Watch grading and sellers reliablity question....

[drlecter]

Hi,
I just purchased a watch from a forum member and I am having a bad taste after this deal and I don't know what to do.

Before buying the watch, I asked the seller the condition of the watch and I specifically asked if it had any dings/dents/scratches and the seller replied, "it only has a hairline or two on the clasp".

However, when I received the watch, I noticed that the hairlines that he referred to on the clasp, were scratches that are going to be able to be removed because there is missing metal, also, it has a small little dings on the case which were not properly described.

When I told this to the seller, he wanted me to send the watch to "his dealer" because he sold the watch to him and then after his dealer receive it he will refund my money.

I feel very uneasy about this entire deal and his honesty and I am even hesitant to return the watch to him.

What do you think?

Thanks,

[drlecter]

This is what he replied on his email:

"Watch is in excellent excellent condition....no dings, dents or anything like that. Only a hairline cratch on a clasp. Super clean condition. Comes with everything...box, papers, 2 tags, link, and original sales receipt. Hard to let it go but I'm selling to get the 116613.
Let me know. I got a few potential buyers right now.........

Thanks,"

[FNFZ4]

if the seller is a well known TRF seller I wouldn't hesitate to send the watch where he wants it. Some sellers send their watch to me for service and for polish so I can understand his way of thinking. Maybe he sold the watch for his AD.

[drlecter]

Originally Posted by FNFZ4

if the seller is a well known TRF seller I wouldn't hesitate to send the watch where he wants it. Some sellers send their watch to me for service and for polish so I can understand his way of thinking. Maybe he sold the watch for his AD.

I understand your point of view, and, how about if his seller says, "I didn't receive anything" I end up losing my money and the watch.

[FNFZ4]

Originally Posted by drlecter

I understand your point of view, and, how about if his seller says, "I didn't receive anything" I end up losing my money and the watch.

Unfortunately, you are correct. That is why you buy the seller first and then the watch. If you wired him money to buy the watch if he wanted to stiff you then he would not have sent a watch in the first place.

In this business, all we have is our reputation. That is something that we will never tarnish not even for any amount. I believe any seller will do good because of this fact. However, I have to caution you that I only know a hand full of sellers that will go above and beyond what is needed to make the customer happy.

If he has an attitude like what you state, I dont think he can be one of the guys that I know personally and can vouch for them and their product.

Good luck into resolving your issue and let me know if I can help out in any way.

[drlecter]

BTW, his attitude was pretty bad towards resolving the issue.

[Welshwatchman]

If the watch is not as described I'd just reject it and ask for the return of my cash.

If the seller is one of the few "repeat offenders" whereby the likes of Alfred and Greg step in to offer decency in the glaring absence of the seller's .... I'd like to know about it.

[FeelingTheBlues]

Alfred, I couldn't agree more with you my friend! I am hoping that this seller is as honest and as much of a stand up man like yourself so he'll do everything to make his customer happy.

Originally Posted by Welshwatchman

If the watch is not as described I'd just reject it and ask for the return of my cash.

If the seller is one of the few "repeat offenders" whereby the likes of Alfred and Greg step in to offer decency in the glaring absence of the seller's .... I'd like to know about it.

Well said Paul, I'd say that if the seller is not willing to make sure his customer is 100% satisfied a full refund is the only other option. Myself would rather move on and find a more honest dealer if the first one isn't good enough.

[TimeToGo]

Did you get good pictures of the watch and not see the deficiencies?

Obviously if the watch is not as described, you should be able to get your refund.

Feel free to post for the For Sale ad for review.

Also take pictures in the condition that it is currently as.

[FNFZ4]

I created a list of what to look for when buying Rolex. Hope this helps

http://rolexforums.com/showthread.ph...89#post4113389

[drlecter]

Thanks everyone that replied to this thread.

At this point, I decided to keep the watch, simply because I just do not trust this seller, his ethics and the way that he responded.

