Installation of non-genuine or "aftermarket" parts

[train-time]

There has been a few threads lately regarding the installation of or "customizing" of Rolex watches with non-genuine; or as they're often referred to as, "aftermarket" parts.

Well, it appears that Rolex USA considers the entire watch to be counterfeit if altered with non-genuine parts and they even go so far as to state that it's unlawful to sell a watch altered in this fashion.

Here's a copy of the section pertaining to the addition of non-genuine parts in the Rolex USA service summary for a recently serviced watch that had an "aftermarket" diamond dial added to it before it went to RSC for service.

Thought this was pretty interesting, at least from the Rolex USA perspective....

[SKG]

hahahaha!

id love to tell some pawn brokers about this!

[Jason71]

I like the customization of Rolex watches, but the addition of aftermarket parts?? :thumbsdow

One of the best custom changes I have seen lately is the SubC with the 116619 bezel insert :smokin:

I am not a huge fan of the new ceramics, but I would absolutely own that watch.

[Speed]

I'm with you Jason.

I am also NOT a fan of diamonds on a Rolex - Bezel or otherwise. Really cheapens the look IMO.

[Tools]

Rolex has been telling everybody that for years and they're within their rights to refuse service..

- However, that doesn't make it a true legal standing..

I'm sure that nobody with a NATO, an engraving, PVD coating, or even a diamond bezel or leather strap ever need fear any legal or counterfeit issues with their watch.

It's absolute baloney (trademark infringement, however, is a crime so stay away from replicas)

[rmfnla]

Only Rolex would try to enact its own laws! :rolleyes:

[gqllc]

Rolex says it is "unlawful to sell" but not to possess. I got that official ruling directly from Rolex

[gt3pilot]

Rolex says it is "unlawful to sell" but not to possess. I got that official ruling directly from Rolex

Since when do they start making and enforcing laws ? As long as there is no trademark infringement then you can customize anything you legally own. You can also sell it too. I would like to see a law that states you cant ? I like mine all original, but to each his own.


-Scott B.

[Tools]

Since when do they start making and enforcing laws ? As long as there is no trademark infringement then you can customize anything you legally own. You can also sell it too. I would like to see a law that states you cant ? I like mine all original, but to each his own.


-Scott B.

Exactly... There are no special sales laws that apply to a Rolex that don't apply equally to any other watch, your car, or your toaster.....:thumbsup:

[mrbill2mrbill2]

I am not a lawyer but, I cannot how Rolex could ever enforce the statement you cannot sell a modified Rolex.

:cheers:

[general]

Rolex has been telling everybody that for years and they're within their rights to refuse service..

- However, that doesn't make it a true legal standing..

I'm sure that nobody with a NATO, an engraving, PVD coating, or even a diamond bezel or leather strap ever need fear any legal or counterfeit issues with their watch.

It's absolute baloney (trademark infringement, however, is a crime so stay away from replicas)

I'm with you on this one. Manufacturer can say and do what thay want, but it does not have any legal standing. Rolex can smooch my :bartmoon:

[CashGap]

Only Rolex would try to enact its own laws! :rolleyes:

My goodness. If Rolex claimed that installation of non-Rolex parts will make the watch a chocolate chip cookie, how many would eat it?

Laughable that Rolex would permit publication of this. Hopefully, translation problems are to blame.

[KarlFr]

Same story with all companies, put too many aftermarket pieces in your porsche or too much rum in your coca cola... you're asking for trouble:dude:

[SkyKing31]

I like my watches to remain original .. I still have a problem with Rolex making such statements .. We BOUGHT our Rolex watches not RENTING

[gqllc]

Don't shoot the messenger ! I am just repeating verbatim from Rolex NYC!!

[kareemthedream33]

They are just trying to scare you. As others have said, once you own the watch you can do whatever you want with it short of copyright infringement.

[dbphotos]

As everyone has said, you are free to do what you want with your property, but Rolex is free to say they won't service it. No problem, plenty of good watchmakers that will.

IMHO, Rolex is getting tough on the wrong bunch. Don't piss off your customer base, spend all those efforts going after true counterfeiters. They are the people cheapening the brand.

Rolex needs to get over themselves regarding "customization", as long as it doesn't include true counterfiet items.

[gqllc]

This is very similar to replicas. It is not against the law to own one...just to sell them. When I called Rolex they said of course you can customize your watch. You just can't sell it as such. Again I am sure private party sales are a non issue..I would think they want to stop "custom" shops. They really can't seem to enforce it until you need servicing. They just merely deny the service and you have to go to an independent watch maker.

