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#1 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Asia
Watch: Audemars Piguet RO
Posts: 2,435
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Taiwanese AP Collector got banned and sharing his story
not sure how to embed youtube videos but here you go
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lr-...otorClub%2FEWC |
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#2 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: The world
Posts: 118
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I feel his frustration but its a light bulb moment.
I think you have to just be transparent with your SA on what you want to do, sell/trade for another similar AP on the grey market. Especially when it comes to desirable pieces like QPs or openwork. Problem is idk if corporate will understand or get the same message. |
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#3 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2019
Real Name: HM
Location: 🇲🇾
Posts: 2,406
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Okay.... I am a little undecided after watching the video.
Few months ago, I did mention that AP were biased towards celebrities and that they get a free pass to all the good stuffs (all AP are good, just some are more equal). Sunny isn't exactly a Taiwan A-lister celebrity (ask any Taiwanese), yet he got an 88 piece China LE QP..... He started the video by mentioning that he's BLACKLISTED because he sold 2 WATCHES, and those 2 watches ARE SPECIAL WATCHES. WG Double balanced wheel and China LE QP. Most of us here can only dream of those 2 allocations. That's a positive sign that AP is taking the right steps to correct the perception of bias - that even though one is a celebrity, they are held to the same standards which is flip a watch and out you go! That's correct and should be commended! On the other hand, if Sunny is blacklisted for selling a piece after 2 years for another AP (as he stated), what's is AP's rule for Mr Chu for running a wide open grey dealership? So one is allowed to sell brand new watches like these: (https://wristcheck.com/buy/audemars-...reen-dial/1478) - note the rotor isn't a 50th anniversary, hence likely to be sold in 2023, and another guy can't sell a watch to spice up his collection? So the prodigal son of AP can aid flipping and make a commission out of it, while others are regulated by rules and can’t act freely, even after passing the mandatory 2 year warranty period? |
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#4 |
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Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: UK
Posts: 333
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Thanks for posting this video, interesting. It seems as though 2 years was not sufficient time to sell, perhaps it's 3? Somewhat unclear of a "Rule"
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Rolex Datejust 126333 Black Dial// Rolex Day-Date Olive// AP Royal Oak Grey Dial 41mm 15510ST// Patek 5205-R Olive// Patek 5167R |
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#5 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2016
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#6 |
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Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Taiwan
Posts: 3,676
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He is not selling his own allocations. Will be interesting to see how this evolves with the new CEO.
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AP 15500ST Grey // 26237ST Beast // 26331ST Panda // 15450ST Blue // 77350CE Bucci // 26240CE 50th // 15407ST || Rolex 116520 White // 116710 BLNR // 126200 Blue || Omega Seamaster NTTD // Speedy Tokyo LE "Rising Sun" // Speedy cal. 321 "Ed White" A timeless classic - Winding, ticking, faithful time - Golden crown of trust |
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#7 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Sarajevo
Posts: 1,835
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One truth is that brands are run by people and people sometimes act like semigods because situation right now is that they have the power to get or not to get allocation of luxury good that in reality no one needs... and we are all a little guilty for that...
On other hand, this collector who cries about having to pay to go to events, loosing a sleep etc looks like the thing he is bothered the most is that he is not getting signature Francoise Brokeback Mountain hugs from the back like some other collectors.... |
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#8 | |
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Join Date: May 2023
Location: Canada
Posts: 40
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#9 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Sarajevo
Posts: 1,835
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An old internal AP joke... you all know what about is a Brokeback Mountain movie right
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#10 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,925
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Quote:
Lolololol brokeback Mountain hugs hahahhahaha You are a legend sir Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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#11 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,925
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Quote:
Austen chu seems like a cool guy and I like his IG but the fact that he is a grey dealer but also a VIP of AP seems a bit ridiculous but what can I say that’s the watch world for you Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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#12 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Sarajevo
Posts: 1,835
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Austen is special guy to AP CEO so he can do whatever he wants. For Francoise he was the role model of new collectors and to be fair Austen brought a bunch of rich Asian kids with unlimited money to AP... unfortunately, some of them are just like a guy from the video...
