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Old 17 February 2009, 10:11 AM   #31
JJ Irani
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Originally Posted by ijen0311 View Post
Are they real jewels? Could I pop off the back and turn them into earrings??

Synthetic rubies, actually. They serve as bearings between moving parts to minimise friction.

JJ
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Old 17 February 2009, 10:16 AM   #32
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Wow Vanessa and Padi56 THANX for the information. This Forum is definitely educational as well as humorous to say the least!!! As I say, everyday is an opportunity to learn, experience and enjoy life. THANX to Bighat for the info as well you're a Gem(ruby)
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Old 17 February 2009, 10:18 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ Irani View Post
Synthetic rubies, actually. They serve as bearings between moving parts to minimise friction.

JJ
Synthetic?! What, did I not pay ENOUGH for my watch for Rolex to throw in a couple rubies?!

I was thinking I had a little jewelry box sitting on my hand

Oh well
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Old 17 February 2009, 11:59 AM   #34
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Intersting Vanessa, it's great to see you around TRF also. It was nice to see you a couple of weeks ago and I hope all is well with your family.
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Old 19 February 2009, 03:37 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by argee1977 View Post
Yep for most of their watches 17 or 21 is enough, i wonder what they use these 31 jewels for if they're in constant use?
For the automatic mechanism....
The 17 jewels is on a mechanical movement without automatic winding.
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Old 19 February 2009, 04:20 PM   #36
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So Vanessa,

Have you actually counted the number of ACTUAL jewels in say, the most popular Rolex movement.....the 3135.

So the 31 jewels they claim are the ones under "Constant Force" as you so rightly put it.

What about the extra ones, if any? How many EXTRA ones are there in the 3135 calibre and what purpose do they serve if they are NOT under Constant Force.

How many for the DATE and which others?

Thanks - JJ
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Old 19 February 2009, 04:27 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ Irani View Post

How many for the DATE and which others?

Thanks - JJ
It depends how cheap you are, real men don´t ask they just give them away to get
what they want.

"Which others?" aren't it enough with one date Mr Holmes?



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Old 19 February 2009, 09:31 PM   #38
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I believe that for a period of time Rolex did make the 5513 Submariner with the 1520 movement which contained a 17 Jewel movement for the US market and a 26 jewel movement for the rest of the world.

This was in response to the US import duty on the number of jewels in watches. However, this was only for a period of time.
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Old 19 February 2009, 09:40 PM   #39
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Here are comparison photographs of 2 different 5513 model Submariners, both containing calibre 1520 non-chronometer movements:

17 Jewel U.S.A. version
17jewel5513.jpg

26 Jewel rest of the world version
26jewel5513.jpg

Photo source: classicwatch.com
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Old 19 February 2009, 11:30 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by padi56 View Post
None whatsoever only in the very early years of Rolex did
the Canadian and USA have different movements from Europe.During the Rolex early period many different types of watches were made, and Rolex did not have complete control over their movement factory, they were only a minority shareholder. The full name of the company tells the story "Aegler, Société Anonyme, Fabrique des Montres Rolex & Gruen Guild A.," this means, in translation, Aegler incorporated, manufacturer of Rolex & Gruen Guild A Watches. At this time ownership of the factory was split between three parties, Herman Aegler (movements), (Hans Wilsdorf of Rolex) and the Gruen brothers, Frederick Gruen and George Gruen.Now Aegler manufactured movements for both companies, who then sold the completed watches in their respective territories; Wilsdorf of Rolex, throughout Europe, Asia and the British Empire; whilst the Gruen brothers sold in the US only. This arrangement worked well until Rolex acquired the patent for the the Oyster case; now they had something new and special which they wished to sell all over the world, not just in their limited territory. However the three way partnership prohibited Rolex from selling their products with Aegler movement in the Gruen brothers' territory (and vice-versa).

So Hans of Rolex being a very clever and shrewd man, took a sideways move and fitted their new Oyster cases with a movement from FHF (Fontmelon)factory just down the road from Gruen and then tried to find a US distributor. They came across the firm of Abercrombie and Fitch,this was then a store specialising in sportsman's' equipment; whether you wanted to go elephant shooting in Africa, fishing for salmon or trout in Scotland, Abercrombie and Fitch was the place you went for all your equipment. Everything from fishing rods to double barrelled shotguns could be found under their roof. As the sportsman's store they seemed the ideal place to sell the first oyster watches, which were already building a reputation as the sportsman's watch. It may have seemed the ideal place but it did not work out that way, firstly because Rolex sold the cheaper down-market version of their watches in a high end store, and also because Abercrombie & Fitch did not advertise the watch sufficiently.

