Help With Stolen Watches From NY Auction

[robyn1870]

I work for an Upstate New York Auction House. In October we had a customer come up and purchase $10K worth of watches and clocks. He gave us references, and then ultimatley a bad check, but left with the merchandise. We are in the process of prosecuting, but wanted to warn people in the community in case he trys to market them on this site. His name is David Shulman of Massachusetts and I believe goes buy Rolex1 on this site. I just merely wanted to post a warning to any potential customers of his, that they may be or have been involved in the dealing of stolen merchandise.

[Nicko]

Now, if this is true, it can't be good....I would be inclined to hear both sides of this story though. I mean, someone's name and reputation is at stake here.

[SkyKing31]

I agree

[TimeToGo]

Originally Posted by robyn1870

I work for an Upstate New York Auction House. In October we had a customer come up and purchase $10K worth of watches and clocks. He gave us references, and then ultimatley a bad check, but left with the merchandise. We are in the process of prosecuting, but wanted to warn people in the community in case he trys to market them on this site. His name is David Shulman of Massachusetts and I believe goes buy Rolex1 on this site. I just merely wanted to post a warning to any potential customers of his, that they may be or have been involved in the dealing of stolen merchandise.

If that is real name (David Shulman). You just made quite an acusation on Rolex1, I am sure this will get looked at!

[Tools]

This is a serious accusation.......... One that we would need to know both sides of the issue before jumping to any conclusion.

You are a new member, but rolex1 has been a member without issue for over 3 years...

Since you have made this accusation, you will need to follow it up with further facts as they become available so a member is not unfairly left hanging without resolution..

[robyn1870]

We, too, would like to hear his side of the story, but unfortunatly have had no repsonse so far. We are not in business to smear people's good name, and have no reason to post this other than to warn other people of our dealings. Our only objective is to recoup what $ we are now out due to this customer.

[TRW]

Thank You for the Heads Up and Welcome to TRF.

[robyn1870]

to answer MonBK's question - no that Rolex was not one of the items purchased from us.

[robyn1870]

I will happily update this post as soon as we have received information from the District Attorney. Since we are working with items taken across state lines, the paperwork is more involved... but we are not giving up on this one!

[mtrunner]

Originally Posted by robyn1870

I will happily update this post as soon as we have received information from the District Attorney. Since we are working with items taken across state lines, the paperwork is more involved... but we are not giving up on this one!

Well did you have contact with him after the check bounced or has he cut off communication completely with you. Maybe you can fill us in more on what transpired.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by robyn1870

I will happily update this post as soon as we have received information from the District Attorney. Since we are working with items taken across state lines, the paperwork is more involved... but we are not giving up on this one!

It would help members if we knew serial numbers or models and makes to watch for.. .. There is no way that we can know if a member has more than one user name..

[robyn1870]

We have tried contacting him via telephone and registered mail and no response! We have his invoice, but the descriptions do not include serial numbers, just descriptions.

[wulu]

you'll find his Blackberry pin...

http://rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=154818

[MonBK]

Is that Explorer the watch he bought from you?

[TimeToGo]

He has some items listed in the For Sale Section, if you want to see.

[robyn1870]

how do I locate a specific seller's items? I was having trouble navigating, as I am very new to this site.

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by robyn1870

how do I locate a specific seller's items? I was having trouble navigating, as I am very new to this site.

How about answering some of the questions above before asking new ones?

[TRW]

Originally Posted by robyn1870

how do I locate a specific seller's items? I was having trouble navigating, as I am very new to this site.

Just find whomever Your Looking for in the Commnuity Section and Click on that Persons Posts.

[ParisDakarBmw]

Robyn, This topic is very interesting to the members of this watch community. I understand you posting your concerns here to prevent another issue, but in fairness, I think you should provide a bit more information.

A bounced check is a criminal act, after a warrant is signed by a judge. The civil issue regarding funds, and a signed promise to pay via check. That is in itself civil until the legal system decides otherwise. You then attempt to recoupe funds by certified mail, and then it becomes a criminal event for the funds. Just like a person who buys groceries, and the check bounces. The groceries aren't stolen, but the promise to pay has been comprimised. * The groceries aren't considered stolen.*

Once the items are considered stolen by the DA, and a judge, you may go about recovering the items. This is like a forclosed home, or a car repo. The owner isn't guilty of having a stolen house, or car, but it isn't theirs to keep.

I'm sure people are concerned, and understand the seriousness of your loss. I would however ask that you produce some form of legal document for us to work with.

As far as the bad check goes, that information is good, but should also have something more to validate the accusation.

Just understand that there are plenty of people who have joined the forum, and made accusations that were damaging to the member. It would be better to share something that is a little more than a vague scenario for the members to answer by assumption.

I'm glad you did come forward to share the details to help prevent something further.