To answer the question above, no, I didn't ask for close up pictures, I usually trust the seller, me, personally I have sold so many watches around the world, to Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Australia, Asia, etc. with ZERO issues, because I am 100% honest and describe my watches properly, unfortunately we can expect others to do the same.

Live and learn.

Thanks again for your help!

Best regards,

[TimeToGo]

How comforting to know that there is a seller in our forum that you did not trust and that there could be future members that may share the same experience and disappointment, unknownly!

[chicfarmer1]

Originally Posted by TimeToGo

How comforting to know that there is a seller in our forum that you did not trust and that there could be future members that may share the same experience and disappointment, unknownly!

Yes. The right thing to do is have a little concern for fellow members and make known who that seller is, at least to mods. With particulars of the situation that they can verify.

[drlecter]

Will do, I will take close up pics and post all the details.

[mountainrivera]

I think you should eat his liver with some Chiante a Fava Beans. People need to exercise full disclosure and in this case stand by the watch and do right. Why should the good Dr. deal with anyone other than the seller who should refund the payment and make good on shipping for the inaccurate description? Good luck and hope it works out.

Originally Posted by drlecter

Will do, I will take close up pics and post all the details.

[drlecter]

Ok guys, here you go.

This is the seller's description:

"Pablo,
Watch is in excellent excellent condition....no dings, dents or anything like that. Only a hairline cratch on a clasp. Super clean condition. Comes with everything...box, papers, 2 tags, link, and original sales receipt. Hard to let it go but I'm selling to get the 116613.
Let me know. I got a few potential buyers right now.........

Thanks,

Paul"

And this is what I received:








Now, what do you think?

[drlecter]

Originally Posted by drlecter

Ok guys, here you go.

This is the seller's description:

"Pablo,
Watch is in excellent excellent condition....no dings, dents or anything like that. Only a hairline cratch on a clasp. Super clean condition. Comes with everything...box, papers, 2 tags, link, and original sales receipt. Hard to let it go but I'm selling to get the 116613.
Let me know. I got a few potential buyers right now.........

Thanks,

Paul"

And this is what I received:








Now, what do you think?

Nate,
Please see above.

Thanks,

[TurboWatch]

and get your money back. If the seller has any decency, he'd get you all your money back plus the shipping.

The watch is not as advertized, and it's obvious that you're not happy and don't want to keep the watch.

What's the point of going back and forth?

[nch209]

Originally Posted by drlecter

Nate,
Thanks for the offer. Now when you say that you don't know who is right and who is wrong, maybe you want to go to the beginning of this thread where you can see the description of the watch (from the seller's email) and the pictures of the watch that I received and I still have in my possession.

Where the seller got to keep the money and I got not what he supposed to deliver, he got the end of the bargain but I didn't, on top of that, he has the guts to call me names. Unbelievable.

Originally Posted by drlecter

Nate,
Please see above.

Thanks,

I read the entire thread. What I meant by my statement was I am not trying to pick sides. Obviously the watch isn't perfect or as described, but seller appears to be willing to accept a return, so that's good. So return it.... right?..... Now the issue that appears to be happening- seller doesn't want to wire money back before he has the watch, and buyer doesn't wish to do the opposite--- both fear they could get screwed. Just my read on it...and if this is the case, I can see both sides. Who's right, who's wrong? Well, that's a big question since I have no clue what, if anything, either discussed concerning returns... Among other things.

I have zero stake in this, and am only trying to help out since I am near the location of one of the parties. So again, I am not saying who is right or wrong- but willing to help out however I can to bring peace back.

Just trying to help. Perhaps another solution is to find a (willing) member you both trust to help facilitate the safe transaction of funds/watch to both parties.

All the best,
N8

[Syed117]

That's horrendous. Any seller that calls that "excellent" condition should be banned forever from these forums. I wouldn't even call that good condition. It's been abused.

Assuming everything you said is true and those are the real pictures, I think you should post the sellers name so people know not to deal with him.

I may be more harsh than others, but even one complaint like this makes me never want to deal with a seller.

