How to clean a Rolex bracelet/band

[CanuckRolex]

Guys, stop with the toothbrush scratching gold or any metal nonsense.

The plastic fibers in the toothbrush are softer on the moh's scale of hardness than any metal and you cannot scratch something with an item that is softer than the metal being rubbed.

Saying it scratches even when you are using it while it is wet with a mild detergent which will act as an additional lubricant is BS.

Sorry, but I had to call you out on this one, its nonsense.

[sbakar]

Originally Posted by CanuckRolex

Guys, stop with the toothbrush scratching gold or any metal nonsense.

The plastic fibers in the toothbrush are softer on the moh's scale of hardness than any metal and you cannot scratch something with an item that is softer than the metal being rubbed.

Saying it scratches even when you are using it while it is wet with a mild detergent which will act as an additional lubricant is BS.

Sorry, but I had to call you out on this one, its nonsense.

I'm afraid you may be wrong on this. The Mohs scale is relative...so, yes, the toothbrush bristles will be affected more by the metal than the metal will be by the bristles. HOWEVER...your eye can resolve fine scratches that are mere microns deep on a highly polished surface. Using the tootbrush may well cause fine scratches, especially on softer materials such as gold. It doesn't take much to cause multiple micron-level scratches that are visible to the naked eye.

Here's another example: should ordinary glass be able to scratch sapphire? On the Mohs scale, glass is around 5.5 while sapphire is around 9. By your example, sapphire should not be scratched. However, using a glass point WILL scratch sapphire, as a local Omega dealer will attest after challenging me to rub the crystal on the edge of his glass case. Using only light pressure, I made a slight scratch in his Seamaster's sapphire. Not huge, but it was noticeable. Very high point stress concentrations can be created by pressing through a glass point. This WILL scratch sapphire! Granted, the glass probably came out much worse in this, but the point is that the sapphire DID scratch.

Something else to think about: if diamond is the hardest substance known to humankind, how are we able to cut diamond? By using diamond, of course! Both pieces of diamond have hardness of 10 Moh and will thus wear each other equally. Again, the point is that the Mohs scale is relative. It cannot be said that something will NEVER scratch something else...only how MUCH will it scratch!

Back to cleaning gold: use a mild soap (NO DETERGENT!!! This causes seals to shrink - why risk that??) and warm water and you will preserve the high polish!

SNB

[wristworks]

Although is doesn't say anything about it in my Rolex manual, my Omega manual says AVOID DETERGENTS.

[305GMTIIc]

the whole thing puzzles me? I have read countless pages on 904L steel used for the case and bracelet on my sports models....yet people suggest that a toothbrush will scratch it???

[CanuckRolex]

Originally Posted by sbakar

I'm afraid you may be wrong on this. The Mohs scale is relative...so, yes, the toothbrush bristles will be affected more by the metal than the metal will be by the bristles. HOWEVER...your eye can resolve fine scratches that are mere microns deep on a highly polished surface. Using the tootbrush may well cause fine scratches, especially on softer materials such as gold. It doesn't take much to cause multiple micron-level scratches that are visible to the naked eye.

Here's another example: should ordinary glass be able to scratch sapphire? On the Mohs scale, glass is around 5.5 while sapphire is around 9. By your example, sapphire should not be scratched. However, using a glass point WILL scratch sapphire, as a local Omega dealer will attest after challenging me to rub the crystal on the edge of his glass case. Using only light pressure, I made a slight scratch in his Seamaster's sapphire. Not huge, but it was noticeable. Very high point stress concentrations can be created by pressing through a glass point. This WILL scratch sapphire! Granted, the glass probably came out much worse in this, but the point is that the sapphire DID scratch.

Something else to think about: if diamond is the hardest substance known to humankind, how are we able to cut diamond? By using diamond, of course! Both pieces of diamond have hardness of 10 Moh and will thus wear each other equally. Again, the point is that the Mohs scale is relative. It cannot be said that something will NEVER scratch something else...only how MUCH will it scratch!

