Ok, the "New" +2-2 thing, I got an answer from Rolex

[TheVTCGuy]

Just got back from the Las Vegas GTG, I won't discuss it much as there is already a thread in the meeting room, but I DO want to say it was a phenominal time and a BIG thanks to Gerrardo for setting everything up. It was great meeting/hanging out with another 30 or so TRFers and a fantastic weekend. Back to the point... The Rolex Wynn store gave us a private showing and had an incredibly knowledgeable staff, so I asked them about the new standard. Quick recap: I was very excited when I saw the Basel release of the DJ41, for many reasons but one was the better-then-COSC rating of +-2 seconds per day; being an Engineer and a Geek I really thought Rolex had raised the standards with a new movement. But THEN, I noticed on the website it ALSO had MY watch, the 216570, at +-2 seconds a day As well as every other model. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

So, the staff at the Wynn explained that every model goes through standard COSC testing, +6-4. When this happens the MOVEMENTS ONLY are sent to the COSC labs for the required time (I think it's 10 days) and put through the accuracy test. That WAS the only procedure. NOW, when Rolex gets the movements back, after they have passed COSC, they put them IN their cases, and with their own new facility, subject them to a FURTHER test of the +2-2 standard. If the watch passes, it is sent out for sale, if it doesn't, the technicians adjust and modify as necessary to get it to those tolerances. They said that every watch with the green hang tag has passed the additional test of +2-2.

I know people will ask: "Does three seconds a day really make that much difference in your life?" And of course the answer is no; I am not timing an ICBM launch. But, being an engineer and a geek, and bit OCD, I always strive for the most efficient operating method and mechanism, and it impressed me that Rolex has stepped up their tolerances to this new level.

So, they basically added on one additional testing step, that brings all their watches up to a new standard. I think Rolex should be congratulated on this, now holding every watch to a higher accuracy

[chrisb57]

Very interesting indeed ��

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Just got back from the Las Vegas GTG, I won't discuss it much as there is already a thread in the meeting room, but I DO want to say it was a phenominal time and a BIG thanks to Gerrardo for setting everything up. It was great meeting/hanging out with another 30 or so TRFers and a fantastic weekend. Back to the point... The Rolex Wynn store gave us a private showing and had an incredibly knowledgeable staff, so I asked them about the new standard. Quick recap: I was very excited when I saw the Basel release of the DJ41, for many reasons but one was the better-then-COSC rating of +-2 seconds per day; being an Engineer and a Geek I really thought Rolex had raised the standards with a new movement. But THEN, I noticed on the website it ALSO had MY watch, the 216570, at +-2 seconds a day As well as every other model. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

So, the staff at the Wynn explained that every model goes through standard COSC testing, +6-4. When this happens the MOVEMENTS ONLY are sent to the COSC labs for the required time (I think it's 10 days) and put through the accuracy test. That WAS the only procedure. NOW, when Rolex gets the movements back, after they have passed COSC, they put them IN their cases, and with their own new facility, subject them to a FURTHER test of the +2-2 standard. If the watch passes, it is sent out for sale, if it doesn't, the technicians adjust and modify as necessary to get it to those tolerances. They said that every watch with the green hang tag has passed the additional test of +2-2.

I know people will ask: "Does three seconds a day really make that much difference in your life?" And of course the answer is no; I am not timing an ICBM launch. But, being an engineer and a geek, and bit OCD, I always strive for the most efficient operating method and mechanism, and it impressed me that Rolex has stepped up their tolerances to this new level.

So, they basically added on one additional testing step, that brings all their watches up to a new standard. I think Rolex should be congratulated on this, now holding every watch to a higher accuracy

All existing stock back when the change to green tags was made had the red tags replaced with green tags. Red tags were reurned to Rolex. So not every watch with a green tag has been tested to +/- 2.

[1William]

I like the new standard and am glad Rolex stepped up the game on accuracy.

[Singslinger]

I think if you pay top dollar for a watch, you have every right to expect accuracy.

Thanks for sharing!

