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yessir69
27 July 2017, 05:24 AM
Our friend the Watch Snob wrote an interesting article on Patek.

http://www.askmen.com/fashion/mens-watches_700/746_patek-philippe-watches.html

There have been some scattered criticisms on this forum regarding quality control, service time, and whether some of the newer models are just a money grab. Having owned four Pateks, I agree with a lot of what he says. It's not a brand I'm interested in any more because of some (not all) of the points raised in this article.

What do you guys think?

:cheers:

tavv160
27 July 2017, 06:01 AM
Questioning Patek's reputation is a bit far for me, but I have to agree on the point of the Pilot Calatrava. It is one of the most uninspiring watches I have seen for a long time, something I would expect to roll out of the Longines or Baume & Mercier factory, not PP. Luckily only 600 of them will be made.

Also, not a fan of the increased size on the platinum Nautilus chrono & blue Aquanaut. But then again, they are a company and must make money by selling what consumers are willing to pay for. I guess there is a good market for larger size watches.

lapince
27 July 2017, 06:14 AM
Pretty happy with my 3 simple sport models, 5711/12, 5167R, I think they have an incredible selection of different types to please anyone. About prices yes they have hugely raised prices, someone tell me if I am wrong but remember the 3712 being launched in 2005 for 13-15k. Not all their watches keep their value as we have seen them n a few models, 5960p grey and 1A being the 2 in my mind, but you can't get it all right. For the 40th editions they were obliged under public opinions and expectations on forums to do something, money grab not sure. Are they perfect? No, QC and service have serious defects compared to other brands, but overall I still think it's a fantastic brand.

Socal to az
27 July 2017, 07:16 AM
Interesting article. Everything they attribute as problems of patek - I mean look at the other manufacturers. AP for example- I sold all mine. Too many issues. And talk about a money grab- who wants a limited edition Arnold or a Shaq.

Despite their issues, Patek still reigns supreme. i especially love the trend towards more 42mm watches. Good on them for adding a modern element to some of their pieces.

HL65
27 July 2017, 07:30 AM
Interesting article. Everything they attribute as problems of patek - I mean look at the other manufacturers. AP for example- I sold all mine. Too many issues. And talk about a money grab- who wants a limited edition Arnold or a Shaq.

Despite their issues, Patek still reigns supreme. i especially love the trend towards more 42mm watches. Good on them for adding a modern element to some of their pieces.

I've owned roughly 20 AP's over last 15 years and never had an issue with any of mine. Also APSC blows Patek service away as well as any other manufacturer I know of. I sent my Patek 3970 in for service and got it back 9 months later. AP 3 weeks or so for service. I have had multiple issues with Patek from date sticking on 324 movement to scratch on dial. Sent watches back to fix under warranty and got them back 4 months later. Sure Patek makes great watches and I enjoy them but they have some work to do with QC and service and nobody can argue that.

martinr
27 July 2017, 07:45 AM
There is also a new interview with Thierry on Timezone and he makes the point that Patek depends on their retail network and AD's and isn't considering going the boutique route, which is how it ought to be in my opinion. So that isn't a money grab. Also, I don't think larger watches are replacing the smaller ones, they're additional so if you hate the new Aquanaut you can still get the old one for example. The Pilot watch looks bad in most pictures but "luckily only 600..." depends on your point of view. If you want one and can't get one it's bad, have one it's good, don't like it then it shouldn't matter if there are 600 or six thousand. Quality control should be better and service time also.

tyler1980
27 July 2017, 08:06 AM
Well, i just got my first Patek this week, so if they are terrible now its probably my fault.

I thought about buying a Hublot about 10 years ago... and just by thinking about it, look at what happened to that brands reputation.

Sorry

Hollister
27 July 2017, 08:07 AM
My 5146G seems to have tanked. I didn't buy it as an investment, watches aren't that, but a large part of its appeal was that it would hold its value. It hasn't.

I don't believe I'll ever buy another PP, or at least certainly not a new one.

Socal to az
27 July 2017, 08:10 AM
I've owned roughly 20 AP's over last 15 years and never had an issue with any of mine. Also APSC blows Patek service away as well as any other manufacturer I know of. I sent my Patek 3970 in for service and got it back 9 months later. AP 3 weeks or so for service. I have had multiple issues with Patek from date sticking on 324 movement to scratch on dial. Sent watches back to fix under warranty and got them back 4 months later. Sure Patek makes great watches and I enjoy them but they have some work to do with QC and service and nobody can argue that.

I had a Grand Prix, safari and bumblebee.
All had some issues.

I like ap but like patek better.

Tony64
27 July 2017, 08:11 AM
I think Patek took a wrong turn when Thierry took the reins, and the glory days seem more distant with each new release.

My opinion, of course, others probably will disagree.

:cheers:

Hollister
27 July 2017, 08:15 AM
I think Patek took a wrong turn when Thierry took the reins, and the glory days seem more distant with each new release.

My opinion, of course, others probably will disagree.

:cheers:

Yes, I agree. The watches are now following fashion rather than defining style - larger cases, larger fonts on the dial, and dare I say it, outright bling.

Socal to az
27 July 2017, 08:59 AM
Which is why every new piece has a wait list

10 year wait for 5524.
People salivating for the "ugly and simple" 5522
Advanced Research selling for double MSRP
Impossible to find 5711

Yeah- they are sure doing crappy and making poor decisions.

yoast
27 July 2017, 09:11 AM
I believe Patek needs to modernize a bit faster with more inspiring designs than a bland looking time only pilots watch. The blue aqua is a step in the right direction imo.
Also, I think without the nautilus line, the brand probably wouldn't survive.

Socal to az
27 July 2017, 09:27 AM
Also, I think without the nautilus line, the brand probably wouldn't survive.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

ufboy73
27 July 2017, 10:32 AM
Which is why every new piece has a wait list

10 year wait for 5524.
People salivating for the "ugly and simple" 5522
Advanced Research selling for double MSRP
Impossible to find 5711

Yeah- they are sure doing crappy and making poor decisions.

to be fair, if you ration supply there will be waiting lists...

and i would imagine a brand as storied as patek could live off of good will for quite some time - doesnt mean the brand is healthy or heading in the right direction....that seemed to be the whole point of the article.

Socal to az
27 July 2017, 10:34 AM
to be fair, if you ration supply there will be waiting lists...

and i would imagine a brand as storied as patek could live off of good will for quite some time - doesnt mean the brand is healthy or heading in the right direction....that seemed to be the whole point of the article.

The people who wish for the old days of 33mm men's watches no doubt hate the direction patek is going. Those of us that prefer modern sizes and designs appreciate the addition of larger 42mm watches to the already plentiful supply of their regular smaller traditional pieces.

texex91
27 July 2017, 10:35 AM
AP and PP have issues...they are watches.

The challenge with PP comes with the service times (as we know).

Vipes
27 July 2017, 10:56 AM
I believe Patek needs to modernize a bit faster with more inspiring designs than a bland looking time only pilots watch. The blue aqua is a step in the right direction imo.
Also, I think without the nautilus line, the brand probably wouldn't survive.

:thinking: Patek has done pretty well before the Nautilus came along.

jon_jon
27 July 2017, 11:42 AM
The article has several valid points, both praises for and criticisms of Patek Philippe.

Watch collectors/buyers today are very different from those from a generation ago. Just as the generation of Philippe Stern will slowly diminish, the generation of Thierry Stern will continue to grow. Patek is not abandoning the traditional Calatravas and the complications that they have always been known for. And they are not making the Nautilus their main focus either. Patek has and always will be known for their complicated watches. However their production numbers over the past 10 years has skyrocketed and this has been both a blessing and a curse. People don't have to wait to get their non-Nautilus watches. However with a surplus of new watch supply, watch prices struggle in the secondary market. And unless they can train a whole new group of watchmakers to service these watches, wait time for servicing will get longer. The use of silicium components is a way to improve watch accuracy and to potentially decrease the need for frequent servicing.

So what is the solution? Will restricting supply make things better? Instead of 60,000 pieces a year, what if they went back to only 30,000 pieces a year? What if they changed their production so that half of their watches are from the Nautilus line? No matter what they do, people will be unhappy, whether they are existing clients or potentially new clients. People want instant gratification and if they can't get the 5711/1A, they will cross shop and get an AP 15400. If Patek flooded the market with tons of 5711/1A's, all the current owners will be upset that the market price of the watch has tanked to under $20K USD.

People want exclusivity in the luxury market and Patek is definitely not like Rolex in that pretty much anyone can purchase a Rolex with a 24 month interest free financing. Patek wants consumers to understand the brand and what they produce and want the watch because it is special and not because everyone at their country club wears one. I am not criticizing Rolex as they are one of the most respected watch brands in the world, but they are not a luxury brand in the traditional sense and have become a more attainable brand for the middle class.

I still have a lot of respect for Patek Philippe, even more so after touring their factory and seeing the work they do behind the scene. But there will always be unhappy customers.

In comparing AP vs PP service times, does AP make perpetual calendar chronographs? If they do, what is the typical service time for an AP PCC?

rebel_1
27 July 2017, 11:56 AM
The article has several valid points, both praises for and criticisms of Patek Philippe.

Watch collectors/buyers today are very different from those from a generation ago. Just as the generation of Philippe Stern will slowly diminish, the generation of Thierry Stern will continue to grow. Patek is not abandoning the traditional Calatravas and the complications that they have always been known for. And they are not making the Nautilus their main focus either. Patek has and always will be known for their complicated watches. However their production numbers over the past 10 years has skyrocketed and this has been both a blessing and a curse. People don't have to wait to get their non-Nautilus watches. However with a surplus of new watch supply, watch prices struggle in the secondary market. And unless they can train a whole new group of watchmakers to service these watches, wait time for servicing will get longer. The use of silicium components is a way to improve watch accuracy and to potentially decrease the need for frequent servicing.

So what is the solution? Will restricting supply make things better? Instead of 60,000 pieces a year, what if they went back to only 30,000 pieces a year? What if they changed their production so that half of their watches are from the Nautilus line? No matter what they do, people will be unhappy, whether they are existing clients or potentially new clients. People want instant gratification and if they can't get the 5711/1A, they will cross shop and get an AP 15400. If Patek flooded the market with tons of 5711/1A's, all the current owners will be upset that the market price of the watch has tanked to under $20K USD.

People want exclusivity in the luxury market and Patek is definitely not like Rolex in that pretty much anyone can purchase a Rolex with a 24 month interest free financing. Patek wants consumers to understand the brand and what they produce and want the watch because it is special and not because everyone at their country club wears one. I am not criticizing Rolex as they are one of the most respected watch brands in the world, but they are not a luxury brand in the traditional sense and have become a more attainable brand for the middle class.

I still have a lot of respect for Patek Philippe, even more so after touring their factory and seeing the work they do behind the scene. But there will always be unhappy customers.

