*PSA* Altered serial number from eBay seller: theroyaltycollection

[nevets616]

I would just like to share my recent experience with buying a vintage Rolex via eBay and/or online. This is purely informational/educational.

I recently was bidding on a 16014 on eBay and I sent several messages to the seller inquiring about the watch. Ultimately I didn't win the auction, the seller, Mike Cherry, messaged me and told me he is located in Boston and deals with large number of vintage watches from estate sales and what not.

Mike offered to sell me a watch he claimed was in excellent condition which he would sell in his store, presumably Boston, a 16014 with a 9 million serial number.

Strike 1, Mike and I agreed on a price and I, mistakenly agreed on a lower price off Ebay but via Paypal.

Strike 2, watch arrived from Hong Kong. Mike said that their warehouse is there and they often send their watches to HK for servicing. I expressed my concerns about this and told Mike I would bring it to my local Rolex Service Center to have it checked out.

Strike 3, Mike told me to not take it to RSC, but to a local watch maker instead.

Long story short, I brought it to the RSC and was advised the serial number was either altered or fraudulently inscribed on because the serial number doesn't match the watch reference number.

My speculation is a lot of these vintage watches from Asia are probably Frankensteins, pieced together from various other watches, and/or they simply just buy fake cases and put movements in.

So if anyone here has bought a watch from theroyaltycollection via eBay I would bring it to a RSC to get it checked out. I also would highly recommend not buying from them.

Going through some of his new and old listings, I see some dependencies with the serial numbers he has listed in his listings, for example 2 million serial for a 16014. I am no expert but I don't think 16014 had serial numbers that low.

Anyways, it was my mistake for not doing my homework prior to buying, I don't want anyone here to fall victim to this scam. Now I am paranoid to buy any vintage watches from ebay or online.

http://stores.ebay.com/theroyaltycollection/ is his ebay store.

Cheer.

[michigan.watches]

Good to know. Do you have a photo of the altered serial number? I'm curious to see what it looks like.

[pandrew6l]

Any response from the Seller when informed with your RSC finding ?

[nevets616]

Originally Posted by michigan.watches

Good to know. Do you have a photo of the altered serial number? I'm curious to see what it looks like.

Here's a photo.I think the watch was probably pieced together from different watches. Or the case was aftermarket and they just etched in a random 7 digit number.

On the RSC invoice it stated the following: "Bezel (fluted WG) not intended for this model" and "serial number altered/not original."

[nevets616]

Originally Posted by Pandrew6l

Any response from the Seller when informed with your RSC finding ?

Seller did not respond.

[Noddy]

An awful experience and a wastte of your time and money.
I am assuming paypal wil be helpful and give you a refund, they seem to be pretty powerful force these days and clamp down hard on people like this. You seem a sensible person so file your claim with them asap

[nevets616]

Originally Posted by Noddy

An awful experience and a wastte of your time and money.
I am assuming paypal wil be helpful and give you a refund, they seem to be pretty powerful force these days and clamp down hard on people like this. You seem a sensible person so file your claim with them asap

So what made this ordeal worse was I already opened a claim on this guy because the watch sent to me was not the watch he described nor was it the same in the pictures he sent me. I received the watch with damaged end links and when I took it to Rolex they quoted me $125 to fix it. I opened a claim and accepted a partial refund and closed it. For people that don't know. Once you open and close a claim it can't be reopened for any reason.

It wasn't until the next day, RSC called to notify me of the serial number discrepancy. They apologized for not catching it at first because they needed to check with Geneva since the serial wasn't coming up in their systems. So the good thing is I used my credit card and I've opened a claim with them about it.

[michigan.watches]

Interesting. Here's another listing from the same seller:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ROLEX-MENS-S...p2047675.l2557

Some interesting excerpts from the listing:

"The band is 100% original with all original Rolex markings and is sized to fit a 8" wrist which is perfect for most women."

"It is also marked with the model number 16014 and serial number 1029391"

"There are also a total of 4 visible Factory Rolex-set Red rubies, 3 in the movement back and 1 at the center of the balance staff."

The third and fourth photos also have tiny "chrono24.com" print hidden in the image.

[michael067]

Sounds like it was written by melding words and phrases from a "random word generator" off of google.