[stil]

I'm still a firm believer this is 100% marketing. All of their movements are capable of +/- 2. At least their modern movements anyway.

[Racerdj]

The new standard is a great sales tool.

[AK797]

Yes, this is what I understood too, they are regulated to a higher standard now. Hope it goes wide.

[speedmaster73]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Just got back from the Las Vegas GTG, I won't discuss it much as there is already a thread in the meeting room, but I DO want to say it was a phenominal time and a BIG thanks to Gerrardo for setting everything up. It was great meeting/hanging out with another 30 or so TRFers and a fantastic weekend. Back to the point... The Rolex Wynn store gave us a private showing and had an incredibly knowledgeable staff, so I asked them about the new standard. Quick recap: I was very excited when I saw the Basel release of the DJ41, for many reasons but one was the better-then-COSC rating of +-2 seconds per day; being an Engineer and a Geek I really thought Rolex had raised the standards with a new movement. But THEN, I noticed on the website it ALSO had MY watch, the 216570, at +-2 seconds a day As well as every other model. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

So, the staff at the Wynn explained that every model goes through standard COSC testing, +6-4. When this happens the MOVEMENTS ONLY are sent to the COSC labs for the required time (I think it's 10 days) and put through the accuracy test. That WAS the only procedure. NOW, when Rolex gets the movements back, after they have passed COSC, they put them IN their cases, and with their own new facility, subject them to a FURTHER test of the +2-2 standard. If the watch passes, it is sent out for sale, if it doesn't, the technicians adjust and modify as necessary to get it to those tolerances. They said that every watch with the green hang tag has passed the additional test of +2-2.

I know people will ask: "Does three seconds a day really make that much difference in your life?" And of course the answer is no; I am not timing an ICBM launch. But, being an engineer and a geek, and bit OCD, I always strive for the most efficient operating method and mechanism, and it impressed me that Rolex has stepped up their tolerances to this new level.

So, they basically added on one additional testing step, that brings all their watches up to a new standard. I think Rolex should be congratulated on this, now holding every watch to a higher accuracy

Old news. This has been posted on rolex website for a while now.

[beer]

i used to see threads with people complaining their watches were outside COSC

am interested to know how much of the new standard is marketing and how much is truth but so far not seen any threads with a watch supposed to be in the -2 - +2 standard not performing as such

[kilyung]

The majority of owners will never realize their watches are outside the new, or even old, specs until it's WAY outside even the old specs so it's mostly marketing. Unless you put it on a timegrapher or average it (to the second) over a couple of days, no way to know. Only WIS will care and we're a fraction of the ownership group.

[Dyim]

Nice to know Rolex is now throwing in a free regulation if needed to get +/-2.

[speedmaster73]

from rolex website:

if anyone cares Rolex did this in response to OMEGA......



THE GREEN SEAL
Certified precision
The green seal accompanying every Rolex watch is a symbol of its status as a Superlative Chronometer. This exclusive designation attests that it has successfully undergone a series of specific final controls by Rolex in its own laboratories according to its own criteria, in addition to the official COSC certification of its movement. This unique testing of the chronometric precision of the cased-up movement, as well as of the watch’s waterproofness, self-winding and power reserve, pushes back the boundaries of performance and makes Rolex the benchmark for excellence in mechanical watches. The green seal is coupled with a five-year guarantee which applies to all Rolex models.

[brandrea]

For me the benefit of the new movement lies in its power reserve. 72 hours vs 48 is nice to have.

[henryjbird]

With the movements being regulated to that tolerance, beyond the joy of knowing that the mechanical accuracy is there ..... the QC for the system to be that accurate would also seem to play over to reliability.

It is one of the reason I enjoy my Rolex, the thought that is in each portion of the design and execution to deliver that design consistently with such a high fit and finish.

One benefit of not having leaps and bounds type changes every year is that the ones that do occur are done well and refined.

Or at least that is the way it seems, comparing the various watch types I have. Same would apply with other brands and the iconic watches in their lines. In my case the Speedmaster for Omega and the base models with Panerai.