These Abercrombie & Fitch watches are probably the rarest of all the cushion oysters, in all my life I have only ever seen one; it was signed "Abercrombie and Fitch (Seafarer) on the dial and the case and movement were signed Oyster Watch Company.The case was quite badly pitted because then they were made from a base metal, a chromed zinc material that did not last very long,a bit like the relationship between Rolex and Abercrombie & Fitch.Now they went on to become the USA distributor for The Swiss Heuer watches, probably more of a sportsman's watch to speak of, being mainly chronograph watches.

After a couple of years in the desert Rolex decided to give the US market another try. This was after they had been approached by Zell Brothers, a jewellery store chain in the Pacific North West of the USA, headquartered in Seattle. Zell had seen the great success of Rolex in Canada, and in Vancouver in particular (Seattle and Vancouver are only about 150km apart). They asked to be made the exclusive importer for Rolex in the Pacific North West, and Rolex eager to get a US foot hold accepted their proposal. The strange thing is that, despite the Canadian success either Zell or Rolex decided not to use the famed "Oyster" name but substituted the name Turtle Timer, (IMHO undoubtedly Zell) Once again these were non-Aegler (non-Rolex) movements, so as not to disturb the three way relationship with Gruen. Zell were much more successful than Abercrombie/Fitch had been, but can hardly be described as having made a major market breakthrough. I have seen around 5 or 6 pictures of these watches and because they were made when Rolex was using real stainless steel the cases looked to have lasted much better than the A&F ones ever did. But Zells had two major problems as far as Rolex were concerned; firstly they were a regional not national chain and their insistence on using their own Turtle Timer name and not Oyster meant that Rolex would never reap the benefit of any of the new oyster case success.Now in these early days of Rolex only about 1 in 5 had the name Rolex on the Dial,the rest were blank dials when they left the factory
All I can saw is 'WOW' Padi....we're not worthy!!! Thanks, as always, for the GREAT information!
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Old 20 February 2009, 03:33 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ Irani View Post
So Vanessa,

Have you actually counted the number of ACTUAL jewels in say, the most popular Rolex movement.....the 3135.

So the 31 jewels they claim are the ones under "Constant Force" as you so rightly put it.

What about the extra ones, if any? How many EXTRA ones are there in the 3135 calibre and what purpose do they serve if they are NOT under Constant Force.

How many for the DATE and which others?

Thanks - JJ
You know JJ, just for you I'm going count all the jewels in a 3135!
I'll get back to you!
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Old 20 February 2009, 05:38 AM   #42
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Great post! Thanks Vanessa and Padi!
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Old 20 February 2009, 05:47 AM   #43
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Old 20 February 2009, 06:20 AM   #44
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Good stuff!
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Old 20 February 2009, 06:22 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanessa View Post
You know JJ, just for you I'm going count all the jewels in a 3135!
I'll get back to you!
Vanessa you can tell the guy whatever you want, he will never open it up and check.



Thanks for your great info.

Jocke
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Old 20 February 2009, 09:22 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jocke View Post
Vanessa you can tell the guy whatever you want, he will never open it up and check.



Thanks for your great info.

Jocke
Good point! I hadn't even thought of that!

But now I'm curious myself, so I'll count ALL the jewels in a 3135!
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Old 20 February 2009, 11:11 AM   #47
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Fascinating information...what a post and wealth of knowledge here. Impressive!
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Old 20 February 2009, 11:13 AM   #48
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I used to wonder what "jeweled movement" meant. Thinking of watches as luxury items, I associated "jewel" with this aspect and I had no clue that there was such thing as jeweled bearings.

I read about John Harrison and how the Longitude Problem lead him to create the first accurate timepiece that would remain accurate through variation in temperature, humidity, pressure, and movement of the timepiece (as in on a rocking ship). Reducing friction without using lubricants was one key as the lubricants would change viscosity when the temperature changed. Jeweled bearings are the current evolution of this idea, as far as I know, and are particularly suited to small applications such as pocket and wrist watches.

Here's a version of John Harrison's tale and the creation of his masterpieces, H-1, H-2, and H-3:

http://www.antique-pocket-watch.com/...e-problem.html

- GregB
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Old 20 February 2009, 04:26 PM   #49
JJ Irani
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanessa View Post
Good point! I hadn't even thought of that!

But now I'm curious myself, so I'll count ALL the jewels in a 3135!
You're a good girl, Vanessa.....thank you so much. And don't listen to that tosser, Jocke!!
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Old 21 February 2009, 01:22 AM   #50
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Thank you very much to Vanessa and Padi. I did really enjoy reading both articles. Anyway, I took the freedom of posting it in our brother forum "Relojes Especiales"...I did mention of the source there, of course .
Greetings
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Old 21 February 2009, 01:24 AM   #51
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I agree with Padi56
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