January 2017, 08:35 AM   #108
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I do a lot of photography and if you buy a grey (non USA) Nikon lens or camera you cannot even get it repaired for a fee in the USA. This is to deter folks from buying grey
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Old 23 January 2017, 06:35 PM   #109
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Hopefully things will get cleared out soon. I am on the side that they should honor the warranty period.
@watchucallit. if you buy a nikon lens from a regular US store, they should still honor it even though you have sold it to the 2nd buyer, right?
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Old 23 January 2017, 07:38 PM   #110
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To be honest this might have stopped me getting the second PP I got, it was from grey dealer and had 1 year warranty left, the first had none left, but now I don't care, I buy them new from AD and no intention to sell, so whatever it is don't really care, just find it kind of odd that a warranty goes to the owner not the product, but I get that it's all part of their try to get rid of grey market, the only thing I am not sure that this will not impact the brand negatively and that would not be great. About sellers' warranties I would prefer to pay rather than my watch being repaired by I don't know who, and that's for mine which are rather simple watches, even the 5712, but think about more complicate ones, would you want anyone looking at your 5970?
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Old 23 January 2017, 08:32 PM   #111
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I think this might just be an isolated incident??
All other Pateks ADs in europe outside US will honour warranty even if watch was sold on to another party within the 2 years.. Thats my understanding so no need for panic..
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Old 24 January 2017, 01:40 AM   #112
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Ok folks here's what I sent to Patek (HSWA) about the warranty. Hopefully we get an answer sooner than later.

Hi Pat. I'm the guy with the......... that was sent to Geneva for a repair, I bought it from....... and got it back from you a few months ago. Everything is fine with the watch and I love it but I do have a question about the warranty on all Patek watches. I've been told recently that HSWA will only honor the warranty if the original buyers name is on the certificate. Is that correct, and if so what happens if I buy a three month old watch from someone I know and it needs warranty work within the two year period? Or, I sell a watch to somebody after I've only had it for six months? Is the warranty invalid? Two people I know recently told me this is the new HSWA policy (according to their AD's) and I always thought the warranty went with the watch. Could you please clarify this. Thanks.
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Old 24 January 2017, 01:49 AM   #113
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Ok here is the response from Patek and you aren't going to like it. Direct from Patek and it's company policy, not just a guy that got it wrong.

Dear Martin,

Happy New Year!

It’s actually quite simple. The 2-year warranty is not transferrable. The owner of the timepiece needs to have purchased it DIRECTLY from an authorized dealer. If the owner of the timepiece purchased it from any other source, there is no warranty. This is actually to protect our clients from the gray market. This is printed on the back of every Certificate of Origin. The information is also found on the Patek Philippe website. This has nothing to do with HSWA or any other service center. This policy comes directly from Patek Philippe Geneva and has been in effect for many, many years.



Kind regards,

Pat
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Old 24 January 2017, 02:00 AM   #114
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Ok here is the response from Patek and you aren't going to like it. Direct from Patek and it's company policy, not just a guy that got it wrong.

Dear Martin,

Happy New Year!

It’s actually quite simple. The 2-year warranty is not transferrable. The owner of the timepiece needs to have purchased it DIRECTLY from an authorized dealer. If the owner of the timepiece purchased it from any other source, there is no warranty. This is actually to protect our clients from the gray market. This is printed on the back of every Certificate of Origin. The information is also found on the Patek Philippe website. This has nothing to do with HSWA or any other service center. This policy comes directly from Patek Philippe Geneva and has been in effect for many, many years.



Kind regards,

Pat
Wow! Well that confirms that as I trust Pat at HSWA.

This would make me think twice about buying used or gray.
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Old 24 January 2017, 02:01 AM   #115
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It's on company letterhead so it official.
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Old 24 January 2017, 02:23 AM   #116
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Ok here is the response from Patek and you aren't going to like it. Direct from Patek and it's company policy, not just a guy that got it wrong.

Dear Martin,

Happy New Year!

It’s actually quite simple. The 2-year warranty is not transferrable. The owner of the timepiece needs to have purchased it DIRECTLY from an authorized dealer. If the owner of the timepiece purchased it from any other source, there is no warranty. This is actually to protect our clients from the gray market. This is printed on the back of every Certificate of Origin. The information is also found on the Patek Philippe website. This has nothing to do with HSWA or any other service center. This policy comes directly from Patek Philippe Geneva and has been in effect for many, many years.



Kind regards,

Pat
-Glad to see there is clarity here.

Of the new watches purchased over the past 2 decades, three of seven have required warranty service (IWC Mark XV, IWC Ingenieur Climate Action, 5167) and the rest have been ok (GMT-II, 5227, Saxonia, Speedy).

Didn't Ablogtowatch.com have a story about the benefits of buying from the AD?

J
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Old 24 January 2017, 02:54 AM   #117
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Im still not buying this as my friend who works at the Patek Philippe boutique in Geneve told me warranty is valid even if owners name isnt on the certificate...
I am sure many members here have not had an issue when exercising the 2 year warranty on a piece they bought on the grey market..??? Who knoew?? haha
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Old 24 January 2017, 04:17 AM   #118
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As I said before HSWA doesn't really want to combat grey dealers as they would just make sure that papers are completed at AD's and allocations would be done along the lines of the U.K. Alternatively this isn't known to the wider audience and they should put an add in the paper or AD stating that warranties don't exist other than to the original Purchaser....my suggestion is buy your watches in UK and Europe
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Old 24 January 2017, 04:34 AM   #119
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In a way the policy could combat the gray market. For example, a trusted seller has a 5711 blue for sale BNIB for more than the retail price. It might develop the sticking date issue. Then, the buyer sends it in and is told no warranty it will cost you $$$. And it might take a year to fix. A potential buyer would think twice about making that purchase. So the gray sellers can potentially lose sales. However, I don't think think the policy is a good one, the warranty should follow the watch. Two years is already a short warranty considering the product.
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Old 24 January 2017, 05:00 AM   #120
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In a way the policy could combat the gray market. For example, a trusted seller has a 5711 blue for sale BNIB for more than the retail price. It might develop the sticking date issue. Then, the buyer sends it in and is told no warranty it will cost you $$$. And it might take a year to fix. A potential buyer would think twice about making that purchase. So the gray sellers can potentially lose sales. However, I don't think think the policy is a good one, the warranty should follow the watch. Two years is already a short warranty considering the product.


Patek s main problem is the output ,they dump the unwanted pieces to the dealer who can t/don t want to finance it rather sell it to grey dealers who are selling under list which slowing down even more the sales of these references,obviously Patek doesn t like the grey dealers but even less the idea to producing less though it would solve the problem for good.Anyhow it s a great information I think it s very effective method to get back customers to the AD ,i think we agree that too many issues we heard on new watches to take the risk and covering the costs of repair.


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