Ringling Bros. Circus to Close after 146 years

[TommyT53]

Originally Posted by artschool

zoos will be next.

keeping large animals in captivity should just not be happening.

I agree...animals can be seen on YouTube and other venues of the media. Used to be you could only see the creatures at the zoo, not anymore. Although some people don't know what a cow looks like lol.

[CRM114]

Originally Posted by TommyT53

I agree...animals can be seen on YouTube and other venues of the media. Used to be you could only see the creatures at the zoo, not anymore. Although some people don't know what a cow looks like lol.

And some people obviously don't know what modern zoos and their personnel do; the education, hands-on research, species genetic mapping/diversity breeding, or habitat preservation programs they're involved in.

[texex91]

Originally Posted by CRM114

And some people obviously don't know what modern zoos and their personnel do; the education, hands-on research, species genetic mapping/diversity breeding, or habitat preservation programs they're involved in.

And some people do know that, but rather see animals enjoying life in their natural habitat vs trapped in fake environments for the sake 'entertainment' for zoo visitors.

SOME, zoos do good work, but I'd prefer animals in the wild not captured.

And Seaworld is next on the chopping block IMHO.

[CRM114]

Originally Posted by texex91

And some people do know that, but rather see animals enjoying life in their natural habitat vs trapped in fake environments for the sake 'entertainment' for zoo visitors.

They aren't for the sake of entertainment, they are for developing an appreciation. Perhaps you're confusing zoos with a circus?

Most large endangered species in their natural habitat when reduced to small enough numbers begin to interbreed too closely, and only "enjoy life" up until they point they end up in the locals' stewpots or as poacher fare. And the fewer there are, the more valuable they become. That's why they're endangered in the first place.

But if you want to dedicate your life to convincing a few billion people out there that rhino horn and tiger balls don't help their love life, be my guest. In the meantime, the personnel involved at zoos who are actually doing something about it and the funding that's generated going towards research and preservation of habitat etc are going to get my vote before by the likes of those who think zoos "have no place" because their education consists of YouTube videos.

[texex91]

Originally Posted by CRM114

They aren't for the sake of entertainment, they are for developing an appreciation. Perhaps you're confusing zoos with a circus?

.

We'll agree to disagree--it's ok CRM.

Take care.

Glad to see so many members here care about the animals--cheers to them.

[CRM114]

Originally Posted by texex91

And Seaworld is next on the chopping block IMHO.

Why Seaworld and not your own Texas State Aquarium down in Corpus? There are wild fish in captivity right in your own back yard.

I know a former Director of Education down there very well. Imagine her surprise when I inform her that all her years of education, degrees and field research could have just as easily been picked up on YouTube/Discovery Channel shark shows and her career there was not an effort to advance knowledge and understanding so people develop an appreciation for sea critters and habitat, but actually spent in the entertainment business?

Yes, we do disagree. I don't consider her or the other thousands of highly-educated, motivated animal-loving people like her who dedicate their lives to understanding and preserving the species of our planet the equivalent of circus ringmasters.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by BristolCavendish

*just thinking* With this discussion primarily focused on the treatment of animals, should certain rodeo events (i.e. bull/bronco-riding and calf-roping) be eliminated as well? The animals obviously experience a certain degree of trauma and discomfort during these events.

On the other hand, a rodeo would probably not draw as many spectators if the competition was strictly limited to watching cowgirls participating in barrel races on their cutting horses.

Personally, I'm against any actions that harm animals for pure entertainment. Including running of the bulls, rodeos, etc.

i don't think it's ok to harm something, anything, because I think it's fun.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by superdog

Personally, I'm against any actions that harm animals for pure entertainment. Including running of the bulls, rodeos, etc.

i don't think it's ok to harm something, anything, because I think it's fun.

Rodeo's don't harm animals. The livestock is cared for quite well. The suppliers can't earn a living from injured animals and take care to protect their livestock.

I did rodeo bull riding about ten years ago. The bulls were treated like athletes. Their care was generally much better than a typical pasture bull would get.

Way better treatment than the animals the end up on your grill get.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Rodeo's don't harm animals. The livestock is cared for quite well. The suppliers can't earn a living from injured animals and take care to protect their livestock.

I did rodeo bull riding about ten years ago. The bulls were treated like athletes. Their care was generally much better than a typical pasture bull would get.