In comparing AP vs PP service times, does AP make perpetual calendar chronographs? If they do, what is the typical service time for an AP PCC?

Nicely said.

Tony64
27 July 2017, 12:05 PM
Which is why every new piece has a wait list

10 year wait for 5524.
People salivating for the "ugly and simple" 5522
Advanced Research selling for double MSRP
Impossible to find 5711

to be fair, if you ration supply there will be waiting lists...

In some countries you wait in line for toilet paper...

ufboy has it right, limiting supply to create a waitlist doesn't negate any of the criticism. It's just simple manipulation of supply less than demand. Ask yourself, if every AD had a blue nautilus for the asking, and a stainless ceramic Daytona to boot, would there be the same demand? Would there be the same furor? And markup? Fuggedaboutit. Would you even pay MSRP or would you expect your usual discount?

texasmade
27 July 2017, 12:15 PM
In comparing AP vs PP service times, does AP make perpetual calendar chronographs? If they do, what is the typical service time for an AP PCC?

AP does with their grand complication RO. No idea what the service time is but I read AP says all watches in their core collection will be serviced in 21 days under warranty and 42 days if out of warranty. I don't know if a GC watch would qualify as a core collection though.

jon_jon
27 July 2017, 12:21 PM
AP does with their grand complication RO. No idea what the service time is but I read somewhere that AP guarantees all watches will be serviced in 4-5 weeks or something like that.

That is quite a guarantee if true. I can see turnaround time of 4-5 weeks for a simple time and date watch. However I am curious what the actual turnaround time for AP to service their chronographs, perpetual calendars and PCCs.

Socal to az
27 July 2017, 12:22 PM
In some countries you wait in line for toilet paper...

ufboy has it right, limiting supply to create a waitlist doesn't negate any of the criticism. It's just simple manipulation of supply less than demand. Ask yourself, if every AD had a blue nautilus for the asking, and a stainless ceramic Daytona to boot, would there be the same demand? Would there be the same furor? And markup? Fuggedaboutit. Would you even pay MSRP or would you expect your usual discount?

Ferrari limits supply to create demand.

Ever try to buy a Birkin from Hermes for your wife/girlfriend? Limited supply to create demand.

Porsche GTxxx try buying one. Limited supply to create demand.

It's called smart business. Patek isn't the only one that does this.

Socal to az
27 July 2017, 12:23 PM
That is quite a guarantee if true. I can see turnaround time of 4-5 weeks for a simple time and date watch. However I am curious what the actual turnaround time for AP to service their chronographs, perpetual calendars and PCCs.

My bumblebee was serviced twice for the same problem. So much for quick turnaround.

Tony64
27 July 2017, 12:42 PM
Ferrari limits supply to create demand.

Ever try to buy a Birkin from Hermes for your wife/girlfriend? Limited supply to create demand.

Porsche GTxxx try buying one. Limited supply to create demand.

It's called smart business. Patek isn't the only one that does this.

So at least we agree that the demand is artificial?

Socal to az
27 July 2017, 12:44 PM
So at least we agree that the demand is artificial?

Demand is demand.

If people are actually buying the watches, how is that artificial? I mean do they pay for these watches with artificial money? Is Patek taking fake IOUs and then going to bill these people later when everyone agrees on the real value and demand according to you?

Patek has grown, demand has grown, profits have grown.

Are they perfect? Absolutely not. But they are still the premier watchmaker out there.

KarlS
27 July 2017, 12:49 PM
To be frank PP has lots of issues. I think I don't have a smallish collection and never had a problem with Patek nor Rolex. Other brands yes. I think my Vacheron took 10 months to service. Not detracting from some of the comments I really don't regard "serious journalism" to include things like "what's your favourite hipster watch?"....

Tony64
27 July 2017, 12:55 PM
Ferrari limits supply to create demand.

Ever try to buy a Birkin from Hermes for your wife/girlfriend? Limited supply to create demand.

Porsche GTxxx try buying one. Limited supply to create demand.

It's called smart business. Patek isn't the only one that does this.

Demand is demand.

If people are actually buying the watches, how is that artificial? I mean do they pay for these watches with artificial money? Is Patek taking fake IOUs and then going to bill these people later when everyone agrees on the real value and demand according to you?

Patek has grown, demand has grown, profits have grown.

Are they perfect? Absolutely not. But they are still the premier watchmaker out there.

I'm not disagreeing. I'm just pointing out that in each example that you gave above you say that "limited supply creates demand".

If you "create" demand then that's artificial, by my definition at least. Not saying it's not a good business model. I simply believe that genuine demand is quality driven, not supply driven.

I respect that you may feel differently.

:cheers:

texasmade
27 July 2017, 01:15 PM
That is quite a guarantee if true. I can see turnaround time of 4-5 weeks for a simple time and date watch. However I am curious what the actual turnaround time for AP to service their chronographs, perpetual calendars and PCCs.

I'm pretty sure the chronos qualify as core collection since AP sales a lot of chronos in the RO and ROO line. PC and PCC's is another story though.

josephvman
27 July 2017, 01:35 PM
I've haven't had the pleasure of sending off my only Patek, a lowly Aquanaut, for service yet, but there is no reason any modern watch should take many months for basic required maintenance. Any manufacturer who thinks this is acceptable just doesn't have much regard for those who've bought their product. If the Pilot watch didn't have PP on the dial would anyone here really find it very interesting from a styling perspective?

codecow
27 July 2017, 01:46 PM
I'm never going to talk bad about Patek. I'm ready for my pilot!

incontrol
27 July 2017, 02:45 PM
I have fallen head over heels for my Patek watches. I have 5 and have had no issues to date. Every company has issues. I am also waiting for a 5522 and hope I get one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hamish
27 July 2017, 07:26 PM
I own many brands
For me Patek is king
I think Thierry is doing a good job
Lots of innovation, new products and I think that he has released some very good grand complications.
Patek like many brands is aspirational and I don't think that this will change.
In terms of business if you compare Patek to Richemont etc I think you will find that they are doing just fine.

Hamish
27 July 2017, 07:27 PM
PS I own quite a few Patek's and I have never had an issue

RussW
27 July 2017, 09:03 PM
When you're top of the pile you're always going to attract some criticism. I'm very happy with Patek's direction, and if they hadn't moved with the times I wouldn't be a Patek customer.

There are a lot of really great brands out there, so if Patek isn't for you, you are spoilt for choice.

Borsika
27 July 2017, 09:06 PM
I had an issue with a 5960/1A. Crown got stuck and was not possible to wind manually. It was under warranty. I left it with local AD and it came back in 2.5 months (Europe). I think it is fair, cant complain.

1William
27 July 2017, 09:07 PM
I read the article and agree with several points. I have never owned a PP but have admired the brand from afar. I have never owned a VC or other high end watch as much for what I am, but the issues that are around with ownership of such fine watches. I refuse to get into line for a watch that is as uninspired as the new Pilot or the 5711. I would never pay a premium for these items and I hate limited production runs. I learned a lesson from my Range Rover ownership experience a few years ago. I had always admired the brand. Loved the styling and capabilities of the vehicle. I did my research and everything told me to stay away but I bought it anyway. Everything I had read in the reviews was true. Issues with service on a 100K vehicle that was under warranty. Limited dealer network and part supply. In the end I refused to have so much tied up in an item that I had these issues with. To me, PP is the same story and I don't need to think that I am the exception to QC and service issues. I will continue to admire PP from afar and see another generation run the company and reputation into the ground. I know this is strong but we will see. I think the world has changed and there is only so much fans will tolerate.

Exploradori
27 July 2017, 09:09 PM
I think Patek took a wrong turn when Thierry took the reins, and the glory days seem more distant with each new release.



My opinion, of course, others probably will disagree.



:cheers:



I completely agree. Patek is definitely not what it was before. Looking at design, QC, service time, and the nefarious money-grab they want to pull with their pricing, I have decided my next watch from the holy trinity will be an AP or VC.

The Thierry era is not great. I was even underwhelmed with this interview to Patek's creative director (Thierry's wife):

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/sandrine-stern-patek-philippe-creative-director-interview

Russell996
27 July 2017, 09:35 PM
I read the article and agree with several points. I have never owned a PP but have admired the brand from afar. I have never owned a VC or other high end watch as much for what I am, but the issues that are around with ownership of such fine watches. I refuse to get into line for a watch that is as uninspired as the new Pilot or the 5711. I would never pay a premium for these items and I hate limited production runs. I learned a lesson from my Range Rover ownership experience a few years ago. I had always admired the brand. Loved the styling and capabilities of the vehicle. I did my research and everything told me to stay away but I bought it anyway. Everything I had read in the reviews was true. Issues with service on a 100K vehicle that was under warranty. Limited dealer network and part supply. In the end I refused to have so much tied up in an item that I had these issues with. To me, PP is the same story and I don't need to think that I am the exception to QC and service issues. I will continue to admire PP from afar and see another generation run the company and reputation into the ground. I know this is strong but we will see. I think the world has changed and there is only so much fans will tolerate.

You are correct in one aspect, it is a strong view to have with no personal brand experience. :dummy:

PJ S
27 July 2017, 09:53 PM
The Thierry era is not great. I was even underwhelmed with this interview to Patek's creative director (Thierry's wife):

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/sandrine-stern-patek-philippe-creative-director-interview

Underwhelmed is putting it mildly – the woman doesn’t know the difference between a rose, and a sunflower, a daisy, and whatever that is supposed to be (at 1 o’clock).
She was quick to point out how she transitioned from the commerce side to the creative side…she said, “I do”, and he said, “you’ll do”.

Murcielagoboy2
27 July 2017, 10:20 PM
There's so much I could write here and so much I already have.

- PP are still great. But NOT in comparison to themselves some years ago.

- TS has over produced enormously since he took over and that has hurt every part of the ownership experience; residuals, quality, exclusivity, after sales service, more grey imports/channels.

- IMO he's fundamentally NOT cared about his collectors and many are walking away. That's self-evident ; Residuals on 90% of models are dreadful in comparison to previous years. Can you imagine the 5970 sitting with dealers for months at a discount to list but it's true for their 5270 today.

- The ONLY good thing he's done is limit Nautilus production otherwise that would rapidly go the way of the AP ROO and PP would become a one-product company and it's already the only product PP is currently known for.

- 42mm sizes are great - people are getting bigger. But is the new large sizing down to this or the fad for bling? Would love to see how many people who want a larger size choose rose or yellow gold for their PP's, HA - bet you there's a high correlation. And bling is the antithesis of PP's values. Their anniversary Nautilus chrono was IMO an oversized abomination - and they've ruined the 5170p with diamonds. In these "Instabling" times, it's not surprise that the most overtly-flash Patek - the Nautilus - is in insatiable demand.

- They're recycling the same movements in ever bigger cases causing strange congested dials - anyone seen the MR which is a replacement to the 5074? It looks like a FAKE PP. And this is happening across the board from the Calatrava to the GC's.

