Vintage 1675 GMT Master Pepsi Question

[bharat]

Happy 4th of July to everyone! I've been smitten by the 1675 Pepsi GMT and I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on a purchase of a 1972 GMT Master 1675. The watch has recently been serviced by Rolex but the case and bracelet has not been polished. The dial was not replaced in this service, but looking at the watch and condition for its age, I feel that the dial must have been replaced at some point in its life.

Would you be able to take a look at this picture and let me know what you think? If it has been replaced, are there any experts on here who might be able to tell just by looking approximately how old the dial might be? Also, this reference and year comes with tritium indices and matte dial with white markers. Looking at the picture do you find that to be true? Looks good to me, but I'm relatively new to GMTs and so thought I would draw from the wisdom of the amazing TRF community. Thanks!

[bharat]

Another photo

[bharat]

Another shot

[bharat]

Last one

[Alex The Watch Guy]

The dial and insert have been replaced which means that the hands are most likely replacement as well.

Best of luck with your purchase.

[TimeToGo]

I would recommend getting more information on the watch to verify it is a 1972 production. Based on the picture and your information (1972), as Alex mentioned, it is a later production dial.

Also, I would not call the watch unpolished...

Do you know the partial serial number? Also a better picture of the dial..

[bharat]

Originally Posted by Alex The Watch Guy

The dial and insert have been replaced which means that the hands are most likely replacement as well.

Best of luck with your purchase.

That was my fear as well. It's a great piece but the dial and markers look way too new for the age of the watch. I didn't think the bezel insert was replaced though, it appears slightly faded if you observe closely. Why do you think that?

[bharat]

Originally Posted by TimeToGo

I would recommend getting more information on the watch to verify it is a 1972 production. Based on the picture and your information (1972), as Alex mentioned, it is a later production dial.

Also, I would not call the watch unpolished...

Do you know the partial serial number? Also a better picture of the dial..

Thanks. Yeah the pictures are not great. I'm trying to get some better quality close up pictures. I've also asked for a partial serial #, is there a way to tell the production year from the serial # ? My heart wants to buy this watch because it is beautiful, but my head says no because I could get a more naturally aged piece in a similar price range and similar vintage.

[TimeToGo]

Originally Posted by bharat

Thanks. Yeah the pictures are not great. I'm trying to get some better quality close up pictures. I've also asked for a partial serial #, is there a way to tell the production year from the serial # ? My heart wants to buy this watch because it is beautiful, but my head says no because I could get a more naturally aged piece in a similar price range and similar vintage.

For an idea on the production year, I use:

http://www.qualitytyme.net/pages/numbers.html

Also, if you open the caseback, it should have a date stamp if it is a 72 production year.

Since you are talking price, what is it being offered at?

[Alex The Watch Guy]

Originally Posted by bharat

That was my fear as well. It's a great piece but the dial and markers look way too new for the age of the watch. I didn't think the bezel insert was replaced though, it appears slightly faded if you observe closely. Why do you think that?

The thin font is a dead giveaway as to why it's a replacement. You can find faded inserts on modern GMTs as well.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by bharat

Thanks. Yeah the pictures are not great. I'm trying to get some better quality close up pictures. I've also asked for a partial serial #, is there a way to tell the production year from the serial # ? My heart wants to buy this watch because it is beautiful, but my head says no because I could get a more naturally aged piece in a similar price range and similar vintage.

Pretty closely, yes, and if it was made in 1972 or earlier the date (quarter and year) should be stamped inside the caseback. They stopped the date stamping in 1973 I think.

[bharat]

Originally Posted by TimeToGo

For an idea on the production year, I use:

http://www.qualitytyme.net/pages/numbers.html

Also, if you open the caseback, it should have a date stamp if it is a 72 production year.

Since you are talking price, what is it being offered at?

$5800 no box or papers. Steep right? However it was just completely serviced by Rolex and paperwork/receipt is there to prove that.

[bharat]

Originally Posted by Alex The Watch Guy

The thin font is a dead giveaway as to why it's a replacement. You can find faded inserts on modern GMTs as well.

Alex, sorry I don't comprehend. The thin font on the bezel insert seems consistent with the font of that vintage from what I can see. Maybe I'm not understanding correctly, but are you saying that original bezel inserts from 1972 have thicker or bolder font? It might very well be a replacement given how the dial and hands have been replaced as well, just want to understand the reasoning. Thanks.

[TimeToGo]

It is a plus that it was serviced. If you have a copy of the service receipt, that should have the serial number on it. Also, check the receipt to see if the hands are service replacement (luminova), i.e., they will glow in the dark.

Don't know if you would try to get it back to its original condition or just keep as is.

I would check the case a little better, looks like it has had some polish..