[michael067]

This is actually pretty comical reading,

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ROLEX-LADIES...0AAOSwx-9Wt4N9

This is a Classic All-Original Ladies Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust in Two Tone 18K Gold & Stainless Steel with 18K Gold Bezel and White Stick Dial with 18K Gold Hour Markers with Original Rolex Jubilee Bracelet. As you can see from the pictures this watch is in excellent condition!
It’s All-Original Rolex case, dial and movement are Rolex-marked inside and it comes with Gorgeous Original hands and Gorgeous Original Rolex-marked Jubilee Bracelet. Perfect for Doctors, Lawyers, CEO’s, Investment bankers, and those who want to show off their style and class differently than others with store-bought commodity Rolexes, this Vintage, Hand-made and Hand-kempt Rolex can be worn to high-end formal occasions, daily to work, or can be kept as an Investment that will likely appreciate some 10 or 20 times in the years to come. While there are many vintage Rolex watches on the market, this watch has been Fully-Serviced by a Rolex-certified watchmaker and thus is Fully Functional and comes with All-Original Rolex Parts including Original Caseback and Original Movement and 100% Original Rolex Jubilee bracelet.
TO THE WATCH:
Uniquely-shaped, this is a True Art Deco wristwatch, the type you would see worn by Medical Professionals, Lawyers and Politicians. This watch is intricately detailed and was likely extremely expensive in its day. Smaller, more intricate parts were very tough to come by. The band is 100% original with all original Rolex markings and is sized to fit a 7" wrist which is perfect for most women.
The Rolex movement is very clean. The movement has been Fully Serviced by a Rolex-Certified Watchmaker in the Boston area just 1 month ago and thus this watch is fully functional and keeps great time. This watchmaker was one of the former head watchmakers of the Rolex Service Center in New York City who specialized in vintage watches. This 5-hour process cost $375 and included a full-cleaning of all its internal components, timing and calibration adjustment and external polishing.
The watch contains Key Rolex Signature Markings which add to its value: on its Case (RWC for Rolex Watch Company), on its Dial, and on its Movement with the Rolex Crown. It is also marked with the model number 6917 and serial number 3891030
The Watch Measures 25.5mm Wide x 29mm Long x 9.5mm Deep and has a 13.5 mm-wide band that allows it to fit up to an 7" Wrist. This watch will ship with a watch box.
As a quick disclaimer, while this watch has been restored, serviced, and polished by a Rolex-certified watchmaker and is fully functional, please note that this is a vintage collector's Rolex watch and thus is sold as-is, without any future warranty on its functionality. It should be expected that you will have to take it for a "servicing" about once every 7 to 10 years and it must be worn to keep ticking as with most automatic watches.
We want you to be 100% happy with your purchase. As such we offer a full 14-day return period from the date of receipt to make sure you are 100% happy with it, if you have any questions or issues whatsoever, please contact us. We would be glad to give you a call if you prefer to speak via phone :)

[nevets616]

.

[nevets616]

Originally Posted by Pandrew6l

Any response from the Seller when informed with your RSC finding ?

Update...seller finally responds after I got AMEX involved. They contacted PayPal for me. The scam artist finally emails me told me he would refund me if I remove this post and close the claim. I told him I would not remove this posting.

[Fcalero]

Thank you for not removing this post. I was about to bid on one of their watches and luckily I saw this before doing it. I got suspicious after I saw this listing:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ROLEX-MENS-D...gAAOSwoBtW4A0-

It is the same watch I was watching the day before that was supposedly sold by half the price he is asking now:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/191864607341...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Very odd.

[nevets616]

Originally Posted by Fcalero

Thank you for not removing this post. I was about to bid on one of their watches and luckily I saw this before doing it. I got suspicious after I saw this listing:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ROLEX-MENS-D...gAAOSwoBtW4A0-

It is the same watch I was watching the day before that was supposedly sold by half the price he is asking now:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/191864607341...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Very odd.

Yeah Royalty Collection is def a sketchy seller. I've noticed he pulled all his listings and made his feedback private so you can't see his two recent negative feedbacks.

[L55HEM]

Very good to know. Nice to see some scammers named and shamed. Did he actually refund you or has Amex refunded you or is the case still ongoing ?

[Beauregard]

Originally Posted by nevets616

So what made this ordeal worse was I already opened a claim on this guy because the watch sent to me was not the watch he described nor was it the same in the pictures he sent me. I received the watch with damaged end links and when I took it to Rolex they quoted me $125 to fix it. I opened a claim and accepted a partial refund and closed it. For people that don't know. Once you open and close a claim it can't be reopened for any reason.

