Rolex Tiffany Archive Papers

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by baumare

Ok guys please stop the argument, I'm here to solve the problem!
In the pic below is me at NYC Tiffany last floor waiting to talk to the rep for my "archive certificate"
Next step RSC at 665 5th avenue.
Wish me luck

Attachment 1190846

What a beautiful watch. I hope you get what you are looking for. Good luck!
If the entire watch is genuine, one would expect the movement to be marked with ROW?

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by joli160

Just let it go Richard, don’t feed the trolls.

This.

#carverforpresident

[GoingPlaces]

Again, does Rolex have records of EACH watch ever produced since the relationship with Tiffany's began and the specific distribution channel for that piece. If so then perhaps, but aren't we talking 40 million plus+ pieces?

[Richard Carver]

Originally Posted by GoingPlaces

Again, does Rolex have records of EACH watch ever produced since the relationship with Tiffany's began and the specific distribution channel for that piece. If so then perhaps, but aren't we talking 40 million plus+ pieces?

Rolex knows where they were sent but dealers swap inventory at will. If Rolex knew where they were sold the gray market wouldn't exist. :)

[TimeLord2]

This thread has turned out to be high drama but still quite interesting and informative. Definitely interested in an updated from Mario! And that is a lovely Sea Dweller!

[zapokee]

Most predictable ban ever.

[Rolex tom]

I have no idea how Rolex go about their business but I’d imagine they have what most brands have and that’s a online resource used by the diag teams, case Dismantlers and watchmaker alike that will have all references matched up to the correct product.
This is pure conjecture on my part but surely Rolex would be able to discern the difference between a Rolex 6239 Tiffany and a regular one. They would have needed to know how many Rolex Tiffany dial watches they were making. Without some way of telling the two apart they’d have no idea. (I don’t believe for a minute Tiffany printed there own, that just doesn’t make sense to me)

As said I have no concrete proof, just my two cents. I’d love know how this all pans out.

[TimeLord2]

@baumare had the last word on the question of whether this is a thing… The lack of a follow-up is telling. Will Tiffany & Co verify the serial number of the Rolex they sold? Only time will tell! Check back next week! same Bat time! Same Bat channel? Always thought that was a good cliff hanger. Sorry…

[indianmachine]

I reached out to archives@tiffany.com to learn more about this service, and unfortunately it looks like a serial number won't be included on any output. From my exchange with them:

"Please see attached for the necessary paperwork to schedule your Commissioned Research Request for your Rolex.



Please note that our Commissioned Research for Watches includes a Certificate of the Research completed, which does not validate the authenticity of the Watch. The Watch Certificate will not include the Serial Number of the watch being researched, but will outline the Watch Title, Model Name, and Reference Number and be accompanied by the Archive’s official seal and signature of our Head Archivist.



If you have any questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to reach back out. Thank you again for your interest in Tiffany & Co.’s history, and have a lovely holiday season.
"

[baumare]

Originally Posted by indianmachine

I reached out to archives@tiffany.com to learn more about this service, and unfortunately it looks like a serial number won't be included on any output. From my exchange with them:

"Please see attached for the necessary paperwork to schedule your Commissioned Research Request for your Rolex.



Please note that our Commissioned Research for Watches includes a Certificate of the Research completed, which does not validate the authenticity of the Watch. The Watch Certificate will not include the Serial Number of the watch being researched, but will outline the Watch Title, Model Name, and Reference Number and be accompanied by the Archive’s official seal and signature of our Head Archivist.



If you have any questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to reach back out. Thank you again for your interest in Tiffany & Co.’s history, and have a lovely holiday season.
"

That's good, at least you got an answer, I haven't hear from them yet.
Why you think they're not including the serial number? Without It's even more dangerous because it could be attached to any watch with the same model and reference...
The Phillip Auction certificate came with the serial number written on it, I'm wondering if they already change policy...

[swish77]

Originally Posted by indianmachine

I reached out to archives@tiffany.com to learn more about this service, and unfortunately it looks like a serial number won't be included on any output. From my exchange with them:

"Please see attached for the necessary paperwork to schedule your Commissioned Research Request for your Rolex.



