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-   -   being scammed by a pledge member. please help (https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=576064)

Mezz72 23 December 2017 11:41 AM

really scary to hear of such stuff. more so when i’m an overseas buyer at the other side of the globe.
i’ve bought quite a few pieces from trusted sellers here, cwieb, david smith, drster, jacek, kirill etc
i’m so very glad nothing has gone amiss so far.
as a buyer, i think it’s very important to ask questions and clear all the doubts you have. if the seller can’t answer or is not forthcoming with the answers at all, it’s best to avoid. no point saving that couple of dollars and take on a big risk.


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4vCoupe 23 December 2017 12:13 PM

Terrible situation. I hope you get a positive resolution to this situation.


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K12AN 23 December 2017 07:04 PM

Was wondering is the moderators would be able to share details of karle12 details which were used to become a pledge member i.e. name, address, PayPal, credit card etc?
I'd like to add this to my reports to the authorities.

This person needs to be stopped.
Would be interesting to know also if Karle12 used the same details to join the forum as he/she did for other aliases used.

Old Expat Beast 23 December 2017 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K12AN (Post 8130381)
Was wondering is the moderators would be able to share details of karle12 details which were used to become a pledge member i.e. name, address, PayPal, credit card etc?
I'd like to add this to my reports to the authorities.

This person needs to be stopped.
Would be interesting to know also if Karle12 used the same details to join the forum as he/she did for other aliases used.

You need to contact admin for that kind of info. Send a Private Message to Lol-x (https://www.rolexforums.com/member.php?u=209).

jonnyz1245 24 December 2017 02:52 PM

OP, so sorry this happened to you. Thieves are pond scum and karma is a b***h.

Good luck and I do hope this ends with happy ending.

drfaulkner 24 December 2017 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thathorologist (Post 8125811)
I understand that being a Pledge member basically means nothing but, what if Pledge members went through a security clearance before becoming a pledge member?
Like they would have to submit their references to mods and provide identification and proof of address, I think that would scare the scammers away, of course so much work for the mods but at least people wouldnít be hurting like this.
Here are 2 of my suggestions for 2018;
1) Every Pledge member should put a watermark of Their Handle on posted pictures. A watermark that cannot be photoshopped. (Watermark doesnít make people trustworthy it will only reduce the amount of pictures that are being stolen off of forums) Maybe a Piece of paper with TRF ID and Date the watch is being posted with 3 different time zones, NYC, Denver and LA timezones. And place the paper right in the middle of the picture like on the Thai RolexForums
2) Every Pledge member should verify identity and address before making a $25 donation.
Please feel free to add to this list.

Not every pledge member is interested in selling\buying. I am here for common interest in watches, information, education, entertainment and friendship.

roaddog359 25 December 2017 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drfaulkner (Post 8133079)
Not every pledge member is interested in selling\buying. I am here for common interest in watches, information, education, entertainment and friendship.

I agree that some supporters just want to donate $25.00 to support the forum. Maybe sellers should have to make a $100.00 donation to be listed to sell. That may slow some of the scammers.

And the real sellers are making way more than that off one watch. All the big sellers are making out like fat cats. Only $25.00 a year overhead to run a business. Not to bad! Then some want to over charge you and claim supply and demand. So they can charge you more for a watch that they paid less for. Nothing like seeing the same seller post the same watch for sale several months later but increase the price. Then claim supply and demand for the price increase. If the demand was there they would have sold the watch on one of the first 2 postings for example .

Then if you want to use a credit card to afford you some protection. They want you to pay their fees for doing business with them. For a lot of sellers there is more being made than 2-3 hundred dollars. The big resellers are getting watches 10% to 30% below msrp. So don't fall for margins are tight, I can't come down any. GREED! of course this does not apply to all the sellers.

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Thathorologist 25 December 2017 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drfaulkner (Post 8133079)
Not every pledge member is interested in selling\buying. I am here for common interest in watches, information, education, entertainment and friendship.

At this point we see a lot of people suffer because of these scams and everyone is trying to ease the pain and come up with ideas and solutions that are useful to help prevent these sort of scams. Not every tip, idea or solution is perfect and it may or may not work.

K12AN 25 December 2017 05:31 AM

In hindsight I wish I'd had a phone call with the seller and facetime or Skype to see their face at least.
Additionally if ask to see some proof in the video that they have the watch with them and proof of ID.
I'd also trawl through every detail of their history on the forum and not give the benefit of any doubt like I did in this instance.