I could go on and on and on.
TS needs to cut production, make people wait and get his house in order.
OR NOT,
Just continue to cut corners and make money (for a while... until his brand Equity is wiped out).

christianj
27 July 2017, 10:22 PM
I've haven't had the pleasure of sending off my only Patek, a lowly Aquanaut, for service yet, but there is no reason any modern watch should take many months for basic required maintenance. Any manufacturer who thinks this is acceptable just doesn't have much regard for those who've bought their product.

+1! I own a 5167 and a 5711 and luckily there has not been a need for a service on either watch but just reading about the nightmare wait times has me dreading the day they do need to go in.

As a side note, I think it is funny that in my experience I have hands down the best Customer Service in years of owning different watches from a company that tend to get bashed non-stop of TRF....Hublot! Not only did I get an extended warranty on my watch because their CEO was offering them to owners on another watch forum but when I needed a service it was done quickly, correct and with hands down the best communication I have ever had with a company. (other than Nespresso which is another story) Say what you will about Hublot but they engage with their customers and will make sure you are a satisfied customer.

conkers
27 July 2017, 10:27 PM
Interesting contrast in views. They do some things very well and other things less well. In fact much like any other company on the planet! I personally don't covet them any more but that is nothing to do with the watches. Some of their watches are wonderful some less so.

Murcielagoboy2
27 July 2017, 10:30 PM
! I personally don't covet them any more but that is nothing to do with the watches.

Why?

Conkers, can you elaborate on this please.

KarlS
27 July 2017, 10:33 PM
I have hope for this thread.... I think the last one was over 10 pages long of the same old rehash!!!! I think we may exceed the 10 pages. As for choice PP deliberately ensure a wide range of models (over 200) so that someone could find something they would like in their collection. So yes some models you will like and some you won't. I don't like the 5960A but others will....so what?! I don't think they should do Quartz but they churn 10 000 out a year to cater to those who would like a PP, are not fussed about mechanical movements and prefer that entry point! The other choice is to buy Panerei which to me is the same watch repeated over and over with a different dial!!! As for direction, my comments are known. If PP wasn't going this routeI wouldn't be an owner. I don't want a watch that looks like what my grandfather wore!!! Watches aren't intended to be investments so never sure why we think a new watch shouldn't depreciate like a new car driving off the forecourt!! In fact I pretty much made money on my PP's but lost on VC, Rolex and UN...of course it's a commercial business and they aren't in this for charity. Movement sizes....heard this so often....remind me of the case / movement proportions of the iconic 5070 or better still the ROO Diver....anyway there is no right or wrong answer to this and if this loses its legs we can start "are there any other brands superior to PP thread" sigh

KarlS
27 July 2017, 10:36 PM
Interesting contrast in views. They do some things very well and other things less well. In fact much like any other company on the planet! I personally don't covet them any more but that is nothing to do with the watches. Some of their watches are wonderful some less so.

You still need a 5270 no chin blue ....

dmacintyre
27 July 2017, 10:42 PM
Having attended the superb NY Exhibition I have to say I feel PP's best days are currently behind it.

Creatively, from an aesthetic perspective, there were countless historic watches which very much appealed to me. In the current / recent collection very little. The modern special exhibition pieces were nice but largely superficially decorative and not horologically interesting to me. It feels like they don't really know what direction they are headed and many recent creations show a lack of good taste - the antithesis of what PP historically stood for. The 5522 could have been a beautiful watch but simply making it larger doesn't automatically make it contemporary or desirable and their somewhat cynical demand creation by throttling supply of that and their other stainless pieces is off putting.

I came close to a Nautilus or Aquanaut last year but the example I saw straight out of the box had a sticky date and I didn't fancy waiting months to get my brand new watch repaired. I had several questions for PP customer service and am still waiting on a response over a year later.

I really want to like the current PP but between the uninspiring design, poor after sales service and occasional questionable quality issues I'm struggling to give them my money. When you charge top dollar you have to back it up. I also feel the owners have an attitude problem (PP staff at the Exhibition were conversely excellent). Maybe the NY Exhibition is an attempt to reverse opinions such as mine. Maybe it was a necessary marketing exercise.

I still love the brand but more for what it was than what it is. I think PP just needs a metaphorical rocket up their arse in several departments and they will be back on top. Problem is it has to come from the very people who are probably responsible for the stagnation.

texex91
27 July 2017, 10:59 PM
I have nothing against PP. Owned several, and I think their watches are fine, the brand is well known and I've never had a service issue with them (but then again I did not own them long enough).

My challenge with PP is they are not innovative. Most of their watches IMHO do look like my grandfathers (I know gasp, but it's true). I think it's the nature of round dress watches. Are there plenty of other PP's that don't--you bet. 5524, 5905 (because bigger), Nauts (but I don't consider those true sports watches anyways) and a few others. The rest really are just rehashing of similar looking watches and materials.

NOW, is that a bad thing. Obviously not for many PP loyalists who prefer dress(ier) watches.

Patek just like any brand has pros and cons. If I loved dress watches, I'd be all over Patek (and ALS). Will that keep me from buying another Patek--heck no. I'd buy another in heartbeat if it sang to me (5522 cough and blue Aqua, even though already losing interest in it).

Some here say, those that have never owned a PP have no room to talk. While I have, I actually think it's extremely important to hear feedback from those wanting to buy into the Patek brand, but will not for whatever reason. How will the company get better if they don't know why people are not entering the brand?

Anyways, I believe PP is just fine, but what do I know.

Vipes
27 July 2017, 11:04 PM
I own many brands
For me Patek is king
I think Thierry is doing a good job
Lots of innovation, new products and I think that he has released some very good grand complications.
Patek like many brands is aspirational and I don't think that this will change.
In terms of business if you compare Patek to Richemont etc I think you will find that they are doing just fine.

Good point about Richemont. I like that Patek is not considering going the boutique route and that they value their relationship with their ADs.

Tony64
27 July 2017, 11:13 PM
I have hope for this thread....

I feel strongly that the quality of their brown shipping boxes has significantly deteriorated.

KarlS
27 July 2017, 11:26 PM
I feel strongly that the quality of their brown shipping boxes has significantly deteriorated.

and thus cancelled it....however don't panic I see on a true WIS / Purist forum the big concern has moved onto the brown cardboard outer box that protects the mohagony box may be on the chopping box as well!!!! I shudder where they will cut corners next!!!

PJ S
27 July 2017, 11:44 PM
… we can start "are there any other brands superior to PP thread"

You should know by now, Karl, the sequel is never as good as the original. https://www.rolexforums.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

ap1
27 July 2017, 11:46 PM
If they cut the oversized microfiber I'm out:chuckle:

conkers
28 July 2017, 12:02 AM
Why?

Conkers, can you elaborate on this please.

No need to rake over old coals. My view of what looking after customers means is just different to theirs so I voted with my feet.

KarlS
28 July 2017, 12:14 AM
You should know by now, Karl, the sequel is never as good as the original. https://www.rolexforums.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Sadly you are correct but we can try......do you know that Dufour wears a Datograph....proof that Lange is better than PP?

PJ S
28 July 2017, 01:11 AM
^
Wow! Does he? I didn’t know that! Conclusive proof indeed.
Did you know that Chopard polish their bevels (or was it balls?) better?

Tony64
28 July 2017, 01:26 AM
I hear Rolex is made by hand and each one takes a year to complete.

Socal to az
28 July 2017, 01:37 AM
Monks in the alps polish every single AP by rubbing watches against the balls of a yak. Its true. I read that on the internet!

Exploradori
28 July 2017, 02:41 AM
Sadly you are correct but we can try......do you know that Dufour wears a Datograph....proof that Lange is better than PP?



And do you know that Roger Smith wears an Exp I 214270 Mk1 ?

Tay821
28 July 2017, 02:49 AM
Monks in the alps polish every single AP by rubbing watches against the balls of a yak. Its true. I read that on the internet!

Best one yet:rofl::rofl::rofl:

KarlS
28 July 2017, 02:52 AM
And do you know that Roger Smith wears an Exp I 214270 Mk1 ?

You mean the one his wife gave him?

lapince
28 July 2017, 03:02 AM
You are correct in one aspect, it is a strong view to have with no personal brand experience. :dummy:

Kind of agree Russell, about the uninspired Nautilus design, I didn't like it for many years, then it got to me, my 2 uninspired Nautilus and my uninspired Aquanaut are a pleasure to wear, maybe it will get to him too. If iconic and 40 years old is uninspired I guess I must have it wrong watvh wise...

Interesting contrast in views. They do some things very well and other things less well. In fact much like any other company on the planet! I personally don't covet them any more but that is nothing to do with the watches. Some of their watches are wonderful some less so.

The problem for me is that I love their cheap models, or extremely expensive ones, had I the means I would get a minute repeater with PC, love the new one, 5316p I think, but I think they make great watches, more than 200 in the catalogue? Who else has that? From what I know no one. About value retention sure I might take a small bath selling my 5167R, but don't intend to, perfect sporty RG watch for me, and my uninspired Nautilus are so boring it's almost impossible to get them in Europe, of course if PP decided to go the AP route and develop them it would be different, maybe they'll end up doing that, who knows

Anyways this thread sounds like an old movie from the 80's the the TV replays a few times a year, I am not very good at finding old threads, if someone could find it and post it to put this one to sleep it would be great

:cheers:

SpeedyTuomas
28 July 2017, 03:12 AM
In my opinion only a smallish part of their lineup is interesting and those pieces are hard to get or on the high price range. I have been underwhelmed with the newer pieces but do enjoy the older ones eh. 3940, 5035..

Murcielagoboy2
28 July 2017, 03:23 AM
The recurrence of this theme, again and again and again, speaks volumes.

So it's not "getting old" - its not the "same as old threads" - You're getting a clearer and clearer indication that their issues are progressively getting worse....

... now to the point where the whingers on TRF aren't the only people complaining. Journo's etc "in the trade" are noticing too.

Take from that what you will.

AK797
28 July 2017, 04:25 AM
AP and PP have issues...they are watches.

The challenge with PP comes with the service times (as we know).

I agree, the watches themselves are absolutely fine, for both brands, but the service wait times are laughable and even disgraceful if they last far more than 6 months so this issue needs to be addressed, and I think we've had a little empirical evidence here that is has been.

As for introducing new models and new sizes in order to court new buyers, well, this is necessary for survival, and our iworld all around us is changing at such a frentic pace, never seen before. Snobs and ancient buyers will often be quick to accuse a brand of selling out, but then if they don't adapt when these ancients die off so will the brand, so this widow burning is not the way ahead.

lapince
28 July 2017, 04:31 AM
The recurrence of this theme, again and again and again, speaks volumes.

So it's not "getting old" - its not the "same as old threads" - You're getting a clearer and clearer indication that their issues are progressively getting worse....

... now to the point where the whingers on TRF aren't the only people complaining. Journo's etc "in the trade" are noticing too.

