AP Pulls out of OnlyWatch 2023

[Gandor]

Wow, wonder what will happen to this piece unique now!

https://robbreport.com/style/watch-c...ch-1235366847/

[xliang23]

Probably auction it off themselves for a charity if their choice.

But wow, if Only Watch can prove they have close to 50M cash it should be fine right?

[HMHM]

I think AP is taking the right decision and also De Bethune in asking the right questions. The one that disappointed me most is FP Journe actually. OnlyWatch has operated without oversight as a charity and the funds have been channelled to companies where the OW founder has a conflict of interest. This is just serious misappropriation of funds. What’s stopping someone from creating a charity then funnelling it to their own company next time?

Willing to hedge a bet that the accounts are not as clean as OW claim them to be….

[dauster]

I read all the stuff that Santa Lara wrote on IG but can someone explain it to me in plan English ?

Is it just about oversight and what happens to the funds because they have some vague mission statements and switched the direction of the which disease they are fighting ?


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[HMHM]

Originally Posted by dauster

I read all the stuff that Santa Lara wrote on IG but can someone explain it to me in plan English ?

Is it just about oversight and what happens to the funds because they have some vague mission statements and switched the direction of the which disease they are fighting ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The gist is that Santa is pointing out that despite raking in Millions with each OW event, there is no proper accounting done by the charity. It’s only following the exposé that OW recruited KPMG (I believe it’s KPMG but it could be another Big 4). As OW attempted to explain more, it became clearer that the funds for the charity were diverted to the founder’s own company + some others.

It’s hilarious that a “charity” is able to channel funds to the company where the owner has a vested interest in. In essence, the charity is masquerading as a non-profit organisation yet the same time it is a piggy bank for the OW Founder’s own company in which he has a seizable stake (49% I think).

Following the exposé by Santa, the pertinent question is - what has the money been used for? Once it goes to SYQ where is the money trail?

[dchang81]

Originally Posted by HMHM

I think AP is taking the right decision and also De Bethune in asking the right questions. The one that disappointed me most is FP Journe actually. OnlyWatch has operated without oversight as a charity and the funds have been channelled to companies where the OW founder has a conflict of interest. This is just serious misappropriation of funds. What’s stopping someone from creating a charity then funnelling it to their own company next time?

Willing to hedge a bet that the accounts are not as clean as OW claim them to be….

I mean you're describing quite a few charities. In college my class project was identifying charities that used the majority of funds towards actual charitable works so people could donate to these. The accounting numbers are publicly accessable (at least 20 years ago). Was quite disheartening looking up the breakdown of where the money went, most of the times they had no shame and it just went to the person running it. And there were plenty of well known charities where less than a couple percent of income went towards actual charitable work

[Armis]

Originally Posted by dchang81

I mean you're describing quite a few charities. In college my class project was identifying charities that used the majority of funds towards actual charitable works so people could donate to these. The accounting numbers are publicly accessable (at least 20 years ago). Was quite disheartening looking up the breakdown of where the money went, most of the times they had no shame and it just went to the person running it. And there were plenty of well known charities where less than a couple percent of income went towards actual charitable work

This is very sobering and highlights the need for better awareness where donated money goes. In the case of OW, I’m still trying to understand why the other companies have not followed suit if it’s all so obvious.

[77T]

Due to Monaco’s secretive banking and financial processes it makes many people suspicious.

It's far more useful to focus on true indicators of a nonprofit's performance: transparency, governance, leadership, and results.

My is this:
The OnlyWatch team needs an independent publicly released audit of the costs, proceeds, and benefits granted to those working to defeat the disease and dispel the rumors.

Keeping a war chest of 1/2 of proceeds may actually be beneficial to fund any near-term expenses for the next phases of trials. After all, throwing more money than necessary doesn’t get to a cure or viable therapy faster.

I hope their efforts have a positive outcome for those suffering from this debilitating disease.


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[Reign]

Originally Posted by Armis

This is very sobering and highlights the need for better awareness where donated money goes. In the case of OW, I’m still trying to understand why the other companies have not followed suit if it’s all so obvious.

I really frown on people that mindlessly check a box at checkout or donate for x charity post some kind of natural event.