[sherwin]

I buy a car from toyota, modifying it voids my warranty, but can toyota tell me i cant sell it to another buyer? no.

i would say the same goes for a rolex. you lose your warranty fair enough, but for them to tell you its illegal to onsell to someone else who is aware of the customisation i dont see the issue.

in other words rolex can lick it

[pawnshopkiller]

Timedelay corp fought this battle in court and lost. That is why if you get a dial or any other part from them it will be clearly marked TDC in a visible area.

[Wildwing]

Translated, it means, if you send it to us for service, we're going to replace all non-Rolex parts, and charge you the highest price in the universe for it.

That's why I've said before, find a good watch repairman of your own, and treat your watches as your own. Just be happy with your own decisions.

[springer]

One of the "battles" Time Delay had with Rolex was obtaining parts. Rolex said that they didn't have to sell them their service or repair parts, which was won by Rolex in the suit. Time Delay, located here in Dallas, repairs and services more Rolex watches than any other company in the USA, besides Rolex. (It might even be that Time Delay services more Rolex watches, other than Rolex, in the world - but I can't say that for sure.)

Aftermarket or replacement bezel inserts, dials and other common parts are very common on most Rolexes that are being worn throughout the world. (Many, or most, of the non-trademarked parts used in the manufacture of Rolex watches are not made by Rolex.)

Aftermarket crystals and bezel inserts are very, very common or Rolex watches. Most watchmakers not employed by Rolex have access to Rolex parts. During a service, if a non-Rolex employed watchmaker tells the customer that he can have a replacement bezel insert and sapphire crystal installed during service for $100 or the same "genuine" Rolex parts for $350, most would opt for the replacement or aftermarket parts. These are two of the most common non-Rolex items found on many Rolex watches. There are many fine, accomplished and certified Rolex watchmakers servicing Rolex watches besides the Rolex Service Centers. Once serviced, watches serviced by non-Rolex watchmakers usually come with the same warranty as a RSC repair/service. Lately, the $750 that a few of my friends have paid for a RSC service, vs $300 - $400 from an independent watchmaker, seems rather excessive. In the end, the owner will determine what service or part is appropriate for his particular watch and budget.

Altered dials, i.e. the addition of diamonds, is another area that Rolex will call counterfeit. Even though the dial is genuine, if it ends up at the RSC, they will not repair the watch. The main reason that Rolex will not service these watches is that if a diamond comes loose, damaging the dial and/or hands, Rolex would not be responsible. To limit their losses, Rolex has taken the stand that they will not service their watches that are fitted with altered or aftermarket replacement parts. I fully understand, and agree with their position regarding denial of service to a watch that has an altered dial or parts that could affect the operation of the watch.

My certified Rolex watchmaker worked for the RSC here in Dallas during the late 1970's in to the 1980's. It is interesting talking with him about when he was employed at the RSC. One day we were discussing the number of watches that came through the RSC for repair and he told me that back then, he received $10 for every Rolex that he serviced. We both laughed at that fact, and he went on to tell me that he would service, on the average, five to seven watches per day !!!!

[SS Oyster]

I guess they should toss most jewelry store owners in San Diego Fashion Valley Mall in jail as most of them offer used SS Datejusts (men's and especially ladies) with aftermarket diamond bezels. Cracks me up. Why would anyone pay real money to ruin the value of a perfectly good Rolex?

I guess same reason kids put ironing boards on the back of their "souped up" POS

There has been a few threads lately regarding the installation of or "customizing" of Rolex watches with non-genuine; or as they're often referred to as, "aftermarket" parts.

Well, it appears that Rolex USA considers the entire watch to be counterfeit if altered with non-genuine parts and they even go so far as to state that it's unlawful to sell a watch altered in this fashion.

Here's a copy of the section pertaining to the addition of non-genuine parts in the Rolex USA service summary for a recently serviced watch that had an "aftermarket" diamond dial added to it before it went to RSC for service.

Thought this was pretty interesting, at least from the Rolex USA perspective....

[paddy_crow]

I buy a car from toyota, modifying it voids my warranty,

It doesn't even do that. Toyota has to prove that the modification caused or contributed to the part that broke. For example, if you put aftermarket fog lights on your car and your engine blows up, the engine repair will still fall under warranty. If you drill a hole through the fascia to mount the fog lights and the fascia cracks through the hole, that's another matter.

