Deepsea still a bargain compared to Grand Seiko

[timelord]

OK,
I was contemplating on the Deepsea model to replace my seadweller that is no longer as water resistant as it was designed to be - Long story!!. I thought that it was still out of my budget for now but I was blown away when I saw the price of the Seiko 200 m water resistant #SBGA029J1 which is a Grand Seiko in titanium. I can understand that titanium is expensive, but I am sure that I could afford two submariners for the price of what this Seiko goes for. Although Seikos also make good watches, I would never believe to see the day when a new Seiko would cost more than a Rolex unless it was made from platinum and diamonds

[gwalker]

There are plenty of GS fans and owners on here. That is an amazing watch. I have a DSSD and I would really suggest you try it on several times before pulling the trigger. If you really liked the SD you might want to try a Sub C.

[Dr. Robert]

I just checked "Seiya Japan" site.....US$8125. shipped......that's a lot of semolians
for a 200 m rated dive watch, even if it is a GS (they make magnificent watches) but
this one....I'd get a 116610 or a pre-owned DSSD from TRF.
p.s. I am not wild about the hands on the GS dive watch.....for an upsacle Seiko dive watch, I'd get the Seiko Marinemaster 300, SBDX001....movement is GS quality....300m rated.

[George Ab]

The Grand Seiko is one heck of a watch. The model you are referencing uses spring drive technology which resolves many of the problems inherent with mechanical watches. It fits and finish is at an exceptionally high level.

I understand many will not get past the word "Seiko" and have prejudged what the company has done with their Credor and Grand Seiko lines.

How Spring Drive works courtesy of the American Watchmakers-Clockmakers Institute and Timezone:
http://www.timezone.com/library/rdnotebook/200509073623

[le_baroudeur]

The sbdx001 is a great watch, but it seems to have only one crown gasket (correct me if i am wrong), i do not know if it is the same thing with the Grand Seiko: while the first gasket only is under pressure when diving, it is ways good to have a "backup" gasket if the first one is not as waterproof as expected: that is why i took the (slimmer) sub. Any thoughts on this?

[clarencek]

Originally Posted by timelord

OK,
I was contemplating on the Deepsea model to replace my seadweller that is no longer as water resistant as it was designed to be - Long story!!. I thought that it was still out of my budget for now but I was blown away when I saw the price of the Seiko 200 m water resistant #SBGA029J1 which is a Grand Seiko in titanium. I can understand that titanium is expensive, but I am sure that I could afford two submariners for the price of what this Seiko goes for. Although Seikos also make good watches, I would never believe to see the day when a new Seiko would cost more than a Rolex unless it was made from platinum and diamonds

I own a Seiko SBGA031 which is the Ti version. Similar to Rolex, part of the pricing issue is the exchange rate. When I bought the watch it was around mid-$5K. No longer.

Similar to Rolex, the prices just keep going up and up even though the MSRP from Seiko has remained somewhat constant.
Another nice thing is the GS Boutiques in Asia will discount which is where I got mine.

As for the watch itself, it gets 99% of my wrist time. It's light, dresses up and down, comfortable, flies under the radar and deadly accurate. It's the best watch I've ever owned and I've owned a few. :-)

[Puffy]

interesting...

in the looks department the DSSD wins hands down though...

[CEG]

You learn something every day, I sure had no idea that a Seiko could cost so much! Ignorance I guess...

[padi56]

Originally Posted by George Ab

The Grand Seiko is one heck of a watch. The model you are referencing uses spring drive technology which resolves many of the problems inherent with mechanical watches. It fits and finish is at an exceptionally high level.

I understand many will not get past the word "Seiko" and have prejudged what the company has done with their Credor and Grand Seiko lines.

How Spring Drive works courtesy of the American Watchmakers-Clockmakers Institute and Timezone:
http://www.timezone.com/library/rdnotebook/200509073623

Would have to agree the Seiko Grand is one of the finest mechanical movements made today.And one of the main reasons for todays COSC testing facilities.Now before the Swiss COSC was formed as we all know it today, there were then the Swiss Observatory testing competitions to a higher standard than todays watered down COSC test Now during the entire 23 years of testing,just 5093 wristwatches were submitted for this certification, and only 3253 were passed, about 64%.Today the first time pass rate at the COSC is around 85-90% and most movements today are mass produced so in theory they should be all the same so fairly easy to pass this test today.Now in those early days just a few manufacturers participated, and only brands like Omega and Patek did so every year. The others brands were Rolex, Zenith, Longines, Movado, Vacheron & Constantin, Ulysse Nardin, Cyma and Favre-Leuba, along with numerous other independent professional watchmakers.Now that was until Seiko come on the scene and started to wipe the floor with the Swiss mechanical watch industry.Now only 2 brands in the + 23 years of the competitions submitted movements of serial production for retail sale(Seiko and GP).All other brands they were specially made movements just for the competition.and it was ended by the swiss in the early 1970s after two straight wins by the Japanese straight off the production line Seiko Grand.