Please note that our Commissioned Research for Watches includes a Certificate of the Research completed, which does not validate the authenticity of the Watch. The Watch Certificate will not include the Serial Number of the watch being researched, but will outline the Watch Title, Model Name, and Reference Number and be accompanied by the Archive’s official seal and signature of our Head Archivist.

Weird. The Tiffany archive paperwork for the Daytona auctioned by Phillips clearly includes a serial number (see photo posted way back at the beginning of the thread). Wonder what Tiffany would say if you pointed that out and emailed them a photo of the paperwork they provided to Phillips.

In terms of Tiffany’s inability to confirm actual authenticity of a watch, that makes total sense. They’d be able to confirm that a vintage Tiffany-branded Rolex was sold by them, but they wouldn’t know what’s happened to the watch in the decades since that time, whether parts/movement etc... were swapped with other parts, for example. Tiffany doesn’t get the watch in hand to inspect. They’d just research whether they once sold it based on serial and reference numbers. Authenticating a Rolex and its parts is a different matter.

[miamiclay]

“The Watch Certificate will not include the Serial Number of the watch being researched”

This from Tiffany is utterly illogical. Without the serial number, all any Tiffany Watch Certificate is saying is “Tiffany sold some Rolex Submariners”? (or Day-Dates, or whatever)

Everyone already knows that much, and it requires no research by Tiffany. If they are researching the watch by serial number, why not put that number on their certificate? I can certainly understand their being unwilling to authenticate any particular Tiffany dial *stamp*, but this is just bizarre.

[1665fan]

Lol, does not validate authenticity.....it’s not worth the paper it’s printed on then

[TimeLord2]

Originally Posted by 1665fan

Lol, does not validate authenticity.....it’s not worth the paper it’s printed on then

I would have to agree with that summation. Or in other words, Tiffany branded toilet paper. $1,000 a roll!

[Richard Carver]

Are you saying you haven't repeatedly claimed Rolex verifies every Tiffany co-brand it services? You have provided proof? What proof have you provided your claim is true?

Any actual collector knows gray dealers have been around about as long as ADs have. It says a lot about your actual experience to make that claim. :) Troll? Are you saying I called you a troll? As with all your other assertions let's see some proof. :)

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

Are you saying you haven't repeatedly claimed Rolex verifies every Tiffany co-brand it services? You have provided proof? What proof have you provided your claim is true?

Any actual collector knows gray dealers have been around about as long as ADs have. It says a lot about your actual experience to make that claim. :) Troll? Are you saying I called you a troll? As with all your other assertions let's see some proof. :)

He didn't claim YOU called him a troll. He was responding to Joli160's post: "Just let it go Richard, don’t feed the trolls." which was aimed at him.

[330ci]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

Are you saying you haven't repeatedly claimed Rolex verifies every Tiffany co-brand it services? You have provided proof? What proof have you provided your claim is true?

Any actual collector knows gray dealers have been around about as long as ADs have. It says a lot about your actual experience to make that claim. :) Troll? Are you saying I called you a troll? As with all your other assertions let's see some proof. :)

I have no reason to believe Rolex would service a watch with dials of questionable origin if they were not able to verify their authenticity, I however have never claimed to have proof of this in practice. you have stated numerous times that Rolex has serviced thousands of these fake tiffany & co stamped dials, and I can't find proof of any of these instances. just one documented case would be enough for me to completely recant my beliefs. I'd love my beliefs to be proven wrong, but unfortunately that would require you to substantiate your claims.

[Richard Carver]

Originally Posted by 330ci

I have no reason to believe Rolex would service a watch with dials of questionable origin if they were not able to verify their authenticity, I however have never claimed to have proof of this in practice. you have stated numerous times that Rolex has serviced thousands of these fake tiffany & co stamped dials, and I can't find proof of any of these instances. just one documented case would be enough for me to completely recant my beliefs. I'd love my beliefs to be proven wrong, but unfortunately that would require you to substantiate your claims.