[bharat]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Pretty closely, yes, and if it was made in 1972 or earlier the date (quarter and year) should be stamped inside the caseback. They stopped the date stamping in 1973 I think.

Thanks Adam. I'm going to check this out. Hypothetically, let's say the case back said 1972 and the serial # matched up to the production year - would you say this is a worthwhile purchase? It's a vintage watch but looks faux-vintage from the outside. Ugh.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by bharat

Thanks Adam. I'm going to check this out. Hypothetically, let's say the case back said 1972 and the serial # matched up to the production year - would you say this is a worthwhile purchase? It's a vintage watch but looks faux-vintage from the outside. Ugh.

Bharat, if I were you, I'd skip this one, do a couple of weeks more homework, then try HQ Milton, and browse their website in the interim to get an idea of condition and cost.

[AS1]

Adam's advice is, as ever, spot on.

[bharat]

Originally Posted by TimeToGo

It is a plus that it was serviced. If you have a copy of the service receipt, that should have the serial number on it. Also, check the receipt to see if the hands are service replacement (luminova), i.e., they will glow in the dark.

Don't know if you would try to get it back to its original condition or just keep as is.

I would check the case a little better, looks like it has had some polish..

Thank you!

[bharat]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Bharat, if I were you, I'd skip this one, do a couple of weeks more homework, then try HQ Milton, and browse their website in the interim to get an idea of condition and cost.

Thanks Adam. That makes a lot of sense.

[bharat]

Originally Posted by AS1

Adam's advice is, as ever, spot on.

Thanks AS1

[joe100]

It's actually a nice looking watch. I've had 2 1675s, one all-original, the other with service dial. The service dial was my favorite. Looked so crisp. However, the price on this piece is just too much.

[TimeToGo]

You are doing the right thing with asking prior to purchase. Plenty of sites available to compare prices, even the Bay. Here to help!

[lhanddds]

The beauty of vintage watches is in the patina an original parts, if possible. Don't shortside yourself and for that price, I think you could do better.

[bharat]

Thanks all. What do you think is the reason why owners or service centers switch out original dials for service dials? Is it just people wanting a newer looking watch?

[springer]

Originally Posted by AS1

Adam's advice is, as ever, spot on.

Case back date stamps ended in 1972 not 1973!

[springer]

The dial appears to be a later, 1970s Mark V dial and the insert appears to be later than 1972. 1972 was the last year for case back stamps and serial numbers ranged from around 3.0 million to 3.5 million for 1972.

[madmax21]

it's a great looking piece but I also believe that the dial was replaced at some point by looking at it looks much to good of shape to be the original

[frankyb]

Keep in mind that service by Rolex on a watch of that vintage and model will cost somewhere around $1,000 US and take 30 days. My 1977 rootbeer GMT 1675 just cost me that. I am pleased with the watch. So, yes you can get a similar watch around $5k, without band slightly less but then you have to add for service. The fact that Rolex just serviced it pretty much guarantees it is 100% authentic Rolex as they will not service it otherwise. A watch just serviced by someone other than Rolex cannot offer the same validation. It is a handsome watch indeed! Service by Rolex helps future value as it is rare to find a watch of that vintage with the original papers. This official service record is the next best thing.

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sub gold, sub tt, sub ss, exp white, exp black, daytona white, daytona black, gmt tt rooter, gmt pepsi, milieus, yacht-master, date just, 5500, day/date gold

[madmax21]

by looking at it in the pictures is always harder to tell. I believe that both dial and hands have been serviced replaced but it's a vintage watch I think is a handsome piece which I would love to put in my collection as well and I've never really worried about whether or not the dial is original just enjoy to watch

[bharat]

Originally Posted by frankyb

Keep in mind that service by Rolex on a watch of that vintage and model will cost somewhere around $1,000 US and take 30 days. My 1977 rootbeer GMT 1675 just cost me that. I am pleased with the watch. So, yes you can get a similar watch around $5k, without band slightly less but then you have to add for service. The fact that Rolex just serviced it pretty much guarantees it is 100% authentic Rolex as they will not service it otherwise. A watch just serviced by someone other than Rolex cannot offer the same validation. It is a handsome watch indeed! Service by Rolex helps future value as it is rare to find a watch of that vintage with the original papers. This official service record is the next best thing.

—————————————————————
sub gold, sub tt, sub ss, exp white, exp black, daytona white, daytona black, gmt tt rooter, gmt pepsi, milieus, yacht-master, date just, 5500, day/date gold

That's a really good point. Yes I saw the receipt for the service and it was definitely slightly upwards of $1000. I'm trying to justify every scenario to buy this watch, but the reality is that I'm not totally in love with it because of the non-natural aged look of something from this vintage. The Pepsi GMT is something close to my heart because of the fact that I've traveled extensively growing up and presently have family living in a few different time zones.