[madmax21]

Originally Posted by CRM114

Is luxury when it comes to watches a standard of quality? Or is luxury what marketing told you it is and how successful that marketing is at separating you from the greatest amount of your money as possible?

In the end the supposed Seiko stigma you've described is due in large part to a cultural divide, unawareness of history and purpose, and differences in marketing that results in brand-name conditioning.

Grand Seiko's studios have a 55-year history of making watches, and their luxury-level fit and finish standards have never been in question for those who've been aware of them. After their inception back then they quickly began to match and then beat the Swiss in the accuracy department as well (Observatory tests) so the idea that Seiko "has come a long way" as far as making superior product was put to bed before most of us around here were born to learning to tell time.

Which was and is the entire point of Grand Seiko in the first place; to showcase the Company's watchmaking ability and skills in artistry, workmanship, and technology. That's the reason why they didn't brand them as something else as some like yourself who believe there's a stigma to the Seiko (and therefore think it was some kind of marketing mistake on their part). On the contrary, the Grand Seiko studios and their output were, and are, a matter of Company pride. Chalk it up to cultural differences when it comes to marketing something, but they WANT people to know they are part of Seiko, and the people they primarily wanted to know were primarily those they were selling them to. Grand Seiko (or Credor) never existed for the purpose of flooding the world-wide marketplace and selling as many units as they could. That's what the rest of Seiko does. That's what Rolex does.

That's where the stigma borne of unawareness comes in. Until recently (meaning about 5 years ago), almost every one of the 5 - 10,000 Grand Seikos produced yearly up until then were gobbled-up domestically in Japan or in the other few Asian locales they were sold. Outside that limited market most didn't know a thing about them for 50 of the 55 years they've been around existing as a superior, luxury watch.

The others definitely feigning unawareness was the Swiss luxury watch-making industry. By the late 60's stock Grand Seiko's were beating their tweaked Swiss movements offered for accuracy testing left and right. This was the reason behind the Swiss circling the wagons and creating the looser, but (most importantly) Swiss-only COSC standard of accuracy they rely on now.

The Swiss couldn't stand that anyone else could be, as you put it, "bringing something big to the table" and so their response was to essentially create their own private club and tables and continue marketing the hell out of their products using celebrities and movie placement deals.

Grand Seiko is expanding, if you want to call it that. It's yearly output of around 15K mechanical watches is still minuscule compared to the almost a million Rolexes or hundreds of thousands of Omegas, but at least their marketing still focuses on what makes them great; quality, workmanship, and precision. I don't need a fake movie spy (or the memory of a former one) telling me what's luxury or not.

Just go ahead and get one and see for yourself.

I will definitely take you up on it in fact I will be going by this week to a local dealer that sells GS. I know he's low on stock however I will see what he has and pick one up. I will also post pictures to show you it. I will wear the watch for a month after that I will give you an honest review on it. I will be set on comfort quality, fit and finish and with any luxury items how it makes me feel wearing it.
It will be honest and unbiased. I look forward to sending pictures and my review.