LOL,so your 'belief' is your proof? Apparently even Tiffany won't actually provide a serial number to substantiate it's one of theirs when they take your 1000 bucks but you think Rolex can do it. Here's econ 101 for you, when the dealer pays Rolex for their shipment those watches belong to the dealer. Rolex' wishes can't supplant the law of the land, shocking I know :)

I know you keep ducking this because it proves you have no idea what you're talking about but the long time existence of the gray market proves once those watches become property of the AD Rolex no longer has control and has no idea how those watches are sold..

If Rolex could do what you 'believe' there would be no gray market. :)

[330ci]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

LOL,so your 'belief' is your proof? Apparently even Tiffany won't actually provide a serial number to substantiate it's one of theirs when they take your 1000 bucks but you think Rolex can do it. Here's econ 101 for you, when the dealer pays Rolex for their shipment those watches belong to the dealer. Rolex' wishes can't supplant the law of the land, shocking I know :)

I know you keep ducking this because it proves you have no idea what you're talking about but the long time existence of the gray market proves once those watches become property of the AD Rolex no longer has control and has no idea how those watches are sold..

If Rolex could do what you 'believe' there would be no gray market. :)

I think the concept your failing to grasp here is that without proof, everything you've said is nothing but your beliefs either. and you expect me to believe that your beliefs are truth without backing up any of your claims.

it's well known Rolex won't service modified or aftermarket parts on their watches.
it's fraud/illegal to stamp Tiffany & co if it wasn't done by an authorized retailer.
Rolex servicing illegally stamped watches versus changing dials seems pretty logical. Why would this be the only modification they allow people to do to their watch?(other than caseback inscriptions which have been commonplace on watches back to the 1700's from what i've seen)


my beliefs would have no effect on the grey market. The grey market has to do with new goods purchased from a retailer, sold at either a discount or in modern times for profit. how Tiffany and Co dispersed their product after arrival to their facilities is irrelevant to this conversation entirely.

[Richard Carver]

Originally Posted by 330ci

I think the concept your failing to grasp here is that without proof, everything you've said is nothing but your beliefs either. and you expect me to believe that your beliefs are truth without backing up any of your claims.

it's well known Rolex won't service modified or aftermarket parts on their watches.
it's fraud/illegal to stamp Tiffany & co if it wasn't done by an authorized retailer.
Rolex servicing illegally stamped watches versus changing dials seems pretty logical. Why would this be the only modification they allow people to do to their watch?(other than caseback inscriptions which have been commonplace on watches back to the 1700's from what i've seen)


my beliefs would have no effect on the grey market. The grey market has to do with new goods purchased from a retailer, sold at either a discount or in modern times for profit. how Tiffany and Co dispersed their product after arrival to their facilities is irrelevant to this conversation entirely.

Proof? How about 30 years of it never happening? No one has ever complained Rolex wouldn't service their Tiffany stamped watch and no one has stepped forward with an estimate refusing to service a Tiffany stamped watch.

The danger you present is the likelihood of another noob like you believing what you have repeatedly stated and paying a big premium for a Rolex serviced watch with a Tiffany stamped dial that may even have been placed in the watch after the service, no way to tell.

It would be hilarious if you got sued every year or so by someone who believed you until he tried to sell his "Rolex approved Tiffany dial" because of your adamant assurances throughout this thread. ;)

Good luck. :)

[GoingPlaces]

What happens to a watch that is sent to Rolex for service that has had a dial swap? If someone were to say, pick up an authentic dial from a third party (not RSC) and replace it wouldn’t Rolex still service the watch if the dial was both authentic and NOT original to that watch? Or would they kick it back because the dial was swapped out without their “knowledge or consent”?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[baumare]

Originally Posted by GoingPlaces

What happens to a watch that is sent to Rolex for service that has had a dial swap? If someone were to say, pick up an authentic dial from a third party (not RSC) and replace it wouldn’t Rolex still service the watch if the dial was both authentic and NOT original to that watch? Or would they kick it back because the dial was swapped out without their “knowledge or consent”?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They will service as long as it is an original dial, there are no numbers on the dial itself that can be associated with a particular watch. Even RSC used to swap dial at buyer request