Take from that what you will.

Yeah I guess they read TRF as well :chuckle:
There are so many different styles to choose from, sure they probably overproduced with chinese market booming, they said would reduce production if I am not mistaken, let's wait and see, there's not one brand where I like all they do, don't think PP is going under anytime soon.
About journos, most on msm are morons, not sure that's a quality

Socal to az
28 July 2017, 04:49 AM
The so called journalists just regurgitate what someone else wrote. Not a single one has an original thought. When I was doing my sis research before buying my car- read 100s of articles on the car. every single one said the same thing- the doors are difficult to close- watch out, you might bump your head.

Idiots!! of course you have to watch your head. But its the damn doors that makes the car!!!

codecow
28 July 2017, 08:01 AM
If they cut the oversized microfiber I'm out:chuckle:

It is a nice rag!

jon_jon
28 July 2017, 08:11 AM
A company has a target audience and Patek Philippe will never be an end all and be all watch company for everyone.

Many people own both Patek and Rolex. However the target audience for these two brands are quite different. I would say the audience for Patek, VC and ALS are more similar, since their strengths lie in dress watches with complications. Although Patek makes some "sporty" watches, it is not their strength and has not been their focus. There are plenty of other brands that do sports watches better than Patek.

Should Patek leave behind their DNA and transform itself into an AP, Hublot or RM? I would say that will kill the brand for sure. Are people looking for the latest trendy sports watches disappointed that Patek doesn't make a watch to their liking? I am quite sure many feel that way and move onto the next watch brand. Patek is aware of this, but they are not going to change their watch DNA to become a sports watch company. However they are adapting their business and watch models to cater to the younger generation. Younger watch enthusiasts want the larger watches and will not be caught dead wearing a 35mm Calatrava that their father wore. That is where the Aquanaut and Nautilus plays the crucial role for first time Patek buyers.

As for service times, it is more significant in certain parts of the world, namely the US and certain parts of Asia. If you drop off your watch in Geneva, I believe the wait time is not that long. Patek has already created a watchmaker school in NYC and will boost their service department for the US market. However that will not solve service times for the next few years. More silicium parts in the movement will mean watches will not need to be serviced as often (theoretically at least, although we shall see).

It is always good to see feedback from those who have considered the brand and decided not to buy into the brand. I am sure Patek appreciates that feedback. However once again to re-iterate, I don't think Patek wants or expects everyone to be their customer. They are not really competing with Rolex in becoming the watch manufacturer for the masses. As for the Grand Exhibition in NYC, they wanted people to understand the history of the company, the work that goes behind manufacturing one of their watches and how it is different from a mass-produced watch.

Socal to az
28 July 2017, 08:24 AM
Should Patek leave behind their DNA and transform itself into an AP, Hublot or RM? I would say that will kill the brand for sure. .

Nothing that Patek has created remotely resembles Hublot, AP or RM. IS this based because they make 42 mm watches?? AP has plenty of 44. So does Hublot. RM makes massive pieces.

Their watches look nothing like the other guys and while their dial designs on a FEW SELECT PIECES are a bit more modern, of the over 200 watches they fabricate, there are plenty of smaller 39mm traditional dials.

Some of these comments are bordering on paranoia.

jon_jon
28 July 2017, 08:33 AM
Nothing that Patek has created remotely resembles Hublot, AP or RM. IS this based because they make 42 mm watches?? AP has plenty of 44. So does Hublot. RM makes massive pieces.

Their watches look nothing like the other guys and while their dial designs on a FEW SELECT PIECES are a bit more modern, of the over 200 watches they fabricate, there are plenty of smaller 39mm traditional dials.

Some of these comments are bordering on paranoia.

Maybe I need to re-phrase my post as there may have been some ambiguity in interpretation. But my question was a rhetorical one. My point was that you can't compare Patek to these brand as they have different target audiences.

What I was trying to say is that Patek does not try to compete with these brands, not do they need to. However if people are interested in sports watches from these brands, they will be quite disappointed when they look at Patek since Patek does not make anything comparable. But that is ok since Patek is not trying to be an end all and be all for all watch enthusiasts. They have their target audience and they are not going to go out of their ways to become a sports watch company.

Socal to az
28 July 2017, 08:34 AM
Totally agree jon! Well said.

Tay821
28 July 2017, 09:53 AM
Totally agree jon! Well said.

I see what you're saying however I don't think the issue of the OP was 'who Patek' is targeting in terms of their customer. There's always going to be a means for Patek because of who they are and what many WIS know what they represent. However for young people like myself who has only got his toes wet in terms of buying PP it's enough to detract from future purchases. The issue is their qc/service, which again, is making me hesitate pulling the trigger on another and go AP. I realize there's plenty of good instances of service out their for Patek but when people save signifacnt money (like me) for a significant amount of time, the "gamble" might not be worth it until they get things ratcheted up in terms of QC.

Full disclosure I LOVE Patek and think they design beautiful pieces from the sportier ones to the PCs. I'd love to have 10 different ones and the 5712 is my favorite watch on the market. I'm just on the fence right now in terms of the confidence I have in their work.

I went to the exhibition in NYC and had a great time talking to the staff learning about their process, the pieces, and the history. others have said it served to bring awareness to their history of the brand and was a great "show". it may have brought in potential buyers that didn't know about the brand...but also those people don't know about the issues we speak of with qc and service times. Many not agree with this but some asked for thoughts from those who don't own a lot of pateks or are contemplating venturing into the brand.

Sorry for the ramble. :cheers:

watchucallit
28 July 2017, 10:39 AM
Well said But as pointed out --- their repair times and quality issues with some of the repairs is inexcusable

A company has a target audience and Patek Philippe will never be an end all and be all watch company for everyone.

Many people own both Patek and Rolex. However the target audience for these two brands are quite different. I would say the audience for Patek, VC and ALS are more similar, since their strengths lie in dress watches with complications. Although Patek makes some "sporty" watches, it is not their strength and has not been their focus. There are plenty of other brands that do sports watches better than Patek.

Should Patek leave behind their DNA and transform itself into an AP, Hublot or RM? I would say that will kill the brand for sure. Are people looking for the latest trendy sports watches disappointed that Patek doesn't make a watch to their liking? I am quite sure many feel that way and move onto the next watch brand. Patek is aware of this, but they are not going to change their watch DNA to become a sports watch company. However they are adapting their business and watch models to cater to the younger generation. Younger watch enthusiasts want the larger watches and will not be caught dead wearing a 35mm Calatrava that their father wore. That is where the Aquanaut and Nautilus plays the crucial role for first time Patek buyers.

As for service times, it is more significant in certain parts of the world, namely the US and certain parts of Asia. If you drop off your watch in Geneva, I believe the wait time is not that long. Patek has already created a watchmaker school in NYC and will boost their service department for the US market. However that will not solve service times for the next few years. More silicium parts in the movement will mean watches will not need to be serviced as often (theoretically at least, although we shall see).

It is always good to see feedback from those who have considered the brand and decided not to buy into the brand. I am sure Patek appreciates that feedback. However once again to re-iterate, I don't think Patek wants or expects everyone to be their customer. They are not really competing with Rolex in becoming the watch manufacturer for the masses. As for the Grand Exhibition in NYC, they wanted people to understand the history of the company, the work that goes behind manufacturing one of their watches and how it is different from a mass-produced watch.

texex91
28 July 2017, 11:08 AM
:chuckle:

kneedeep
28 July 2017, 11:58 AM
Having problems with the PP value equation on other than the 5167 and 5711/12 and LEs and small run references. Based on current market pricing, I'm not alone.

jon_jon
28 July 2017, 12:03 PM
Well said But as pointed out --- their repair times and quality issues with some of the repairs is inexcusable

Agreed, but if you have a short-term solution for training and hiring watchmakers to do the servicing, I am sure they are open to suggestions.

In the business world, most companies welcome feedback, including constructive criticism. However what they appreciate more are people offering realistic solutions for product and service improvement.

texex91
28 July 2017, 12:11 PM
In the business world, most companies welcome feedback, including constructive criticism. However what they appreciate more are people offering realistic solutions for product and service improvement.

In all respect--that is PP's job not 'peoples' (aka owners) job.

As to 'hiring' watchmakers, there are plenty available for them to hire that will probably exceed their requirements.

KarlS
28 July 2017, 02:41 PM
In all respect--that is PP's job not 'peoples' (aka owners) job.

As to 'hiring' watchmakers, there are plenty available for them to hire that will probably exceed their requirements.

The 200 that were fired at Richemont as a start....actually as production numbers decrease and they allocate existing spare capacity to service tunes it will improve. I think we have seen some examples of this.

As for the journo / report? Going back to my post....can we really take this as serious journalism when soon after this he has an article on which is the best hipster watch? But then I haven't seen honest journalism where the brands advertise for ages.

Anyway we fetter there....7 pages to go and no one took my bait on Lange...oh well

jon_jon
28 July 2017, 03:37 PM
In all respect--that is PP's job not 'peoples' (aka owners) job.

As to 'hiring' watchmakers, there are plenty available for them to hire that will probably exceed their requirements.

Agreed. I am not suggesting it is the owners job to offer suggestions for Patek to improve their service quality. But if anyone (especially owners) has any suggestion, I am sure Patek would listen. Thierry Stern has openly stated that when he travels around the world, he is looking to hear from his clients (ADs and Patek watch owners) about their likes and dislikes. I remember a few forum members writing here about speaking with TS during the Grand Exhibition private evening reception. TS seemed quite receptive to listening to the feedback of watch owners. I don't know if you can say this about many watch company CEOs, except for some of the smaller independents.

The 200 that were fired at Richemont as a start....actually as production numbers decrease and they allocate existing spare capacity to service tunes it will improve. I think we have seen some examples of this.

As for the journo / report? Going back to my post....can we really take this as serious journalism when soon after this he has an article on which is the best hipster watch? But then I haven't seen honest journalism where the brands advertise for ages.

Anyway we fetter there....7 pages to go and no one took my bait on Lange...oh well

I missed the news about 200 watchmakers at Richemont being fired. Was this in the EU or US?

I just don't see many Americans wanting to go into a field like watchmaking or any of the "old world" jobs. If there are 200 watchmakers in the US without jobs, I would think they can easily get another job in the industry with ease. However I can't see 200 watchmakers from the EU moving to the US, especially with the US becoming more and more anti-immigration. As mentioned earlier, Patek USA seems to suffer the most from service delays and not Patek Geneva.

Dancing Fire
28 July 2017, 04:43 PM
Sadly you are correct but we can try......do you know that Dufour wears a Datograph....proof that Lange is better than PP?

Yes, IMO..:chuckle:

KarlS
28 July 2017, 04:52 PM
Yes, IMO..:chuckle:

Time to change the avatar I would say!!!

I hope your sticking date is ok. I think you own a Lange and like Dufour so that's what we need to get this thread going

tom2517
28 July 2017, 06:25 PM
Service time is long because watchmakers are busy making new watches rather than servicing them. It pays to make new watches for these brands, servicing? Not so much.

