Rolex movments are better than AP movments .is that true?

[kkwn98]

Originally Posted by esm

thanks Oleg! great info!
so now can i safely say that my Omega Speedy Pro 3570.50 has a Berguet movement


seriously, this is a great & informative thread, great timing for me as i have strated looking at hi-end watches for my next purchase. i'm now very intrigued about the JLC brand. i do like their Master Control Automatic watch

EDIT - Oleg, are you able to confirm if AP is still using the JLC modified 920 movement or have they moved onto a completely AP in-house movement for their Royal Oak watches? thanks.

Audemars Piguet still use the Jaeger-LeCoultre base calibre 920, which is designated the calibre 2120 by Audemars. They tend to be used in the more high end automatic Audemars timepieces, including their QPs.

One thing to bear in mind about the JLC calibre 920 - it was a collaborative design effort by Audemars, Patek and possibly Vacheron (not 100% certain about Vacheron). The actual manufacture of the calibre was by JLC. It's no surprise, since, for the longest time, JLC have always been known as the watchmakers' watchmaker. It's only more recently that they have put an emphasis on their own watches. However, they have always been an absolutely top-notch manufacture.

[SCD]

Given the technological precision available with modern manufacturing and the quality of care and materials used in all thse brands, I wonder it matters more which company will be able to provide more trusted, reliable and easily available service for the watch 10, 20 and 35 years from now.

I am relatively ignorant here, but for these considerations I've been impressed by what I've heard about the Rolex enterprise.

[esm]

Originally Posted by kkwn98

Audemars Piguet still use the Jaeger-LeCoultre base calibre 920, which is designated the calibre 2120 by Audemars. They tend to be used in the more high end automatic Audemars timepieces, including their QPs.

One thing to bear in mind about the JLC calibre 920 - it was a collaborative design effort by Audemars, Patek and possibly Vacheron (not 100% certain about Vacheron). The actual manufacture of the calibre was by JLC. It's no surprise, since, for the longest time, JLC have always been known as the watchmakers' watchmaker. It's only more recently that they have put an emphasis on their own watches. However, they have always been an absolutely top-notch manufacture.

thanks KK. great knowledge!

bumped into JLC website today and have signed up to their LeClub thingy

im very intrigued by those high-end watch companies these days. what is your view on companies like JLC, AP, Patek & VC with their "simple & basic" automatic pieces?

[haakon59]

AP movements are hand finished and well decorated, something which Rolex as a mass manufacturer doesn't do. The two brands are in completely different classes. Rolex has many advantages for the average person: reasonable maintenance rates and they make watches of good quality. AP is a watch company that makes elite, functional works of art and they test the boundaries in terms of establishing a wide range of functions for mechanicals. Rolex is interested in mass marketing and sells those models which maintain a high sales rate. Rolex is a quality brand still.

[1000ftSub]

Originally Posted by sbux

but AP movement is MUCH BETTER looking..

Well there can't be to much of a price different, the cheapest AP is what? around 15,000?

[Tony-GB]

Originally Posted by kkwn98

Audemars Piguet still use the Jaeger-LeCoultre base calibre 920, which is designated the calibre 2120 by Audemars. They tend to be used in the more high end automatic Audemars timepieces, including their QPs.

One thing to bear in mind about the JLC calibre 920 - it was a collaborative design effort by Audemars, Patek and possibly Vacheron (not 100% certain about Vacheron). The actual manufacture of the calibre was by JLC. It's no surprise, since, for the longest time, JLC have always been known as the watchmakers' watchmaker. It's only more recently that they have put an emphasis on their own watches. However, they have always been an absolutely top-notch manufacture.

Superb info.

[boa2]

Originally Posted by 1000ftSub

Well there can't be to much of a price different, the cheapest AP is what? around 15,000?

You can get a number of them for around $10K.

