General thoughts on the 3970

[HauteHorlogerie]

Curious what people think of the 3970. It is by no means as illustrious as it's younger brother the 5970. But curious what people think of it in comparison to the 5270, 5970, 2499, 1518 ect....in some ways I feel like it's the black sheep of the family and the least desirable. The reason I ask is I feel it's amazing, the movement is great as we all know. The piston style pushers I prefer, the diameter and lugs and overall case is gorgeous.

I realize there are a LOT of them out there and a lot were produced. Even white metal black dial...

Thanks

[el1125]

It is a beautiful watch, but the size is too small for me.

[JorgeCCW]

Originally Posted by el1125

It is a beautiful watch, but the size is too small for me.

X2
36 mm is awfully small for me

[Chasseur]

For your pleasure

[HauteHorlogerie]

John thank you for those gorgeous shots! Fits your wrist perfectly....Well being that a aquanaut looks huge on my 6.5" wrist I'm pretty sure 36mm is fine for me. I wonder if I can find one to see in person soon. I'm strongly considering one sooner than later and they seem to be good value!

[myopiccoog]

I have a 7.5 wrist and I love my 3970. It is so classic/old school feel! Cosmetically it is my favorite because of its old look and feel. The best part of the watch is the case detail and round pushers. So classic! Technically not so much. The 5270 is in a different league.

I am now starting to appreciate smaller watches. There is a new trend globally to smaller watches as well. Especially given how soft the Asian markets are.

[HL65]

A great watch and love it! Clearly many were made and for a very long run so in terms of collectibility vs the 5970 it isn't in same category. They are of course collectible but the 5970 had a very short run in Patek terms. A great collection like my friend 's above would include a 3970, 5970 and 5270. In terms of aesthetics to me the 5970 is tops followed by 3970 and last but not least the 5270. While the new 5270 might be advanced technically over the others it lacks the looks for me and comes in last. One thing I can say is the Lemania movements took a long time to make and many hours of finishing which limited output compared to new movement which they can crank out much faster from what I have heard and read. In the end it all comes down to taste and opinions will vary from person to person. All will appeal to different people as any other reference or watch.

PS I will qualify 3970 comment by saying not all 3970's were created equal and one's like the black P above is quite rare and stunning as well of course. Also John's R is stunning!! For me though a 5970R is my grail watch and some day will be on my wrist!

[HauteHorlogerie]

Originally Posted by myopiccoog

I have a 7.5 wrist and I love my 3970. It is so classic/old school feel! Cosmetically it is my favorite because of its old look and feel. The best part of the watch is the case detail and round pushers. So classic! Technically not so much. The 5270 is in a different league.

I am now starting to appreciate smaller watches. There is a new trend globally to smaller watches as well. Especially given how soft the Asian markets are.

Great piece! Is that a G or a P? It's stunning!!!

Originally Posted by HL65

A great watch and love it! Clearly many were made and for a very long run so in terms of collectibility vs the 5970 it isn't in same category. They are of course collectible but the 5970 had a very short run in Patek terms. A great collection like my friend 's above would include a 3970, 5970 and 5270. In terms of aesthetics to me the 5970 is tops followed by 3970 and last but not least the 5270. While the new 5270 might be advanced technically over the others it lacks the looks for me and comes in last. One thing I can say is the Lemania movements took a long time to make and many hours of finishing which limited output compared to new movement which they can crank out much faster from what I have heard and read. In the end it all comes down to taste and opinions will vary from person to person. All will appeal to different people as any other reference or watch.

PS I will qualify 3970 comment by saying not all 3970's were created equal and one's like the black P above is quite rare and stunning as well of course.

Ken, thanks for the candid view. I agree with you on every point. The 5970P to me is perfect, but I just love this combination of complications and I have always liked smaller watches (ok ok I'm guilty of a panerai or two....) but yes great view. Thanks! I am starting to like the pusher design on the 3970 over the 5970 though....it's not as modern looking but something about them gets me as of late!

[HL65]

Originally Posted by HauteHorlogerie

Great piece! Is that a G or a P? It's

It's a P with original black dial not an easy find!

[myopiccoog]

Thanks! What Ken said it is a P. The exact reference is 3970P-020

When buying a 3970, you have to buy the right dial and metal combo or series for it to be a collectors piece given the long run time. Also hallmarks on the side of the lugs are rarer, especially on all 4 lugs. Large hallmarks are really rare.

[soundserious]

I love the watch and its a "relative" bargain in terms of pedigree and complications. Of course the 5970 is about the end-of-the-road when it comes to watches so can't compare these. I would love to own a 3970!

[HauteHorlogerie]

Originally Posted by myopiccoog

Thanks! What Ken said it is a P. The exact reference is 3970P-020

When buying a 3970, you have to buy the right dial and metal combo or series for it to be a collectors piece given the long run time. Also hallmarks on the side of the lugs are rarer, especially on all 4 lugs. Large hallmarks are really rare.

