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-   -   Need advice - buyer claims watch received fake (https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=565066)

roach7 16 October 2017 12:27 PM

Need advice - buyer claims watch received fake
 
Hi,
I recently shipped a brand new Tudor BB to a buyer in Australia and now 2 weeks later he's filing a PayPal claim stating that the serial # of the watch received did not match the one on the card. The he claimed that he took it to Rolex and they told him it's a fake. He proceeded to file a PayPal claim and now the funds are being held while the investigation takes place...

Has any seller here encountered such a scam?

Any advice on how I need to proceed with this so PayPal doesn't side with this scammer?

Thanks in advance!

GLADIATOR 16 October 2017 01:00 PM

Brand New?
You should have some evidence of purchase, credit card receipt, evidence from the AD??

roach7 16 October 2017 01:03 PM

Yes, I have the bill of sales from the AD... what if the buyer says I kept the real one and sent him the fake? I did not video tape the packing of the shipment and even if I did I've heard such video evidence is useless against claims like this.

GLADIATOR 16 October 2017 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roach7 (Post 7972887)
Yes, I have the bill of sales from the AD... what if the buyer says I kept the real one and sent him the fake? I did not video tape the packing of the shipment and even if I did I've heard such video evidence is useless against claims like this.

FIGHT, with the evidence you have
a package video is irrelevant, you can make that up as well.

Stand up and defend yourself with evidence from the AD, your purchase and your record with ebay!

csfischer20 16 October 2017 01:22 PM

That’s why I don’t sell on eBay. My scammer managed to keep the watch, get a refund, and get me kicked off paypal because I wouldn’t give the money back since I never got the watch back. It was about 12 years ago on a 5500 airking. I hope they’ve changed, but I doubt it.

swatty 16 October 2017 01:53 PM

Where in Australia is this bloke ?

roach7 16 October 2017 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swatty (Post 7972936)
Where in Australia is this bloke ?

Melbourne

007timer 16 October 2017 02:08 PM

I have been on eBay for 16 years and now more than ever on high ticket items the scammers are using every tool at their disposal. I donít doubt you sent the real deal. I would provide the evidence and FIGHT it hard. If you show any doubt they will quickly make a decision to side with the buyer. Being scammers they know how to game the system. The truth is on your side. Now you just need to put up a fight and prove it.

roach7 16 October 2017 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 007timer (Post 7972956)
I have been on eBay for 16 years and now more than ever on high ticket items the scammers are using every tool at their disposal. I donít doubt you sent the real deal. I would provide the evidence and FIGHT it hard. If you show any doubt they will quickly make a decision to side with the buyer. Being scammers they know how to game the system. The truth is on your side. Now you just need to put up a fight and prove it.

Yes, something smells fishy when he files the claim and immediately escalates without even giving me a chance to dispute his claims.

roach7 16 October 2017 02:18 PM

This is what he wrote on the dispute:

Quote:

10/15/2017 21:34 EDT - Buyer: Hi.I have purchased this Tudor Black Bay from you recently and have been quite happy with the purchase, but some aspects of the quality and finishing bothered me (such as the rotating action of the bezel and the crown, it felt rusty and not smooth). I also noticed that the serial number engraved on the case of the watch did not match that of the number printed on the authenticity card. I started to suspect that this watch was a counterfeit and submitted it to Rolex Australia for an assessment and unfortunately regretfully informed me that the watch was a replica and not a genuine Tudor timepiece. Naturally, I am very upset about this and considering the huge amount of money I have spent on it, I would like to receive a full refund for this purchase. Please see attached pictures of all evidence. I will be waiting for correspondence from PayPal to find out what are the next steps in proceeding with this. I sincerely hope that you were not aware of this watch being counterfeit, and are not in the business of ripping people off intentionally, as that is very cruel.Peter

jvmartin 16 October 2017 03:11 PM

Exactly why some Trusted Sellers on TRF don't take Paypal... sorry to hear... unfortunately, this is likely not going to end in your favor... I would suggest making sure to thoroughly respond to every request for more information/documentation and call Paypal and see if you can speak to someone for further information on this case.. if you have a long history of selling and do significant business you MAY have a shot.