Back to cleaning gold: use a mild soap (NO DETERGENT!!! This causes seals to shrink - why risk that??) and warm water and you will preserve the high polish!

SNB

Sorry, but you are wrong here. As I am a practicing geologist, having a good knowledge of the moh's scale of hardness is key for mineral identification.

There is in no way a possibility that a soft plastic toothbrush bristle will scratch a gold or any metal surface. Now somthing that gets dislodged during the cleaning (a grain of sand) may get lodged in the bristles and therefore cause the scratches but even then only if you use excessive force, but saying the bristles scratch is nothing less than pure ignorant nonsense and the spreading of uninformed baseless opinion.

If that was the case, some of our synthetic sweaters that are essentially made from a thin form of threaded plastic should scratch the heck out of our watches in no time which again, is nonsense.

Using a soft tothbrush is perfectly safe, using a mild detergent is safe and using water and detergent and a soft toothbrush used very lightly is perfectly safe. You are 100 times as likely to scrath a watch dry buffing it with a polishing cloth than even using water, soap and a TB.

Anyone waving the red flag saying that this is unsafe for a watch with the durability and materials used in a Rolex is being overly neurotic and making up stories to back up pure ignorance and the lack of basic knowledge of the fundementals of metals.

[Scojay]

I place mine in some soda water and give it a bubble bath.

BTW, Is this moh?

[sbakar]

Originally Posted by CanuckRolex

Sorry, but you are wrong here. As I am a practicing geologist, having a good knowledge of the moh's scale of hardness is key for mineral identification.

There is in no way a possibility that a soft plastic toothbrush bristle will scratch a gold or any metal surface. Now somthing that gets dislodged during the cleaning (a grain of sand) may get lodged in the bristles and therefore cause the scratches but even then only if you use excessive force, but saying the bristles scratch is nothing less than pure ignorant nonsense and the spreading of uninformed baseless opinion.

If that was the case, some of our synthetic sweaters that are essentially made from a thin form of threaded plastic should scratch the heck out of our watches in no time which again, is nonsense.

Using a soft tothbrush is perfectly safe, using a mild detergent is safe and using water and detergent and a soft toothbrush used very lightly is perfectly safe. You are 100 times as likely to scrath a watch dry buffing it with a polishing cloth than even using water, soap and a TB.

Anyone waving the red flag saying that this is unsafe for a watch with the durability and materials used in a Rolex is being overly neurotic and making up stories to back up pure ignorance and the lack of basic knowledge of the fundementals of metals.

Excellent; a practicing geologist! Then please answer me this with your wisdom: how can glass (5.5 Mohs) scratch sapphire (9 Mohs)? How can we cut (or even scratch) diamonds if two pieces of diamond both have hardness 10 Mohs? The answer is that it is all relative. Mohs scale is relative in that a harder material will experience less wear than a softer one. Remember, there is NO material that is 'scratchproof'.

Also, if you are confident about your knowledge of Mohs scale, let's see a picture of a sapphire crystal being rubbed with garnet paper (pyrope, for e.g., that has a hardness 7.5 Mohs). By your assertion, there should be no scratching whatsoever. However, I bet you will see scratches.

I would also suggest not making allegations that I have bolded in your quote.

SNB

[CanuckRolex]

Originally Posted by sbakar

Excellent; a practicing geologist! Then please answer me this with your wisdom: how can glass (5.5 Mohs) scratch sapphire (9 Mohs)? How can we cut (or even scratch) diamonds if two pieces of diamond both have hardness 10 Mohs? The answer is that it is all relative. Mohs scale is relative in that a harder material will experience less wear than a softer one. Remember, there is NO material that is 'scratchproof'.

Also, if you are confident about your knowledge of Mohs scale, let's see a picture of a sapphire crystal being rubbed with garnet paper (pyrope, for e.g., that has a hardness 7.5 Mohs). By your assertion, there should be no scratching whatsoever. However, I bet you will see scratches.

I would also suggest not making allegations that I have bolded in your quote.

SNB

Sorry, but you are asking things that are not related to the task at hand.