It wasn't until the next day, RSC called to notify me of the serial number discrepancy. They apologized for not catching it at first because they needed to check with Geneva since the serial wasn't coming up in their systems. So the good thing is I used my credit card and I've opened a claim with them about it.

Dude I'm so sorry, that is brutal.

[StephenAndrew]

Dammit...I wish I had seen this thread before buying a Datejust from this seller. I won an auction a little over a week ago. Paid immediately and waited a few days for a tracking number. After getting no shipping notification, I contacted them and heard nothing. I just sent another message requesting a refund, mentioning their recent negative (and now private) feedback, zero current auctions, and lack of any communication. It's looking like I'll have to open a case with eBay and/or Amex.

It's disappointing...yes their item descriptions are hokey, but I've seen worse on eBay, and chalked it up to a large volume estate jewelry store. And until just recently they had 700+ feedback at 100% positive rating, so I figured they were legit. Hopefully all will work out as it should.

[nevets616]

Originally Posted by L55HEM

Very good to know. Nice to see some scammers named and shamed. Did he actually refund you or has Amex refunded you or is the case still ongoing ?

So when I opened my case against him, he was contacted by Paypal since Amex did a charge back. Like I mentioned before he agreed to refund me full upon return of the watch. But when he saw this post about him, he demanded I remove it. I told him I would not and he decided to be macho and tell me to F** off and let the process work itself out. I warned him that I have Amex and supporting documents from RSC. He still wouldn't budge. I then forwarded that email conversation to both Paypal and AMEX, showing I was willing to work with the seller, but he refused.

So theres a silver lining to this story, as of this Monday my case has been closed, money was refunded back to me the day I opened the claim with AMEX so I was never hit with the charges. I asked AMEX where I should send the watch, they told me not to worry about it...now I have have a "non-match numbers" Datejust.

So the moral of the story is, always use AMEX on online purchases, I love them!

[Rolex addict]

Thanks for sharing. Stories like this help keep others from getting scammed.

[iliketime]

that's one guy im not gonna buy from! thanks for looking out for us

[cvp808]

Good ending to this story.

Personally, I would send the watch back to the seller (after asking for a US return address) since it cost you nothing. Even if he was a scammer, even if he decided not to work with you anymore - do you really want a relic of that mess in your house?

I wouldn't want anything remotely attached to that person in my space, not even money from selling it.

[Beauregard]

Originally Posted by cvp808

Personally, I would send the watch back to the seller (after asking for a US return address) since it cost you nothing. Even if he was a scammer, even if he decided not to work with you anymore - do you really want a relic of that mess.

With the total lack of integrity the seller displayed I expect he'd then sell it to someone else under the same guise as being genuine.

[cvp808]

Originally Posted by Beauregard

With the total lack of integrity the seller displayed I expect he'd then sell it to someone else under the same guise as being genuine.

I totally agree. I'm just weird with things that remind me of bad times/situations. Needless to say I've donated a lot to goodwill over the years.

[Smisen]

I have bought a watch from him, and now he dosent answear my emails and no watch has arrived?
Think i have been scamed?
Any advice
Best regards
Marius


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lukemurdock]

File a claim with eBay. I won one of his watches on may 19th and it never arrived the day he said it would. Then he got 8 negative feedbacks and his account was suspended. I was supposed to get a refund from eBay today but Nada yet. He told me on the phone that he has been sick. I think he was definitely a scammer. Giving me a date for delivery that never happened. He also said he would send the watch out to be serviced. The listing claimed it was already serviced. he uses the same watches in his pics.
Anyway his accounts been suspended so file that claim.

[nevets616]

Looks like this person has a website now under the same name.

https://royaltycollection.net/

[Professorfingers]

I hate it for all who dealt with this a** hat.

TW

[byeedo]

He needs to be shut down

[jvmartin]

Wasn't he originally in Boston or something? The website says he is now in California and working out of an apartment building in West LA.

[jaustin3705]

I returned an item to them in March
it wasn't as advertised, they use stock pictures, not actual pictures of the watches, the dial was a bit different and the band was very loose,

FYI-when i did the return and i asked for mike, they said he no longer worked there, i dealt with the owner who was a woman named Elizabeth, and they had me fedex the watch to an address in boston