Now Seiko first entered these competition,with watches from all over the world,including most of the Swiss high end brands.But then for a much higher standard than the now Swiss COSC,the Astronomical Observatory Authorisation Chronometer Standard.Out of many watches summited only two passed this very strict test a Seiko Grand a just off the production line model, and Giraud Peregaux a specially build for the test model.And in the late 1960s there were only two companies, who could sell watches, passed Astronomical Observatory Authorisation Chronometer in those days. ---Seiko and Giraud Peregaux.As the Japanese had dominated in the late 1960s and the two preceding events,it was around 1972 that some Swiss watch manufacturers demanded the end of the observatory competitions. And it was ended in 1973,now thats when the todays Swiss COSC was founded afraid today a COSC tested watch is not the holy grail of watchmaking its just a certification pass at the time of testing.

Originally Posted by CEG

You learn something every day, I sure had no idea that a Seiko could cost so much! Ignorance I guess...

Thats mainly down to most thinking Seiko only produce mass cheap type watches.But watches like the Seiko Grand/ Credor range have been going since the 1960s. But then not heard of in the west then mainly Japan but when the Internet started the Seiko Grand got more recognition world wide .

[BH13GMT]

Originally Posted by CEG

You learn something every day, I sure had no idea that a Seiko could cost so much! Ignorance I guess...

Grand Seiko is a seperate brand from normal Seiko (Toyota and Lexus is a similar comparison), its only been available in the far east until recently which will explain the lack of exposure in CONUS and Europe. We have a few AD's in London selling GS. There are a lot of posts on TRF debating GS if you wish to find out more.

[Singslinger]

Originally Posted by clarencek

I own a Seiko SBGA031 which is the Ti version. Similar to Rolex, part of the pricing issue is the exchange rate. When I bought the watch it was around mid-$5K. No longer.

Similar to Rolex, the prices just keep going up and up even though the MSRP from Seiko has remained somewhat constant.
Another nice thing is the GS Boutiques in Asia will discount which is where I got mine.

As for the watch itself, it gets 99% of my wrist time. It's light, dresses up and down, comfortable, flies under the radar and deadly accurate. It's the best watch I've ever owned and I've owned a few. :-)

That's a fine looking watch !

[kkwn98]

Originally Posted by timelord

OK,
I would never believe to see the day when a new Seiko would cost more than a Rolex unless it was made from platinum and diamonds

Look no further than the Credor Spring Drive Sonnerie, which retails for in excess of $400,000. Pink gold, leather strap and no diamonds.

[BeekerMuppet]

I just want to say I love Grand Seiko's. From the 56xx, 61xx to the new SBGR001. The SBGR037 is my grail watch!

[Rags]

Originally Posted by clarencek

I own a Seiko SBGA031 which is the Ti version. Similar to Rolex, part of the pricing issue is the exchange rate. When I bought the watch it was around mid-$5K. No longer.

Similar to Rolex, the prices just keep going up and up even though the MSRP from Seiko has remained somewhat constant.
Another nice thing is the GS Boutiques in Asia will discount which is where I got mine.

As for the watch itself, it gets 99% of my wrist time. It's light, dresses up and down, comfortable, flies under the radar and deadly accurate. It's the best watch I've ever owned and I've owned a few. :-)

I don't like the hands that seiko uses. The mercedes hands are nicer looking..

[buddy13]

I think the MSRP is still less than a SubC and DSSD....

I bought my SubC USED (mint) for 7000USD..so how can you buy 2 Subs with 8000USD worth of NEW Grand Seiko ?

The SubC is no slouch in fit and finish but ANY grand Seiko will blow you away..you just have to handle one to appreciate ...

[rad87gn]

Originally Posted by kkwn98

Look no further than the Credor Spring Drive Sonnerie, which retails for in excess of $400,000. Pink gold, leather strap and no diamonds.

That is a crazy watch! Can't believe it's not water resistant at all though.

http://www.seikospringdrive.com/sonnerie/

[bondtoys]

Originally Posted by padi56

Would have to agree the Seiko Grand is one of the finest mechanical movements made today....

Very good and interesting read, Padi!

Thanks!

[bondtoys]

Please excuse the probably stupid question: Do these spring drive movements need a battery (for the electronic brake, quartz module and electronics)?

Edit:
http://www.grand-seiko.com/manufactu...gdrive_01.html

It uses the energy from the main spring.

Question is, if it still needs a rechargeable battery or if it's entirely autonome

[Cabaiguan]

The Yen's exchange rate right now is atrocious and mostly to blame for these prices. I'm a huge GS fan, but the rate is making them unattractive at the moment.