Are we talking about diamonds here? No... So you point is moot.

You arguing about sand paper scratching a synthetic Sapphire crystal has no comparison to a nice and extremely soft plastic bristle toothbrush scratching metal which is nonsense.

Plastic CANNOT SCRATCH METAL. Something embedded in it can, but plastic itself scratching metal? Comon now, are you seriously trying to push that opinion across?

I'd hate to see what it would be doing to your teeth. I don't think they make toothbrushes that scour your teeth and remove tooth enamel.

[Lol-x]

Originally Posted by CanuckRolex

Plastic CANNOT SCRATCH METAL. Something embedded in it can, but plastic itself scratching metal? Comon now, are you seriously trying to push that opinion across?

As a general proposition I don't agree. Take a plastic ruler or object and run it across the brushed finish of your lugs, or case, you can definitely mark it.

[CanuckRolex]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

As a general proposition I don't agree. Take a plastic ruler or object and run it across the brushed finish of your lugs, or case, you can definitely mark it.

that mark is plastic left on the metal, not the plastic scratching the metal.

Plastic cannot scratch metal. It is physically impossible. Now sand or material being caught into the toothbrush will do it, but not the bristles themselves. This is like saying a car wash mitt is scratching your paint when it is actually the material caught in it causing the swirl marks.

I just did what you said and there was a mark, but under the microscope it is the ruler leaving plastic on top of the metal, not scratching into the metal. The plastic them wiped off with no mark after a small rag with some alcohol on it.

this is because the metal is harder that the plastic. You would see the same mark on a ceramic plate if you rubbed a piece of metal on it. Until a hand lnse the mark is metal leaving a deposit on the ceramic plate, not scratching into it.

Its kind of like the use of a pencil.

[sbakar]

Originally Posted by CanuckRolex

Sorry, but you are asking things that are not related to the task at hand.

Are we talking about diamonds here? No... So you point is moot.

You arguing about sand paper scratching a synthetic Sapphire crystal has no comparison to a nice and extremely soft plastic bristle toothbrush scratching metal which is nonsense.

Plastic CANNOT SCRATCH METAL. Something embedded in it can, but plastic itself scratching metal? Comon now, are you seriously trying to push that opinion across?

I'd hate to see what it would be doing to your teeth. I don't think they make toothbrushes that scour your teeth and remove tooth enamel.

My situation is entirely analogous: I am describing how a softer material can still cause scratches in a harder material. I am not sure why you keep trying to dismiss my thought experiment.

In fact, it is your situation that is not relevant: tooth enamel has a highly irregular surface that unevenly reflects light. On such a microscopically coarse surface, a few additional scratches will neither harm functionality nor appearance. This is totally different from a highly polished gold surface that will show very fine scratches quite readily. Again, we are talking about scratches that may be as little as microns deep. At best, teeth have mineralization ridges in the order of tens, if not even up to 100 microns or more.

By your logic, why not use copper wire (3 Mohs) to brush your teeth (4-5 Mohs)? Copper wire is softer, so it should not scratch your teeth, right?

My initial point was that nothing is scratchproof and that we have to consider factors (such as point stresses) OTHER THAN hardness in assessing whether scratches will form.

Regardless...your watch is your's, and my watch is mine. We can each do what we feel like as long as it doesn't harm anyone else.

SNB

[CanuckRolex]

Originally Posted by sbakar

My situation is entirely analogous: I am describing how a softer material can still cause scratches in a harder material. I am not sure why you keep trying to dismiss my thought experiment.

In fact, it is your situation that is not relevant: tooth enamel has a highly irregular surface that unevenly reflects light. On such a microscopically coarse surface, a few additional scratches will neither harm functionality nor appearance. This is totally different from a highly polished gold surface that will show very fine scratches quite readily. Again, we are talking about scratches that may be as little as microns deep. At best, teeth have mineralization ridges in the order of tens, if not even up to 100 microns or more.

By your logic, why not use copper wire (3 Mohs) to brush your teeth (4-5 Mohs)? Copper wire is softer, so it should not scratch your teeth, right?

