New Radiomir PAM01385

[duc888]

Did already we introduced this one to the forum?

https://www.panerai.com/us/en/home/r...-pam01385.html

[hojlund]

a new model number, another limited edition, but the design is nothing new.

[shammad10]

Just same old, same old. Even as a watch enthusiast and an owner of 4 Panerai's I am really struggling to tell the difference between all these models/limited editions.

[Cru Jones]

Nice dial. Not a crazy price.

[Polar Bear]

I dig it and the price point is pretty good

I was reading through some of the responses to the release on the Paneristi FBook page this morning and found myself rolling my eyes at the general sentiment towards this model
Most of the people who shout the loudest about "Panerai going back to their roots" shot this model down for being "nothing new or interesting about it"

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by hojlund

a new model number, another limited edition, but the design is nothing new.

Originally Posted by shammad10

Just same old, same old. Even as a watch enthusiast and an owner of 4 Panerai's I am really struggling to tell the difference between all these models/limited editions.

Given the "design DNA" of Panerai, they dont really have much to play around with in terms of new looks

Especially when they've tried:
New dial layouts ("they're getting away from their roots!")
New dial colors ("they're getting away from their roots!")
New case materials ("they're overpriced")
New complications ("they're over priced AND getting away from their roots")
New case sizes ("they're getting away from their roots!")
2 new model lines in the 1940 and Due ("its just a Luminor without the Crown Guard!" and "they're getting away from their roots!")
Limited Production runs to test the market ("Too Many Limited Editions")
Partnering with various Brands to increase exposure ("they're getting away from their roots!")

I mean, there are only so many variations you can make on:
44mm-47mm
2 basic dial layouts (2 hand and 3 hand)
4 basic case shapes
Before you have to go back to the well when people keep asking for a new model

From what i can tell, all the Paneristi seem to want these days is some modern reinterpretation of the 372 and 111 (which they wont buy because they already own a 372 and 111)
I'd love to put 10 old school Paneristi in a room and ask them to design their perfect modern Panerai
I'd bet money you'd find they'd cook up something that either already exists, or, is 95% the same as something that already exists

[itim]

Paneristis complained about the 1350, I'm not surprised they complain about 1385 which is a 'budget' version with a less nice, cheaper dial.

Given where 1350 is in terms of discounted pricing now, I imagine 1385 isn't exactly going off the online shelf quickly.

[Saoirse32]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

Given the "design DNA" of Panerai, they dont really have much to play around with in terms of new looks

Especially when they've tried:
New dial layouts ("they're getting away from their roots!")
New dial colors ("they're getting away from their roots!")
New case materials ("they're overpriced")
New complications ("they're over priced AND getting away from their roots")
New case sizes ("they're getting away from their roots!")
2 new model lines in the 1940 and Due ("its just a Luminor without the Crown Guard!" and "they're getting away from their roots!")
Limited Production runs to test the market ("Too Many Limited Editions")
Partnering with various Brands to increase exposure ("they're getting away from their roots!")

I mean, there are only so many variations you can make on:
44mm-47mm
2 basic dial layouts (2 hand and 3 hand)
4 basic case shapes
Before you have to go back to the well when people keep asking for a new model

From what i can tell, all the Paneristi seem to want these days is some modern reinterpretation of the 372 and 111 (which they wont buy because they already own a 372 and 111)
I'd love to put 10 old school Paneristi in a room and ask them to design their perfect modern Panerai
I'd bet money you'd find they'd cook up something that either already exists, or, is 95% the same as something that already exists

Well said.
I quite like this release. But I think some will complain just to complain.


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[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

Most of the people who shout the loudest about "Panerai going back to their roots" shot this model down for being "nothing new or interesting about it"

Exactly.

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

Given the "design DNA" of Panerai, they dont really have much to play around with in terms of new looks

Especially when they've tried:
New dial layouts ("they're getting away from their roots!")
New dial colors ("they're getting away from their roots!")
New case materials ("they're overpriced")
New complications ("they're over priced AND getting away from their roots")
New case sizes ("they're getting away from their roots!")
2 new model lines in the 1940 and Due ("its just a Luminor without the Crown Guard!" and "they're getting away from their roots!")
Limited Production runs to test the market ("Too Many Limited Editions")
Partnering with various Brands to increase exposure ("they're getting away from their roots!")

I mean, there are only so many variations you can make on:
44mm-47mm
2 basic dial layouts (2 hand and 3 hand)
4 basic case shapes
Before you have to go back to the well when people keep asking for a new model

From what i can tell, all the Paneristi seem to want these days is some modern reinterpretation of the 372 and 111 (which they wont buy because they already own a 372 and 111)
I'd love to put 10 old school Paneristi in a room and ask them to design their perfect modern Panerai
I'd bet money you'd find they'd cook up something that either already exists, or, is 95% the same as something that already exists

Spot on assessment.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

Given the "design DNA" of Panerai, they dont really have much to play around with in terms of new looks

Especially when they've tried:
New dial layouts ("they're getting away from their roots!")
New dial colors ("they're getting away from their roots!")
New case materials ("they're overpriced")
New complications ("they're over priced AND getting away from their roots")
New case sizes ("they're getting away from their roots!")
2 new model lines in the 1940 and Due ("its just a Luminor without the Crown Guard!" and "they're getting away from their roots!")
Limited Production runs to test the market ("Too Many Limited Editions")
Partnering with various Brands to increase exposure ("they're getting away from their roots!")