[JPrince]

If you bought it, and paid for it, you should be able to modify it anyway you want. A Rolex is a Rolex. As long as you dont replace in the inner workings with replacement gears, its yours to do what you want I suppose. If you buy a house, youre allowed to paint the walls right? Its still a house!

[bewithabob]

I have to believe that no one here is a trademark lawyer, and therefore an expert, qualified to provide the facts (myself included).

That being said...I quote the experts in this regard-

"The U.S. Supreme Court said...:

"[T]rademark law, by preventing others from copying a source-identifying mark, 'reduce[s] the customer's cost's of shopping and making purchasing decisions,' for it quickly and easily assures a potential customer that the this item -- the item with this mark -- is made by the same producer as other similarly marked items that he or she liked (or disliked) in the past. At the same time, the law helps assure a producer that it (and not an imitating competitor) will reap the financial, reputation-related rewards associated with a desirable product." Qualitex Co. v. Jacobson Products Co, U.S. Supreme Court (1995)."

Trademark dilution refers to the whittling away of a famous trademark's distinctiveness through unauthorized use. Under federal trademark dilution law, the owner of a "famous" mark is entitled to stop another person's commercial use of its mark that dilutes, blurs or tarnishes its "distinctive quality." Unlike traditional trademark infringement, neither likelihood of confusion, nor competition between the parties' goods is required."

© 1998-2010 The Law Offices of Lloyd J. Jassin. All rights reserved.

Further-
"Trademark law governs the use of trademarks and service marks. Trademarks are a form of intellectual property. The law entitles the owner(s) to exclusive use of the mark in relation to the products or services for which it is registered. The law in most jurisdictions also allows the owner of a registered trademark to prevent unauthorized use of the mark in relation to products or services which are identical or similar to the registered products or services, know as trademark infringement.

Trademark infringement occurs when one party adopts or uses a trademark that is confusingly similar to the prior adopted and used trademark for similar products or services. To prove infringement the mark’s owner(s) must prove that the infringer’s use of the mark has created a likelihood of confusion about the origin of the defendant's goods or services. The confusion created can be that the infringer’s products are the same as that of the owner(s) or that the infringer is somehow associated, affiliated, connected, approved, authorized or sponsored by the owner(s). The necessity of the confusion element has been well established under both federal and state case law.

Trademarks are governed by both state and federal law. State common law originally provided the main source of protection of trademarks, but over time, federal trademark law has assumed much of the ground originally covered by state common law and now provides the main source of trademark protection. The main federal statute is the Trademark Act of 1946, as amended (the Lanham Act) which codified much of the existing common law on trademarks. The Patent and Trademark Office (PTO) is responsible for administering all laws relating to trademarks and patents in the U.S.

Rights to a trademark can be acquired by either being the first to register the mark with the PTO, or by being the first to use the mark in commerce, which provides protection at the state level by statute and/or common law. To obtain the greatest protection for a mark, it is usually advisable to register the mark. A mark which is registered with the PTO should be marked with the ® symbol. Unregistered trademarks should be marked with a “tm”, and unregistered service marks should be marked with an “sm”.

Trademark rights can be lost through improper licensing, assignment, genericity or abandonment. If the use of a trademark is licensed without adequate quality control or supervision by the trademark owner, the trademark will be canceled. And if the rights to a trademark are assigned to another party in gross, without corresponding sale of any assets, the trademark will be canceled. Genericity is when a trademark loses its distinctiveness over time and becomes generic, thereby losing its trademark protection. Trademark rights must be maintained through actual lawful use of the mark for a period of time, which varies, or rights to the mark will cease. In addition, if a mark’s registered owner(s) fail to enforce the registration in the event of infringement, it may also expose the registration to become liable for an application for removal from the register after a certain period of time on the grounds of “non-use”."
©1995-2011 All Rights Reserved HG.org - HGExperts.com


No doubt, this thread will soon be locked.:thinking::chuckle:

[Jan Davis]

Lets put this into perspective:

If someone was to go into Rolex Service with a; fake bracelet with the Rolex crown on it, a fake dial with the Rolex information on it then it would be illegal to own. It would be good then for Rolex Service to bring up the matter to the customer about the issue and then the customer is aware of the situation. The dial and bracelet should be removed and kept by the Rolex Service. The rest of the watch is the customers.

If someone was to go into Rolex Service with a: aftermarket bracelet with no name on it, and a aftermarket dial with no name on it, then it would be legal to own as no laws are broken. Rolex Service could not do anything about it except refuse service.