It's pointless to compare Rolex with this. They are playing completely different games... (not my pics)

[kkwn98]

Originally Posted by esm

thanks KK. great knowledge!

bumped into JLC website today and have signed up to their LeClub thingy

im very intrigued by those high-end watch companies these days. what is your view on companies like JLC, AP, Patek & VC with their "simple & basic" automatic pieces?

esm, based on my experience of watches from JLC, AP and VC, I would say their "simple and basic" automatic pieces are outstanding. I haven't had any problems with the ones I own. I'm careful with them for sure, but no more careful than with any of my other watches. The only major problem with these three manufactures is that, even with their simple automatics, prices are spiralling out of control. Actually, that's not quite true; JLCs can still be had for realistic prices, although I fear they'll eventually go the way of Patek, VC and AP. Of course, it's horses for courses. Not everyone will like or appreciate their wares; but that's OK - that's why there are so many makes out there. There's something for everyone.

[esm]

Originally Posted by kkwn98

esm, based on my experience of watches from JLC, AP and VC, I would say their "simple and basic" automatic pieces are outstanding. I haven't had any problems with the ones I own. I'm careful with them for sure, but no more careful than with any of my other watches. The only major problem with these three manufactures is that, even with their simple automatics, prices are spiralling out of control. Actually, that's not quite true; JLCs can still be had for realistic prices, although I fear they'll eventually go the way of Patek, VC and AP. Of course, it's horses for courses. Not everyone will like or appreciate their wares; but that's OK - that's why there are so many makes out there. There's something for everyone.

thanks again! great info
hopefully be able to pull the trigger on one of these bad boys early next year

[mpkRolex]

Like few people on this forum have already said it - It is relative and nothing is absolute. You saying Rolex is better me saying AP is better does not matter. It all comes down to parameters around which you build your definition of "better" and your perception about a watch being better.

I think for a price tag of $10K a daytona fits my needs of sleek design, mechanical time accuracy to some extent, chronograph feature, "Rolex" factor for the status symbol etc all of which make my definition of the best watch I can possibly own (important). That is because I know my limitations

At the same time I admire a AP and its complications but would never own one. If I had $10k to spend and all things being equal I would go for a Rolex. Its all relative my friend no matter who says what.

[frank gama]

Originally Posted by Luv rolex

being handmade and in small fraction production doesnt mean to have a better movments. I think they are expensive cuz the small no. Produced thats it and ofcourse the high end but not sure of better movments

Rolex is mass produced with state of the art robotics. Apart from bring down costs this has the advantage of CONSISTENTLY producing reliable and accurate movements. Its a known fact that the percentage of Rolexes passing COSC testing the first time round is consistently higher then other brands including
"hand made high end brands". Yes the other brands do pass COSC but with lots of "tweaking" which again drives cost up. Expensive is not always better.

[Safetrends]

Boats are money pits. In San Diego the war ships are always going for repairs, hulls need to be cleaned, engines overhauled etc.

I am really dumb when it comes to watches, however a Rolex watch is the best of the best in my opinion and I am in love with my vintage Rolex watch.

[HL65]

The bottom line is watches are about personal preference. The Big 3 Swiss watches are:
Patek, Vacheron Constantin and Audemars Piguet. They are in a league of their own. the most marketed and well known Swiss watch is Rolex. As for me--I like them all--but have to admit nothing is like my AP ROO Rubberclad--it is the most unique and well built watch I own---but that is my taste. I must also add that when buying the Big 3--you are paying for the quality and exclusivity of a handmade swiss watch that you are not likely to see on a lot of folks. Again--to each is own--AP is not as well known as Rolex but it certainly is in watch worlds recognized as one of the best brands of all time. I must admit as I type this I am staring at my wrist as I am wearing my AP Rubberclad now.
AP ROO Rubberclad:
AP RC 1.jpg

[Goodwatch]

IWC are in that league as well, with a number of their movements. And of course there are gems from companies that you don't expect it from:

[HL65]

IWC certainly is a top company as is Jaeger, and A Lange Sohne--it is just that the other 3 are considered the Big 3!! I have owned all of them--all bring a different style and quality of their own to watches.

