Do not buy from SwissWatchExpo

[2th Dr]

Originally Posted by dieseldragon

I think that this is all getting out of hand. If you buy something secondhand, it is not going to be as it was supplied from the factory. The size of the bracelet was stated and the pictures showed it. There are numerous watches for sale on this forum that show pictures of bracelets, some show the extra links or say that there are extra links, others don't.

If you buy secondhand, its is not new, so don't expect it to be as new. If you want that, then buy new.

The listing also has no mention of hang tags or other accessories it would have been supplied with, but you are not complaining about these not being present. You got exactly what you were shown in the advert.

Uh, I couldn't care less about hang tags,etc. It adds nothing to the value of the watch. Didn't come with papers either, but it's past the warranty period, so again, couldn't care less.Links, on the other hand, have significant value. I paid a premium for this watch, as I've seen other here and on the internet for much less, so unless the ad says "missing links", I expect to get 13 links.

[JPersat]

Mark, I still agree. Pay a premium for a watch, it damn well better have all the links. But if you do hit a dead end with these clowns, there is always Steve M.

[imono]

Originally Posted by 2th DR

so unless the ad says "missing links", I expect to get 13 links.

This is a whole new ball game.
99% of the sellers here do not state "missing links".
So what do we make of that?
Most sellers do not know if a link has been removed before putting up their watches for sale.
I don't think it is fair game to punish them and say "hey where is my missing link".

[Mosco]

I have posted a Breitling Datora before where I had no idea how many links it was supposed to have total, so I listed the wrist size it would fit and took many pics of the sides, so everything is visible. Having said that, when the customer who bought the watch said that it was too tight, I did find him another link.

[cajunron]

I think that before anyone makes such an expensive purchase from someone else, you should make a list of questions for the seller. "Has the watch been serviced?", "Does it include all of the original links?", "Does it have aftermarket bracelet or parts?", etc.. Not everyone will be honest I suppose, but if they downright lie to you, then that's outright fraud. You should cover your bases. And buy from a trusted TRF seller!

[Tridor]

Originally Posted by imono

This is a whole new ball game.
99% of the sellers here do not state "missing links".
So what do we make of that?
Most sellers do not know if a link has been removed before putting up their watches for sale.
I don't think it is fair game to punish them and say "hey where is my missing link".

Baloney! The seller here is experienced and admits that he KNEW the watch was missing links. He just failed or refused to disclose that fact. Don't let this guy off the hook. He either knew or had reason to know what he was doing, he just got caught and will likely lose a whole lot of business because of two links, lousy customer service, and one of the biggest pieces of bullsh*t written in defense of unacceptable conduct I've ever read. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

[simonmcc]

If your selling your own watch and it's not a business then I guess it excusable, but as a good will gesture as a proper business then personally I would just send a couple of links out and going forward start to state the amount of links with the watch. Also the abuse in response is unbelievable. I had it once after buying a BMW from a second hand dealer over some simple queries and it leaves you shocked and angry.

[2th Dr]

Originally Posted by Tridor

Baloney! The seller here is experienced and admits that he KNEW the watch was missing links. He just failed or refused to disclose that fact. Don't let this guy off the hook. He either knew or had reason to know what he was doing, he just got caught and will likely lose a whole lot of business because of two links, lousy customer service, and one of the biggest pieces of bullsh*t written in defense of unacceptable conduct I've ever read. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

Exactly. He knows darn well how many links it's supposed to have. If one of the power sellers here did this (which we all know they would NEVER do), no one here would have a problem with it? Please!

[2th Dr]

Originally Posted by imono

This is a whole new ball game.
99% of the sellers here do not state "missing links".
So what do we make of that?
Most sellers do not know if a link has been removed before putting up their watches for sale.
I don't think it is fair game to punish them and say "hey where is my missing link".

That's because they generally don't sell watches that are missing links, and when they do, they disclose that fact.

[Welshwatchman]

At the very least the seller could from herein state the specific number of links and the wrist fitment size (allowing a 5mm gap for "breathing" space).

This would obviate the need for extra/remove/missing statements.

If a watch is advertised as having 10 links and comfortably fitting a 7.5" wrist then that's it.

Further links available at extra cost.