For years owners have put up with it, we will see how long this can continue.

At least now we can see a change in tune, I remember this topic has came up before in this forum but at the time the person who complained got flamed. All sorts of excuses were made for Patek, ranging from Pateks are intricate so they require more time to service, if you can't accept it then don't buy it, to if you can afford Patek, you should have other watches to wear in the meantime.

texex91
28 July 2017, 09:47 PM
Agreed. I am not suggesting it is the owners job to offer suggestions for Patek to improve their service quality. But if anyone (especially owners) has any suggestion, I am sure Patek would listen. Thierry Stern has openly stated that when he travels around the world, he is looking to hear from his clients .

I agree that TS 'listens' to clients. However, 'listening' and actually acting upon the suggestions are two different things. This 'service time issue' is not something new and I'm sure he gets an earful at times. What have they really done to change things? It's been years.

Then again, maybe people when they meet him probably just tell him how they love Patek, they are the best, he is a hero, etc, etc...rather than stating what they really feel.

lapince
28 July 2017, 10:03 PM
I have 3 bought in 7 months, will send one or two, still have 3 watches to wear, it would bother me if I only had my 5712 and nothing else to wear, not the case

jon_jon
29 July 2017, 12:50 AM
Service time is long because watchmakers are busy making new watches rather than servicing them. It pays to make new watches for these brands, servicing? Not so much.

For years owners have put up with it, we will see how long this can continue.

At least now we can see a change in tune, I remember this topic has came up before in this forum but at the time the person who complained got flamed. All sorts of excuses were made for Patek, ranging from Pateks are intricate so they require more time to service, if you can't accept it then don't buy it, to if you can afford Patek, you should have other watches to wear in the meantime.

Just out of curiosity, what is the service wait times in Taiwan? I heard it is not bad in HK. Watchmakers in Geneva are busy making new watches, but in the rest of the world, their main focus should be in servicing and repairing existing watches. AFAIK, service time is lowest in Geneva compared to other parts of the world.

martinr
29 July 2017, 12:55 AM
To me the real issue with service isn't the long time without your watch but wondering if it will come back fixed properly and in the same pristine condition it was in when you sent it in. That and the lack of communication about what exactly the problem is or was are what bothers me. When a person spends the kind of money you need to spend to own a Patek answers should be forthcoming. tom2517 in post #84 is correct in saying that just accepting it won't solve the problem and acceptance seems to be prevalent, I personally won't send a watch to HSWA, it will go to LA Watchworks even if it's under warranty. I had one come back from HSWA warranty work with scratches and marks, rather than send it back LA Watchworks took care of it in ten days! The watch is perfect now.

Tay821
29 July 2017, 01:57 AM
To me the real issue with service isn't the long time without your watch but wondering if it will come back fixed properly and in the same pristine condition it was in when you sent it in. That and the lack of communication about what exactly the problem is or was are what bothers me. When a person spends the kind of money you need to spend to own a Patek answers should be forthcoming. tom2517 in post #84 is correct in saying that just accepting it won't solve the problem and acceptance seems to be prevalent, I personally won't send a watch to HSWA, it will go to LA Watchworks even if it's under warranty. I had one come back from HSWA warranty work with scratches and marks, rather than send it back LA Watchworks took care of it in ten days! The watch is perfect now.

Interesting. Is LA Watchworks authorized to repair by Patek or are they just trusted in general? Curious for my benefit when service time comes

Calatrava r
29 July 2017, 01:59 AM
Pretty happy with my 3 simple sport models, 5711/12, 5167R, I think they have an incredible selection of different types to please anyone. About prices yes they have hugely raised prices, someone tell me if I am wrong but remember the 3712 being launched in 2005 for 13-15k. Not all their watches keep their value as we have seen them n a few models, 5960p grey and 1A being the 2 in my mind, but you can't get it all right. For the 40th editions they were obliged under public opinions and expectations on forums to do something, money grab not sure. Are they perfect? No, QC and service have serious defects compared to other brands, but overall I still think it's a fantastic brand.

Unfortunately, very few PP keep their value anymore. But they are still far better on resale than anything else except Rolex steel.

martinr
29 July 2017, 02:08 AM
Interesting. Is LA Watchworks authorized to repair by Patek or are they just trusted in general? Curious for my benefit when service time comes

They are not an authorized service center and I don't know what they would do if parts are required.

Calatrava r
29 July 2017, 02:08 AM
Which is why every new piece has a wait list

10 year wait for 5524.
People salivating for the "ugly and simple" 5522
Advanced Research selling for double MSRP
Impossible to find 5711

Yeah- they are sure doing crappy and making poor decisions.

The Pilot Travel Time is readily available on the grey market at retail or just a little higher.

Socal to az
29 July 2017, 02:12 AM
The Pilot Travel Time is readily available on the grey market at retail or just a little higher.

as is any other watch out on the market if you are willing to pay the right price.

martinr
29 July 2017, 02:15 AM
Retail is $47,600 and most reputable sources that actually have the watch with box and papers want $56,000 to $59,000, quite a premium.

tom2517
29 July 2017, 02:16 AM
Just out of curiosity, what is the service wait times in Taiwan? I heard it is not bad in HK. Watchmakers in Geneva are busy making new watches, but in the rest of the world, their main focus should be in servicing and repairing existing watches. AFAIK, service time is lowest in Geneva compared to other parts of the world.

I am not sure about Taiwan's service time, the PP I have can only be serviced in Geneva.

Calatrava r
29 July 2017, 02:25 AM
Underwhelmed is putting it mildly – the woman doesn’t know the difference between a rose, and a sunflower, a daisy, and whatever that is supposed to be (at 1 o’clock).
She was quick to point out how she transitioned from the commerce side to the creative side…she said, “I do”, and he said, “you’ll do”.

PP should look to bring in an outside creative director. I understand its all about family with them, but I believe there are people out there who could be a much bigger benefit to the company if they were allowed to seriously influence the direction. I find the current offerings with too much bling, font in your face and unnecessary diamonds. The Nautilus design was from an outside designer.

Calatrava r
29 July 2017, 02:31 AM
In my opinion only a smallish part of their lineup is interesting and those pieces are hard to get or on the high price range. I have been underwhelmed with the newer pieces but do enjoy the older ones eh. 3940, 5035..

I kind of remember the 3940 being very so so all during its production run. With the new blingish offerings, the 3940 has taken on a cult status. Moral of this story if you hold a PP long enough you will do okay.

lapince
29 July 2017, 02:40 AM
Retail is $47,600 and most reputable sources that actually have the watch with box and papers want $56,000 to $59,000, quite a premium.

Must be what he calls "retail or a little higher", "little" being subject to interpretation :chuckle:

Socal to az
29 July 2017, 02:55 AM
PP should look to bring in an outside creative director. I understand its all about family with them, but I believe there are people out there who could be a much bigger benefit to the company if they were allowed to seriously influence the direction. I find the current offerings with too much bling, font in your face and unnecessary diamonds. The Nautilus design was from an outside designer.

This would make sense if they stopped producing all other watches other than the ones with diamonds which they have not.

They are simply giving people choices to expand their market. You may hate the diamonds, others may love it. You each have a model that you can choose from.

lapince
29 July 2017, 03:08 AM
Unfortunately, very few PP keep their value anymore. But they are still far better on resale than anything else except Rolex steel.

Lost on every steel Rolex I sold, but yes except a very few examples, Patek doesn't hold value like before, even if it is nowhere close to value loss of other brands. I don't mind long service times as I have a few, but I would be really pissed if my watch came back scratched after a service like Martin, I would be crazy...

soundserious
29 July 2017, 11:15 AM
As much as I love my Patek's, AP service is a different level entirely. It makes Rolex and Patek seem silly frankly. The attention to detail and responsiveness is astounding.

kaiserphoenix
29 July 2017, 08:53 PM
There is an element of truth no doubt. But for me, after owning countless other brands, the only watches I own now are Pateks. Knock on wood, I never had a single issue with any of my pateks and they have worked without any problems maintaining amazing accuracy and functionality.

starbrown
29 July 2017, 11:56 PM
I think Patek is a great brand, and I own several, including 5711 and 5167. Nevertheless, I think the Watch Snob is on to something. The new LE pilot watch is a case in point. All the discussion in that thread was about investment value, scarcity, etc. Hardly a word about how PP had done anything to make their pilot watch distinctive, unless you want to count a few comments about the "8" being slightly out of place. With a little creativity PP could have added a slightly different design, or an enhanced PR, or a dash of color- something, anything, other than "me, too, with a PP label and corresponding price."

stolpioni
31 July 2017, 01:11 AM
I completely agree. Patek is definitely not what it was before. Looking at design, QC, service time, and the nefarious money-grab they want to pull with their pricing, I have decided my next watch from the holy trinity will be an AP or VC.

The Thierry era is not great. I was even underwhelmed with this interview to Patek's creative director (Thierry's wife):

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/sandrine-stern-patek-philippe-creative-director-interview

Are AP watches even good quality nowadays? I am mostly referring to their dress watches. I have been hearing constantly that they aren't in the same realm as Patek, ALS or even Breguet.

Passionata
14 January 2018, 08:29 PM
Is it just me who is noticing much less quality complaints on PPs theses days?

tyler1980
14 January 2018, 08:35 PM
Is it just me who is noticing much less quality complaints on PPs theses days?

there were a lot on the forum about a year ago, not much since.

enjoythemusic
14 January 2018, 11:43 PM
Agree, not many complaints nowadays. Think the 4 month or so wait time for service is now ingrained into people's schedule. So guess Patek simply had to get customers accustom to those wait times for service i guess.

It may also be due to those, such as myself, who found more durable / desirable mechanical timepieces so we moved on to other brands. There are so many new, and far more innovative, mechanical timepieces than Patek, which is 'old-school' to some. It's interesting to see a few rappers wearing blinging out Pateks tho. Adds to the typical APs, and of course the always-present blinged Rolex Day-Date on stage / camera.

pam66
15 January 2018, 12:59 AM
Nothing that Patek has created remotely resembles Hublot, AP or RM. IS this based because they make 42 mm watches?? AP has plenty of 44. So does Hublot. RM makes massive pieces.

Their watches look nothing like the other guys and while their dial designs on a FEW SELECT PIECES are a bit more modern, of the over 200 watches they fabricate, there are plenty of smaller 39mm traditional dials.

Some of these comments are bordering on paranoia.

correct but the patek pilots look like IWC or zenith. i think an interesting turn this thread could take is whether or not we like the new patek design clues, like 5524, 5168, 5960G etc

Passionata
15 January 2018, 01:31 AM
correct but the patek pilots look like IWC or zenith. i think an interesting turn this thread could take is whether or not we like the new patek design clues, like 5524, 5168, 5960G etc
rather than those craps from AP , what s next a ROO in pink with Barbie face on the dial ?