Folks need to do their DD, there’s too much feel good laziness that’s being taken advantage of.

As for OW - related party transactions aren’t illegal but they are incredibly shady and highly frowned down upon in nearly all business contexts. Classic case of pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered with OW being the hog


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[edo]

Originally Posted by Armis

This is very sobering and highlights the need for better awareness where donated money goes. In the case of OW, I’m still trying to understand why the other companies have not followed suit if it’s all so obvious.

Because too often people refer watch companies and even more independent watchmakers as knights in shining armor but mostly they are just cokeheads who will sell their watch, or even make a custom order to dictators, kids trafficers, narco dealers to keep business going and expanding. And in that world a cigar puffing biotech company shaddy charity guy is a really really good guy.

[Xenophon]

Originally Posted by edo

Because too often people refer watch companies and even more independent watchmakers as knights in shining armor but mostly they are just cokeheads who will sell their watch, or even make a custom order to dictators, kids trafficers, narco dealers to keep business going and expanding. And in that world a cigar puffing biotech company shaddy charity guy is a really really good guy.

That's an unusual opinion and possibly libellous to express on a Rolex watch forum

[subtona]

Originally Posted by Xenophon

That's an unusual opinion and possibly libellous to express on a Rolex watch forum

That was politely put

[edo]

Yes, even politely put, I use to offend people in this hypocrtical world. C'mon guys and I even didn't speak about other OW attendee, the next PD, GD, king of independents, The One who can't express his opinion about you know what, because it is on the oposite spectrum and most hands that feed him are pro others.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by HMHM

The gist is that Santa is pointing out that despite raking in Millions with each OW event, there is no proper accounting done by the charity. It’s only following the exposé that OW recruited KPMG (I believe it’s KPMG but it could be another Big 4). As OW attempted to explain more, it became clearer that the funds for the charity were diverted to the founder’s own company + some others.

It’s hilarious that a “charity” is able to channel funds to the company where the owner has a vested interest in. In essence, the charity is masquerading as a non-profit organisation yet the same time it is a piggy bank for the OW Founder’s own company in which he has a seizable stake (49% I think).

Following the exposé by Santa, the pertinent question is - what has the money been used for? Once it goes to SYQ where is the money trail?

Got it thank you- I just have missed the part that the funds have been diverted to the founders own company. How can FPJ stick with only watch - seems sketchy as hell


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[HMHM]

Originally Posted by edo

Yes, even politely put, I use to offend people in this hypocrtical world. C'mon guys and I even didn't speak about other OW attendee, the next PD, GD, king of independents, The One who can't express his opinion about you know what, because it is on the oposite spectrum and most hands that feed him are pro others.

Even worse, the so called “independent unbiased” media - like HDK, Revolution and Monochrome have all not reported anything. Not even an article about the alleged misconduct. Complete silence! Ben and Wei should be ashamed of themselves. Just like the Omega scandal which they refused to report until a third party news media blew the case up. Only then did HDK wrote something. It’s a huge disgrace these days what these media people are doing. SHAME!

[edo]

Originally Posted by HMHM

Even worse, the so called “independent unbiased” media - like HDK, Revolution and Monochrome have all not reported anything. Not even an article about the alleged misconduct. Complete silence! Ben and Wei should be ashamed of themselves. Just like the Omega scandal which they refused to report until a third party news media blew the case up. Only then did HDK wrote something. It’s a huge disgrace these days what these media people are doing. SHAME!

Independent watch media today is something that can not be written even in commas or italic... basically, it's a oxymoron, like a skinny sumo wrestler...

I know Ben and Hodinkee are a nice target to mock, even I do it sometimes for fun, but let's get real... guy built a empire, he made watch collab with 20+ brands not something that many, if anyone, can brag about... an big as H became it is delusional to think they will report about this till the point it becomes so obvious that OW shut down the auction... and the other mentioned... who takes the middle age crisis manboy serious?