My initial point was that nothing is scratchproof and that we have to consider factors (such as point stresses) OTHER THAN hardness in assessing whether scratches will form.

Regardless...your watch is your's, and my watch is mine. We can each do what we feel like as long as it doesn't harm anyone else.

SNB

I am not going to argue the moh's scale with you seeing what you are bringing up are outside conjecture based on some selected examples you bring to the table to defer the topic at hand.

the topic at hand is, "You cannot scratch you watch with a soft plastic toothbrush." PERIOD

Plastic is softer than metal, PERIOD

Therefore it cannot directly scratch any metal. If that was the case, we could use a sharp ruler to cut a block of steel or gold which is just nonsense.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by CanuckRolex

Guys, stop with the toothbrush scratching gold or any metal nonsense.

The plastic fibers in the toothbrush are softer on the moh's scale of hardness than any metal and you cannot scratch something with an item that is softer than the metal being rubbed.

Saying it scratches even when you are using it while it is wet with a mild detergent which will act as an additional lubricant is BS.

Sorry, but I had to call you out on this one, its nonsense.

Have to agree with you 100% there, some of the guys with there Rolex watches today they sure get a very pampered life.Just plain old soap and water is all thats need keep watches looking good.Scratches etc from wearing is quite a normal part of its life.But fear not those guys at the RSC at service time, will brush and polish and return your watch almost as good as the first day you bought it.

Originally Posted by sbakar

Back to cleaning gold: use a mild soap (NO DETERGENT!!! This causes seals to shrink - why risk that??) and warm water and you will preserve the high polish!

SNB

How could detergent make the seals shrink,how could the detergent find its way to the seals,if the crown is screwed in the watch should be water and detergent proof.And if you rinse watch fresh water,all the very small residue of any detergent left will be gone.

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by CanuckRolex

Guys, stop with the toothbrush scratching gold or any metal nonsense.

The plastic fibers in the toothbrush are softer on the moh's scale of hardness than any metal and you cannot scratch something with an item that is softer than the metal being rubbed.

Saying it scratches even when you are using it while it is wet with a mild detergent which will act as an additional lubricant is BS.

Sorry, but I had to call you out on this one, its nonsense.

AGREED!! I've been using soft toothbrushes for over 28 years on all the Rolex watches I've ever owned, SS as well as TT. NEVER had a problem!!

[entropydave]

Originally Posted by CanuckRolex

Guys, stop with the toothbrush scratching gold or any metal nonsense.

The plastic fibers in the toothbrush are softer on the moh's scale of hardness than any metal and you cannot scratch something with an item that is softer than the metal being rubbed.

Saying it scratches even when you are using it while it is wet with a mild detergent which will act as an additional lubricant is BS.

Sorry, but I had to call you out on this one, its nonsense.

Absolutely! Let's not be that precious about our tool watches! The only way your toothbrushes can scratch your watch is if you have been using it to clean something gritty - personally, I use a toothbrush solely dedicated for my watch.

[hhh007]

Originally Posted by CanuckRolex

Guys, stop with the toothbrush scratching gold or any metal nonsense.

The plastic fibers in the toothbrush are softer on the moh's scale of hardness than any metal and you cannot scratch something with an item that is softer than the metal being rubbed.

Saying it scratches even when you are using it while it is wet with a mild detergent which will act as an additional lubricant is BS.

Sorry, but I had to call you out on this one, its nonsense.

No, it's not nonsense at all, but rather 100% fact. A toothbrush, no matter how soft will absolutely put hairlines on highly polished gold surfaces as well as silver and even highly polished stainless if you repeat it often enough or scrub hard enough. Even lightly rubbing polished gold with a coarse dry cloth will hairline the surfaces. As a coin collector, I can't tell you how many otherwise very valuable coins I've seen completely ruined by people 'cleaning' them with a toothbrush or a rag or whatever and completely destroying the original surfaces.

As far as not being able to scratch something with an item that is softer......have you ever seen how easily a diamond can become scratched through careless handling or cleaning?