RussW
15 January 2018, 02:08 AM
Is it just me who is noticing much less quality complaints on PPs theses days?

A lot less Patek basing in general.

RussW
15 January 2018, 02:11 AM
correct but the patek pilots look like IWC or zenith. i think an interesting turn this thread could take is whether or not we like the new patek design clues, like 5524, 5168, 5960G etc

Quality wise, the 5524 is on a different level, and yes I do like the new design cues.

tyler1980
15 January 2018, 02:57 AM
Quality wise, the 5524 is on a different level, and yes I do like the new design cues.

it is. I tried on a Zenith pilot for fun last week with my 5524G. No comparison, not even close. I owned a IWC big pilot, no contest there either.

GB-man
15 January 2018, 03:01 AM
Is it just me who is noticing much less quality complaints on PPs theses days?

I think there’s less action in here in general. Maybe I’m just confusing it with the calm before the Basel storm but seems quiet in here.

goog53
15 January 2018, 03:51 AM
I think there’s less action in here in general. Maybe I’m just confusing it with the calm before the Basel storm but seems quiet in here.

Less member participation: socaltoaz, lapince, Karl, martinr, incontrol, hairdude, myself, thomaspp, jorge, etc.

AK797
15 January 2018, 04:07 AM
A lot less Patek basing in general.

And a lot less members here too :chuckle:, but seriously I noted this too, brand's star has been on the rise, within this forum and without.

GB-man
15 January 2018, 04:38 AM
Less member participation: socaltoaz, lapince, Karl, martinr, incontrol, hairdude, myself, thomaspp, jorge, etc.

Yeah I can tell.

I figure Basel will give people something to talk about. Anyone heard from arnaud?

tyler1980
15 January 2018, 04:59 AM
Less member participation: socaltoaz, lapince, Karl, martinr, incontrol, hairdude, myself, thomaspp, jorge, etc.

Debbie Downer. Now i need a drink and to pour some out for the ones we lost and the ones who disappeared.

goog53
15 January 2018, 05:04 AM
debbie downer. Now i need a drink and to pour some out for the ones we lost and the ones who disappeared.
lol!

pam66
15 January 2018, 05:15 AM
Quality wise, the 5524 is on a different level, and yes I do like the new design cues.

possibly true for the 5524 (which i sort of like, still not sure though whether i would not prefer an IWC pilot. i fell off my shopping list though). however i find the 5522 and the 5960G highly questionable.
5522 is really like IWC/zenith and 5060G....hmmmm.... the vintage trend well represented with the 5320G though. that is a cool watch with a daring design compared to the other PCs.
very high on my list.
5170P: love it in spite of the diamonds, on my list (when the price drops)
in a way the 6006G is also part of pateks new design language (although it can be considered an evolution of the 6000G). i like it a lot!!! modern and young!

Passionata
15 January 2018, 06:09 AM
Yeah I can tell.

I figure Basel will give people something to talk about. Anyone heard from arnaud?

i ve seen him at the AP forum yesterday

RussW
15 January 2018, 07:04 AM
And a lot less members here too :chuckle:, but seriously I noted this too, brand's star has been on the rise, within this forum and without.

Unfortunately, that’s true re the members, and you notice it more on the Patek forum as we’re a pretty small group. It was a crazy period when a few members went too far and are now sadly no longer here. Will take some time to get the numbers back up.

GB-man
15 January 2018, 07:37 AM
i ve seen him at the AP forum yesterday

Thanks George :cheers:

I miss his never ending sentence posts :cheers:

AK797
15 January 2018, 09:14 AM
Less member participation: socaltoaz, lapince, Karl, martinr, incontrol, hairdude, myself, thomaspp, jorge, etc.

Only 2 of them were banned so I hope the others return on a regular basis again. :thumbsup:

AK797
15 January 2018, 09:16 AM
Thanks George :cheers:

I miss his never ending sentence posts :cheers:

Funny timing from Arnaud to leave just after finally defeating his nemesis Paul. :chuckle:

MoosicPa
15 January 2018, 10:29 AM
Questioning Patek's reputation is a bit far for me, but I have to agree on the point of the Pilot Calatrava. It is one of the most uninspiring watches I have seen for a long time, something I would expect to roll out of the Longines or Baume & Mercier factory, not PP. Luckily only 600 of them will be made.

Don't really understand the hatred towards the 5522 Calatrava Pilot :thinking:

I like the watch and the style, though I have long been a lover of the pilot style of watches. :thumbsup:

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4435/37144761986_da60a3cc88_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/YAmBCN)012 (https://flic.kr/p/YAmBCN) by

[url=https://flic.kr/p/YECi2Z]https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4332/37193087191_bc7c489c71_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150333170@N07/)024 (https://flic.kr/p/YECi2Z) by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/150333170@N07/]

tom2517
15 January 2018, 04:26 PM
Yeah I can tell.

I figure Basel will give people something to talk about. Anyone heard from arnaud?

Well thats because you guys ran people off the town! Kidding aside, but seriously sometimes a few will make people feel unwelcome here if you critique a certain reference or brand. It seems like if you can't conform, then it's better off going elsewhere.

In the past I have said Aquanaut is ugly (still do), got flamed. I said RM is overpriced, people will imply that's because I can't afford it. Anyways some people knows better.

So...luckily I have a thick face, I haven't bought a Patek in a while (last one is 5970P a few years ago) but I have just purchased a 5131P and will share what I think of it shortly when I got time to take some close up pictures.

Passionata
15 January 2018, 06:08 PM
Thanks George :cheers:



I miss his never ending sentence posts :cheers:



I miss him too

Passionata
15 January 2018, 06:14 PM
Well thats because you guys ran people off the town! Kidding aside, but seriously sometimes a few will make people feel unwelcome here if you critique a certain reference or brand. It seems like if you can't conform, then it's better off going elsewhere.



In the past I have said Aquanaut is ugly (still do), got flamed. I said RM is overpriced, people will imply that's because I can't afford it. Anyways some people knows better.



So...luckily I have a thick face, I haven't bought a Patek in a while (last one is 5970P a few years ago) but I have just purchased a 5131P and will share what I think of it shortly when I got time to take some close up pictures.



1.i think very nice ppl here around
2.5131P[emoji1319][emoji1319][emoji1319]looking forward to read yr impressions

incontrol
16 January 2018, 01:36 AM
Well thats because you guys ran people off the town! Kidding aside, but seriously sometimes a few will make people feel unwelcome here if you critique a certain reference or brand. It seems like if you can't conform, then it's better off going elsewhere.



In the past I have said Aquanaut is ugly (still do), got flamed. I said RM is overpriced, people will imply that's because I can't afford it. Anyways some people knows better.



So...luckily I have a thick face, I haven't bought a Patek in a while (last one is 5970P a few years ago) but I have just purchased a 5131P and will share what I think of it shortly when I got time to take some close up pictures.



Wow! Looking forward to the review of your 5131P! Congrats!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

GB-man
16 January 2018, 02:59 AM
Well thats because you guys ran people off the town! Kidding aside, but seriously sometimes a few will make people feel unwelcome here if you critique a certain reference or brand. It seems like if you can't conform, then it's better off going elsewhere.

In the past I have said Aquanaut is ugly (still do), got flamed. I said RM is overpriced, people will imply that's because I can't afford it. Anyways some people knows better.

So...luckily I have a thick face, I haven't bought a Patek in a while (last one is 5970P a few years ago) but I have just purchased a 5131P and will share what I think of it shortly when I got time to take some close up pictures.

I don't think I ran arnaud out of town lol must have been someone else. Re: the aqaunaut...take it back :cussing::cussing::rant::chuckle:

tom2517
16 January 2018, 04:31 AM
I don't think I ran arnaud out of town lol must have been someone else. Re: the aqaunaut...take it back :cussing::cussing::rant::chuckle:

Lol I didn’t meant it was you, you just happened to be quoted.

As for Aquanaut, not a chance :agree:

pam66
16 January 2018, 06:15 AM
Don't really understand the hatred towards the 5522 Calatrava Pilot :thinking:

I like the watch and the style, though I have long been a lover of the pilot style of watches. :thumbsup:

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4435/37144761986_da60a3cc88_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/YAmBCN)012 (https://flic.kr/p/YAmBCN) by

[url=https://flic.kr/p/YECi2Z]https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4332/37193087191_bc7c489c71_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150333170@N07/)024 (https://flic.kr/p/YECi2Z) by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/150333170@N07/]

just what i said, they all look good but very mu h alike. no patek DNA in the pilots.

MoosicPa
16 January 2018, 07:18 AM
just what i said, they all look good but very mu h alike. no patek DNA in the pilots.

I don't know if I can agree that there is NO Patek DNA in the 5522 Pilot.....

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4612/25840172348_04061b3bdf_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/FnpCYU)PatekPilot1 (https://flic.kr/p/FnpCYU) by

[url=https://flic.kr/p/23sv1Pd]https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4629/39681295962_6b0c235453_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150333170@N07/)Patekpilot2 (https://flic.kr/p/23sv1Pd) by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/150333170@N07/]

pam66
16 January 2018, 06:48 PM
I don't know if I can agree that there is NO Patek DNA in the 5522 Pilot.....

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4612/25840172348_04061b3bdf_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/FnpCYU)PatekPilot1 (https://flic.kr/p/FnpCYU) by

[url=https://flic.kr/p/23sv1Pd]https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4629/39681295962_6b0c235453_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150333170@N07/)Patekpilot2 (https://flic.kr/p/23sv1Pd) by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/150333170@N07/]

hmmmm.....interesting. thanks.

tyler1980
16 January 2018, 06:50 PM
just what i said, they all look good but very mu h alike. no patek DNA in the pilots.

The pilots have MORE Patek DNA than the Nautilus did when that was first released for sure. That said, I really don't think the point of the watch was to copy directly anything in their past, as its sort of its own thing.

If Patek DNA is required for a piece to be liked, then they cant release anything new, ever. DNA seems like a code word for recycled ideas. Thats my thought anyway.
If the Nautilus was never rooted in anything from Patek's past then its always going to be the adopted child, yet no one today thinks its anything other than a biologically true Patek.

onmyhand
16 January 2018, 09:00 PM
I saw a you-tube presentation of the 5524G. I share what the presenter mentioned "the pilot watch is not a watch of the past, it is a watch of the future".

On relating to the past, I would like to quote from an article with TS stating "You see it in our museum where you have two original examples. In fact I have another(vintage pilot watch) that can prove to everybody that it's not a copy of Zenith or IWC. Mine was earlier. I've never shown the picture. I kept it in case (the criticism) went too far.

I like the 5524G for what it is, the design, the dial and the pushers.

tyler1980
16 January 2018, 09:40 PM
I saw a you-tube presentation of the 5524G. I share what the presenter mentioned "the pilot watch is not a watch of the past, it is a watch of the future".

