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-   -   New Submariner Movement Issue? (https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=562681)

JustBlueFish 3 October 2017 07:13 AM

New Submariner Movement Issue?
 
I just picked up a NIB Rolex Submariner 116610ln from the local AD on this past Thursday. I'm a little concerned that I have some problems with my watches movement and wanted to ask if anyone with more knowledge on this subject could help me.

I have an inexpensive No. 1000 timegrapher and when I put the Sub on I get the following graph. The bottom line of the graph has a lot of off beats or jitters. Honestly I don't know the correct terminology to describe what is happening, and I'm not really sure what the cause is.

That said I put my Seiko SKX007 on their and took a picture of that, just to illustrate that it's not the microphone or machine. I consistently get these types of graphs with this new Rolex and I get a nice clean graph with my Seiko.

What could be the cause, should I be concerned, and how should I proceed?



https://s1.postimg.org/2dplflu0f3/timergraphs.jpg

The Libertine 3 October 2017 07:18 AM

Can’t explain the “off beats” but it otherwise appears consistent at +3, which is good.

Ian Macdermott 3 October 2017 07:20 AM

Is the new Watch keeping accurate time and running well. ?


If so I would not worry. :thinking:

JustBlueFish 3 October 2017 07:26 AM

On the wrist the watch is running about +4 to 5 seconds per day since I've had it. A little faster than I would prefer. But my main concern is the sloppy graph showing all those beat errors, or jitters, or whatever it's called. That seems like a problem.

My previous Rolex Explorer had a smooth clean graph with no errors in beat.

Annan 3 October 2017 07:55 AM

Had a similar experience with a DJ once. A local watchmaker checked it on his timegrapher for me and it showed a similar pattern as yours. He advised me it indicated low amplitude and to send it to RSC. RSC fixed it under warranty but the only feedback was "checked movement". Whatever they did it ran great afterward.

JustBlueFish 3 October 2017 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annan (Post 7941580)
Had a similar experience with a DJ once. A local watchmaker checked it on his timegrapher for me and it showed a similar pattern as yours. He advised me it indicated low amplitude and to send it to RSC. RSC fixed it under warranty but the only feedback was "checked movement". Whatever they did it ran great afterward.



Iím not keen on sending a watch in for repair Iíve owned for 4days, and not having it for weeks and weeks, but Iím guessing the AD wonít replace it. Kind of bummed right now.


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Annan 3 October 2017 08:15 AM

Yes.....I'd be reluctant to send it in so soon too. At +4-5s/day the accuracy is not that bad however it's not at the current Rolex specs of -2/+2. I would simply keep an eye on the accuracy for perhaps a month or so and see if things change, including the graph.

Bigblu10 3 October 2017 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustBlueFish (Post 7941595)
Iím not keen on sending a watch in for repair Iíve owned for 4days, and not having it for weeks and weeks, but Iím guessing the AD wonít replace it. Kind of bummed right now.


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Why not just wear it? If it is consistent +4 a day, there is nothing wrong with that. No offense, but you seem to be looking for a problem that just isn't there. Put away the timegrapher and enjoy your new watch. Chances are if you have it re-regulated it may come back even worse, or running slow.

Brny11 3 October 2017 08:24 AM

Rolex are all the least consistent off all I have owned. I have a different issue with the attached graph. The watch is ridiculously accurate with questionable consistency.

If yours is keeping consistent time, I think you are okay. If you have a local watch maker, you can have them put it on a timer and get their opinion without opening it up.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...96d169b655.jpg


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JustBlueFish 3 October 2017 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigblu10 (Post 7941627)
Why not just wear it? If it is consistent +4 a day, there is nothing wrong with that. No offense, but you seem to be looking for a problem that just isn't there. Put away the timegrapher and enjoy your new watch. Chances are if you have it re-regulated it may come back even worse, or running slow.



No offense, but to me this is like making the argument that your new corvette is only firing on 7 cylinders but it still drives better than most cars, just enjoy it.




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The Libertine 3 October 2017 09:09 AM

These are your choices:

Leave well enough alone (majority view);

Send to RSC, it is under warranty;or,

Take it to an independent watch repair shop.

No way that the AD will buy it back.