The problem with watch bloggers or todays influencers is that everything is great, and if it is not great it is surely fun or out of box because when a heir of conglomerate fly you to a exotic destination even a Super Mario tourbillon is something that we need in this cloudy days, a touch of creative genius... something like some women and fat ugly guys... if he acts like shit, and is poor and not in a position of power he is just a disgusting pig, and if he owns a yacht or can give you a role in next Hollywood blockbuster (any similarity to any living person is mere coincidence) he is a cutie bear...

[wcwong27]

Originally Posted by HMHM

Even worse, the so called “independent unbiased” media - like HDK, Revolution and Monochrome have all not reported anything. Not even an article about the alleged misconduct. Complete silence! Ben and Wei should be ashamed of themselves. Just like the Omega scandal which they refused to report until a third party news media blew the case up. Only then did HDK wrote something. It’s a huge disgrace these days what these media people are doing. SHAME!

Not sure about the other publications, but Revolution did put out an article about this on October 18th titled "Questions about Only Watch, Luc Pettavino, and all the answers provided so far" which provides a good summary of the allegations and initial responses. I apparently can't post links since I have less than 10 posts so perhaps someone that is able to do so can do it instead.

[ButtButt]

Originally Posted by edo

Independent watch media today is something that can not be written even in commas or italic... basically, it's a oxymoron, like a skinny sumo wrestler...

I know Ben and Hodinkee are a nice target to mock, even I do it sometimes for fun, but let's get real... guy built a empire, he made watch collab with 20+ brands not something that many, if anyone, can brag about... an big as H became it is delusional to think they will report about this till the point it becomes so obvious that OW shut down the auction... and the other mentioned... who takes the middle age crisis manboy serious?

The problem with watch bloggers or todays influencers is that everything is great, and if it is not great it is surely fun or out of box because when a heir of conglomerate fly you to a exotic destination even a Super Mario tourbillon is something that we need in this cloudy days, a touch of creative genius... something like some women and fat ugly guys... if he acts like shit, and is poor and not in a position of power he is just a disgusting pig, and if he owns a yacht or can give you a role in next Hollywood blockbuster (any similarity to any living person is mere coincidence) he is a cutie bear...

I like you.

[WatchEater666]

I pointed this out politely on an IG post Santa made but most charities and companies do not have audited financials just sitting around. The only reason some of mine do is because of covenant compliance with lenders.

My guess is that they won’t be able to produce audited financials for at least 4 to 6 months. It takes a while and usually low 6 figures for something that size.

[arnage]

appears that the auction has officially been postponed to 2024, at this point.

[subtona]

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cyv_Uc0q...c4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

[Vince_76]

Originally Posted by edo

Independent watch media today is something that can not be written even in commas or italic... basically, it's a oxymoron, like a skinny sumo wrestler...

I know Ben and Hodinkee are a nice target to mock, even I do it sometimes for fun, but let's get real... guy built a empire, he made watch collab with 20+ brands not something that many, if anyone, can brag about... an big as H became it is delusional to think they will report about this till the point it becomes so obvious that OW shut down the auction... and the other mentioned... who takes the middle age crisis manboy serious?

The problem with watch bloggers or todays influencers is that everything is great, and if it is not great it is surely fun or out of box because when a heir of conglomerate fly you to a exotic destination even a Super Mario tourbillon is something that we need in this cloudy days, a touch of creative genius... something like some women and fat ugly guys... if he acts like shit, and is poor and not in a position of power he is just a disgusting pig, and if he owns a yacht or can give you a role in next Hollywood blockbuster (any similarity to any living person is mere coincidence) he is a cutie bear...

Wish more people were pragmatic like you

[Gandor]

That is crazy, this is probably the biggest story in watches in years and there's so little coverage on it. I guess no one really wants to get caught with egg on their face. Canceling the event last minute is such a twist.

[messikens]

Just IMO but it shows you how dishonest the entire marketplace has become and I DELIBERATELY include HDK, Wei Koh and all the other "independent reporters".

Truly a case of "dont bite the hand that feeds you". AP releases yet another limited edition model or Swatch releases the 10th iteration of the Moonswatch and you are inundated with pages upon pages of thinly veiled marketing (oops... Sorry I meant independent reporting).