[scarhead]

A bounced check is a criminal act, after a warrant is signed by a judge.

My intention here is not to hijack this thread, but to ask a question about this. Paris, I'm trying to understand this for clarification. I'm under the impression that the circumstances at the time of the act (in this case a bounced check) would dictate whether or not it's a criminal act. If a person knows that there are not funds to support a check that is written (i.e., money in the account), then it is a criminal act. I wouldn't think that this act would then become criminal in nature until after a warrant is signed by a judge. Is this how the law reads in your jurisdiction? Here it is not that way, but rather as I mentioned above. A warrant signed by a judge would just be for the person's arrest.

[jianliu1]

Originally Posted by ParisDakarBmw

Robyn, This topic is very interesting to the members of this watch community. I understand you posting your concerns here to prevent another issue, but in fairness, I think you should provide a bit more information.

A bounced check is a criminal act, after a warrant is signed by a judge. The civil issue regarding funds, and a signed promise to pay via check. That is in itself civil until the legal system decides otherwise. You then attempt to recoupe funds by certified mail, and then it becomes a criminal event for the funds. Just like a person who buys groceries, and the check bounces. The groceries aren't stolen, but the promise to pay has been comprimised. * The groceries aren't considered stolen.*

Once the items are considered stolen by the DA, and a judge, you may go about recovering the items. This is like a forclosed home, or a car repo. The owner isn't guilty of having a stolen house, or car, but it isn't theirs to keep.

I'm sure people are concerned, and understand the seriousness of your loss. I would however ask that you produce some form of legal document for us to work with.

As far as the bad check goes, that information is good, but should also have something more to validate the accusation.

Just understand that there are plenty of people who have joined the forum, and made accusations that were damaging to the member. It would be better to share something that is a little more than a vague scenario for the members to answer by assumption.

I'm glad you did come forward to share the details to help prevent something further.

[robyn1870]

Still No Contact from Rolex1 - we are considering his earlier contact just a stall tactic at this point, since there has been no payment made. Just waiting for the final paperwork at this point for the warrant (why does this sh*t take so long??!!??)..
STILL SUGGEST ALL POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS BEWARE OF THIS GUY - WHO KNOWS WHERE HE WILL TURN UP NEXT!

[Sinnned]

I am new on here. I have made some communication with a guy selling watches in Cambridge, Massachusetts. I think he is the guy you are ALL looking for. Is his first name David ? If so..... does anybody have his Full name ? I have a last name but want to be sure this is the ONE everyone is talking about. I saw an Ad on Craigslist Boston and responded because of course i Love watches. I was to get together with him to look them over and he wanted to see/purchase a couple of mine (Vintage Omega etc...) I came across this site and could have sworn his name came up about three weeks ago. I just want to be sure. If this is the GUY i want to HELP because i think he thinks he is going to Rip me off (Wrong). Let me know ASAP so it comes to an end quick.

[robyn1870]

Originally Posted by Sinnned

I am new on here. I have made some communication with a guy selling watches in Cambridge, Massachusetts. I think he is the guy you are ALL looking for. Is his first name David ? If so..... does anybody have his Full name ? I have a last name but want to be sure this is the ONE everyone is talking about. I saw an Ad on Craigslist Boston and responded because of course i Love watches. I was to get together with him to look them over and he wanted to see/purchase a couple of mine (Vintage Omega etc...) I came across this site and could have sworn his name came up about three weeks ago. I just want to be sure. If this is the GUY i want to HELP because i think he thinks he is going to Rip me off (Wrong). Let me know ASAP so it comes to an end quick.

Yes, this seems to be the same gracious fellow.... We contacted the DA this morning and Shuman has made no deposits into the supposed restitution account that was being set up. According to the DA, the "client" has 6 months from the time the case came across the DA's desk to make restitution before legal charges are filed. That time period is not up yet. So we have no choice but to sit back and wait for this jerk!

[Sinnned]

Please read lower post re: Possible guy that you all are looking for ???????? Get back to me ASAP. Sinnned

[robyn1870]

The matter is before the District Attorney, we are at this moment, waiting for the warrant to be issued. I have a copy of the returned check and correspondance with the detective here in NY, but until the warrant is actually issued - I don't know what kind of documentation I can provide you with. Please understand, we have all the information required by the District Attorney to acquire the warrant. My objective here is NOT to obtain information or to do anything other than warn potential customers. If the members of this forum would rather me remove my post, I will do that, as my intentions were not to offend anyone.

[ParisDakarBmw]

Robyn, It's nothing to be removed if it is a legitimate act of fraud. I myself try to see things from both sides. I'm sure you can understand. I'm not a moderator, and would never suggest someone not post good information. I hope your able to share any updates with the members so we can understand everything correctly

If this becomes criminal, which it sounds like, we would like to know what items were taken. CooCoo clocks? Rolex Submariners? and any other items that may be in question.