[boa2]

Originally Posted by Goodwatch

IWC are in that league as well, with a number of their movements.

IWC is a very fine company, with many superb watches. But I would never consider them the equivalent of Patek, AP, VC or Lange. I've owned 5 IWCs, and just my 2 cents, but IWC doesn't produce anything at the level of finishing or complexity of these... (not my images)

[snow_rocks]

everyone!

When comparing apples and oranges, and bananas, what are you really comparing, size, taste, color, etc, etc, etc .....

everyone, I enjoyed my stay!

[Watch Professor]

AP is a magnificent brand.

[HL65]

No question boa2--I agree!!! The one watch that I owned that was at that level by another house was the Jaeger Master Tourbillon in RG--that was quite a watch.
JLC 1.jpg

[Goodwatch]

Originally Posted by boa2

IWC is a very fine company, with many superb watches. But I would never consider them the equivalent of Patek, AP, VC or Lange. I've owned 5 IWCs, and just my 2 cents, but IWC doesn't produce anything at the level of finishing or complexity of these... (not my images)

It all depends on what you consider finishing and complexity of course (this is no shouting match, no contest. I will never engage in this. But there's so much more that never reaches the general public):

[HL65]

Again--of those top 6 watch houses--all have masterpieces--no question about that. On average though--the Big 3 are the Big 3--Patek, AP and VC. I would also add that the overall lineup that A. Lange & Sohne boasts is up to that level. The other companies--IWC and JLC have a handful of awesome timepieces but also make watches that cater to the lower price range--which the Big 3 and Lange do not. In fact AP, Patek and Lange's lineups are almost entirely designed for the highend. Again--all of the companies make fine timepieces--as does Rolex for that matter--not to mention great movements.

[toddb]

Originally Posted by promethus

You don't want to know the servicing cost for an AP ROO...........

Do you know how much to service a 15300 royal oak chronometer? could be the deciding factor for me, vs the new DJ 2 ....

[Dr. Robert]

"Bah humbug....Rolex has the best movements."
Freddie Wilsdorf.

[Julian,Sea Dweller]

I had an Audermars Piquet a few years ago it went back for repair at least 4 times in the space of 2 years , it kept stopping they even put a new movement in. My Rolexs have never stopped or let me down over 22 years .

[bewithabob]

i am unqualified to comment on this topic; that being said, I wouldnt mind having an AP in my collection....everything I have read. and heard about AP is that it is among the best quality of watch makers- in a league with PP.

[boa2]

Originally Posted by Goodwatch

It all depends on what you consider finishing and complexity of course (this is no shouting match, no contest. I will never engage in this. But there's so much more that never reaches the general public):

Definitely, no shouting here.

Though I've had this watch in my hands, and it is magnificent, it was--in my opinion--not at the level of these other brands...who also happen to have many watches in this realm. Again, just my opinion.

[boa2]

Originally Posted by toddb

Do you know how much to service a 15300 royal oak chronometer? could be the deciding factor for me, vs the new DJ 2 ....

I believe it's around $6-700...but confirm with the service center.

[Traveler]

Rolex suits my needs and lifestyle just fine. Any other brand, no matter how expensive or esoteric just does nothing for me personally. I am brand loyal to Rolex..I just like the look, feel and tradition of a Rolexl...to each his own..but as for me,,you can keep the other brands with the long hard to pronounce names..

[toddb]

Just got back from la jolla and tried on the A P 15300.....They had white face and the charcoal blue color ... Wasn't THAT impressed...They were lovely; for sure, but didnt Grab me enuf.... by the way, the white face makes it appear larger next to the darker face models, next to each other on display..... optical illusion !

[islandcouple]

I am lucky I have 2 AP's, These are totally different watches, both are great brands, but I'm sorry to say the AP is the better watch. Oh and I have owned and still own a Rolex SD. But you have to be willing to spend at least $17 000AUD on an entry level AP RO.