[kilyung]

Originally Posted by brandrea

For me the benefit of the new movement lies in its power reserve. 72 hours vs 48 is nice to have.

I agree. This is the more beneficial aspect of the new movement. I can service a much older movement to keep the same +2/-2 spec.

Of course, if you wear your watch 100% or within 48hrs of depletion then you wouldn't notice the PR increase either.

[jkf2112]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Just got back from the Las Vegas GTG, I won't discuss it much as there is already a thread in the meeting room, but I DO want to say it was a phenominal time and a BIG thanks to Gerrardo for setting everything up. It was great meeting/hanging out with another 30 or so TRFers and a fantastic weekend. Back to the point... The Rolex Wynn store gave us a private showing and had an incredibly knowledgeable staff, so I asked them about the new standard. Quick recap: I was very excited when I saw the Basel release of the DJ41, for many reasons but one was the better-then-COSC rating of +-2 seconds per day; being an Engineer and a Geek I really thought Rolex had raised the standards with a new movement. But THEN, I noticed on the website it ALSO had MY watch, the 216570, at +-2 seconds a day As well as every other model. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

So, the staff at the Wynn explained that every model goes through standard COSC testing, +6-4. When this happens the MOVEMENTS ONLY are sent to the COSC labs for the required time (I think it's 10 days) and put through the accuracy test. That WAS the only procedure. NOW, when Rolex gets the movements back, after they have passed COSC, they put them IN their cases, and with their own new facility, subject them to a FURTHER test of the +2-2 standard. If the watch passes, it is sent out for sale, if it doesn't, the technicians adjust and modify as necessary to get it to those tolerances. They said that every watch with the green hang tag has passed the additional test of +2-2.

I know people will ask: "Does three seconds a day really make that much difference in your life?" And of course the answer is no; I am not timing an ICBM launch. But, being an engineer and a geek, and bit OCD, I always strive for the most efficient operating method and mechanism, and it impressed me that Rolex has stepped up their tolerances to this new level.

So, they basically added on one additional testing step, that brings all their watches up to a new standard. I think Rolex should be congratulated on this, now holding every watch to a higher accuracy

I have attempted to delve into this previously here for people, but what you were told is correct. I will add a couple of things...
(1) This new process is called by Rolex its Superlative Chronometer testing and is conducted in a brand new testing facility which is not only state of the art but really wicked cool--the robotic arm that simulates 1 year worth of wear during the extra testing period is especially cool

(2) Rolex tests the watch--movement IN case, unlike COSC--at more positions than COSC.

(3) Rolex has and will continue to send every movement to COSC for evaluation so that an outside agency/organization verifies the quality of their movements, however, Rolex has an internal standard much higher than COSC and, therefore, the process of Superlative Chronometer testing evolved.

(4) For most watches once the movements are COSC certified they never again meet the COSC timing standards--they are added to cases which change the tolerance/accuracy and are then worn differently than COSC checks for...this is not the case with Rolex...if you take a new 3255 movement watch out of the showcase today and test it it will likely come up with a Delta of 5 but a daily tolerance of +2--watches typically speed up once leaving production only slowing down once movement needs serviced.

Anyways, if there are more questions on this--since I have seen an abundance of threads/topics either about this or where this is brought up--I am more than happy to go further in-depth.

[Rookie52]

Originally Posted by jkf2112

I have attempted to delve into this previously here for people, but what you were told is correct. I will add a couple of things...
(1) This new process is called by Rolex its Superlative Chronometer testing and is conducted in a brand new testing facility which is not only state of the art but really wicked cool--the robotic arm that simulates 1 year worth of wear during the extra testing period is especially cool

(2) Rolex tests the watch--movement IN case, unlike COSC--at more positions than COSC.

(3) Rolex has and will continue to send every movement to COSC for evaluation so that an outside agency/organization verifies the quality of their movements, however, Rolex has an internal standard much higher than COSC and, therefore, the process of Superlative Chronometer testing evolved.

