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Old 2 December 2016, 02:17 AM   #1
GMT Aviator
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PROOF....Rolex keep stolen serial number records.

Hello everyone..

Well today I received an unwelcome call from my local RSC here in the UK advising me they are retaining a watch I took there for service two days ago.

The watch is a Rolex GMT Master 2, 16710, K series from 2001.

I purchased it 10 days ago from a trusted seller on ebay who deals with high end watches. For my peace of mind after receiving it, I took it straight to RSC as it was in need of a proper service. The manual wind wasn't buttery smooth and I wanted the handset replaced. I also wanted to flag the 'stolen or not' status of the watch now, rather than in a year or twos time when I take it to RSC inevitably at a later date. Finding out then that it has been stolen would be a disaster as trying to make a claim against the seller after a certain period would be likely futile. Best to know now.

Anyway , this morning, RSC call me to tell me they're holding onto the watch as their record show it as stolen in Cologne, Germany in 2003!

So if you ever needed proof that Rolex do indeed keep a register of stolen watches, this is it.

To say I'm saddened is an understatement and now begins the process of trying to reclaim my money back. I have contacted the seller and he too was shocked and has said verbally on the phone he will return my money once he sees the proof from Rolex that they have indeed held the watch back.

I am being advised that Rolex Geneva are being contacted who will forward the information onto Rolex Germany and I am now in limbo land regarding what happens next.

I've spent the entire day scanning and emailing proof of purchase, receipt showing serial number of the watch where and when i purchased it and told everyone I need to tell whats happened and am now awaiting a refund. I just hope its forthcoming.

My advise to anyone who ever buys a second hand Rolex is that you can't be too careful. I've purchased a number of Rolex in this fashion before and never had a problem, but have been caught out with this one. Box and Papers or not, a trip to the RSC seems to me the only sure fire way to check that you've actually bought a watch that does or doesn't have an undesirable history to it.

I do it every time with second hand Rolex and I'm glad I did with this one NOW, so as to prevent the problem biting me on the backside later on when trying to make a claim for a refund will be out of the question

The watch concerned is pictured below......
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Old 2 December 2016, 02:31 AM   #2
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Sorry to hear that, but it is great practice that Rolex do do such things. Think if it had been your stolen watch.

Now you must wait to learn who owns the watch, the original owner, or if an insurance company paid out on it, they own it.
If no one claims it, then it would be returned to you.

I am not sure under UK law what recourse you have with the seller, but hopefully you will get a full refund - I hope so.

Keep us informed and good luck
adam
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Old 2 December 2016, 02:39 AM   #3
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is anything on ebay NOT fake or stolen?
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Old 2 December 2016, 02:44 AM   #4
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Not sure how you paid for the watch but it got me to thinking... Does/would Paypal afford any protection against such things?
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Old 2 December 2016, 02:50 AM   #5
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Not sure how you paid for the watch but it got me to thinking... Does/would Paypal afford any protection against such things?
Probably, surely worth checking and good point
adam
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Old 2 December 2016, 03:47 AM   #6
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that sucks!

curious to see how this resolves itself.
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Old 2 December 2016, 03:51 AM   #7
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I take it Rolex will not release this information over the phone if you provide serial number? Both have sides which benefit. If you buy say 2 year old watch i would wait 2-3 years to send for service therefore I would want to check to see if it was stolen. The other way round if they were able to tell you over the phone if it was stolen more than likely the owner would not send it in as it would be seized. is there a way to check BEFORE you purchase? I have often heard some dealers (Not AD) saying they need to check it's not stolen before they buy a watch from someone
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Old 2 December 2016, 03:54 AM   #8
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is anything on ebay NOT fake or stolen?


I bought a hammer 18 months ago, and it's definitely a hammer?


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Old 2 December 2016, 03:57 AM   #9
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I bought a hammer 18 months ago, and it's definitely a hammer?


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If it's definitely a hammer then it must be a stolen hammer
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Old 2 December 2016, 03:58 AM   #10
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I bought a hammer 18 months ago, and it's definitely a hammer?


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Have you weighed it first to make sure it's 100% hammer
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Old 2 December 2016, 03:59 AM   #11
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Sorry to hear OP by the way....hopefully you get the refund quickly
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Old 2 December 2016, 04:19 AM   #12
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I would imagine receiving stolen merchandise is a peril that PayPal would recapture your funds for. If it is a big Ebay powerseller who makes their living selling high end watches there I am sure they will make it right as soon as they see Rolex in indeed detaining the watch. If not I am sure PayPal will side with the OP. (Buyer)

Sucks that happened. Looks to be a really clean Coke.