On relating to the past, I would like to quote from an article with TS stating "You see it in our museum where you have two original examples. In fact I have another(vintage pilot watch) that can prove to everybody that it's not a copy of Zenith or IWC. Mine was earlier. I've never shown the picture. I kept it in case (the criticism) went too far.

I like the 5524G for what it is, the design, the dial and the pushers.

i think its both. That video made perfect sense to me. Sure the design touches on the past but at the same time isn't a vintage re-issue and also is a 42mm watch (big for Patek) aimed squarely at the future. The travel time also makes it a Pilot but not for the person flying the plane, but the person riding in it. TS or someone said that.

I totally get its a marmite watch and thats OK, its still 100% Patek though. Just got back from the Patek salon in London as i was looking at the navy calfskin strap for my 5524 this morning. The lady helping me said the waitlist there is 8 years long. People want it for sure, granted they are not making a lot though.

RussW
16 January 2018, 09:55 PM
The pilots have MORE Patek DNA than the Nautilus did when that was first released for sure. That said, I really don't think the point of the watch was to copy directly anything in their past, as its sort of its own thing.

If Patek DNA is required for a piece to be liked, then they cant release anything new, ever. DNA seems like a code word for recycled ideas. Thats my thought anyway.
If the Nautilus was never rooted in anything from Patek's past then its always going to be the adopted child, yet no one today thinks its anything other than a biologically true Patek.

For me, Patek DNA goes deeper than what the watch looks like. It’s the attention to detail, the quality, the construction. If you’re familiar with Patek you could pick up the 5524, and even without the name on the dial, you would know it felt like a Patek. You don’t get that if you’re just looking at photos and saying it looks like a Zenith.

Regarding attention to detail, have a look at Miranda’s post on Patek dial making on Purists forum. That’s way beyond the likes of Zenith, IWC etc.

tyler1980
16 January 2018, 09:56 PM
For me, Patek DNA goes deeper than what the watch looks like. It’s the attention to detail, the quality, the construction. If you’re familiar with Patek you could pick up the 5524, and even without the name on the dial, you would know it felt like a Patek. You don’t get that if you’re just looking at photos and saying it looks like a Zenith.

Regarding attention to detail, have a look at Miranda’s post on Patek dial making on Purists forum. That’s way beyond the likes of Zenith, IWC etc.

:cheers: agreed

Hpozzuoli
16 January 2018, 10:30 PM
I will eventually buy a Patek of some fashion. I am drawn to their complications. I don’t see the appeal of their stainless pieces. I hate when special editions are released. I always thought unless the occasion is worthy enough a special edition is a way to jump start poor sales or create buz when all is quite. Richard Mille has special editions for the special editions. The car guys do it, the jewelry people do it, the pocketbook people do it, and the watch people do it too. Using inferior parts is the real issue.

tyler1980
16 January 2018, 10:37 PM
I will eventually buy a Patek of some fashion. I am drawn to their complications. I don’t see the appeal of their stainless pieces. I hate when special editions are released. I always thought unless the occasion is worthy enough a special edition is a way to jump start poor sales or create buz when all is quite. Richard Mille has special editions for the special editions. The car guys do it, the jewelry people do it, the pocketbook people do it, and the watch people do it too. Using inferior parts is the real issue.

the SS are more rare, and quite frankly seem to be the preferred metal of collectors. Most Pateks are PM.

Personally though I tend to pick the watch first and then worry about the metals second. I know some do it the other way around and thats fine too.

Passionata
16 January 2018, 10:52 PM
Less member participation: socaltoaz, lapince, Karl, martinr, incontrol, hairdude, myself, thomaspp, jorge, etc.

even our small audience is splitted between trf and puristpro which is a pitty since we are a few anyhow .

Passionata
16 January 2018, 10:55 PM
I don't know if I can agree that there is NO Patek DNA in the 5522 Pilot.....

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4612/25840172348_04061b3bdf_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/FnpCYU)PatekPilot1 (https://flic.kr/p/FnpCYU) by

[url=https://flic.kr/p/23sv1Pd]https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4629/39681295962_6b0c235453_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150333170@N07/)Patekpilot2 (https://flic.kr/p/23sv1Pd) by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/150333170@N07/]
adding that AFAIK these pieces are all prototypes never been regulalry produced .
and no PM or SS just chrome plated.

MoosicPa
17 January 2018, 12:27 AM
adding that AFAIK these pieces are all prototypes never been regulalry produced .
and no PM or SS just chrome plated.

Fake news... the 96 with the pilot dial was part of Patek's regular production. The other two watches were prototypes.

https://monochrome-watches.com/history-of-the-patek-philippe-calatrava-part-1-reference-96/

Passionata
17 January 2018, 12:49 AM
Fake news... the 96 with the pilot dial was part of Patek's regular production. The other two watches were prototypes.



https://monochrome-watches.com/history-of-the-patek-philippe-calatrava-part-1-reference-96/



Fake it s a bit harsh not entirely correct is the right way to comment.

MoosicPa
17 January 2018, 12:56 AM
Fake it s a bit harsh not entirely correct is the right way to comment.

Sometimes doing a little homework before making generalized, off-the-cuff statements wouldn't hurt. Just saying.

Passionata
17 January 2018, 01:05 AM
Sometimes doing a little homework before making generalized, off-the-cuff statements wouldn't hurt. Just saying.



Out of 3 two of my comments were spot on the third one was wrong indeed but i see you ve a bit overdosed the caffeine today.

MoosicPa
17 January 2018, 01:11 AM
Out of 3 two of my comments were spot on the third one was wrong indeed but i see you ve a bit overdosed the caffeine today.

Let's not forget you were also wrong about them being only chrome plated, as the 96 was not chrome plated. :thumbsdow

pam66
17 January 2018, 03:00 AM
what i learn from this is that the 5524, 5522 are not the first patek-designed pilots. interesting but for me they are still low on patek DNA. but we shall know in 50 years whether this will change...:::))))

AK797
17 January 2018, 03:36 AM
I will eventually buy a Patek of some fashion. I am drawn to their complications. I don’t see the appeal of their stainless pieces. I hate when special editions are released. I always thought unless the occasion is worthy enough a special edition is a way to jump start poor sales or create buz when all is quite. Richard Mille has special editions for the special editions. The car guys do it, the jewelry people do it, the pocketbook people do it, and the watch people do it too. Using inferior parts is the real issue.

The NYE seems to have been a great success according to the many lucky invitees here.

Passionata
17 January 2018, 03:38 AM
Let's not forget you were also wrong about them being only chrome plated, as the 96 was not chrome plated. :thumbsdow



Never said i m confident (you may know the AFAIK abbrev.)however it s a bloody forum not a fighting pit ,behave yourself!

tyler1980
17 January 2018, 03:50 AM
what is it about the word "pilot" around here?


https://media.giphy.com/media/ToMjGpjpXMFPshSYGLm/giphy.gif

GB-man
17 January 2018, 03:56 AM
On fantasy football forums, yes that's a thing, we have a "vent and rant" thread specifically to keep the long winded, non relevant criticisms etc in one place. It allows people to say their part without muddying up the other threads and allows others to ignore their part.

(I am not pointing fingers here just saying it works elsewhere).

tyler1980
17 January 2018, 03:57 AM
On fantasy football forums, yes that's a thing, we have a "vent and rant" thread specifically to keep the long winded, non relevant criticisms etc in one place. It allows people to say their part without muddying up the other threads and allows others to ignore their part.

(I am not pointing fingers here just saying it works elsewhere).

a venting thread, that is also a sticky. Love it :chuckle:

How can you possibly have time for fantasy football forums? seriously

GB-man
17 January 2018, 04:28 AM
a venting thread, that is also a sticky. Love it :chuckle:

How can you possibly have time for fantasy football forums? seriously

That is over with now of course. I have no idea. Clearly I am less than productive. :lol:

LAFLARE
17 January 2018, 05:34 AM
what is it about the word "pilot" around here?


https://media.giphy.com/media/ToMjGpjpXMFPshSYGLm/giphy.gif

:twit::twit:

MoosicPa
17 January 2018, 05:58 AM
@Passionata, I responded to your post which contained some false and misleading information, in an effort to keep the record straight. If someone was on the forum doing some research on the Patek Pilot, it is better that they have the correct information as opposed false information.

You in turn respond telling me what I should post:

Fake it s a bit harsh not entirely correct is the right way to comment.

You then proceed to attack me accusing me of being "overdosed" on caffeine:

Out of 3 two of my comments were spot on the third one was wrong indeed but i see you ve a bit overdosed the caffeine today.

Then you proceed to tell me to behave:

Never said i m confident (you may know the AFAIK abbrev.)however it s a bloody forum not a fighting pit ,behave yourself!

I think you should take your own advise and grow some thicker skin.

Also, again, before you post false information, you should take the time to do some checking as opposed to just making things up.

DaveDhc
17 January 2018, 07:12 AM
I have been on many forums covering many topics. A few rules I follow make it a pleasant experience.


I am careful to never tell people what to do.
I am careful never to tell people how to think.
I never tell people what they should and should not say.
I never fight or ague.


I never make critical statements about watches. If I were to post a comment that I thought a watch is ugly, or that I don't like it, I feel it is equivalent to the following:

Walk up to a friend or someone with a watch on. You discover it is a watch you don't care for. Tell the person you think the watch is ugly.

Isn't that what is being done when you make comments of that nature on a watch forum?

If I don't like something, I keep it to myself. I don't enjoy reading critical comments about my love and joy watches. It doesn't make me feel good.

Notice that I am not telling anyone on this forum to not be critical. I am telling you that I don't make critical comments and why I don't. If you want to that is your business.

yessir69
17 January 2018, 07:58 AM
I don't have a problem saying that I think a watch is ugly. I did that earlier on another subforum. That doesn't equate to a personal attack on a person who likes the watch. It's just my opinion.

At any rate, if you want to keep your opinion to yourself I respect that. It's just a different way of expressing oneself in the forum.

Peace and love!!!

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

AndyWright
17 January 2018, 08:35 AM
INSANITY..... Had to take my 5980 for five year overhaul service, and they kept it for 18 MONTHS!! If they do that to me every five years, that means they will have my watch 1/5th of its life. Something needs to change about this.

AK797
17 January 2018, 09:01 AM
On fantasy football forums, yes that's a thing, we have a "vent and rant" thread specifically to keep the long winded, non relevant criticisms etc in one place. It allows people to say their part without muddying up the other threads and allows others to ignore their part.

(I am not pointing fingers here just saying it works elsewhere).

Worst one of these I saw was on a Game of Thrones forum, I went on to catch up on some backstory after I started watching half way thru, and boy do they go after each other over make-believe characters! The vent or "I'm half mad and I know it" thread was miles longer than all the normal threads.

AK797
17 January 2018, 09:02 AM
INSANITY..... Had to take my 5980 for five year overhaul service, and they kept it for 18 MONTHS!! If they do that to me every five years, that means they will have my watch 1/5th of its life. Something needs to change about this.