In the meantime the smart thing to do is pop a link in the post, free of charge out of goodwill.

[Zirotti]

Question: did you get the watch exactly as it was pictured in the ad/listing?

[2th Dr]

Originally Posted by Zirotti

Question: did you get the watch exactly as it was pictured in the ad/listing?

Moot point. I've bought watches before, based on just the description. Pictures are only an aid. As an example, I don't make a diagnosis based on radiographs alone. They are simply an aid to help me make a diagnosis.

[MonBK]

Hey Mouthwash, did I read correctly that you said your wrist is 7 1/4" and the watch is too tight?

[2th Dr]

Originally Posted by MonBK

Hey Mouthwash, did I read correctly that you said your wrist is 7 1/4" and the watch is too tight?

Yeppers.

[Zirotti]

Mark, listen brother I'm not trying to defend the way you said they treated you when you called. But from my perspective, as someone who has bought and sold an awful lot, I just feel as if they pretty much disclosed everything they could, outside explicitly saying "the watch has X links" which honestly, to any Joe Blow, the number of links doesn't mean anything. They want to know "will this watch fit my wrist".

According to the seller's response above, this should be the correct listing, right?





It appears the watch comes with 11 links and in my experience, that will fit a 7 1/2" wrist. If I was the buyer, I wouldn't assume the bracelet would come with anymore or any less than that.

I'm just trying trying to see both sides of the argument here. Please don't burn me at the stake. I know you're a very respected member here.

[2th Dr]

Originally Posted by Zirotti

Mark, listen brother I'm not trying to defend the way you said they treated you when you called. But from my perspective, as someone who has bought and sold an awful lot, I just feel as if they pretty much disclosed everything they could, outside explicitly saying "the watch has X links" which honestly, to any Joe Blow, the number of links doesn't mean anything. They want to know "will this watch fit my wrist".

According to the seller's response above, this should be the correct listing, right?





It appears the watch comes with 11 links and in my experience, that will fit a 7 1/2" wrist. If I was the buyer, I wouldn't assume the bracelet would come with anymore or any less than that.

I'm just trying trying to see both sides of the argument here. Please don't burn me at the stake. I know you're a very respected member here.

Jason, be honest. If your were purchasing this watch, at a premium, would YOU have counted the links?

[Zirotti]

Absolutely brother. I have not before and gotten the watch home and it wouldn't fit on my gorilla wrists. Trust me, it freaking sucks. I would hate to be in your position and have to buy additional links, especially two-tone.

But, just because you paid a premium vs maybe other listings (not sure what you paid, so no idea), I don't think you should expect anything more than what was described in the listing.

For instance, if I got a watch here from let's say DavidSW (whom I've bought probably 10 watches from) and it came with less links than I thought, I know he would take care of me, but I wouldn't expect him too.

I think half the problem is they treated you like an idiot when you called up. Unfortunately, it's probably lesson learned and only deal with the good guys here :)

[2th Dr]

Originally Posted by Zirotti

Absolutely brother. I have not before and gotten the watch home and it wouldn't fit on my gorilla wrists. Trust me, it freaking sucks. I would hate to be in your position and have to buy additional links, especially two-tone.

But, just because you paid a premium vs maybe other listings (not sure what you paid, so no idea), I don't think you should expect anything more than what was described in the listing.

For instance, if I got a watch here from let's say DavidSW (whom I've bought probably 10 watches from) and it came with less links than I thought, I know he would take care of me, but I wouldn't expect him too.

I think half the problem is they treated you like an idiot when you called up. Unfortunately, it's probably lesson learned and only deal with the good guys here :)

Jason, you say absolutely, but ONLY because this has happened to you before. This implies that prior to that, you didn't. Likewise, this is the first (and last) time it has (will) happen to me. I have bought dozens of watches from various forums and multiple web sites, and this has never been an issue.

[Zirotti]

You're probably right Mark.

[MonBK]

Mouthwash, If I were you I'd take a deep breath, pour myself a White Russian, spend $60 on one (1) new link and forget the whole ordeal.

Then again, I'm not you.