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Old 2 December 2016, 04:40 AM   #13
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At this point I don't think its appropriate to divulge too many details, but fear not, once this is resolved one way or another I will be posting a follow up on here.

Rolex will NOT do serial number checks prior to purchase, which in some ways is a shame, however, this watch being caught like it has been, is testament that they do something rather than nothing.

Ultimately I would like to keep the watch if that is at all possible but it depends on a number of factors now outside my control, so I have to roll with it and see what happens.

To protect myself I've clearly had to let ebay and my credit card company know. My Credit card company have always been helpful in the past when life throws a hic-cup like this, so hopefully they will come through this time.
At the end of the day, according to Rolex, I have been sold stolen goods and there is a healthy paperwork trail to prove that which all parties are now in possession of.

As gladiator posts above, if no one claims it then it may become mine again after all, but if that is to be the case, then I must ask of Rolex what records will be kept pertaining to this watch if it passes to my ownership. I don't wish to own a watch that has a 'stolen then recovered' caveat hanging over it every time it pops up for service with any RSC.

More than thirteen years have passed since this watch was declared stolen with Rolex in Germany. Thats a long time so it will be interesting to see where this goes, but it is an interest I'd rather not be involved in if I'm honest.

Apparently, said RSC where this was taken to be serviced have had two this week come in as reported stolen.....mine and another which was bought in being recorded as stolen in Belgium. I don't know what the other watch type was.
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Old 2 December 2016, 05:08 AM   #14
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You seem to know what needs to be done.
If Rolex release the watch, it will come off their stolen register, to come off, neither the original owner nor the insurance company (if one exists) lays claim to it. .

The next weeks will prove frustrating, I am sure.
But you should make an immediate claim against Paypal, because you do not have the good, through NO fault of your own

Sincerely
Adam
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Old 2 December 2016, 05:42 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GLADIATOR View Post
You seem to know what needs to be done.
If Rolex release the watch, it will come off their stolen register, to come off, neither the original owner nor the insurance company (if one exists) lays claim to it. .

The next weeks will prove frustrating, I am sure.
But you should make an immediate claim against Paypal, because you do not have the good, through NO fault of your own

Sincerely
Adam
Thanks Adam

I'm sure you're right and I'm already pacing the halls in frustration. Although I used Paypal to complete the transaction via ebay, I in fact paid using an AMEX card. Amex have been informed and so have ebay who via telephone today have assured me they will seek a refund from the seller and I have filed an ebay dispute and made the seller aware. The lady from Eaby also made it clear I was covered by their ebay money back guarantee.
I cant see how my claim cannot be disputed when I have bills of sale from the seller and paperwork from Rolex acknowledging receipt of the watch when I dropped it in for service, and further letter from Rolex which explains that the watch is stolen. ALL the paperwork for everything has the serial number of the watch on it, so the trail is easily followed.
The seller via telephone was apologetic and said he would return the money but asked to see the paperwork from Rolex which supports my claim. This information I have sent to him. He seemed perfectly reasonable on the phone, although, like me, almost is disbelief of whats happened.
Hopefully I will have news on this next week..
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Old 2 December 2016, 05:45 AM   #16
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You are doing everything correctly.
Just follow everything up each day. Ebay and PayPal can drop the ball.

A
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Old 2 December 2016, 05:52 AM   #17
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Good luck!

Please keep us updated.
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Old 2 December 2016, 07:44 AM   #18
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Wow, what a story. Thanks for taking the time to share it with us. I hope everything work out for you and the next few weeks fly by.
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Old 2 December 2016, 08:59 AM   #19
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As somebody who has had a Rolex(ladies Pearlmaster)stolen from them some years ago,this thread gives me hope.
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Old 2 December 2016, 09:43 AM   #20
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Nice watch you had there. That sucks, hope it gets resolved and your refund is forthcoming. I don't think any of us were not sure Rolex kept a database of stolen watches. It's pretty well understood they do. One reason a watch with a recent RSC service in the seller's name is a good thing to see when buying a used piece. If the seller should try to pull a double cross and claim it was stolen you have proof you bought it from him fair and square.

Good luck.
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Old 2 December 2016, 04:31 PM   #21
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Sorry that this has happened to you.

The only news to me is that Rolex can cross-check the national databases on a larger scale.
Some time ago, someone came up saying that e.g. Rolex UK would only be able to check their UK database but not e.g. Germany.

