GMT Hand Stack

[MatthewJRush]

I'm looking at the GMT for my next watch and trying to spot fakes. Have you ever seen this hand stack on this late of a GMT?

http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/jwl/4708313482.html

[pacific17]

First off, the box is fake. I believe with the GMT the GMT hand is not supposed to be in the bottom. I cant remember specifically where its supposed to be but all i know is by looking at it, its not in the right order.

[Alcan]

The watch in the link appears to have the wrong hand stack, common with counterfeits.

Should be:

Bottom – hour hand
Next up – 24 hour hand
Next to top – minute hand
Top – second hand

[bayerische]

It's fake.

[crowncollection]

Fakee

[Knappo 1307]

Originally Posted by Alcan

The watch in the link appears to have the wrong hand stack, common with counterfeits.

Should be:

Bottom – hour hand
Next up – 24 hour hand
Next to top – minute hand
Top – second hand

Perfect info, thanks for the pics.

[LAFlyer]

Thanks.

- AB

[southtexas]

It never ceases to amaze me the huge details these forgers screw up.

What? It's not spelled Rolecks? Damn!

[waspy1]

Easiest way to avoid being burned is to buy from a decent source. Avoid the anguish and just head to a person with a good track record of selling high quality watches.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pdx]

I sent them an email through Craigslist that it was fake. Here is the response:

Unfortunately you are wrong. The watch has been certified and cleaned by the Rolex store in downtown Portland. But there is a replica website if you want a knockoff watch. Have a great day :)
Americas Pawn

Monday - Friday 10am - 6pm
Saturday 10am - 5pm

221 NE 104th Ave Suit #108
Vancouver, WA 98664
(360) 260-4528

[GradyPhilpott]

Originally Posted by Alcan

The watch in the link appears to have the wrong hand stack, common with counterfeits.

Should be:

Bottom – hour hand
Next up – 24 hour hand
Next to top – minute hand
Top – second hand

Thanks for the synopsis.

[thewatchguy1]

Interesting , a pawnshop you say?

[bayerische]

Someone will get burned.

[aaamax]

Originally Posted by Alcan

The watch in the link appears to have the wrong hand stack, common with counterfeits.

Should be:

Bottom – hour hand
Next up – 24 hour hand
Next to top – minute hand
Top – second hand

I just love those two pics!!
ok, I'm a GMt fan

[MatthewJRush]

For the hell of it, I went and looked at the watch. It was a good replica. From what I've heard a real GMT with the crown in the first position will move the hour hand in one hour jumps and you have to set the date by rotating the hour hand around a full day. This watch with the crown in the first position - one direction moved the hour hand and the other direction moved the date. Because of the hand stack, I was pretty sure this was fake when I posted, but I'm amazed at how good the fakes are.

[Rogdogg]

Originally Posted by MatthewJRush

For the hell of it, I went and looked at the watch. It was a good replica. From what I've heard a real GMT with the crown in the first position will move the hour hand in one hour jumps and you have to set the date by rotating the hour hand around a full day. This watch with the crown in the first position - one direction moved the hour hand and the other direction moved the date. Because of the hand stack, I was pretty sure this was fake when I posted, but I'm amazed at how good the fakes are.

Did you point these facts out to the guys that were selling it in the pawn shop?
If so, what did they have to say about it?

You are correct about the crown position and function.

I have to say though, It looks to be one of the better fakes that are out there.
Good catch.

[DCgator]

Good that you didn't make the mistake of buying it.

[T. Ferguson]

Originally Posted by Rogdogg

Did you point these facts out to the guys that were selling it in the pawn shop?
If so, what did they have to say about it?

You are correct about the crown position and function.

I have to say though, It looks to be one of the better fakes that are out there.
Good catch.

Doubt that would do any good. They apparently are well aware it's fake because they denied it to member pdx claiming it had been certified and cleaned by a Rolex AD. Even if the AD didn't know enough to know the hand stack is wrong, how on earth could they not notice the operation of the movement is different than a real GMT?

I'd steer clear of anything offered by these guys.