[330ci]

Originally Posted by GoingPlaces

What happens to a watch that is sent to Rolex for service that has had a dial swap? If someone were to say, pick up an authentic dial from a third party (not RSC) and replace it wouldn’t Rolex still service the watch if the dial was both authentic and NOT original to that watch? Or would they kick it back because the dial was swapped out without their “knowledge or consent”?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rolex-x-Tif...4AAOSwQC1f3YLe


not sure, but this one's likely authentic, slightly damaged so i imagine they would request replacement if sent in, I don't believe they will service 1603's anymore either, but this theory would be fairly easy to test out if someone felt like blowing a few thousand dollars.

[harry in montreal]

Unless you have a Rolex warrantee paper that cites your ‘tiffany’ dial, I say it is BS. What stops me from servicing my 1601 with a rsc, then using my nice Bergeron tools, open the back, remove the movement and insert my ‘tiffany’ dial?

Nothing.

In fact, that is exactly what has happened routinely. without robust provenance that describes the item exactly, you have absolutely nothing.

I think you should enjoy your tiffany dialed watch, but be prepared for a tough sell when you get bored with it.

[GoingPlaces]

Originally Posted by harry in montreal

Unless you have a Rolex warrantee paper that cites your ‘tiffany’ dial, I say it is BS. What stops me from servicing my 1601 with a rsc, then using my nice Bergeron tools, open the back, remove the movement and insert my ‘tiffany’ dial?

Nothing.

In fact, that is exactly what has happened routinely. without robust provenance that describes the item exactly, you have absolutely nothing.

I think you should enjoy your tiffany dialed watch, but be prepared for a tough sell when you get bored with it.

Agree, after all this back and forth it's safe to say no serious watch person is going to premium up for a T dialed Rolex without proper papers. A service receipt from RSC stating the watch was serviced means nothing with regards to a T stamp.

[baumare]

Originally Posted by harry in montreal

Unless you have a Rolex warrantee paper that cites your ‘tiffany’ dial, I say it is BS. What stops me from servicing my 1601 with a rsc, then using my nice Bergeron tools, open the back, remove the movement and insert my ‘tiffany’ dial?

Nothing.

In fact, that is exactly what has happened routinely. without robust provenance that describes the item exactly, you have absolutely nothing.

I think you should enjoy your tiffany dialed watch, but be prepared for a tough sell when you get bored with it.

I completely agree with you, and as you said I'm ready to a tough sell in case I want to get rid off it, actually my Seadweller is so beautiful and with a nice patina, that often I regret the T stamp on the dial.
Having said that, if by any miracle RSC was "hypothetically" able to tell me in writing (I know, impossible...:( that that particular serial number was indeed originally sent to Tiffany, the situation will be different in my eye/opinion.

As I said this is all hypothetical because Rolex will never tell me that, even though I believe they have record of what when where, but not where the watch was actually sold because of the AD trading/exchange

[harry in montreal]

I’m just bitter at the quantity of fake Tudor subs being sold on eBay from japan. Sorry if I appear cranky. I along with Richard create lots ofposts on here just to spread the word of reason ans hope others don’t get ripped off. Seems like there are a few people like 330 who understand their T dial and this is what counts. I just get disgusted at people selling fake junk for big bucks. We can all debate this on a logical or semi intellectual level without much success. I just would like to prevent the little guy from paying an extra $2k for that label if he doesn’t understand how easy it is to create it unscrupulously

[baumare]

Originally Posted by harry in montreal

I along with Richard create lots ofposts on here just to spread the word of reason ans hope others don’t get ripped off.

I definitely give you guys credit, if I just knew about the Forum and read discussion like this before, I wouldn't have bought it...

[dhknola]

I would be quite cautious on this one...Love the blurred out photo of the evidence it's Tiffany.

[SVC]

Originally Posted by dhknola

I would be quite cautious on this one...Love the blurred out photo of the evidence it's Tiffany.

Yes, definitely an interesting effect... let me see if I get anywhere asking about the RSC invoice.