I mean, there are only so many variations you can make on:
44mm-47mm
2 basic dial layouts (2 hand and 3 hand)
4 basic case shapes
Before you have to go back to the well when people keep asking for a new model

From what i can tell, all the Paneristi seem to want these days is some modern reinterpretation of the 372 and 111 (which they wont buy because they already own a 372 and 111)
I'd love to put 10 old school Paneristi in a room and ask them to design their perfect modern Panerai
I'd bet money you'd find they'd cook up something that either already exists, or, is 95% the same as something that already exists

Another

[hojlund]

do they look alike?

[Saoirse32]

Originally Posted by hojlund

do they look alike?

Nope


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[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by hojlund

do they look alike?

If you can’t see the significant differences between these two models, Panerai isn’t for you.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by hojlund

do they look alike?

Only in the sense that they're both Radomirs with Brown Dials and Brown Straps
The Eilean dial is much nicer though, IMO

[Armis]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

Given the "design DNA" of Panerai, they dont really have much to play around with in terms of new looks

From what i can tell, all the Paneristi seem to want these days is some modern reinterpretation of the 372 and 111 (which they wont buy because they already own a 372 and 111)
I'd love to put 10 old school Paneristi in a room and ask them to design their perfect modern Panerai
I'd bet money you'd find they'd cook up something that either already exists, or, is 95% the same as something that already exists

This post says it all, precisely.
It does then beg the question of what can Panerai do moving forward? Playing around with classic pieces using new dial colors can be a gamble. Almost anything seems a gamble. Otherwise, you just focus more on the new generation of collectors…who themselves are influenced by historical and storied pieces.
Challenging business strategy.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by Armis

This post says it all, precisely.
It does then beg the question of what can Panerai do moving forward? Playing around with classic pieces using new dial colors can be a gamble. Almost anything seems a gamble. Otherwise, you just focus more on the new generation of collectors…who themselves are influenced by historical and storied pieces.
Challenging business strategy.

I think its a 2-pronged approach
Try to keep your existing clientele (the ones who buy pieces at retail, anyway) by releasing more traditional models every once in a while, while at the same time releasing models "that go against Panerai DNA" (little to no WR, smaller cases, feminine dial colors, weird collabs etc) in the hopes of attracting a new breed of younger customer, attracted to the unique design aesthetics of the brand rather than its history.

I think they really need a new model line that is more of a design departure from their current offerings, but while they're so tied to their history, they're kinda stunted as they cant bring a new case or dial design to market without it pointing (in some way) to a historical reference

So, they're basically forced to keep their old fans happy until they age out and hope they have a younger, less fussy, client base to fill the void

I dont think Modern Panerai is all that interested in keep the Paneristi happy anymore, which is for the best IMO if the brand wants to survive

They could lower their price points a bit, though

[shammad10]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

I think its a 2-pronged approach
Try to keep your existing clientele (the ones who buy pieces at retail, anyway) by releasing more traditional models every once in a while, while at the same time releasing models "that go against Panerai DNA" (little to no WR, smaller cases, feminine dial colors, weird collabs etc) in the hopes of attracting a new breed of younger customer, attracted to the unique design aesthetics of the brand rather than its history.

I think they really need a new model line that is more of a design departure from their current offerings, but while they're so tied to their history, they're kinda stunted as they cant bring a new case or dial design to market without it pointing (in some way) to a historical reference

So, they're basically forced to keep their old fans happy until they age out and hope they have a younger, less fussy, client base to fill the void

I dont think Modern Panerai is all that interested in keep the Paneristi happy anymore, which is for the best IMO if the brand wants to survive

They could lower their price points a bit, though

I completely agree with everything you've said here.
I own four Panerai I have bought at retail over the last 3 years, none of them larger than 42mm, as I just don't have the wrist for it.
I am sick of the whole '44mm or 47mm' crew who lambast everything that Panerai do.

Having said that, they desperately need something new and innovative, it just seems that they change dial colour every year in the models.

I think the new 40mm Quaranta GMT is a step in the right direction, however like you, I think they need a new line of watches with a new design.

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by shammad10

Having said that, they desperately need something new and innovative, it just seems that they change dial colour every year in the models.

Does Rolex desperately need a new and innovative Submariner, GMT, Date-Just or Day-Date (for example)?

[shammad10]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

Does Rolex desperately need a new and innovative Submariner, GMT, Date-Just or Day-Date (for example)?

The difference is that Rolex don't need to innovate. They sell out everything and they can't make enough watches.

