Hello Peters! Question on ADs...

[MRBolton]

Originally Posted by abrosz

I returned every god damn piece of jewelry and the Patek complication for every single cent back. The mere threat of the lawsuit was enough. I had them dead to rights with my documentation of direct messages and text messages, and they knew it.

I honestly believe that Patek is fully aware of this behavior and to a certain extent directs it. A couple of these hucksters told me, "PATEK WANTS YOU to take a journey of the brand," and, "we kept our dealership because we do EVERYTHING that Patek asks of us." Its also pretty clear the ADs are sitting on a bunch of Calatravas and stuff that doesn't move, and this is their way of trying to sell it. Pretty shady stuff. Just be sure to ask a lot of questions and document your interactions in case things go south.

I love this. I don't know why Patek produces so many watches that are so undesirable generally that people are only buying them at retail to lead to something else. It's such a racket.

That being said--did the AD express why they couldn't just proceed with selling you the 5726a? Again, I have to imagine that would've been a more favorable outcome to them than instead of having $73k of merchandise returned to them.

[abrosz]

Originally Posted by MRBolton

I love this. I don't know why Patek produces so many watches that are so undesirable generally that people are only buying them at retail to lead to something else. It's such a racket.

That being said--did the AD express why they couldn't just proceed with selling you the 5726a? Again, I have to imagine that would've been a more favorable outcome to them than instead of having $73k of merchandise returned to them.

No reason given. I offered them the opportunity to either sell me the 5726a as I requested or take all the merchandise back. They opted for the latter. No explanation given, though I suspect it is because this all went down early in 2024 and they didn't know what their allocation for the year was going to be. This is only speculation, though.

Fine with me. I purchased a preowned 2016 model from SoHAIS and haven't looked back. The premium I paid was far less than the BS this AD was going to put me through. Moral of the story is go gray. Pretty much everything other than the Nautilus/Aquanaut models are going at or below retail on secondary market, and the AD premium to purchase either far exceeds the secondary market premium. Just save up a bit longer and purchase gray. You'll probably spend less in the long run.

[FrançoisCzapek]

Could I ask if it was the attorney that made the difference and a written demand from an attorney made them cut their losses and disengage from someone who would actually start something in court regardless of the merits?

Did you have anything in writing about the bait and switch to wave in front of them while negotiating this?

Respect for actually bringing in an attorney, though I might not do the same!

[abrosz]

Originally Posted by FrançoisCzapek

Could I ask if it was the attorney that made the difference and a written demand from an attorney made them cut their losses and disengage from someone who would actually start something in court regardless of the merits?

Did you have anything in writing about the bait and switch to wave in front of them while negotiating this?

Respect for actually bringing in an attorney, though I might not do the same!

No idea their rationale. I simply told them that I had consulted with my attorney and referred them back to the DM wherein I told them I didn’t want to hear from them if I had to “take a journey of the brand,” and buy things I don’t want for consideration and no guarantee. I cc’ed my attorney on every message to the dealer regarding who I talked to, when, what we discussed. I let them know I had passed all correspondence on to my attorney, especially the one where I refused to do business this way. This dealer’s watch manager called me himself to tell me this wasn’t how they do business after my message. My visit to the store was predicated on the assurance there was no pay-to-play, bait-and-switch games being played. They lied, pure and simple. My attorney didn’t have to a thing. Just seeing him cc’ed on all the correspondence, and having a pissed off customer telling them he was looking forward to dragging them and the brand into court to expose this fraud was enough. This all happened after Shreve in California. I referenced that lawsuit for my attorney and them as well because there were so many similarities. Were it not for that DM I think I would’ve been sunk. Document who you talk to, when, and what you discuss before even setting foot in the store.

[FrançoisCzapek]

Respect for having the presence of mind to execute this, and having a relationship with an attorney willing to be copied and presumably not formally paid for this.

[Calatrava r]

I am certain that they all do. What other business strategy makes any sense whatsoever.

[abrosz]

Originally Posted by FrançoisCzapek

Respect for having the presence of mind to execute this, and having a relationship with an attorney willing to be copied and presumably not formally paid for this.

Oh I paid him for his time and to be involved…. He just didn’t have to do much other than review my correspondence and make recommendations on how to return the merchandise. I made sure to let the AD know that I had the 5212 and jewelry inspected and documented by my local jeweler to ensure they didn’t come back and claim damages not present upon return.

For anyone thinking of doing business with a Patek dealer: Buyer Beware!

[FrançoisCzapek]

More respect! I thought you had a close enough relationship that he agreed to be copied and trusted this would not be abused.

[ts3]

Originally Posted by MRBolton

That being said--did the AD express why they couldn't just proceed with selling you the 5726a? Again, I have to imagine that would've been a more favorable outcome to them than instead of having $73k of merchandise returned to them.

Not sure. They will get some of the money back by reselling the preowned merchandise, probably a lot more than 50% given the $73k included a 5212a. On top they can sell a lot of stuff to another guy hoping for that 5726a and/or they can sell the 5726a out the back door and probably get half of the $73k on top of MSRP, assuming it is a 1A we are talking about.

[johnsonsxusfrt]

Originally Posted by ts3

Not sure. They will get some of the money back by reselling the preowned merchandise, probably a lot more than 50% given the $73k included a 5212a. On top they can sell a lot of stuff to another guy hoping for that 5726a and/or they can sell the 5726a out the back door and probably get half of the $73k on top of MSRP, assuming it is a 1A we are talking about.

this is what they do

[Bmats]

I guess that these watches are getting out there in the wild, as we see many in the uncut boxes the way Patek sends them to ADs. But when I got my Patek the AD had a multistep process where they were entering the information into the computer on Patek's site the same time they were filling out my paperwork. They were very careful.