[Tools]

Trademark Law and replica/counterfeit parts..

Aftermarket parts/customizing a Rolex..

Apples and oranges...

[chicfarmer1]

Ever hear of "no shirt, no shoes, no service?" This is entirely a matter of Rolex service, not a decree on ownership or modding. If my local pizzeria can choose whom to not admit through its fairly grimy glass door, sure as heck Rolex can stipulate what product meets its requirements for repair services.

The legal status of the object is likewise another matter.

So, it's a tangerines-to-apples-to-wildebeest comparison.

[dbphotos]

Trademark Law and replica/counterfeit parts..

Aftermarket parts/customizing a Rolex..

Apples and oranges...


:thumbsup:

[HL65]

I did 5 years of hard time for selling a Sub on a NATO. It wasn't worth it and now I follow their rules to a T!! Prison life is hard living and Rolex now tracking my every move!:chuckle:

[chicfarmer1]

I did 5 years of hard time for selling a Sub on a NATO. It wasn't worth it and now I follow their rules to a T!! Prison life is hard living and Rolex now tracking my every move!:chuckle:

Same story for these newly repentant DLC modders:

[bewithabob]

There has been a few threads lately regarding the installation of or "customizing" of Rolex watches with non-genuine; or as they're often referred to as, "aftermarket" parts.

Well, it appears that Rolex USA considers the entire watch to be counterfeit if altered with non-genuine parts and they even go so far as to state that it's unlawful to sell a watch altered in this fashion.

Here's a copy of the section pertaining to the addition of non-genuine parts in the Rolex USA service summary for a recently serviced watch that had an "aftermarket" diamond dial added to it before it went to RSC for service.

Thought this was pretty interesting, at least from the Rolex USA perspective....

I think their notice is pretty specific. Installing aftermarket dials renders the entire piece counterfeit.

Does anyone know, how insurance companies insure watches that are not recognized by Rolex as authentic? If Rolex deems a watch that has been changed with aftermarket dials as the entire piece is counterfeit, what does the insurance company insure exactly. And how does one get insurance reimbursement?

Has anyone had experience with this?

[bewithabob]

I did 5 years of hard time for selling a Sub on a NATO. It wasn't worth it and now I follow their rules to a T!! Prison life is hard living and Rolex now tracking my every move!:chuckle:

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Omega 1120]

Here's a court case that Rolex won and prevented some dude from selling Rolex's that he had installed aftermarket parts on. The judgement is at section number 37, but the whole thing is interesting, especially when the dude switched movements on an undercover Rolex investigators watch (see section number 16 :rofl:)


http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F3/158/816/544838/

[rmfnla]

That deals with someone selling modified watches, not someone modifying their personal Rolex.

My replacing the fluted bezel on my DJ with a smooth one does not compete with Rolex, it just deprives them of the possiblity that I will buy a whole new watch because I want a different look.

The new bezel is genuine Rolex so I have done nothing to compromise the integrity of the watch, but that's not their real concern.

[conrail]

Thats nonsense on Rolex' part - it doesn't render the watch a counterfeit. It is certainly a no-no to offer the watch as a 100% genuine Rolex (which is, after all, all Rolex the company deals in) if you've got after-market parts. But you'll well within your rights to do what you please with it, sell it or whatever!

[RolexWatcher]

Here's a court case that Rolex won and prevented some dude from selling Rolex's that he had installed aftermarket parts on. The judgement is at section number 37, but the whole thing is interesting, especially when the dude switched movements on an undercover Rolex investigators watch (see section number 16 :rofl:)


http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F3/158/816/544838/

I think the issue in the case was that the watch made by the dude could be confused by a watch maded by Rolex. I.e. it wasn't clear there were aftermarket stuff on the watch and the watch is different to a Rolex.

I think Rolex is just trying to instill fear in people which is stupid on their part.

[poppyoua12]

When you get a watch serviced by Rolex AD do they have to use genuine Rolex parts under their contract with Rolex or can they use aftermarket parts.If they use aftermarket do they have to tell you.

[slcbbrown]

I think their notice is pretty specific. Installing aftermarket dials renders the entire piece counterfeit.

Does anyone know, how insurance companies insure watches that are not recognized by Rolex as authentic? If Rolex deems a watch that has been changed with aftermarket dials as the entire piece is counterfeit, what does the insurance company insure exactly. And how does one get insurance reimbursement?

Has anyone had experience with this?

However, what you and the insurance company decide that you are insuring is what they will insure. If you want specific value for an item, as opposed to "household items" lost in a flood or fire, you'll probably have to agree to a value or system for defining the value.