Panerai is not in the same position as Rolex. And if they think that they are and rest on their laurels then they are deluded, and it will be a recipe for disaster.

And having said that, Rolex do innovate to a certain extent, and update. For example the ceramic bezels, silicone hairsprings etc.
Even Omega is trying to innovate with the METAS certification, new SPIROMAX hairspring etc.
Panerai on the other hand seems to be going backwards with movements etc

[hojlund]

Originally Posted by shammad10

The difference is that Rolex don't need to innovate. They sell out everything and they can't make enough watches.

Panerai is not in the same position as Rolex. And if they think that they are and rest on their laurels then they are deluded, and it will be a recipe for disaster.

And having said that, Rolex do innovate to a certain extent, and update. For example the ceramic bezels, silicone hairsprings etc.
Even Omega is trying to innovate with the METAS certification, new SPIROMAX hairspring etc.
Panerai on the other hand seems to be going backwards with movements etc

panerai do explore variety of case materials, bmg tech, carbotech, titanium, recycled steel, which is good.

[Cassidyanne]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

If you can’t see the significant differences between these two models, Panerai isn’t for you.

That's exactly why it isn't for most....other than an Paneristi, most can't and that's why Panerai struggles. To the average buyer, they all look the same.

BTW, I own a number of Panerais and love them but there's no way of getting around the facts. Too many simialar looking models....

[The OG Beef]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

Given the "design DNA" of Panerai, they dont really have much to play around with in terms of new looks

Especially when they've tried:
New dial layouts ("they're getting away from their roots!")
New dial colors ("they're getting away from their roots!")
New case materials ("they're overpriced")
New complications ("they're over priced AND getting away from their roots")
New case sizes ("they're getting away from their roots!")
2 new model lines in the 1940 and Due ("its just a Luminor without the Crown Guard!" and "they're getting away from their roots!")
Limited Production runs to test the market ("Too Many Limited Editions")
Partnering with various Brands to increase exposure ("they're getting away from their roots!")

I mean, there are only so many variations you can make on:
44mm-47mm
2 basic dial layouts (2 hand and 3 hand)
4 basic case shapes
Before you have to go back to the well when people keep asking for a new model

From what i can tell, all the Paneristi seem to want these days is some modern reinterpretation of the 372 and 111 (which they wont buy because they already own a 372 and 111)
I'd love to put 10 old school Paneristi in a room and ask them to design their perfect modern Panerai
I'd bet money you'd find they'd cook up something that either already exists, or, is 95% the same as something that already exists

I’m old-school with an open mind and will say that you are correct, but only 100%.


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[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

Does Rolex desperately need a new and innovative Submariner, GMT, Date-Just or Day-Date (for example)?

Innovation only happens when the market demands it
Rolex have innovated in component and material design, but thats largely to bolster their robustness, rather than their appeal.

If the world turned upside down and the market no longer gave a crap about Rolex, I'm pretty sure they'd start throwing all sorts of stuff at the wall to find what sticks, but while theyre beating customer off with a stick, there's something to be said for "if it aint broke, dont fix it"
You kinda saw that in the 90s with all the weird dial Daytona's and Day Dates that are now so collectable

Panerai, on the other hand is trying desperately to claw back some market share after their heyday of the early 2000s.
They spent too long focusing on their hardcore fanbase, even after the wider market moved on and they've been paying for it ever since

[Polar Bear]

For the record, its worth mentioning that I am far from a Panerai Hater
I own 2
A 44mm Luminor and a 47mm Rad
I'm currently trying to convince myself that a 47mm Luminor WONT look like a dinner plate on my wrist, and if that works out, I'll be adding one to the watch box
Next will likely be a 47mm Sub

I love old Panerai BUT, i fully acknowledge that any modern reference I'd be interested in will not be purchased from an AD, so I'm also part of the problem when the brand moves in a direction I'm not enthused about

[htc8p]

it doesnt matter what panerai comes out with, as long as the it's super low quality relative to the price...it's junk

[Saoirse32]

Originally Posted by htc8p

it doesnt matter what panerai comes out with, as long as the it's super low quality relative to the price...it's junk

Wow. What?


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[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by htc8p

it doesnt matter what panerai comes out with, as long as the it's super low quality relative to the price...it's junk

I disagree but you do you, boo

[shammad10]

Originally Posted by htc8p

it doesnt matter what panerai comes out with, as long as the it's super low quality relative to the price...it's junk

I don't fully agree with you. But I do understand where you're coming from.

I owned a submersible Bianco and on a rubber strap it cost me more than my new Rolex subC, but the quality was not the same. The bezel had loads of play to it, it got magnetised twice from just daily life, ran at like +12secs/day- which the Panerai boutique said was within their specs.

[emtee]

I think the problem that Panerai have (or I certainly have) with these models is that although these all look very nice if you already own a Radiomir then why would you buy another that looks almost exactly the same unless you were an obsessive collector? I had 3 luminors at one point but sold 2 as they were just too similar and I felt that money could be better put into diversifying my collection.