Way better treatment than the animals the end up on your grill get.

Well, you are clearly the expert. As always.

I'll just have to take your word for it. I'm still not interested in it. I also don't begrudge other people their preferences. It's just not for me. To each their own.

[CalSRQ1]

Originally Posted by KarlS

Circuses needed to evolve....Blue Ocean Strategy = Cirque de Soleil....as a young kid we knew nothing about the animals being mistreated...the sawdust, clowns, acrobats, lion tamerrs, trained dogs and all the excitement were good memories of growing up which my children will never experience...just real not computer generated fun and excitement

Agreed - Cirque is doing amazing shows and drawing crowds. Ringling got beat at their own game by relying on the same formula for decades and not changing with the times. I went a couple years ago and was not much different from when I was a kid.

[BristolCavendish]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Rodeo's don't harm animals.

Do 'flank straps' (compression bindings around an animal's abdomen) and high voltage cattle prods (to sometimes induce them out of the gate for rider safety) count as a form of animal abuse even though it is temporary? I used to enjoy rodeos (and still do to a certain extent) until a former amateur competitor/acquaintance told me what really goes on behind the scenes to 'liven up the show'.

[KarlS]

In an ideal world we could view animals in their natural habitat versus s zoo..in the real world millions of people would not benefit as who can afford some of those trips. Yes it's sad to see gorillas and monkeys bored out of their minds but I see the hundreds of school children, learning, drawing g and enjoying!

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by BristolCavendish

Do 'flank straps' (compression bindings around an animal's abdomen) and high voltage cattle prods (to sometimes induce them out of the gate for rider safety) count as a form of animal abuse even though it is temporary? I used to enjoy rodeos (and still do to a certain extent) until a former amateur competitor/acquaintance told me what really goes on with some animals to 'liven up the show'.

I don't know who your buddy is, but your description doesn't match any rodeo I've been to. The livestock typically perform weekly. They know the routine and are easily managed. It works more like a TSA queue than a slaughterhouse.

The flank strap doesn't injure the animal. It's uncomfortable and the animal tries to kick it off. That's why they buck. It's only used on the bucking stock.

[BristolCavendish]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

I don't know who your buddy is, but your description doesn't match any rodeo I've been to. The livestock typically perform weekly. They know the routine and are easily managed.

That's reassuring and I'll also take your word for it. Unfortunately I cannot get an account from the horses and bulls.

Originally Posted by superdog

i don't think it's ok to harm something, anything, because I think it's fun.

^^^^^ And that includes all of the lost souls who wager on dog/cockfights.

[AzHadEnuf]

Truth be told, as a kid, the clowns scared me.

IMG_3650.JPG

[T. Ferguson]

Ringling clung to a business model that was outdated and should have been changed years ago. From a production standpoint they really never did anything different even in the face of Cirque du Soleil with original music, lavish sets and lighting, innovative acts imaginatively choreographed and produced.

As for the animal rights issues, they could have, and should have, gotten out in front of that a long time ago if even strictly from a business standpoint. They were in a position to be in the forefront of progressive and ethical treatment of animals. But they just circled the wagons on that one.

[droptopman]

Originally Posted by AzHadEnuf

Truth be told, as a kid, the clowns scared me.



Attachment 818001

Lol, I hate clowns as an adult 🤡 It's more of a joke than anything but my friends are always messing with me about it.

Coulrophobia is the clinical term for fear of clowns.

[breitlings]

I went about two years ago back when they still had elephants. They did really good tricks. Not as good as 20 years ago. I would do a bunch of youtube sketches. Try to get some evergreen advertising dollars in before they dissolve the acts.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by BristolCavendish

That's reassuring and I'll also take your word for it. Unfortunately I cannot get an account from the horses and bulls.

The paramedics aren't there for the bulls, they're for the banged up cowboys. The bulls are in no worse shape after a ride than your dog playing frisbee. The riders, on the other hand, have about a 90% chance of catching an injury every time they get on. Over a season, 100% of the riders have at least one injury. I've never seen the bulls injured.

[2ltdjorn]

I still don't understand the hierarchy we as humans place on animals, despite the unjust we do unto others and the unborn.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by 2ltdjorn

i still don't understand the hierarchy we as humans place on animals, despite the unjust we do unto others and the unborn.

ibtl.