Likestheshiny 3 October 2017 10:51 AM

It either bothers you enough to send it in for warranty work, or it doesn't. There's not a whole lot else to it, really.

I'd personally wait a few weeks, and if it's still happening I'd send it in. But then, I took in a watch that was -1.5spd just because it was slow rather than fast. Since it was out of spec in one position, they agreed to fix it, and it came back +1.5-ish. Admittedly, I had an RSC within walking distance.

run23 3 October 2017 11:00 AM

New Submariner Movement Issue?
 
Ask for a new watch. Rolex advertises +/-2 per day, and that graph probably shouldn't be jumping around (although I'm no expert and could be wrong). Be firm about not having it sent in for repair as you shouldn't spend $7,000+ for something and not have it work right out of the box. I've learned he hard way to fix a problem with any new thing right away because it's not going to get better.

I'm a little surprised at how blasť people are about a relatively expensive watch not running as advertised. Yes, accuracy for a mechanical isn't that important (and 4 or 5 seconds per day is very good), but Rolex needs to stand behind the claims it is making about its product, assuming this is one of the watches that is supposed to run at +/-2.

wyatt 3 October 2017 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justbluefish (Post 7941661)
no offense, but to me this is like making the argument that your new corvette is only firing on 7 cylinders but it still drives better than most cars, just enjoy it.

+1

No SUBctitute 3 October 2017 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustBlueFish (Post 7941519)
On the wrist the watch is running about +4 to 5 seconds per day since I've had it.

Rolex advertises +2/-2. Your watch is more than double that. I would take it back to the AD and politely ask for a new watch as they did not deliver to you what was promised (a watch running +2/-2). Only a new watch delivered to you with the promised specs is acceptable.

The watch did not subsequently develop a problem under warranty after purchase, the watch was delivered to you with a problem. If Rolex isn't held to the standard promised then its QC will not get any better.

No SUBctitute 3 October 2017 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by run23 (Post 7941970)
I'm a little surprised at how blasť people are about a relatively expensive watch not running as advertised. Yes, accuracy for a mechanical isn't that important (and 4 or 5 seconds per day is very good), but Rolex needs to stand behind the claims it is making about its product, assuming this is one of the watches that is supposed to run at +/-2.

Agreed! I would think Rolex aficionados would at least expect Rolex to deliver what is promised. I would not wear a BNIB modern Rolex and find +4 seconds per day acceptable. I can spend a lot less money for something that gains 4 seconds per day.

ZOOK 3 October 2017 12:07 PM

You payed a premium to Rolex and the AD for that watch. If it is not performing as guaranteed, you should make them aware of the problem now and expect them to take care of you.

JustBlueFish 3 October 2017 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZOOK (Post 7942204)
You payed a premium to Rolex and the AD for that watch. If it is not performing as guaranteed, you should make them aware of the problem now and expect them to take care of you.



I'll visit the AD today and see what they're willing to do. I expect all I'll get is the offer to send it to Rolex for warranty service but maybe there's something else that can be done.


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padi56 3 October 2017 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustBlueFish (Post 7941486)
I just picked up a NIB Rolex Submariner 116610ln from the local AD on this past Thursday. I'm a little concerned that I have some problems with my watches movement and wanted to ask if anyone with more knowledge on this subject could help me.

I have an inexpensive No. 1000 timegrapher and when I put the Sub on I get the following graph. The bottom line of the graph has a lot of off beats or jitters. Honestly I don't know the correct terminology to describe what is happening, and I'm not really sure what the cause is.

That said I put my Seiko SKX007 on their and took a picture of that, just to illustrate that it's not the microphone or machine. I consistently get these types of graphs with this new Rolex and I get a nice clean graph with my Seiko.

What could be the cause, should I be concerned, and how should I proceed?



https://s1.postimg.org/2dplflu0f3/timergraphs.jpg

Was the test done on a full manual wind with a mainspring at max power-reserve.

peterskinner 3 October 2017 10:04 PM

Where do Rolex guarantee that the watch will be plus or minus two seconds on the wrist ? What they actually say is that in automated tests, over 24 hours and using algorithms of typical usage, , the watch met those standards at the factory.
That's not quite the same. If Rolex wanted to guarantee precision on the wrist, they would say so, quite specifically. They hint at it, but that's all.
If you are unhappy with the watch, send it to be checked. I did, and there was a minor issue. You'l just have nagging doubts if you don't have it checked.

erhein 3 October 2017 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by padi56 (Post 7942904)
Was the test done on a full manual wind with a mainspring at max power-reserve.