The moderators are sure to address any issues pertaining to our website. You may even share this information to one of them. They are very good at keeping this site free of negative conduct. Just keep us updated.

Also, What auction house are you working for?

[ParisDakarBmw]

The exchange of money, and a written promise to pay is a civil issue. Now using a forged check, or fake money is another thing.

If a seller accepts a check, it's the they're option. They understand the risk to taking a written promise from a person. Now once the certified letter is sent out, and 30 days has gone by without payment, the seller may go before a judge, and sign a bad check warrant. If the person pays before then, there is no criminal act.

A check is a different animal all together. Suppose your bank didn't have overdraft protection, and a check bounced. That doesn't mean you intended to defraud the person / company. There is a process to remind the person, and then legal action if it isn't paid.

A bad check in itself is not criminal until a judge says that there is probable cause, and sufficient evidence to deem it criminal, and then issues a warrant.

Example... Say I'm working the street, and get a call to a local bank. A painter is cashing a check from an elderly lady, and there isn't sufficient funds. The painter calls 911 to report a theft, or financial fraud. I get there, and listen to the details. Just because the check was bad doesn't mean the person intended to deprive the person of a product or service. I explain that the person needs to file a pre warrant hearing at the Majistrate court. The court would then send a written statement to the check owner stating that they need to pay the check prior to a certain date, or have a hearing.

The pre warrant hearing is held between the buyer, seller, and judge. The judge may issue an imediate warrant, and make them post bond, or mediate a payment plan. I can't simply arrest someone "while writing a check" when money isn't in the account.

It's real tricky because a civil agreement, can turn criminal. There is no middle ground here in Georgia when people enter into a contract via personel check. A judge would make it criminal after the seller makes a formal complaint to the Majistrate court.

How is it up there in Chicago? Can someone simply bounce a check, and go to jail moments after the attempt to get funds is denied???

[Welshwatchman]

This doesn't ring true to me.

The OP does not come across as sufficiently lucid to convince me.

The thing about there being no serial numbers on the bill of sale / invoice just caps it as well.

Unless there's a little more specificity on this matter and quickly too I'll be inclined to call this one nonsense.

In the meantime I'll pm this member and ask for his input.

Potential buyers should take care until the matter's settled.

[Grissom]

Originally Posted by robyn1870

I work for an Upstate New York Auction House. In October we had a customer come up and purchase $10K worth of watches and clocks. He gave us references, and then ultimatley a bad check, but left with the merchandise. We are in the process of prosecuting, but wanted to warn people in the community in case he trys to market them on this site. His name is Xxxxx Xxxxxxx of Massachusetts and I believe goes buy Xxxxxx on this site. I just merely wanted to post a warning to any potential customers of his, that they may be or have been involved in the dealing of stolen merchandise.

Originally Posted by robyn1870

We have tried contacting him via telephone and registered mail and no response! We have his invoice, but the descriptions do not include serial numbers, just descriptions.

Robyn, in your two posts above, you mention you work for an Upstate NY Auction House, and that the Auction House sold some watches, and that the check received was "bad". Was this check NSF, or written on a previously closed account, or a stolen check, or a forged check? An NSF check while serious, is certainly not as aggregious as a closed account, a stolen check, or a forged check.

Do you have a copy of a State Issued ID with a photograph, or perhaps you had the buyer fingerprint the check, or some other way to positively ID the individual as who you think it is (to rule out identity theft?)......

Also, I personally find it rather odd that an Auction House does not maintain records of case/serial numbers of watches sold. In fact, I would imagine that you would have documented that when you acquired the watches, pre-auction.

That is quite confusing, and has me wondering how you can even file charges or a police report, is you cannot positively identify the merchandise. There might be a cause of action against the individual for the bad check, but without serial or case numbers, none of the watches could be considered stolen, because the Action House would have an extremely difficult time proving that any given similar watch is THE watch in question w/o a serial/case number.

I believe it is quite dangerous to name an individual on a public forum such as this one, in this way, and that it opens YOU up to potential civil liability, which hopefully your employer will endemnify you, should you be sued by this indiviual, should this be found to be an incorrect accusation. Better to have simply listed the watches and serial/case numbers in question, without any names, however, you seem not to have those.

And, by the way, according to your description of the events, this would be considered GRAND LARCENY, and the items "allegedly stolen", and I am wondering why you have not posted a Police Report yet. If a criminal act has indeed occurred I hope that you are able to successfully resolve this.

Originally Posted by Welshwatchman

This doesn't ring true to me.

The OP does not come across as sufficiently lucid to convince me.

The thing about there being no serial numbers on the bill of sale / invoice just caps it as well.

I agree, that the lack of serial numbers being noted as very odd!