Rolex vs. Grand Seiko

[Speedbird-1]

What are the pro's and con's of buying a Grand Seiko?

One of the larger sellers has just sent me an article promoting, (very positively),
a version of the Japanese marque, a 'divers' watch, with a black bezel, crown guards etc, which seems to be the usual 'copy', or homage to the Rolex Submariner. It looks ,'quite nice' ( is that, damning, with feint praise?).

Apart from the considerable new purchase cost differential, why would you choose either?

We are led to believe that the 'Seiko' has the superior, movement, and
is a better 'finished' product. Is this true?

With all the fuss around the availability (or not) of SS Rolexes, will any members be buying the Oriental alternative?

[enjoythemusic]

Agree about Seiko having better movement finishing, plus their movements are very good. Pricing is relatively reasonable too. Seiko is perhaps not as 'bang it around bullet-proof' as a Rolex, yet very good if you plan to use as a dress or sporty watch. JMHO

[SeaDweller50]

Resale value low compared to Rolex.

[Mystro]

I own many fine luxury watches and had the opportunity to long look and handled a Grand Seiko. I don’t get the appeal at all with the Seiko?? It had zero appeal to me. Perhaps I am too Swiss-centric of a buyer/owner but tnis is like trying to sell a S-class owner a Kia K900. ‘“Superior movement” is a subjective and misleading description. Superior as in more durable, less fussy, more accurate, etc...?
Seiko has made quite a advancement over the last few decades but I am not convinced they have (or will ever) achieve the same level as their Swiss counter parts.

[joli160]

Originally Posted by Lt Virgil Hilts

We are led to believe that the 'Seiko' has the superior, movement, and
is a better 'finished' product. Is this true?

Yes, just look at some macro pictures from GS case finishing or dials, there is no doubt.
The facetted markers and hands are like no other and Rolex can learn a thing or two from GS.

GS has blown all Swiss manufacturers out of the water during the 60's Swiss Neuchatel observatory chronometer contests with respect to accuracy after which the Swiss quickly stopped with this competition.

Regardless the technical achievements of GS I still prefer Rolex for its history, designs and reliability.
I'd love to own a snowflake but Titanium does not feel good to me

[pickettt]

Depends on why you buy a watch. The Rolex product has higher resale, more appeal, and is better or even best known. GS is just a better watch.

[ferrissteve11]

It seemingly really comes down to branding and the strength of 'the crown' vs Seiko. Seiko makes a fine watch (and I own a few) but they do not have the image that the high end Swiss companies have spent years developing and cultivating.
That and while I've seen some beautiful Seiko's over the years they don't elicit the same degree of excitement that say Rolex, AP, Patek etc have and continue to do. Though as with all things watches....YMMV

[inzite]

Originally Posted by pickettt

Depends on why you buy a watch. The Rolex product has higher resale, more appeal, and is better or even best known. GS is just a better watch.

this if we minus the bracelets in terms of not the build quality but the added function on rolex bracelets such as micro adjust - GS bracelets are better than the 5 digit bracelets by miles. GS is higher quality over all in terms of finish of case and dial, and quality of work in areas you can see and even has more decorated movement than a rollie.

and yes i have both, both get wrist time for different reasons.

[GB-man]

When it comes to dive watches seiko is the way to go, not grand seiko. At a GS price point I much prefer the rolex sub etc.

I did however just pick up a GS sbgh267 and it is sublime.

[inzite]

Originally Posted by GB-man

When it comes to dive watches seiko is the way to go, not grand seiko. At a GS price point I much prefer the rolex sub etc.

I did however just pick up a GS sbgh267 and it is sublime.

GS divers are too chunky imo, their beauties are in the non divers. SBGH267 looks lovely! Every time I put on my SBGJ005 it brings a smile.

[Zakalwe]

Originally Posted by Mystro

I own many fine luxury watches and had the opportunity to long look and handled a Grand Seiko. I don’t get the appeal at all with the Seiko?? It had zero appeal to me. Perhaps I am too Swiss-centric of a buyer/owner but tnis is like trying to sell a S-class owner a Kia K900. ‘“Superior movement” is a subjective and misleading description. Superior as in more durable, less fussy, more accurate, etc...?
Seiko has made quite a advancement over the last few decades but I am not convinced they have (or will ever) achieve the same level as their Swiss counter parts.

