Urgent 1601 authenticity check

[JBaggy]

Hi all, first post here.

Just agreed a deal to purchase a Datejust 1601 from 1966/67- white gold bezel, gilt dial and black/gold hour markers.

Upon closer inspection of the pictures it looks like this dial may have been restored as some of the lettering seems slightly off. Does anyone have any thoughts? Does this make the purchase a no-go?

Appreciate any help!

[GST15]

I am admittedly no expert, but nothing seems off to me. I see you may have a Rolex service document. When was last service?

[JBaggy]

Originally Posted by GST15

I am admittedly no expert, but nothing seems off to me. I see you may have a Rolex service document. When was last service?

The seller say it was 2/3 years ago, although I am unsure if it was done at a Rolex Service Centre.

[CaveDweller]

From what I have gathered on here, gold hands / crown / indices on a dial invariably match with a bi-metal (at least) bracelet, but there were a lot of swaps going on back in the day

On perhaps a more poignant note, the bracelet is approaching its sell by date, and the state of the hands is unlikely to have gone unnoticed by Rolex, so take a good hard look at the service details

Remarkably strong case though – I’d take a closer look at that as well

That being said, it is what it is, and presents well (enough)

So now all we’re discussing (or not) is the price …..

[JBaggy]

Originally Posted by CaveDweller

From what I have gathered on here, gold hands / crown / indices on a dial invariably match with a bi-metal (at least) bracelet, but there were a lot of swaps going on back in the day

On perhaps a more poignant note, the bracelet is approaching its sell by date, and the state of the hands is unlikely to have gone unnoticed by Rolex, so take a good hard look at the service details

Remarkably strong case though – I’d take a closer look at that as well

That being said, it is what it is, and presents well (enough)

So now all we’re discussing (or not) is the price …..

Thanks for the insight. The seller states that it's a later jubilee bracelet E10 clasp code dating to 1980, so not original to the watch although that doesn't bother me greatly.

Deal was agreed at £3,300- judging by previously sold listing of gilt dials this seemed reasonable to me, and the bezel and case is very crisp for its age. Seller hasn't got much to say on the service history though.

The main thing that is bugging me is the 'UAL' in 'PERPETUAL', doesn't look like original lettering to me? Perhaps I'm being too critical.

[330ci]

Originally Posted by JBaggy

Thanks for the insight. The seller states that it's a later jubilee bracelet E10 clasp code dating to 1980, so not original to the watch although that doesn't bother me greatly.

Deal was agreed at £3,300- judging by previously sold listing of gilt dials this seemed reasonable to me, and the bezel and case is very crisp for its age. Seller hasn't got much to say on the service history though.

The main thing that is bugging me is the 'UAL' in 'PERPETUAL', doesn't look like original lettering to me? Perhaps I'm being too critical.

Is this a true tilt dial or just gold print? If it’s just gold text it’s not a true gilt dial

[JBaggy]

Originally Posted by 330ci

Is this a true tilt dial or just gold print? If it’s just gold text it’s not a true gilt dial

Seller says that it's a black glossy gilt pie pan dial which has aged slightly tropical, which doesn't really clarify either way.

Unfortunately I can't view the watch in person as we live on opposite ends of the country, so having to rely on pictures here.

[offrdmania]

That dial most likely didnt start life on the watch but it was very common for dials to be swapped out based on a buyers preference.

[CaveDweller]

3,300 is a bit more stretched than the bracelet, but the thing is, do you like it

It’s basically a cobbled together watch, and not a full set – which, if the opposite were true, would justify the price

But as said, it’s perfectly serviceable to wear, and it’s your choice at the end of the day

But I’d recommend taking a look at 16030’s before rushing into things – same price range. The only thing that has going for it is the case, likely a service replacement. Plus, I would suggest that RSC would likely turn their noses up at it unless you agreed to over a thousand pounds worth of improvements

Not trying to put you off – just saying it like it is, plenty of independents out there

If you have the tin, and want it as a daily wearer (and forsake the dreaded loupe) – fair enough …….

[JBaggy]

Originally Posted by CaveDweller

3,300 is a bit more stretched than the bracelet, but the thing is, do you like it

It’s basically a cobbled together watch, and not a full set – which, if the opposite were true, would justify the price

But as said, it’s perfectly serviceable to wear, and it’s your choice at the end of the day

But I’d recommend taking a look at 16030’s before rushing into things – same price range. The only thing that has going for it is the case, likely a service replacement. Plus, I would suggest that RSC would likely turn their noses up at it unless you agreed to over a thousand pounds worth of improvements

Not trying to put you off – just saying it like it is, plenty of independents out there

If you have the tin, and want it as a daily wearer (and forsake the dreaded loupe) – fair enough …….

Yes I'm starting to believe 3,300 is bordering on unreasonable, especially considering the dial may not be gilt but rather gold print. I've asked the seller for more photos- from what I understand a true gilt dial should show a small level of relief between the gold leaf layer underneath and the surrounding black paint layer.

You're right about it being cobbled together, thanks for pointing this out to me. I've not come across many (if any) 1601's with gold hands/indices coupled with a white gold bezel which leads to me to believe some parts aren't original. This doesn't bother me hugely as I plan to wear it daily, but paying a premium for something that isn't fully original doesn't sit quite right with me.

[JBaggy]

Could anyone else advise on whether they think it's a gilt dial?

It's hard to tell from the photos, and the examples of sold gilt Datejusts online (looking mostly at HQ Milton here) all look a bit different.

[GST15]

Personally, I would want to see it before committing. I do like it though!

[doramas]

The Jubilee is very good

[Tools]

Nice looking watch.

Dials are changed all the time, especially on Datejusts.

This early pie-pan, non lume, dial is appropriate for the era. Usually, gold print and hands are seen on the TT models, but it is not wholly inappropriate.

If you like it, get it. There is no down-side, and no law that states that you must know, and have, a watch that is unaltered from when it left the factory.

[zapokee]

If you're having doubts before the purchase, it will continue to bug you after the purchase.

Get out of the deal if you can. I've bought watches that I wasn't perfectly happy with, and it never ends well...

You're welcome.

[Claven2]

I dont think its a gilt dial. I also think that dial was swapped in more recently. Rolex would never agree to service a rollisor 1601 and leave a TT 1601 dial and hands combo in there. They would look up the serial number and insist in returning the watch to factory spec.