One of the potential biggest scandals in the last few years where the founder of OW has likely steered huge funding to companies he just happens to be a major stakeholder in... CRICKETS

[HMHM]

Originally Posted by edo

Independent watch media today is something that can not be written even in commas or italic... basically, it's a oxymoron, like a skinny sumo wrestler...

I know Ben and Hodinkee are a nice target to mock, even I do it sometimes for fun, but let's get real... guy built a empire, he made watch collab with 20+ brands not something that many, if anyone, can brag about... an big as H became it is delusional to think they will report about this till the point it becomes so obvious that OW shut down the auction... and the other mentioned... who takes the middle age crisis manboy serious?

The problem with watch bloggers or todays influencers is that everything is great, and if it is not great it is surely fun or out of box because when a heir of conglomerate fly you to a exotic destination even a Super Mario tourbillon is something that we need in this cloudy days, a touch of creative genius... something like some women and fat ugly guys... if he acts like shit, and is poor and not in a position of powe he is just a disgusting pig, and if he owns a yacht or can give you a role in next Hollywood blockbuster (any similarity to any living person is mere coincidence) he is a cutie bear...

It’s not about mocking Ben or HDK. It’s about pointing out how they have lost their way nowadays. If they can’t even question the dubious malpractices that are currently going on in the horological sphere, then what’s the point of even being a media company? HDK was first and foremost a media venture that wrote articles about anything watch related. Now it’s basically an e-commerce company. I understand why they don’t want to rock the boat to avoid being ostracised by the big companies but when there is questionable situations, they ought to provide a louder voice in demanding transparency and integrity, or else watch collecting will turn into a cesspool for money laundering and fraud.

Now, all the big watch companies - HDK, Monochrome and the biggest sucker of all - SJX, will kindly post some carefully crafted press statement provided by OW to calm the waters. Easy 100% engagement, 0 journalistic effort. After all the hard work done by Santa and Perezcope yet zero acknowledgement.

[Armis]

Originally Posted by messikens

Just IMO but it shows you how dishonest the entire marketplace has become and I DELIBERATELY include HDK, Wei Koh and all the other "independent reporters".

Truly a case of "dont bite the hand that feeds you". AP releases yet another limited edition model or Swatch releases the 10th iteration of the Moonswatch and you are inundated with pages upon pages of thinly veiled marketing (oops... Sorry I meant independent reporting).

One of the potential biggest scandals in the last few years where the founder of OW has likely steered huge funding to companies he just happens to be a major stakeholder in... CRICKETS

Does HDK really market itself as “independent reporting” though? I would think their number of brand collaboration limited edition releases makes a clear point, so perhaps that’s why they are quiet about OW. Again, I don’t know how they market themselves. In contrast, from a brand perspective, I’m surprised no one has applauded AP for taking a clear and early position. While an independent investigation is still required, AP’s decision is notable at the very least.
On the whole this drama is unfortunate for a number of reasons including the effect on a source of research funding for a rare disease.

[Greenp]

Originally Posted by HMHM

Now, all the big watch companies - HDK, Monochrome and the biggest sucker of all - SJX, will kindly post some carefully crafted press statement provided by OW to calm the waters. Easy 100% engagement, 0 journalistic effort. After all the hard work done by Santa and Perezcope yet zero acknowledgement.

Yeah, SJX says "but the details provided by the organisation so far are certainly reassuring."
Here:https://watchesbysjx.com/2023/10/onl...-research.html

[John Doyle]

Originally Posted by Armis

Does HDK really market itself as “independent reporting” though? I would think their number of brand collaboration limited edition releases makes a clear point, so perhaps that’s why they are quiet about OW. Again, I don’t know how they market themselves. In contrast, from a brand perspective, I’m surprised no one has applauded AP for taking a clear and early position. While an independent investigation is still required, AP’s decision is notable at the very least.
On the whole this drama is unfortunate for a number of reasons including the effect on a source of research funding for a rare disease.

True, but let's not forget that AP is a one watch company and for innovation releases spiderman limited editions...

[In-N-Out]

Originally Posted by John Doyle

True, but let's not forget that AP is a one watch company and for innovation releases spiderman limited editions...

Why do you even browse or post in the AP forums if you hate AP so much?

[John Doyle]

Because i love AP and am genuinely sad seeing where the company is now.