Since you’ve referenced Seiko as a whole rather than GS in the bit in bold, I have to say that within the Credor brand Seiko produce stuff that blows most of the Swiss watch industry out of the water. The Eichii II is a masterpiece and a true grail watch for me (though short of winning a lottery that I don’t play I’ll never afford one).

As for GS I kind of echo a comment above. In terms of overall quality of product I view the brand on a par with if not superior to Rolex. However personally I find most of the designs not especially to my taste and, dare I say it, a bit dull? As such I much prefer various Rolex pieces to any GS.

[Fleetlord]

Nice watches for sure...but get one only after you get the Rolex you really want.

[pickettt]

Originally Posted by inzite

and yes i have both, both get wrist time for different reasons.

Likewise. I think you have to own both to give an honest answer.

[Swiss Mad!]

My name is Swiss Mad! not Jap Mad! so it's a no from me.

Having said that, I do own a semi vintage Seiko Speedtimer which is quite nice, so I do appreciate the brand, just not enough to splash multiple '000s on a GS model.

Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

[Devildog]

Originally Posted by Lt Virgil Hilts

What are the pro's and con's of buying a Grand Seiko?

One of the larger sellers has just sent me an article promoting, (very positively),
a version of the Japanese marque, a 'divers' watch, with a black bezel, crown guards etc, which seems to be the usual 'copy', or homage to the Rolex Submariner. It looks ,'quite nice' ( is that, damning, with feint praise?).

Apart from the considerable new purchase cost differential, why would you choose either?

We are led to believe that the 'Seiko' has the superior, movement, and
is a better 'finished' product. Is this true?

With all the fuss around the availability (or not) of SS Rolexes, will any members be buying the Oriental alternative?

I was very tempted to buy one of these, a SBGA229G.

https://www.grand-seiko.com/global-e...ions/SBGA229G/

Appx £5,750 or £500 less than the Sub date. After discount you cold probably get the GS for £1,000 less than the Sub. Zero discount on the Sub of course

IMO the GS although less "desirable" is, overall, a higher quality product.

The lower desirability is, of course, reflected in the lower retained value.

[Angry-Gardener]

The only similarity is both are quality wristwatches. Beyond that the brands are completely different in their appeal.

Anyone considering a Grand Seiko could spring for a Submariner. The chances of someone even knowing about a Grand Seiko are pretty slim if they aren’t already into the watch game pretty deep, and if your are in that deep, with that kind of coin you are going to buy what you want to wear for your own reasons.

Finding someone wearing a Sub is pretty easy. Go to any decent nightclub, sporting event or nice restaurant and how long will it take to spot multiple Rolex divers, An Hour? 10 min? Try and find someone wearing a Grand Seiko in a week, or a month, or a year. Good luck.

And for some, that must be part of the appeal. GS is a super high end, top quality brand with understated classic design. They do not stand out as a “Look at me, I made it” item like so many luxury icons.

Personally, I’ve never been able to quite get there on the combination of price and style. Appreciate? Of course. Open my wallet? Ummm....

I was really into vintage Seiko, and also have some modern, Japan only divers so it’s not like I have a geographic bias. My Seiko Marine Master 300m which features a ceramic bezel and allegedly a base movement from the Grand Seiko lineup. Super nice watch, but even it seems a little pricey for a Seiko, never mind 4 or 5 times that amount for a Grand Seiko.

That pretty much sums up the problem they have finding their niche in the high end market. First, they have to compete with the larger Seiko brand, so well known in the mid-market. Then, the money GS is asking puts them into direct competition with every other popular luxury watch brand (not just Rolex). There are a lot of great choices out there.

A couple of other concerns - resale market and depreciation. The GS buyer is a limited market, classic 60’s GS aside - how do you find a buyer for a 5 or 10 year old GS? When I was looking at vintage Grand Seikos I was surprised to learn Seiko does not offer parts or service beyond 10 years. I imagine the same is true for other brands, but somehow getting a broken Rolex running decades later seems like no big deal and because they are so popular they are a comparatively liquid asset, perhaps the easiest to flip in the watch world and certainly the best overall at retaining value.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Syed117]

My DJ41 white dial on the right.