(4) For most watches once the movements are COSC certified they never again meet the COSC timing standards--they are added to cases which change the tolerance/accuracy and are then worn differently than COSC checks for...this is not the case with Rolex...if you take a new 3255 movement watch out of the showcase today and test it it will likely come up with a Delta of 5 but a daily tolerance of +2--watches typically speed up once leaving production only slowing down once movement needs serviced.

Anyways, if there are more questions on this--since I have seen an abundance of threads/topics either about this or where this is brought up--I am more than happy to go further in-depth.

Do you have a link or some additional info about this new facility? Sounds awesome.

[jkf2112]

Originally Posted by Rookie52

Do you have a link or some additional info about this new facility? Sounds awesome.

Not really. I can provide additional information, but no pictures unfortunately.

[speedmaster73]

Originally Posted by Rookie52

Do you have a link or some additional info about this new facility? Sounds awesome.

yes. its called rolexes website. its all there...the robotic arm everything...

www.rolex.com

[Rookie52]

Originally Posted by speedmaster73

yes. its called rolexes website. its all there...the robotic arm everything...

www.rolex.com

I haven't seen anything on the Rolex website specifically related to the new facility. Am I missing it?

[jkf2112]

Originally Posted by speedmaster73

yes. its called rolexes website. its all there...the robotic arm everything...

www.rolex.com

There is PLENTY not on Rolex website.

[jkf2112]

Originally Posted by Rookie52

I haven't seen anything on the Rolex website specifically related to the new facility. Am I missing it?

He means this...http://www.rolex.com/watches/rolex-w...-extremes.html

[dardeca]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

All existing stock back when the change to green tags was made had the red tags replaced with green tags. Red tags were reurned to Rolex. So not every watch with a green tag has been tested to +/- 2.

My thoughts exactly.

[Rookie52]

Originally Posted by jkf2112

He means this...http://www.rolex.com/watches/rolex-w...-extremes.html

Well if that's what he was referring to, that's definitely not what I'm asking about. That has been on their site for a while.

[peterskinner]

I have the new 3255 movement; it's accuracy seems very similar to my other Rolex watches. Just about within the minus 2 seconds level, while my three other Rolex 31...are nearer 1.5seconds.
So all very accurate really and you wouldn't expect anything better. But I suspect that the 3255 is no real advance in precision...although it might be in other important respects such as power reserve and resilience. It may also have more long-term development potential.
But I would see little point in waiting if you want a new Rolex and think the 32...versions will be here in a year or two. The current versions will do the job just as well, at least from what I have seen.
Of course this is a sample of one....and my new Day Date 40 had a faulty change-over mechanism because, according to RSC, it hadn't been adequately lubricated. Early days.....
The 31..movements have steadily evolved over decades. So will the 32...movements. It's the start of a new line of development, not the end. Rolex are probably better at this steady development than any other watch manufacturer.

[J!m]

My aerospace and ISO hat on:

While it is great Rolex holds themselves to this "higher" standard, from a testing and certification standpoint, the best way to do this is to have Rolex set them to +/- 2 and then have COSC certify that it runs that way.

Having the final certification in house is a bit backwards from a quality system point of view. There is not independent verification.

This is pure marketing but that's fine.

[speedmaster73]

Originally Posted by jkf2112

There is PLENTY not on Rolex website.

you seem to have all the info......where did you get your info from?...you must have 'source' material....

[jkf2112]

Originally Posted by J!m

My aerospace and ISO hat on:

While it is great Rilex holds themselves to this "higher" standard, com a testing and certification standpoint, the best way to do this is to have Rolex set them to +/- 2 and then have COSC certify that it runs that way.

Having the fnal certification in house is a bit backwards from a quality system point of view.

This is pure marketing but that's fine.

Well, a couple of counterpoints: COSC tests how COSC tests. They do not test to +/-2. They also do not test with the watch completely assembled. They test movement only--which honestly is itself a pretty meaningless fact--so if you want to talk about marketing at its finest it is when COSC is marketed as a selling feature of a watch. Are you buying the watch or the independent movement? A COSC watch almost never runs at COSC standards.

[speedmaster73]

anyways....theres lots more info here as well....

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...yQpIg2El-nDXDw