As far as Rolex deciding the value, I don't see that they have much to add.

[pawnshopkiller]

People just keep your original parts if you install something aftermarket in case you ever have to send it to Rolex. This is not a big deal to me. If you ever sell the watch offer the original parts with it or even offer to keep the aftermarket parts and put it back all genuine. I don't know if you guys know this or not but some aftermarket parts are quite sought after and valuable although if a member here has a aftermarket part on their watch they probably won't admit it. I for one don't mind them if they fit correct and look good. I am in no way promoting aftermarket parts, of course we all wish we could pay the premium Rolex charges when our bracelets wear out but a lot of people can't or won't afford it and for the price Rolex charges for a diamond bezel you could buy another watch.http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z415/pawnshopkiller/IMG_0587.jpg

[SubKing]

rolex has been telling everybody that for years and they're within their rights to refuse service..

- however, that doesn't make it a true legal standing..

I'm sure that nobody with a nato, an engraving, pvd coating, or even a diamond bezel or leather strap ever need fear any legal or counterfeit issues with their watch.

It's absolute baloney (trademark infringement, however, is a crime so stay away from replicas)

+1

[Bdevenney]

I can see rolexes point that having excess parts around the more likely a counterfeiter get that part to copy or use in a fake watch. This way they nip it in the bud, unfortunately we who would consider modding our legit watches suffer

[Tools]

Here's a court case that Rolex won and prevented some dude from selling Rolex's that he had installed aftermarket parts on. The judgement is at section number 37, but the whole thing is interesting, especially when the dude switched movements on an undercover Rolex investigators watch (see section number 16 :rofl:)


http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F3/158/816/544838/

Rolex did not "win" this case.. You must read further to find what the courts enjoined and that was the Company using generic parts with a Rolex trademark.. Indeed, the courts found against Rolex, and that a modified/customised Rolex can be sold as long as their was disclosure and it was not advertised using the Trademarked Rolex Logo or as authentic Rolex parts or sold with fake Rolex paperwork. (see sections 39 through 41)

[pawnshopkiller]

This may be off topic but I just had a couple new crystals installed on a few watches per my AD and was surprised to see that the crystals had crowns etched at the six o'clock. I wouldn't think that Rolex would supply these new crystals to a watch that is say from the 90's and didn't come with a crystal like this from the factory. I know this is off topic but aftermarket crystals sure don't have the crown.... and I didn't think this warranted a new thread. Does it?

[pawnshopkiller]

I guess couple and a few doesn't make sense. Two, yes Two watches not a few.

[Tools]

All authentic Rolex sapphire crytals have the etching.. Doesn't matter what year they are going on..:cheers:

[pawnshopkiller]

Rolex did not "win" this case.. You must read further to find what the courts enjoined and that was the Company using generic parts with a Rolex trademark.. Indeed, the courts found against Rolex, and that a modified/customised Rolex can be sold as long as their was disclosure and it was not advertised using the Trademarked Rolex Logo or as authentic Rolex parts or sold with fake Rolex paperwork. (see sections 39 through 41)

Hey Tools, what if a second hand dealer put a large Crown or some other Rolex advertisement in their window? Would this be considered using the Trademark? or just a novelty?

[Tools]

Hey Tools, what if a second hand dealer put a large Crown or some other Rolex advertisement in their window? Would this be considered using the Trademark? or just a novelty?

I'm not a Trademark lawyer, but the cases I have seen, the litmus test is if a consumer could reasonably be confused by the advertising.. In the case cited, the Seller did use close facsimiles of the Trademark Logo and even copied Rolex tradmarked warranties... However, the stampings they used on some generic parts were far enough away from the Trademark that they could be allowed..

So, if a Seller used the Rolex Trademark, and it made buyers reasonably think that the merchant was affiliated with Rolex, it would be an infringement.. But, if they just used it as an advertisement and made it clear that Rolex was a trademark and they only dealt in used, non-affiliated, Rolex stuff they could win in court.. It does seem though that Rolex is not afraid to take a case to court even if they do lose in the end...

[Alcan]

This may be off topic but I just had a couple new crystals installed on a few watches per my AD and was surprised to see that the crystals had crowns etched at the six o'clock.

Rolex replacement crystals have had the etched coronet for several years, with S included to denote service replacement. My N serial Sub came back from the Toronto RSC with one 3 or 4 years ago.

Not sure whose pic this was, probably Jocke's.