Snowflake on the left. Put a deposit down. Incoming in about 2 weeks.

Some things I noticed when I first went to see it:

- Snowflake dial is better than any dial Rolex makes. The white is brilliant.
- GS polishing is better than Rolex polishing. On titanium and especially on steel.
- hands and hour markers are much better than Rolex

- Rolex end links fit is better
- Rolex bracelet engineering is much better.

Will have more thoughts in a few weeks.

I don't consider it versus situation. Designs aside, they each do certain things better than the other.

[NKflyer]

If you want to try GS without spending a fortune, there is a quartz diver that regularly sells for ~$2500 in the secondary market. I really wanted to love it but wound up disliking the clasp, of all things. It has kinda like a glidelock feature that you can adjust while wearing the watch but it deploys from the front of the clasp. The extension piece is stamped steel and looks cheesy when deployed and makes the clasp very thick.

[zaydans]

Sorry but I can’t get my mind around spending 5k on a seiko no matter how fantastic it is. Rolex all the way for me!!

[Cru Jones]

Different strokes for different folks.

Some very informative threads on this topic.

And many ignorant posts, too.

[Loevhagen]

Seiko and Grand Seiko watches have a design that is somewhat boring and non-coherent. I prefer Rolex every day.

[inzite]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

Different strokes for different folks.

Some very informative threads on this topic.

And many ignorant posts, too.

Originally Posted by Syed117

My DJ41 white dial on the right.

Snowflake on the left. Put a deposit down. Incoming in about 2 weeks.

Some things I noticed when I first went to see it:

- Snowflake dial is better than any dial Rolex makes. The white is brilliant.
- GS polishing is better than Rolex polishing. On titanium and especially on steel.
- hands and hour markers are much better than Rolex

- Rolex end links fit is better
- Rolex bracelet engineering is much better.

Will have more thoughts in a few weeks.

I don't consider it versus situation. Designs aside, they each do certain things better than the other.

Originally Posted by pickettt

Likewise. I think you have to own both to give an honest answer.

so yeah thought i'll share further, when I want to wear a quality piece that I bang around (non intentionally) I'll wear the Rollie, when I want to really appreciate the fine details and quality I wear the GS.

[pickettt]

Originally Posted by Mystro

Seiko has made quite a advancement over the last few decades but I am not convinced they have (or will ever) achieve the same level as their Swiss counter parts.

Same level of what?

[Onikage]

Who wants to spend £100,000 on a Honda? - Jeremy Clarkson on the NSX

[Syed117]

Originally Posted by pickettt

Same level of what?

I'd like to think he's talking about marketing and overall brand power.

Even I would give that to the Swiss.

With that said, I don't really care about the letters on the dial. There are far too many who only care about those 5 letters. A disproportionate number of Rolex wearers unfortunately. The fan base is the reason why so many WIS look down on Rolex as a brand. The product is amazing, but it's the luxury watch for the person who knows nothing about watches and just wants to slap something flashy and recognizable on their wrist. This forum is a bubble of real enthusiasts. We represent a fraction of a fraction of the people buying Rolex watches.

Grand Seiko is pretty much the opposite of that. I have a lot of respect for the guy wearing a GS simply because it takes a lot of confidence and security to get over the letters and appreciate the product.

[beshannon]

If I ever get to see a Grand Seiko, I might be able to answer

[pickettt]

Originally Posted by Onikage

Who wants to spend £100,000 on a Honda? - Jeremy Clarkson on the NSX

Didn't he get sacked?

[jason042779]

Room for both in the collection!

[Finslayer83]

Originally Posted by pickettt

Depends on why you buy a watch. The Rolex product has higher resale, more appeal, and is better or even best known. GS is just a better watch.

the GS movements are fascinating tech.

[oldman2005]

Beside Rolex and Omega, I love Seiko diver watches. Just pre-odered a Basel 2018 Seiko Limited Edition diver and I can't wait!!!

I'm on the 20 years waiting list for the GMT pepsi but will play with Omega/Seiko watches during the waiting period, maybe will get a Patek/AP :)