[Kanger]

The Grand Seiko is one of the nicest and most well made mechanical watch families in the entire industry.

[harry in montreal]

i am shocked at the price of that GS. its nice, but i cant get my head around the name seiko.

i am sure that the expensive V8 hyundai is a fine car too...

[RJK]

A comparison to a Hyundai is hardly fair or even close to being accurate.

[timelord]

Originally Posted by buddy13

I think the MSRP is still less than a SubC and DSSD....

I bought my SubC USED (mint) for 7000USD..so how can you buy 2 Subs with 8000USD worth of NEW Grand Seiko ?

The SubC is no slouch in fit and finish but ANY grand Seiko will blow you away..you just have to handle one to appreciate ...

I should have been clearer. When I purchased my BNIB submariner 16610 from the RF some 20 months ago for just over $5000 when a Grand Seiko model retailed for $10450 in my country.

[sierra11b]

Originally Posted by buddy13

The SubC is no slouch in fit and finish but ANY grand Seiko will blow you away..you just have to handle one to appreciate ...

Very true!

TO THE OP: Have you looked at the GS SBGE001 GMT? It edges-out the GMTIIC in specs (72hr PR, +/-15sec MONTH), is the price of a used GMTIIC, and has 200M WR to boot:

http://www.seiyajapan.com/product/S-...GE001-GMT.html

I've held my buddies GS SBGE001 and have a MM300 (not GS per say but unreal fit finish like the GS and lume to die for of any watch i've ever owned -- pay close attention to the detail on the indices and hands). While I think it's safe to say we all have a love of Rolex or we wouldn't post here, the top of the line Seiko's will blow your skirt up.

[timelord]

Originally Posted by kkwn98

Look no further than the Credor Spring Drive Sonnerie, which retails for in excess of $400,000. Pink gold, leather strap and no diamonds.

It must be one of a kind or probably the only one ever made or having belonged to a famous person. Kidding aside.

I have always admired the Seiko as a value for money timepiece which could take a lot of punishment. I still have a silver wave 36mm diver's Seiko quartz from 1980 which was given to me for my 16th birthday and has proven to be a great chronometer over the years from all the beating and abuse it received from me from playing football, swimming with it, having lost it in the snow at a skiing resort and it even fell in boling water when boiling spaghetti as the spring bar rusted off. It still keeps good time as I have always changed the seals. The quality of stainless steel must also be very good as it has never pitted. I also changed a battery in it just last month as it had a dead battery for some 10 years in it. Still going and telling accurate time .

[warren G.]

Originally Posted by sierra11b

the top of the line Seiko's will blow your skirt up.

x2222222222222222222222222
Any Grand Seiko time piece is breathtaking. You can spot the quality from a million miles away.

[TerryTibbs]

Spring drive is great and all but what is part availability going to be like in 50 years time?

Citizen Chronomaster also worth a look, if you want to appreciate quality engineering.

[RolexWatcher]

I love Seiko as well and definitely know how good Grand Seiko is but it's so hard to put my mind around it when it comes to cost etc.

It's like the Lexus LFA vs a Ferrari/Lambo.

I know my prejudice will still be with the Ferrari or Lambo even though the LFA is an amazing car (can even be argued that it is a better car vs Ferrari 458/Lambo Gallardo etc).

[George Ab]

Originally Posted by sierra11b

Very true!

TO THE OP: Have you looked at the GS SBGE001 GMT? It edges-out the GMTIIC in specs (72hr PR, +/-15sec MONTH), is the price of a used GMTIIC, and has 200M WR to boot:

http://www.seiyajapan.com/product/S-...GE001-GMT.html

I've held my buddies GS SBGE001 and have a MM300 (not GS per say but unreal fit finish like the GS and lume to die for of any watch i've ever owned -- pay close attention to the detail on the indices and hands). While I think it's safe to say we all have a love of Rolex or we wouldn't post here, the top of the line Seiko's will blow your skirt up.

Since the SBGE001 was mentioned. Here is a review of mine on TRF's Other Watch Review Section: http://www.rolexforums.com/showthrea...hlight=SBGE001.

Spring drive addresses many of the limitations of conventional mechanical movements by replacing the traditional escapement (controls timing function) with a IC controlled electro-mechanical break.
That is a significant difference in it is considered by many as the first major leap since John Harrison's initial development of the watch that used an escapement.

One beauty shot..... lets make it two; note the sapphire (not ceramic) bezel insert; ooh, la, la check out the lume.

[kkwn98]

Originally Posted by timelord

It must be one of a kind or probably the only one ever made or having belonged to a famous person. Kidding aside.

I believe it is a limited production model. That said, sonneries are amongst the most complicated and difficult movements to make, so it's not like they are made in large numbers.