Thanks for the info guys! The hallmarks on the lugs are GORGEOUS from the photos I've seen.

[PP101]

I am trying to develop a collection of the XX70 models and would be interested to know both which are considered the most collectible versions of the 3970 and what the correct price for the different collectible models should be at the moment.

There are lots on Chrono24, but it is hard to make sense of the wildly different prices.

I imagine that this is a model where some real expertise is required to get a really good watch, but have no idea how to build that expertise given the vast geographical spread of the 'hard' product. Any pointers also greatly appreciated.

[lapince]

I love it except for the size, 36 is really small, would like it more in 38 at least

[mps354]

Beautiful watch

[lapince]

I prefer these pushers to the 5970 pushers, for me the best looking chrono PC piece is the 5204, but since it's a split seconds it costs an arm and a kidney...

[GB-man]

I'm no expert but I think it's beautiful and a bargain for those who have small wrists or prefer more classical proportions

[cinch]

Originally Posted by lapince

I prefer these pushers to the 5970 pushers, for me the best looking chrono PC piece is the 5204, but since it's a split seconds it costs an arm and a kidney...

I tried on a 5204, it was amazing!

[lapince]

Originally Posted by cinch

I tried on a 5204, it was amazing!

I can imagine

[gunrnnr]

The 3970 is a gorgeous piece, and overall the watch is truly a classic...the pump pushers, clean dial layout, stepped lugs, etc. The only problem for me is the size, at 36mm when I put the watch on I feel like I'm wearing a midsize! The 3970's predecessor, the 2499, has been a long time grail watch for me. However after owning a couple different 3970s over the years, I doubt I would like it's size. The 2499s wear SLIGHTLY larger but not by much. The great thing about the 3970s is they were made for a long time and therefore there are always quite a few for sale...and if your diligent you can find them at a good deal. If you don't mind the size, I would say go for it as it will be mush cheaper than the 5970s.

As far as which are "collectible" I would say the rarer configurations. As Ken pointed out in an earlier post a 3970P with black dial is rare. Also you will see 3970s with 5004 dials which are really cool and relatively rare. The first series 3970s are sought after and the 2nd series watches are desirable as well. Honestly anything that they produced few of or that is unusual will be sought after, no matter the reference. As far as what to look for, you want a watch that hasn't been over polished (ex. you will see the steps on the lugs almost melted looking sometimes) and one where the hallmarks are still crisp. Obviously it's good to find one with it's original accessories. Remember, the fun part is the hunt!

[SearChart]

Originally Posted by lapince

I prefer these pushers to the 5970 pushers, for me the best looking chrono PC piece is the 5204, but since it's a split seconds it costs an arm and a kidney...

I agree, the 5204 is IMO the best looking as well with the 5004 as a close second.

[myopiccoog]

I was told by Patek they only made about 40-50 3970P-020. That is with original black dial. Some were added after market so be careful when buying. I have only seen the one i own with the hallmarks on all 4 lugs. Seen many with hallmarks on two lugs and many with no hallmarks on the side lugs.

[Willygallardo]

These 3970 are growing on me seems like i have to get my grail watch sometime soon.
Especially the P with black dial and hallmarks

[conkers]

Amazing watches indeed - but for me too small and I prefer rectangular pushers, but stunning nonetheless.

The tachometer version is awesome, 3970EP-046, even though the dial is very busy. I believe only a handful of pieces but difficult to corroborate.

[Patekaholic]

Originally Posted by Chasseur

For your pleasure

can I post on Instagram?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Willygallardo]

Quick question 3970E produced in 1999 is it a second series?
And the E does it stand for Rose gold?
I know J is gold..

[Kauder]

To be, this is an example of the "golden years" of PP, when they were so dead-pan serious, with only minor playful things like the Serif font of the date numbers around the moonphase.

This was before frying pan sized watches came into fashion, or made-up stories about pilots.

I was lucky enough to try one on my wrist once. 36mm not small - mind you, most Rolex non-sports models were 35 or 36mm and they were seen as quite bulky, compared to ultra flat pieces from VC or PP. Its "smallness" makes it so delicate and precious, and it disappears easily under a double cuff.

What a watch.

[Daytonaman799]

GREAT watch. Beautiful font.

[subtona]

3970 is amazing, If you have the wrist for it, go for it.

[topcat30093]

I purposely visited my AD this morning, first time in over a year, to get my watch fix

As well as looking at the 5227,5980R (what a weight) the new 40mm Rolex Platinum DD (WOW even more weight) and several other brands. My AD told me that they had taken in a 3970E, which was currently away at Patek being serviced.

And then to my amazement, he showed me a 5016R which had just come back from having some work done on it.
What a beautiful sound the MR makes, I was surprised at how small it was. But then, as I have been told before, small is beautiful
I was not able to take any photos, but my AD has promised to send me a couple