That is apparently not the case.
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Old 2 December 2016, 11:41 PM   #22
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This brings up an interesting issue. If you're a crook theoretically you could go into an AD and look at a few watches, get the serial numbers, and then a year later report them stolen. So imagine this; years later the watch is sold by the original owner to a private party, then it goes in for service and Rolex sees your original report of it being stolen. Opens a big can of worms.
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Old 2 December 2016, 11:43 PM   #23
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This brings up an interesting issue. If you're a crook theoretically you could go into an AD and look at a few watches, get the serial numbers, and then a year later report them stolen. So imagine this; years later the watch is sold by the original owner to a private party, then it goes in for service and Rolex sees your original report of it being stolen. Opens a big can of worms.
I assume that at some point or another someone will have to offer some kind of proof of ownership.

I'm sure a crook would have no problem doctoring something up, but it may be a long shot and risky move.
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Old 2 December 2016, 11:50 PM   #24
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This brings up an interesting issue. If you're a crook theoretically you could go into an AD and look at a few watches, get the serial numbers, and then a year later report them stolen. So imagine this; years later the watch is sold by the original owner to a private party, then it goes in for service and Rolex sees your original report of it being stolen. Opens a big can of worms.
This is a valid point and I can only assume that Rolex circumvent this issue by requiring a documented police report that offers proof of theft, or, supporting evidence from an insurance claim that has paid out relative to the same? I expect Rolex have to study any entries they make into their 'stolen' database carefully on a case by case basis?
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Old 2 December 2016, 11:52 PM   #25
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This is a valid point and I can only assume that Rolex circumvent this issue by requiring a documented police report that offers proof of theft, or, supporting evidence from an insurance claim that has paid out relative to the same? I expect Rolex have to study any entries they make into their 'stolen' database carefully on a case by case basis?
That is correct, you will need a police report in order for Rolex to approve it.
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Old 2 December 2016, 11:53 PM   #26
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Quote:
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This brings up an interesting issue. If you're a crook theoretically you could go into an AD and look at a few watches, get the serial numbers, and then a year later report them stolen. So imagine this; years later the watch is sold by the original owner to a private party, then it goes in for service and Rolex sees your original report of it being stolen. Opens a big can of worms.
Terrible to think someone would be so crooked. I'd hope Rolex would trace down to original AD to see who watch sold to and when.
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Old 3 December 2016, 01:46 AM   #27
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This brings up an interesting issue. If you're a crook theoretically you could go into an AD and look at a few watches, get the serial numbers, and then a year later report them stolen. So imagine this; years later the watch is sold by the original owner to a private party, then it goes in for service and Rolex sees your original report of it being stolen. Opens a big can of worms.
You need a police report!
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Old 3 December 2016, 01:52 AM   #28
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Terrible to think someone would be so crooked. I'd hope Rolex would trace down to original AD to see who watch sold to and when.
Questions from a Newbie. Can this situation ( reported stolen watch ) happen to a Rolex you buy from a "Trusted Seller" through TRF ? Especially watches without proper papers. Do most "Trusted Sellers" check for stolen watches before listing them for sale here ? And if they do, beside doing a Google search with serial number , how else can they to the checking ? A phone call to Rolex will not work, and there is no central listing for stolen Rolex available to the public.
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Old 3 December 2016, 02:09 AM   #29
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Questions from a Newbie. Can this situation ( reported stolen watch ) happen to a Rolex you buy from a "Trusted Seller" through TRF ? Especially watches without proper papers. Do most "Trusted Sellers" check for stolen watches before listing them for sale here ? And if they do, beside doing a Google search with serial number , how else can they to the checking ? A phone call to Rolex will not work, and there is no central listing for stolen Rolex available to the public.
It can happen to anyone who does not buy new from an AD.

There is no guarantee. There are stolen registers, but Rolex's is private.
If OP gave me the serial number I can check on the stolen register.

Adam
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Old 3 December 2016, 03:09 AM   #30
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This brings up an interesting issue. If you're a crook theoretically you could go into an AD and look at a few watches, get the serial numbers, and then a year later report them stolen. So imagine this; years later the watch is sold by the original owner to a private party, then it goes in for service and Rolex sees your original report of it being stolen. Opens a big can of worms.
Yes, that could happen. But the perp would need to file a false police report. While a pain in the arse, your scenario is not that problematic since you are talking about the original owner. He has a bill of sale as well as a warranty card, both in his name. And his AD can back him up that he bought the watch.
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