[drlecter]

Originally Posted by Syed117

That's horrendous. Any seller that calls that "excellent" condition should be banned forever from these forums. I wouldn't even call that good condition. It's been abused.

Assuming everything you said is true and those are the real pictures, I think you should post the sellers name so people know not to deal with him.

I may be more harsh than others, but even one complaint like this makes me never want to deal with a seller.

Of course it is, I just copied his response from the email he sent me when I asked about the condition of the watch.

And yes, those are the real pictures of the watch I received from Paul.

Does his response and the pictures match?

On top of that the guy gets mad and wants to ship the watch to a third party person, I found this shady and I do not feel comfortable about even shipping the watch back, I am afraid to getting stiffed.

This guy is not honorable, just look at his response and see the pictures and tell me if I am wrong.

[FNFZ4]

Originally Posted by drlecter

Of course it is, I just copied his response from the email he sent me when I asked about the condition of the watch.

And yes, those are the real pictures of the watch I received from Paul.

Does his response and the pictures match?

On top of that the guy gets mad and wants to ship the watch to a third party person, I found this shady and I do not feel comfortable about even shipping the watch back, I am afraid to getting stiffed.

This guy is not honorable, just look at his response and see the pictures and tell me if I am wrong.

The issue that I see here is not about returning the watch but returning the watch to another person before the refund isinitiated. This is my understanding of what I quoted above.

The question is why would the seller ask the watch to be returned to another person instead directly to him and who is this other person? Clearly this is a big NO NO. The watche should be returned to the seller and then he can send it out to whomever after the refund.

Drlecter,

Are you willing to send the watch back to the seller? I understand not returning it to a third party person but are you willing to return it to the seller for a refund?

Paultran,

Since you are willing to issue a refund, why ask the buyer to ship the watch to another person? Are you willing to receive the watch yourself and issue the refund?

I am located in Los Angeles, I'll have the watch polished for free if this don't work out.

[TAKUYA]

From your pics, Those are not hairline scratches and not in excellent condition at all. But It should be call that "used watch" and "daily wear" with some deep scratches and dents. Return it and get more cash to buy "the excellent condition one".

P.s. Don't waste your money on the watches from those who don't know how to take care of them.

[Wllnv19]

Wow send it back!

[HL65]

Clearly his description is wrong and he should refund you. I also think you should expose him here so we know who it is.

[unclesallie]

Originally Posted by Wllnv19

Wow send it back!

Originally Posted by SteelerFan65

Clearly his description is wrong and he should refund you. I also think you should expose him here so we know who it is.

I agree 100% with the foregoing.

This type of thing just happened in another thread. These types of issues seem to occur at the same time. TRF is huge now, and there has to be accountability. I have done many deals on TRF and never, ever had a problem. We need to keep it that way. Your full disclosure of the name of the Seller may be unpleasant, but it keeps these boards honest.

[Welshwatchman]

Originally Posted by SteelerFan65

Clearly his description is wrong and he should refund you. I also think you should expose him here so we know who it is.

Agreed.

I've just searched through the recent 116610LV listings and can't see a watch/seller that matches your description/name.

[drlecter]

Originally Posted by Welshwatchman

Agreed.

I've just searched through the recent 116610LV listings and can't see a watch/seller that matches your description/name.

His username is paultran out of VA.

[drlecter]

Question: Should I send the watch back and trust this guy? he's clearly been dishonest and he was asking to ship the watch to a third party, also, he still has the money.

[paultran]

drlecter - IS AN EXTREMELY UNTRUST WORTHY BUYER. PERIOD.
I've asked him numerous times to retrun the watch to me if he's not 100% happy and I'll be more than happy to give his full refund + I will pay all the shipping. Yet, he won't. He said he want to keep the watch but wanted me to give him a discount because of the damages. I've had sellers done this scam to me before and I won't go through that route again.
Please be honest and mention all the details. You make it seem like I won't give you a refund for your unsatifaction. I'm giving you a refund + the shipping cost. What else do you need? BAD BUYER!!!