Did you just get it back? Damn, I thought things were improving.

Passionata
17 January 2018, 06:43 PM
@Passionata, I responded to your post which contained some false and misleading information, in an effort to keep the record straight. If someone was on the forum doing some research on the Patek Pilot, it is better that they have the correct information as opposed false information.













Also, again, before you post false information, you should take the time to do some checking as opposed to just making things up.


Here s the point i said fake is harsh and false is correct i think u r born american so i shouldn t teach you differences in meaning if words.
But fine let s close this conversation since it leads nowhere .

I think PP Pilot has a new meaning from today;-)

PJ S
17 January 2018, 07:28 PM
...

Walk up to a friend or someone with a watch on. You discover it is a watch you don't care for. Tell the person you think the watch is ugly.

Isn't that what is being done when you make comments of that nature on a watch forum?

If I don't like something, I keep it to myself. I don't enjoy reading critical comments about my love and joy watches. It doesn't make me feel good.

...

Mother Theresa has been in touch, she's nominating you for the Nobel Peace Prize. On behalf of everyone on the forum, we're all rooting for you – fingers crossed!

In regards to randomly approaching people in public and telling them what you think of their watch... er no, it's nothing even remotely like that.
A forum is a virtual pub with people moving from one table to another, joining in the various conversations taking place.
Last time I was in a real pub and discussed the drinks we were supping, no-one took offence or had a problem because someone else didn't share their view on a specific aged single malt or port/sherry/etc.
If we can do that, and the same with food, then by extension, watches should be no different.
There is nothing disrespectful about having a difference of opinion on how something looks or tastes

charcoal6666
17 January 2018, 07:55 PM
I have only been collecting watch for 5years but now Patek is always in my A list

tom2517
17 January 2018, 08:43 PM
Mother Theresa has been in touch, she's nominating you for the Nobel Peace Prize. On behalf of everyone on the forum, we're all rooting for you – fingers crossed!

In regards to randomly approaching people in public and telling them what you think of their watch... er no, it's nothing even remotely like that.
A forum is a virtual pub with people moving from one table to another, joining in the various conversations taking place.
Last time I was in a real pub and discussed the drinks we were supping, no-one took offence or had a problem because someone else didn't share their view on a specific aged single malt or port/sherry/etc.
If we can do that, and the same with food, then by extension, watches should be no different.
There is nothing disrespectful about having a difference of opinion on how something looks or tastes

Yeah Dave I can understand your point but at the same time, as long as people don't critique in a mean way, I think it's ok.

tyler1980
17 January 2018, 08:52 PM
Yeah Dave I can understand your point but at the same time, as long as people don't critique in a mean way, I think it's ok.

i agree with you. Being critical of a watch in a abstract sense is different than being critical of someones watch they spent a lot of money on.

The concept of context is lost on a lot of people and you can say the same thing in two different threads and in one its ok and in the other it isn't. Its not a hard concept to grasp.

Basically if you don't like my pilot, fine. I like that it divides opinion, and happy to discuss. Don't however bash it in someone's incoming thread and don't question the wearers taste. Hate the watch all you want.

Murcielagoboy2
17 January 2018, 11:29 PM
INSANITY..... Had to take my 5980 for five year overhaul service, and they kept it for 18 MONTHS!! If they do that to me every five years, that means they will have my watch 1/5th of its life. Something needs to change about this.

That is absolutely outrageous. I mean, that's just not good enough.

And I don't get it, I've got a friend who fell off a bicycle wearing a 5131j (yes, that's right - he really loves to wear these things).
Anyway, he smashed the watch to pieces and PP had it back to him, looking BRAND NEW in 6 month.

Something doesn't add up...

AK797
18 January 2018, 12:23 AM
Yeah Dave I can understand your point but at the same time, as long as people don't critique in a mean way, I think it's ok.

Yeah I guess Pub Dave has a point. Always wondered what the P stood for...

PJ S
18 January 2018, 12:55 AM
^
I've a sneaking suspicion that someone is managing to make 1+1 equal 7!

codecow
18 January 2018, 01:37 AM
I just came in to state that my 5522 is the wind beneath my wings.

GB-man
18 January 2018, 02:16 AM
I just came in to state that my 5522 is the wind beneath my wings.



It changed my life. The 5522 is the Tony Robbins of Pateks.

tyler1980
18 January 2018, 02:18 AM
It changed my life. The 5522 is the Tony Robbins of Pateks.

for a week. :chuckle:

Passionata
18 January 2018, 04:51 AM
That is absolutely outrageous. I mean, that's just not good enough.



And I don't get it, I've got a friend who fell off a bicycle wearing a 5131j (yes, that's right - he really loves to wear these things).

Anyway, he smashed the watch to pieces and PP had it back to him, looking BRAND NEW in 6 month.



Something doesn't add up...



Your friend is worse than me ,do u have before after pics?love to see it.What was broken ,case lugs or just crystal?

GB-man
18 January 2018, 11:32 AM
for a week. :chuckle:

I have spent far less time with other things that have had an impact :read:

AK797
18 January 2018, 12:06 PM
I have spent far less time with other things that have had an impact :read:

We've all met a girl like that.

codecow
18 January 2018, 01:20 PM
I have to say I finally got my Speedmaster 60th Ltd and I’ve been wearing it on a red white and blue nato. My 5522 has sat on a winder for almost a month straight.

GB-man
18 January 2018, 02:48 PM
We've all met a girl like that.

As Omar would say... “Oh indeed.”

I have to say I finally got my Speedmaster 60th Ltd and I’ve been wearing it on a red white and blue nato. My 5522 has sat on a winder for almost a month straight.

Congrats on the speedy :cheers:

Marciano490
18 January 2018, 03:08 PM
Here s the point i said fake is harsh and false is correct i think u r born american so i shouldn t teach you differences in meaning if words.
But fine let s close this conversation since it leads nowhere .

I think PP Pilot has a new meaning from today;-)

To clarify, in case you aren’t American, “fake news” is a joking term here thanks to our dear leader. It isn’t meant to be offensive as it might’ve sounded last year.

AAP8
18 January 2018, 03:21 PM
For those of you talking about long service times, is this directly with Patek or the others they list on their site? Like Govberg or Kern?

walds11
18 January 2018, 07:26 PM
For those of you talking about long service times, is this directly with Patek or the others they list on their site? Like Govberg or Kern?

Good question. And do they charge the same prices as the HSWA?

Murcielagoboy2
18 January 2018, 11:38 PM
Your friend is worse than me ,do u have before after pics?love to see it.What was broken ,case lugs or just crystal?

I don't have any pics.
He just said that the watch came back looking brand new - which I saw and it did.
Case was absolutely scratched to hell. God knows how they repaired that. Crystal smashed. Movement not working. Dial I don't know whether that was smashed or not.

Passionata
19 January 2018, 12:05 AM
I don't have any pics.
He just said that the watch came back looking brand new - which I saw and it did.
Case was absolutely scratched to hell. God knows how they repaired that. Crystal smashed. Movement not working. Dial I don't know whether that was smashed or not.
:thumbsup:i guess they can laser gold maybe easier than SS however the bill must be hefty specially if they had to replace the dial !

MoosicPa
19 January 2018, 01:16 AM
Here s the point i said fake is harsh and false is correct i think u r born american so i shouldn t teach you differences in meaning if words.
But fine let s close this conversation since it leads nowhere .

I think PP Pilot has a new meaning from today;-)

What does my being an American have to do with anything? Am I to assume that my comments would be more relevant for you if I were Canadian or some other nationality?

Now has it become acceptable on TRF to questions another members nationality, as though it matters? Someone's comments from country "A" are less relevant than those from county "B"?

Not sure why this is even relevant to the conversation. :thinking:

GB-man
19 January 2018, 01:51 AM
What does my being an American have to do with anything? Am I to assume that my comments would be more relevant for you if I were Canadian or some other nationality?

Now has it become acceptable on TRF to questions another members nationality, as though it matters? Someone's comments from country "A" are less relevant than those from county "B"?

Not sure why this is even relevant to the conversation. :thinking:

George just means you have a strong grasp of english whereas for many members here english is a second or third language. :thumbsup:

Passionata
19 January 2018, 04:12 AM
George just means you have a strong grasp of english whereas for many members here english is a second or third language. :thumbsup:



Thank you Sir ,thank you[emoji1319][emoji1319][emoji1319]
seems logic is rare treasure these days .
🤝🤝🤝

Jack Cassidy
19 January 2018, 08:46 AM
Glad we non-native english/american speakers received the gift of clarification of the subtle semantic differences between fake and false. Great unexpected educational opportunities in this thread. Thanks.

rolexpatek363
19 January 2018, 10:37 AM
INSANITY..... Had to take my 5980 for five year overhaul service, and they kept it for 18 MONTHS!! If they do that to me every five years, that means they will have my watch 1/5th of its life. Something needs to change about this.

That's shocking. 23% of the time, your watch is getting fixed.

Passionata
19 January 2018, 06:03 PM
INSANITY..... Had to take my 5980 for five year overhaul service, and they kept it for 18 MONTHS!! If they do that to me every five years, that means they will have my watch 1/5th of its life. Something needs to change about this.



Where was done ,i c u r from London so i guess they sent back to Geneve ,did they said anything as explanation?My overhaul was less than 2months and I know other members w the same ref as your with similar 8-10weeks turnaround.

tyler1980
19 January 2018, 06:53 PM
Where was done ,i c u r from London so i guess they sent back to Geneve ,did they said anything as explanation?My overhaul was less than 2months and I know other members w the same ref as your with similar 8-10weeks turnaround.

if he didn't follow up they might have forgot about it. Im being serious. AP forgot to tell me when one of my pieces was fixed when it was in for warranty work. I had to call them to ask what was going on to learn that it was already fixed.

bobernet
20 January 2018, 03:29 PM
INSANITY..... Had to take my 5980 for five year overhaul service, and they kept it for 18 MONTHS!! If they do that to me every five years, that means they will have my watch 1/5th of its life. Something needs to change about this.

Why I won’t own a Patek. The apologists are nearly as bad as the brand.

No many how many other cars I have to drive, if I had a Ferrari gone for 18 months for a 15,000 mile service, I’d lose my mind. It would be front page news.

Watch Admirer
20 January 2018, 08:09 PM
Service time is that long because Patek makes sure that the watch returns to the owner as perfect as it can be.

tyler1980
20 January 2018, 09:07 PM
Service time is that long because Patek makes sure that the watch returns to the owner as perfect as it can be.

if it doesn't take 18months to make the watch in the first place, it should not take 18 months to service it. Excessive service times do not have any thing to do with getting it perfect.

GB-man
20 January 2018, 11:15 PM
Service time is that long because Patek makes sure that the watch returns to the owner as perfect as it can be.



:rofl: have I got a story for you

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=424258