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Originally Posted by charger_vital
ALS reportedly used slave labor. They weren’t just around making stuff that was used for the war machine. So you can’t use the analogy of other companies who just tangentially involved. ALS was balls deep.
And the only reason “past sins” are being talked about is because the question on this thread is whether ALS should be trinity. The question is not whether ALS are good watches (they are if you like their style). But Trinity is about history just as much as it’s about watch quality. So history is relevant and rightfully considered.
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Current ALS is not the same ALS that was around during WWII. The direct descendent of ALS pre-war into the post-war period is GO.
Almost every German company during WWII used slave labor, and yes, some companies who we praise and laud today. Some went very far and extreme with this captive labor force, although all of the use was horrible and criminal.
Yet the other manufacturers I mentioned actually made machines and weapons designed to kill people, including civilians. Bayer was responsible for the gasses and poisons used to kill millions of Jews and other "undesireables". Sp where do you draw the line? Is MB still the car "engineered like no other in the world"? Is Porsche still the "ultimate driving machine"? Do you take Bayer products to treat a headache?
Clearly, some seem to make exceptions depending on what product we are talking about, but that seems a bit hypocritical or disingenuous.
And let's not think the Swiss had clean hands in any of this. They were complicit in the financing of the war machines, and took deposits of stolen, looted, and confiscated property from Jews by Nazis. So the moral argument is a bit specious. JLC and IWC supplied watches to the Nazis as well. I'm sure they made a pretty penny.
But going back to the context of watches, to put past war history as a factor in not putting ALS into the "holy" trinity of watches seems a bit "narrow" to put it charitably.
In terms of breath of product line, again, what does that mean? Was that a criteria to be in the Holy Trinity? I don't think VC, Patek, and AP were that much into sports watches until the 70's, and yet they were considered Holy Trinity way before that.
In fact, they were originally deemed Holy Trinity almost solely because of their dress watches and complications and craftsmanship. Seems like the same recipe ALS has been focusing on since their relaunch.
The criteria always seems to be changing....largely to make the category impossible to include anyone else but Patek, VC, and AP.
The fact it, it's a marketing tool.....something that Patek, VC and AP perpetuate, although VC has become the Overseas company and AP the Royal Oak company.....not much variety there in my opinion. Patek is the only really diversified high-horology manufacturer, and even then, I think the Nautilus and Aquanaut have largely reigned supreme in their lineup.
Actually, I think most people don't give a rat's a** about Holy Trinity.