This. :thumbsup: A full wind is very important with the Timegrapher.

mfletch 3 October 2017 10:16 PM

I'd vote to keep an eye on it for for a while before sending it to RSC. The day I received my
Sub, I placed it on the timegrapher and got a reading of -3sec/day. I was concerned because of course that's outside of specs. After daily wear for 2-3 weeks, it was reading -.5 to .6sec per day where it remains. I'm not sure if my initial measurements were on a partial wind or something but nonetheless it's fine now.

tyler1980 3 October 2017 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No SUBctitute (Post 7942121)
Rolex advertises +2/-2. Your watch is more than double that. I would take it back to the AD and politely ask for a new watch as they did not deliver to you what was promised (a watch running +2/-2). Only a new watch delivered to you with the promised specs is acceptable.

The watch did not subsequently develop a problem under warranty after purchase, the watch was delivered to you with a problem. If Rolex isn't held to the standard promised then its QC will not get any better.

probably get flamed for this but i think of it as the watch is capable of +2/-2 not that every one will get that rate, as there are a lot of variables which causes variations. If my car is advertised as 30MPG and i get 28MPG, the car isn't broken I'm just not using it in the exact same conditions the tests were conducted in. If its close then I am happy. OP's watch did function at +2/-2 before it left the factory its just not functioning at the same rate in the real world.

Double the rate sounds a bit misleading when looking at the number of seconds in a day. Its 4 seconds per day off instead of 2 out of 86,400 seconds.

JustBlueFish 3 October 2017 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by padi56 (Post 7942904)
Was the test done on a full manual wind with a mainspring at max power-reserve.



Yes it was fully wound.

Also folks are focusing far to much on the issue of the daily rate being off a few seconds. Sure it's not ideal but what I'm concerned about is the jittery lines on the graph.

I'm not a watch maker but I believe this is indicative of a problem with the movement. Perhaps a problem with the pallet fork or hairspring? I'm not entirely sure, but I'm fairly sure it's out of beat and something is wrong.

That's why I started this thread to see if anyone more knowledgeable can diagnose that.


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Johny 3 October 2017 10:51 PM

Hi OP.

Take it back and let us know how you got on. :thumbsup:

Bigblu10 4 October 2017 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustBlueFish (Post 7942980)
Yes it was fully wound.

Also folks are focusing far to much on the issue of the daily rate being off a few seconds. Sure it's not ideal but what I'm concerned about is the jittery lines on the graph.

I'm not a watch maker but I believe this is indicative of a problem with the movement. Perhaps a problem with the pallet fork or hairspring? I'm not entirely sure, but I'm fairly sure it's out of beat and something is wrong.

That's why I started this thread to see if anyone more knowledgeable can diagnose that.


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Reach out to user VanessaCW21. She is the real deal here. CW21 watchmaker

dcash0615 4 October 2017 12:49 AM

Do this. Better to be safe than sorry later. Plus this will put your mind at ease. Good luck.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigblu10 (Post 7943209)
Reach out to user VanessaCW21. She is the real deal here. CW21 watchmaker


JustBlueFish 4 October 2017 04:12 AM

I went back to the AD today with my timegrapher data and explained the situation. They agreed it didn't look right and that I shouldn't have to wait for warranty service/repair, so they replaced the watch for me with a new one.

This is my 2nd purchase from this AD and while I've always felt good about their pre-sale service, I can now say their post sale service is also second to none.

Here's a side by side comparison of the original Submariner on the timegrapher and the new one I picked up today. It looks like a marked improvement.



https://s1.postimg.org/4cpvmp171r/timergraphs2.jpg

ZOOK 4 October 2017 04:18 AM

Glad to hear you got this resolved and the AD took care of you. That should keep you going back to them.

themast 4 October 2017 04:21 AM

Glad things got resolved to your liking.

New watch seems way too good, I would be concerned!!! ahah


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