Chewbacca 16 October 2017 03:16 PM

sorry to hear.

PP will tell the buyer to send it back under either an eBay item not as described OR a PP dispute. the buyer has 2 options and 90 days. in fact, the buyer can return it up to 90 days for ANY reason. even if you state that you don't accept returns.

(from my own experience);

1) eBay will tell the seller, even without you knowing, to simply send the item back and they'll refund them with your funds in your account. (they can send a rock in a box and as long as its sent, ebay will assume they sent you the item.)

2) the refund ONLY happens IF you accept the delivery. with OR without a signature at deliver. UPS or FedEx or whatever can simply drop it off at your house and as long as it says it was 'delivered' the seller gets the money back.

3) WHATEVER you do, DO NOT open it unless you have a witness and a video recorder going. better yet, DO NOT accept it if you're there when it arrives. tell the driver you do NOT accept it. (the seller doesn't even need to post a tracking # to keep you in the loop.)

4) communicate ONLY via the resolution center message section. NO personal emails or texts. eBay will rely on their message center notes because any case worker can answer the call and they always need a few minutes to read it when you need their help.


this is a typical worst case eBay PP buyer fraud scenario, its rare, but when it happens, its a kick to the gut. without prejudice; if what you're describing is absolutely accurate, i really feel for you and know how you're feeling.


Hope it works out.


:cheers:

swatty 16 October 2017 04:54 PM

Would RSC in Melbourne confirm he took it there ?

MonBK 16 October 2017 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swatty (Post 7973122)
Would RSC in Melbourne confirm he took it there ?

I thought the same.

swatty 16 October 2017 05:03 PM

Thinking this through a bit more. Tudors can be bought here cheaper than from US sellers. ( Taking in consideration exchange rate). Think he is out to scam the seller.

blacklotus99 16 October 2017 05:11 PM

Long time lurker but wanted to ask, have you sighted the so-called evidence that he refers to in the dispute note? RSC melbourne documents everything so I would imagine if he genuinely took it there (which Im not sure you can anyway for verification) there would be a document trail.

Any genuine buyer would have picked up the phone if there was an issue and you would have worked it out that way.

Having lost thousands of $ to scammers in watch transactions I sympathise. If you're unable to resolve this, PM me as I may have some local options for you.

roach7 16 October 2017 05:44 PM

I was going to email him and ask him to show me the so called evidence he's posted. I do not see such in the PayPal dispute itself. I'm going to call PayPal tomorrow and see what the claims agent says. I have sold hundreds of Tudors in the past so hopefully that's says something...

roach7 16 October 2017 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swatty (Post 7973122)
Would RSC in Melbourne confirm he took it there ?

I thought Rolex will confiscate the watch if you brought in a fake?

afnios1 16 October 2017 05:47 PM

rsc in Melbourne will confirm as the buyer ,probably,brought them a fake watch he had[not the one he bought].You can keep eyes on him,as he will try to sell the good one soon and there you can catch him.If he return anything to you WITHOUT a need of a signature then you have to play ''dirty'' and claim that you never ever got any return.Hope that you can make it,so sorry this happened to you.

GLADIATOR 16 October 2017 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roach7 (Post 7973160)
I thought Rolex will confiscate the watch if you brought in a fake?

Nope. That's a myth.
They issue an official letter stating its counterfeit, and do you want it back or scrapped.
I have such a letter if OP needs as evidence.

OP. Demand via Paypal to see all buyers evidence. .
Ps it takes about two weeks for Rolex to respond?
A

MonBK 16 October 2017 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afnios1 (Post 7973163)
rsc in Melbourne will confirm as the buyer ,probably,brought them a fake watch he had[not the one he bought].You can keep eyes on him,as he will try to sell the good one soon and there you can catch him.If he return anything to you WITHOUT a need of a signature then you have to play ''dirty'' and claim that you never ever got any return.Hope that you can make it,so sorry this happened to you.