The question is, would genuine sellers be out off this if a buyer requested this level of communication?

Tony64 25 December 2017 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K12AN (Post 8133978)
In hindsight I wish I'd had a phone call with the seller and facetime or Skype to see their face at least.
Additionally if ask to see some proof in the video that they have the watch with them and proof of ID.
I'd also trawl through every detail of their history on the forum and not give the benefit of any doubt like I did in this instance.

The question is, would genuine sellers be out off this if a buyer requested this level of communication?

Not if they want to make the sale.

imperio 25 December 2017 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K12AN (Post 8133978)
In hindsight I wish I'd had a phone call with the seller and facetime or Skype to see their face at least.

Additionally if ask to see some proof in the video that they have the watch with them and proof of ID.

I'd also trawl through every detail of their history on the forum and not give the benefit of any doubt like I did in this instance.



The question is, would genuine sellers be out off this if a buyer requested this level of communication?



If you're a regular seller I imagine you might just move on to the next potential buyer. But if you don't buy/sell often (like me), I'd rather transact with a buyer that tried hard to verify my identity since it gives me more assurance that they too are legit.


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roaddog359 25 December 2017 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imperio (Post 8134100)
If you're a regular seller I imagine you might just move on to the next potential buyer. But if you don't buy/sell often (like me), I'd rather transact with a buyer that tried hard to verify my identity since it gives me more assurance that they too are legit.


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Thats a very good point!^^^

csuzak 25 December 2017 02:02 PM

Glad I read through this entire thread. Definitely going to go into each deal more cautiously than I did before I bought my Omegas, despite them being eBay sales.

Sorry this happened to you OP.

GB-man 25 December 2017 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K12AN (Post 8133978)
In hindsight I wish I'd had a phone call with the seller and facetime or Skype to see their face at least.
Additionally if ask to see some proof in the video that they have the watch with them and proof of ID.
I'd also trawl through every detail of their history on the forum and not give the benefit of any doubt like I did in this instance.

The question is, would genuine sellers be out off this if a buyer requested this level of communication?

Sellers should be completely willing to skype or chat. I always offer that in any listing of my personal watches seeing as Iím not a ďtrusted seller.Ē Just a guy with too many watches on the to do list :chuckle:

Aventura 30 December 2017 03:43 AM

Only face to face...
 
I am a private individual and I want to sell an equal watch at the same price. But I would only face to face in a bank. It is the only way that gives security to both parties. Any other variant unless it is a recognized seller is risky.
You have to find a buyer in the same city that you live but there is no other way. May you have luck and wishes that you recover your money.

William.L. 30 December 2017 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K12AN (Post 8133978)
In hindsight I wish I'd had a phone call with the seller and facetime or Skype to see their face at least.
Additionally if ask to see some proof in the video that they have the watch with them and proof of ID.
I'd also trawl through every detail of their history on the forum and not give the benefit of any doubt like I did in this instance.

The question is, would genuine sellers be out off this if a buyer requested this level of communication?




Nope. I welcome it. I guess it depends on the level in which you sell things, but I think for the average guy who does a decent amount of sales, spending the time to both verify who your potential customer is, along with putting their concern and worries at ease would be worth the time you'd have to make for it. I always offer my cell or work number which is a jewelry store.

I make it so I'm not hard to get a hold of, and welcome both a phone call or Skype or whatever. I also think it goes both ways..... while I'm happy to talk to someone and answer all of their questions, I'm weary of customers who only want to talk via text or email. In many circumstances there is reason for it, different language/timezone ect, but if your doing a transaction in the states, there's no reason not to pick up the phone and talk.

james272 31 December 2017 12:38 AM

Simple answer
 
I have said this before and I will say it again. NEVER WIRE MONEY TO ANYONE, you are assuming all the risk. You have little to no recourse to get it back if the deal does not happen. Its an easy scam to pull off. I do not care who you are or how trusted you or anyone else says you are I will NEVER wire you money period! If a seller does not trust sending you the watch before you send money, then why should you trust them and send them a wire before they send a watch? YOU DONT WIRE MONEY TO AMAZON? Do you? I am sorry but I am going to have some protection on my side in the event of a scam or bad deal. Those that think the buyer should assume all the risk are foolish. If a seller will only deal with a wire, move on find a better seller that is affording you some protection.