So are these less honest ADs just entering in stalking horse buyers names?

[dauster]

Originally Posted by Divingdeep87

Seriously guys what will you do if you get 2 watches a year of a model and 1000 people who wants to buy it? It’s not easy being a AD sometimes. Sad but true.

Whatever don’t be an AD then. It’s also not easy being a customer service sales rep at Microsoft. I just bought a new car and the BS I had to go thru reminds me of all the AD non-sense. It’s just sales and if you want to make a buck as a dealer you gotta deal with disgruntled and demanding customers. Guess who is buying 30-500k trinkets that no one needs- that’s right mainly people that made a bunch of money and that are demanding !!!


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[Divingdeep87]

Originally Posted by dauster

Whatever don’t be an AD then. It’s also not easy being a customer service sales rep at Microsoft. I just bought a new car and the BS I had to go thru reminds me of all the AD non-sense. It’s just sales and if you want to make a buck as a dealer you gotta deal with disgruntled and demanding customers. Guess who is buying 30-500k trinkets that no one needs- that’s right mainly people that made a bunch of money and that are demanding !!!


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You didn’t answer the question? lol

[dauster]

Originally Posted by Divingdeep87

You didn’t answer the question? lol

lol I just wanted to rant a little on a Sunday


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[johnsonsxusfrt]

Originally Posted by dauster

lol I just wanted to rant a little on a Sunday


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it was a good rant, been there and sometimes it just needs to be said

[Crazywis]

Originally Posted by Bmats

I guess that these watches are getting out there in the wild, as we see many in the uncut boxes the way Patek sends them to ADs. But when I got my Patek the AD had a multistep process where they were entering the information into the computer on Patek's site the same time they were filling out my paperwork. They were very careful.

So are these less honest ADs just entering in stalking horse buyers names?

I have come across an AD who offered a new reference at retail and was willing to give a substantial discount if bought with someone else's name on the papers. This AD sold both new and pre-owned Patek's and is still an authorized Patek AD

This AD had a large recently dated unadvertised selection of pre-owned Patek's available for sale - both high demand and low demand references that you would inquire about and then out they'd come from the safe. The explanation usually given for why the original buyer let go of them so quickly was along the lines of them simply getting tired of the watch or them wanting a high complication like a MR and the AD wanting to help accelerate the journey towards that goal. You be the judge on who these original buyers were (or weren't)

[dauster]

Originally Posted by Crazywis

I have come across an AD who offered a new reference at retail and was willing to give a substantial discount if bought with someone else's name on the papers. This AD sold both new and pre-owned Patek's and is still an authorized Patek AD

This AD had a large recently dated unadvertised selection of pre-owned Patek's available for sale - both high demand and low demand references that you would inquire about and then out they'd come from the safe. The explanation usually given for why the original buyer let go of them so quickly was along the lines of them simply getting tired of the watch or them wanting a high complication like a MR and the AD wanting to help accelerate the journey towards that goal. You be the judge on who these original buyers were (or weren't)

i'd report this AD or take advantage of discount if you don't care about name on papers but then might as well go grey.

[321Forever]

Originally Posted by abrosz

Long story short, don't play these games. The AD is going to try to extract as much from you as it can get away with. While a Nautilus or Aquanaut is sold at a premium, the secondary market premium is going to be far lower than the premium the AD is going to try to extract from you. Be very careful dealing with this brand and its ADs.

Thank so much for sharing your story. It rings true with so much of the luxury goods world. -False scarcity. -Catering to narcissistic robber barons. -Made up brand histories. -Claiming lack of participation in these various schemes.

This is one of the few forums where the realities of the market are discussed along side the fanboy content. You're not going to see this story on any of the watch sites as they are "owned" by the brands. Thanks, RF!!

I made my PP purchases a decade ago, when demand was soft. I liked the brand better back then.

Again, thanks for the story.

[justdate]

Originally Posted by 321Forever

I made my PP purchases a decade ago, when demand was soft. I liked the brand better back then.

10 years ago, if you walked into a store ready to spend $50k on a watch, you were treated like a VVIP. Now you get treated like a PITA!

[MangoTree1]

Originally Posted by abrosz

I returned every god damn piece of jewelry and the Patek complication for every single cent back. The mere threat of the lawsuit was enough. I had them dead to rights with my documentation of direct messages and text messages, and they knew it.

I honestly believe that Patek is fully aware of this behavior and to a certain extent directs it. A couple of these hucksters told me, "PATEK WANTS YOU to take a journey of the brand," and, "we kept our dealership because we do EVERYTHING that Patek asks of us." Its also pretty clear the ADs are sitting on a bunch of Calatravas and stuff that doesn't move, and this is their way of trying to sell it. Pretty shady stuff. Just be sure to ask a lot of questions and document your interactions in case things go south.

Sorry, but to somebody with so little respect for Calatravas i wouldnt sell any PP!

[johnsonsxusfrt]

Originally Posted by MangoTree1

Sorry, but to somebody with so little respect for Calatravas i wouldnt sell any PP!

that's just a silly comment LOL!!

[Chiboy]

Wow, I didn’t read this thread until now because I didn’t understand the title. Very interesting!

I’m glad to be happy with one watch I love. Even though I’m Patek-curious, I’m fine with never navigating all this crap and never owning one. Same story with some Rolex ADs too, of course. Sucks a lot of fun out of this.