I seriously doubt that a scumbag scammer would go through this trouble.

Next step for me would be to try to find out if this really happened.

Kostas 16 October 2017 06:48 PM

Good luck man , hate it when scumbags pull stunts like this.

Definitely see the evidence , he could have sent PayPal a fake authenticity paper from Rolex

I'm in Sydney but if you find out in anyway I can help let me know , it's only a short flight to Melb !

yannis 16 October 2017 07:41 PM

blacklotus99, Kostas and Mon above make perfect sense maybe this is your key to win this dispute over this scammer. Such a pity, these Paypal policies...

Knappo 1307 17 October 2017 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roach7 (Post 7972833)
Hi,
I recently shipped a brand new Tudor BB to a buyer in Australia and now 2 weeks later he's filing a PayPal claim stating that the serial # of the watch received did not match the one on the card. The he claimed that he took it to Rolex and they told him it's a fake. He proceeded to file a PayPal claim and now the funds are being held while the investigation takes place...

Has any seller here encountered such a scam?

Any advice on how I need to proceed with this so PayPal doesn't side with this scammer?

Thanks in advance!

Henry, did you sell the watch on TRF, or elsewhere? If here or elsewhere, let us know the persons name...

roach7 17 October 2017 12:26 AM

The watch was sold on eBay to mrprada92 (Peter Kryvonosov)

Chewbacca 17 October 2017 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swatty (Post 7973122)
Would RSC in Melbourne confirm he took it there ?

Would likely depend on local privacy rules and Rolex Oz policy.

From my experience, you'd have to open a fraud case with the local police and then they would investigate on the sellers request.

Should also assume the buyer may be reading these posts.

Maybe the OP should mention whether the buyer is a high transaction count ebayer and also PM their user name. There may be a pattern if they're pros.

Chewbacca 17 October 2017 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roach7 (Post 7973664)
The watch was sold on eBay to mrprada92 (Peter Kryvonosov)

:thumbsup:

Knappo 1307 17 October 2017 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roach7 (Post 7973664)
The watch was sold on eBay to mrprada92 (Peter Kryvonosov)

Thanks..

yxc145 17 October 2017 12:49 AM

Here is my personal experience.
I sold a cellphone on Ebay.
2 weeks after delivery, buyer contact me claiming the phone was damaged. All I had were pictures of the phone. I knew I shipped him a good phone. But really no way to prove it. Ebay even told me that they will always favor the buyer under their Money Back Guarantee. So, Ebay asked the buyer to ship the phone back to me. They took the fund out of my Paypal account to refund the buyer and charged me for return shipping. I did not get a tracking number till 10 days later. And here comes the interesting part. When I got the package. It was an empty phone box with only ear piece and the charging plus. Buyer even removed the sticker with serial number and IMEI on the phone box. That's when I know he was definitely a scammer.
Luckily, Ebay also has a seller protection. I reported to Ebay that buyer sent an empty box. So Ebay pay me back out of their own pocket. But this is one time only and they did not refund me the return shipping.

If your watch was indeed sold on Ebay, I think it is going to be hard to win the case. 1. No proof that you shipped the watch with the serial number matching the warranty card. 2. Since the buyer used the "no matching serial numbers" claim against you, he/she can send back a fake watch and said that's the watch you sent. Unless he/she is dumb enough to not send anything back. Then you may able to file a case against the buyer. Ebay really is not a safe place to sell high price items.

yxc145 17 October 2017 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csfischer20 (Post 7972905)
Thatís why I donít sell on eBay. My scammer managed to keep the watch, get a refund, and get me kicked off paypal because I wouldnít give the money back since I never got the watch back. It was about 12 years ago on a 5500 airking. I hope theyíve changed, but I doubt it.

There is Ebay seller protection. if you never got a tracking number or receive an empty box. They will do a one time refund.


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