[CRM114]

One could easily make the case that the ownership and breeding of dogs as pets amounts to chattel slavery for the sole purpose of human entertainment, stand-in relationships, sport, or doing work humans don't want to do.

A wild dog doesn't heel, roll over, play dead, beg, ride a skateboard, or appear/win Britain's Got Talent, but nobody seems to have a problem with training dogs to do these unnatural acts on command in return for treats, or keeping them in captivity in small apartments or homes anytime they aren't on a human-supervised/led walkie.

[usood89]

Highly mistreated animals, abused and starved. Good riddance to the circus act.

[2ltdjorn]

Still this is the problem with modern society. A privilege of abundance.

We live in a world that has no value for individuals. We sequester our poor, elderly, and less than capable. Our families are fractioned. We have no common love, or concern for the well being of humanity.

However, despite this we care about the animals on the threatened and endangered list. We will protest for the rights of animals, and block municipalities from building in areas that threaten the smallest species.

Yet, our society and species continually demonstrates a lack of compassion and support for our own most vulnerable population.

We sequester our elderly into homes for the old/lame, we have ample methods to ensure unwanted pregnancies, however we still have abortions. We have more children in need of homes, yet the process for adoption is far costly, and more complicated than it should be.

I am sorry for being ill-compassionate towards the circus and their treatment towards animals, but they are indeed animals. I don't understand how one can fret about their misgivings but have no ill-feeling towards our own mistreatment of our own kind.

I am blessed. I had two parents who are married, and sacrificed everything for my siblings and I to prosper. I look at it as my personal responsibility to care for them in old age, not government or anything else. It's the least I can do, for all they gave for me. My wife and I have been blessed with two children, which came easily. A third has not. We have and are considering to grow our family through adoption. Being pro-life, whether for endangered animals or our own kind is not a "mix" match approach. I work in a setting as a healthcare provider working in the emergency room setting, I see daily young women who present with nausea and vomitng who often find they are a pregnant. Often at 16-24 weeks gestation, they have no interest in pursuing pregnancy and often tell me they will just get an abortion. My wife and I would be more than happy to open our homes for that child, and pay for everything so the mother would not be burden with the financial cost. I don't get why we have so much love and protection for animals, when we have no value in human life.

[keschete]

Amen!

[rr-nyc]

Originally Posted by TheRolexKingofLV

I'd have to agree as well.

Me too

[T. Ferguson]

Originally Posted by 2ltdjorn

Still this is the problem with modern society. A privilege of abundance...

While I understand what you are saying, the fact this thread is discussing animal rights does not automatically mean none of us have no concern for our fellow man. It's simply not the topic at hand is all. If we were talking about cures for cancer does that infer we don't care at all about AIDS or heart disease? I submit that it does not. This is a forum where we primarily discuss Rolex watches. Does that mean that no one here has any concerns about poverty or compassion for the poor?

[CRM114]

Originally Posted by BristolCavendish

That's reassuring and I'll also take your word for it. Unfortunately I cannot get an account from the horses and bulls.

^^^^^ And that includes all of the lost souls who wager on dog/cockfights.

If I've wagered on scorpions vs. camel spiders in a bucket, does that make me a bad person?

[Canook]

I cant really comment on Circus's as they are not overly abundant in Australia and the one and only one i saw was so small it farcical.
In saying that all the people wanting to ban Zoo's... depending on the "Zoo" some have their merits and the admission/attraction part is purely to fund research, breeding and education... generally the animals in alot of those zoos are there because they cannot survive in the wild for whatever reason.
However living in Asia now there is alot of zoo's here that are the complete opposite to that and should be shut down. I've seen how the elephants are treated in certain areas of Thailand and it is truly horrible but one of the worst things ive seen of late was a racoon.... yes a racoon in a crappy little zoo in Malaysia. It was in a tiny cage with no partner nor stimulation looking like it wanted to die with its matted fur.. not only does it not belong in this part of the world but (heat etc...) but there was no understanding on behalf of the park staff of what it was or what it needed. Truth be told it was prob imported as a pet and it got all too hard for them. Either way it had ZERO quality of life and as a human being i felt horrible as the "intelligent" species seeing this animal in this state..........

[bayerische]

Not a Circus fan. Nice to see a legacy of animal cruelty come to an end.