Being a pledge member on here means NOTHING! Except you sent some money to be able to sell or in this case SCAM someone.
roaddog359 is offline Report Post

This is the simple answer- I donít care about the references and all the ďanswersĒ to find a trust worthy seller- wasting your time! Just DONíT wire transfer to anyone! If you donít personally know them - you protect yourself by using cc and pay pal or trusted seller on Chrono. Here is a great test - when seller insists on wire- tell them to send you the watch and the instant you receive it you will wire the funds- ha! See how that works! Donít be foolish. Sadly, the op simply lost his 7 grand, he wonít get it back! Now are you fellow watch enthusiasts going to learn from his sad experience??? Donít wire funds ! Sincerely James in SA

tbonesteak 31 December 2017 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by james272 (Post 8147706)
I have said this before and I will say it again. NEVER WIRE MONEY TO ANYONE, you are assuming all the risk. You have little to no recourse to get it back if the deal does not happen. Its an easy scam to pull off. I do not care who you are or how trusted you or anyone else says you are I will NEVER wire you money period! If a seller does not trust sending you the watch before you send money, then why should you trust them and send them a wire before they send a watch? YOU DONT WIRE MONEY TO AMAZON? Do you? I am sorry but I am going to have some protection on my side in the event of a scam or bad deal. Those that think the buyer should assume all the risk are foolish. If a seller will only deal with a wire, move on find a better seller that is affording you some protection.

Being a pledge member on here means NOTHING! Except you sent some money to be able to sell or in this case SCAM someone.
roaddog359 is offline Report Post

This is the simple answer- I donít care about the references and all the ďanswersĒ to find a trust worthy seller- wasting your time! Just DONíT wire transfer to anyone! If you donít personally know them - you protect yourself by using cc and pay pal or trusted seller on Chrono. Here is a great test - when seller insists on wire- tell them to send you the watch and the instant you receive it you will wire the funds- ha! See how that works! Donít be foolish. Sadly, the op simply lost his 7 grand, he wonít get it back! Now are you fellow watch enthusiasts going to learn from his sad experience??? Donít wire funds ! Sincerely James in SA

Obviously nobody will ever send the merchandise before funds received, youíre just wasting someoneís time even reaching out with these terms... Iím extremely cautious, but after Iíve done enough DD, Iíd wire money. For every thread like this, Iíd bet there are 1000ís upon 1000ís of successful transactions on this board with both parties happy. OP even admits not doing enough DD. It sucks and I feel bad for anyone that gets scammed, but Iíd bet the overwhelming amount of the time, had they taken a few extra steps, it couldíve been avoided.

GB-man 2 January 2018 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by james272 (Post 8147706)
I have said this before and I will say it again. NEVER WIRE MONEY TO ANYONE, you are assuming all the risk. You have little to no recourse to get it back if the deal does not happen. Its an easy scam to pull off. I do not care who you are or how trusted you or anyone else says you are I will NEVER wire you money period! If a seller does not trust sending you the watch before you send money, then why should you trust them and send them a wire before they send a watch? YOU DONT WIRE MONEY TO AMAZON? Do you? I am sorry but I am going to have some protection on my side in the event of a scam or bad deal. Those that think the buyer should assume all the risk are foolish. If a seller will only deal with a wire, move on find a better seller that is affording you some protection.

Being a pledge member on here means NOTHING! Except you sent some money to be able to sell or in this case SCAM someone.
roaddog359 is offline Report Post

This is the simple answer- I donít care about the references and all the ďanswersĒ to find a trust worthy seller- wasting your time! Just DONíT wire transfer to anyone! If you donít personally know them - you protect yourself by using cc and pay pal or trusted seller on Chrono. Here is a great test - when seller insists on wire- tell them to send you the watch and the instant you receive it you will wire the funds- ha! See how that works! Donít be foolish. Sadly, the op simply lost his 7 grand, he wonít get it back! Now are you fellow watch enthusiasts going to learn from his sad experience??? Donít wire funds ! Sincerely James in SA

If you feel that way you are best off just dealing with ADs and your credit card. Nobody delivers goods without payment first. Selling a watch is much scarier than buying one because the buyers come to you out of the woodwork and typically have a low post count and little to no reputation whatsoever. :2:

TempoKing 2 January 2018 12:05 PM

Back in 2008 when I first became a TRF member I did send - watches first - to 3-4 buyers.
Never lost a watch - but I insisted in sending at their place of work - I felt that checking
them out was easier -

jvmartin 2 January 2018 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GB-man (Post 8154405)
If you feel that way you are best off just dealing with ADs and your credit card. Nobody delivers goods without payment first. Selling a watch is much scarier than buying one because the buyers come to you out of the woodwork and typically have a low post count and little to no reputation whatsoever. :2:

Absolutely right... the majority of my sales have been to people who have created a TRF account within the last month and/or have 0 posts/feedback... there are a ton of scams sellers have to be on top of as well... from fake bills to fraudulent chargebacks... best recommendation for a buyer is deal only with people who have an established history and when in any kind of doubt, walk away... if you feel compelled to buy from someone with a low post count or minimal selling history, establish an identity first and make sure they have something to lose...

vincenzowl 3 January 2018 06:40 AM

Just read through this whole thread. Terrible, sorry to hear the op and the other member. Hopefully it can get resolved. I feel most of the due diligence should fall on the buyer. If the seller is not a trusted seller on this forum, the buyer needs to go through all the steps necessary to authenticate.

zaydans 3 January 2018 11:22 AM

Sorry to hear about this and really frustrating that these scumbags lurk the forums looking for victims. That being said this is the main reason the only person I will ever wire money to is DavidSW. Always buy the seller.

Mb8780 3 January 2018 12:12 PM

This happened to me in March of last year from a scammer on a different site. Same deal. Eventually Wells Fargo got some of my money back. (Paid $5400 for a 114060) I ended up getting 2700 back in August after all the run around. Letís just say Iím very very careful now and usually just buy from my AD.

Mike


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Tony64 3 January 2018 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mb8780 (Post 8156801)
This happened to me in March of last year from a scammer on a different site. Same deal. Eventually Wells Fargo got some of my money back. (Paid $5400 for a 114060) I ended up getting 2700 back in August after all the run around. Letís just say Iím very very careful now and usually just buy from my AD.

Mike


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Curious, if you don't mind my asking, but how were you able to get a partial refund of your money? I assumed it would have been refunded in full or not at all. Sadly, most often the later.

Was the scammer able to make a partial restitution and off the hook for the rest?

datejust24 3 January 2018 03:10 PM

Absolutely awful OP....Hope this all gets straightened out....What kind of dick does something like this?

crazymcmichael 4 January 2018 01:35 AM

what a terrible story..... hate this kind of ''lowball people''

locutus49 4 January 2018 02:13 AM

You are new so I will cut you some slack, but your post is absurd. I have wired money to people for watches and will do so in the future. Please don't generalize. And please don't give orders to all of TRF. You have no authority to do so. :cheers:

Quote:

Originally Posted by james272 (Post 8147706)
I have said this before and I will say it again. NEVER WIRE MONEY TO ANYONE, you are assuming all the risk. You have little to no recourse to get it back if the deal does not happen. Its an easy scam to pull off. I do not care who you are or how trusted you or anyone else says you are I will NEVER wire you money period! If a seller does not trust sending you the watch before you send money, then why should you trust them and send them a wire before they send a watch? YOU DONT WIRE MONEY TO AMAZON? Do you? I am sorry but I am going to have some protection on my side in the event of a scam or bad deal. Those that think the buyer should assume all the risk are foolish. If a seller will only deal with a wire, move on find a better seller that is affording you some protection.

Being a pledge member on here means NOTHING! Except you sent some money to be able to sell or in this case SCAM someone.
roaddog359 is offline Report Post

This is the simple answer- I donít care about the references and all the ďanswersĒ to find a trust worthy seller- wasting your time! Just DONíT wire transfer to anyone! If you donít personally know them - you protect yourself by using cc and pay pal or trusted seller on Chrono. Here is a great test - when seller insists on wire- tell them to send you the watch and the instant you receive it you will wire the funds- ha! See how that works! Donít be foolish. Sadly, the op simply lost his 7 grand, he wonít get it back! Now are you fellow watch enthusiasts going to learn from his sad experience??? Donít wire funds ! Sincerely James in SA


hsfrank 4 January 2018 06:22 AM

The term is “buyer beware” not seller beware. If the seller gets scammed or loses money it is a cost of doing business. He can then pass that on to other buyers as higher prices if he chooses to do so. The buyer has no similar remedy. Thus it behooves a buyer to do more due diligence than a seller might.

imperio 4 January 2018 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hsfrank (Post 8158384)
The term is ďbuyer bewareĒ not seller beware. If the seller gets scammed or loses money it is a cost of doing business. He can then pass that on to other buyers as higher prices if he chooses to do so. The buyer has no similar remedy. Thus it behooves a buyer to do more due diligence than a seller might.



Hmm. When I sell items worth large dollar amounts I tend to do my DD on the buyer too.


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