[Tridor]

Again, some here are missing the point that full disclosure was not made since the seller admits he knew there were missing links. Pictures with rulers be damned... He knew and said nothing. That's the big problem and it's not going away. The seller's reputation is now trash because of his own, poor actions on every level. With everything written here, still not one further comment from the seller recognizing his poor performance and offering to rectify the situation. The silence is both deafening and telling.

[77T]

I know I'm late to the discussion but Swiss Watch Expo has been fair with me in 2 different transactions. An Air-King and a 2 line Sub that I later traded with them for a Lady Datejust.

Some of Jake's listing points are really Best Practices - I like the idea of laying out the watch band and head along a ruler so you can see the actual length and count the links.

[2th Dr]

Originally Posted by MonBK

Mouthwash, If I were you I'd take a deep breath, pour myself a White Russian, spend $60 on one (1) new link and forget the whole ordeal.

Then again, I'm not you.

You know, I would do just that, had I gotten a good deal on this one, but as it were, I did not. Just so you all know, I payed $6630 with shipping. No one can argue that was a steal.

[2th Dr]

Originally Posted by Tridor

Again, some here are missing the point that full disclosure was not made since the seller admits he knew there were missing links. Pictures with rulers be damned... He knew and said nothing. That's the big problem and it's not going away. The seller's reputation is now trash because of his own, poor actions on every level. With everything written here, still not one further comment from the seller recognizing his poor performance and offering to rectify the situation. The silence is both deafening and telling.

Thank you. Exactly.

[Zirotti]

Originally Posted by tridor

again, some here are missing the point that full disclosure was not made since the seller admits he knew there were missing links. Pictures with rulers be damned... He knew and said nothing. That's the big problem and it's not going away. The seller's reputation is now trash because of his own, poor actions on every level. With everything written here, still not one further comment from the seller recognizing his poor performance and offering to rectify the situation. The silence is both deafening and telling.

lol

[Zirotti]

Originally Posted by Tridor

Again, some here are missing the point that full disclosure was not made since the seller admits he knew there were missing links. Pictures with rulers be damned... He knew and said nothing. That's the big problem and it's not going away. The seller's reputation is now trash because of his own, poor actions on every level. With everything written here, still not one further comment from the seller recognizing his poor performance and offering to rectify the situation. The silence is both deafening and telling.

Sounds like documenting what IS included, taking extremely thorough pictures isn't enough? If that's the case, all the trusted sellers here need to be dragged through the mud than too. David, Tony, Oscar, Greg etc ALWAYS tell you what is EXACTLY included in your purchase.

Outside of the attitude from SwissWatchExpo, they couldn't have done anything better. Their listings, descriptions and the photos are better than any listings here or other forums.

[Zirotti]

Also, take a look at this listing from Mark himself. He has a fantastic pepsi GMT. It looks like it has 11 links. If I bought this watch from Mark, and it came with the 11 links pictured, would I raise a fuss? Absolutely not.

Like I said earlier, it sucks Mark was treated poorly. But he received exactly what he was promised in the description and pictures of the watch.

[2th Dr]

Originally Posted by Zirotti

Sounds like documenting what IS included, taking extremely thorough pictures isn't enough? If that's the case, all the trusted sellers here need to be dragged through the mud than too. David, Tony, Oscar, Greg etc ALWAYS tell you what is EXACTLY included in your purchase.

Outside of the attitude from SwissWatchExpo, they couldn't have done anything better. Their listings, descriptions and the photos are better than any listings here or other forums.

That's because they don't sell watches that are missing anything as a rule, but on the rare occasion that they do, I guarantee you they would disclose what's missing.

[2th Dr]

Originally Posted by Zirotti

Also, take a look at this listing from Mark himself. He has a fantastic pepsi GMT. It looks like it has 11 links. If I bought this watch from Mark, and it came with the 11 links pictured, would I raise a fuss? Absolutely not.

Like I said earlier, it sucks Mark was treated poorly. But he received exactly what he was promised in the description and pictures of the watch.

My listing specifically states "Comes complete". It also doesn't have a picture of the boxes and papers but again it says "with boxes and papers".

[Zirotti]

Originally Posted by 2th DR

My listing specifically states "Comes complete". It also doesn't have a picture of the boxes and papers but again it says "with boxes and papers".

Yours says box and papers. Doesn't about any other accessories, such as bezel protectors, links, etc.