Originally Posted by MatthewJRush

For the hell of it, I went and looked at the watch. It was a good replica. From what I've heard a real GMT with the crown in the first position will move the hour hand in one hour jumps and you have to set the date by rotating the hour hand around a full day. This watch with the crown in the first position - one direction moved the hour hand and the other direction moved the date. Because of the hand stack, I was pretty sure this was fake when I posted, but I'm amazed at how good the fakes are.

Actually, the first position is the winding position. Position 2 in either direction operates the jump hour hand and the date changes every two times the hour hand goes around.

So, the way you described how this watch operated is definitely not how a genuine GMT functions. When you think about it, can you imagine a genuine GMT not allowing you to jump the hour hand backward? Better never be traveling west.

[MatthewJRush]

I have to say that it looked decent, but there was enough off about it if you knew what to look for. I could see how they could make the mistake.

It was a young woman probably in her 20's that helped me and I didn't have the heart to tell her, nor did I want to start an argument when I am on the learning curve.

[aaamax]

Originally Posted by MatthewJRush

I have to say that it looked decent, but there was enough off about it if you knew what to look for. I could see how they could make the mistake.

It was a young woman probably in her 20's that helped me and I didn't have the heart to tell her, nor did I want to start an argument when I am on the learning curve.

"Of course it's a Rolex, it says Rolex right on it!, duuuh."

[pdx]

I sent the owner another email and told him he should look at the comments on this forum and that he might be wrong about the watch. I did not start this thread but if it is a fake watch I would hate to see someone get burned and that is why I emailed the shop. As I am new to the world of Rolex can someone answer a question for me. Is the hand stack always the same for GMT's through the years?

Here is the is response back to me.

Sir, I did read the comments and I appreciate your concern, but the face of the matter still is that the watch looked over by a professional. What I was told by him is that it is a authentic Rolex. I really don't appreciate you telling me its a fake, when I took the steps to ensure that it was not a fake. Then you have the audacity to put it on a forum so you could try and prove a point. I hope you have a great evening/day

Americas Pawn

[pdx]

I sent the owner another email and told him he should look at the comments on this forum and that he might be wrong about the watch. I did not start this thread but if it is a fake watch I would hate to see someone get burned and that is why I emailed the shop. As I am new to the world of Rolex can someone answer a question for me. Is the hand stack always the same for GMT's through the years?

Here is the is response back to me.

Sir, I did read the comments and I appreciate your concern, but the face of the matter still is that the watch looked over by a professional. What I was told by him is that it is a authentic Rolex. I really don't appreciate you telling me its a fake, when I took the steps to ensure that it was not a fake. Then you have the audacity to put it on a forum so you could try and prove a point. I hope you have a great evening/day
Americas Pawn

The post has since been flagged and removed.

[MatthewJRush]

The reason I started the thread was to try to learn about GMT watches because I am still on the learning curve and if I was to invest in one want to make sure I am getting the real thing. It was not to call out the Pawn shop on a fake GMT. However, from what I am learning the engraving around the edge of the face did not start occurring until 2003-2004 when the hand stack should have been the other way around.

Since the Pawn Shop was not too far from me, I thought I would take a look at it. I was looking for movement based on this video:

http://youtu.be/8lorB7ZkIt4

At the first position, the watch wound. At the second position, one direction set the time and the other set the date. I tried moving the crown and trying to find the third position, but it would not give and I did not want to break the watch and have an argument with them. I am not sure that the watch at the shop had the third position.

Overall, I have to say that the watch was impressive and without watching that video to look for the hand stack and the correct mechanics of the watch, I could have been easily fooled.

[dougt1957]

One thing to remember is the GMT and the GMT II are different models and the setting functions are not the same. The GMT does not allow separate setting of the 24 hour hand, and only shows one different time zone by moving the bezel. The date can be quick set on the GMT, but not the GMT II. The GMT II allows three time zones, by moving the 24 hour for one, and the bezel for the other. I have a 1989 model GMT, (16700), and the manual explains the setting and functions of it and the GMT II, (16710). The hand stack is the same for both. The first position winds the GMT, second and third set the date and the time. Don't recall, but I think in that order. Mine is in for service, and the manuals put away in a drawer right now. But the hour jump on the 24 hour hand is only on the GMT II.