And even before Austen brought anything to the table, AP allowed him to design the 88 limited Perpetual and host an even... ok, design... guy literally changed the color of the week hand.... And not long after that, he got piece unique Perpetual calendar. Full openwork in steel, the watch we still miss in a regular AP production and one that will be like one of the most popular 39mm perpetuals (openwork in steel, platinum and TT) |
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#13 |
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Location: Uk
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#14 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2019
Real Name: HM
Location: 🇲🇾
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Quote:
I foresee that some very rich and prolific AP collectors (like Sunny) are going to be pissed when they don’t get the “Horoloupe” treatment of being able to have the cake and eat it too, and the discontent would grow from there…. People would start to question - why is he special and why aren’t we? Especially when they have spent a lot of money too with AP. Rules are great if they are enforce equally, or else we might as well just use the wheel of fortune to choose someone to penalise. |
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#15 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Taiwan
Posts: 3,676
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Quote:
__________________
AP 15500ST Grey // 26237ST Beast // 26331ST Panda // 15450ST Blue // 77350CE Bucci // 26240CE 50th // 15407ST || Rolex 116520 White // 116710 BLNR // 126200 Blue || Omega Seamaster NTTD // Speedy Tokyo LE "Rising Sun" // Speedy cal. 321 "Ed White" A timeless classic - Winding, ticking, faithful time - Golden crown of trust |
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#16 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2019
Real Name: HM
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Quote:
I’m not saying Horoloupe can’t be involved in the secondary Watch market. But I think as an AP pseudo-ambassador/ poster boy, it would have been better if Wristcheck stayed out of AP, and focus on Rolex, PP and RM. Like you said, the optics are not great…. I get that it’s not his own allocation, but as AP gets stricter towards flippers, it’s really bad to see their VIP making a profit from other people flipping their AP when he should toe the AP line and encourage NO FLIPPING. |
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#17 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Los Angeles
Watch: 3970
Posts: 3,813
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Austen probably ran it by AP first. Its not a double standard to have a relationship with AP and actually talk and collaborate. Austen doesn't sell his pieces...
Eric Ku is a famous vintage dealer and I see him get a ton of nice APs.. Quote:
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#18 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,925
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Quote:
Lol I see no problem here ;) lol lol Big difference between vintage and the below if you ask me ;) but whatever ![]() Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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#19 |
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Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: USA <> BKK
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I mean……isn’t this exactly what we’ve said we hoped brands would do? Cut off guys who are selling their special allocations?
It’s hard to draw the line though because I also get part of his side, as he simply traded for the colored gold counterparts. But end of day that results in a special allocation reaching the grey market and is a bad look. This is just like somebody gets a SS Jumbo, trades on for a YG Jumbo and then is frustrated they get cut off. Hard to take a side on this one. I almost feel like if he had been super communicative with his SA/boutique it might have alleviated this problem? As he mentioned he talked to other GREY dealers but not his boutique prior to solidifying the transaction. I would just think it’s smart to talk to your boutique before you sell onward a 1/88 timepiece, no? |
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#20 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: UK
Posts: 333
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Quote:
I agree, perhaps he could have run things past/explained his reasons with AP before selling?
__________________
Rolex Datejust 126333 Black Dial// Rolex Day-Date Olive// AP Royal Oak Grey Dial 41mm 15510ST// Patek 5205-R Olive// Patek 5167R |
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#21 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 92
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Totally agree
Quote:
Second, it’s not that difficult to let his Store Manager / GM know before hand. Certainly, they can give a heads up to headquarters, and in some cases, connect to other collectors who may be interested. More importantly, there’s a risk that Store Manager may get dinged or fired for offering TWO super allocated pieces to a client that gets resold to the grey market. Keep in mind, these boutiques put their credibility on the line when they request these pieces - and this can hurt their ability to get future pieces. And sometimes their jobs. In the end, while I understand the frustration, I don’t think it would have been that difficult to just reach out to their AP representative and let them know the ahead of time. Which begs the question - what is the time period that is acceptable to let go of a watch? I assume it’s 5 years… |
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#22 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: HK
Posts: 1,060
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If he was upset for selling one of the many mundane AP's he has, sure, I get it. But no, those are super limited high end Royal Oaks that only VIPs can get. If you weren't sure you would want the watch, don't buy it and then act surprised AP is upset when you sell it for profit.
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#23 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Aug 2022
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 477
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I understand his frustration, however he had to know what this was about all the time. And while they allocated some of the hottest pieces to him, he of course couldn't be bothered. He talks about his LOVE for AP while all there is on the table are Royal Oaks that everybody is longing for.
Also crying about having to pay for everything else beside flight and accomodation reg. that event in Japan is a little too much for me. |
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#24 | |
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Location: USA
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#25 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Real Name: Ash
Location: UK
Watch: AP Royal Oak
Posts: 4,544
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#26 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Real Name: SMD
Location: LGA/EWR/ORD
Watch: AP/PP
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#27 |
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Real Name: Stephen
Location: UK
Watch: AP
Posts: 2,534
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Of all the first world problems, this has to be about the most first world ish problem of them all!
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#28 |
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#29 |
2024 ROLEX DATEJUST41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Real Name: Anthony
Location: Triad
Watch: Me go broke!!!!
Posts: 4,035
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Ok so I watched the entire video. I see both sides
He traded 2 hard to get A P's for 2 even more harder to get discontinued pieces. As he states repeatedly he's still "repping" the brand. I'd like to think he mentioned that on the call he got. Not sure if he stated such in the video. Idk at the end of the day "some" A D's and S A's need to eat some humble pie. This I'm doing you a favor nonsense has gotten out of hand. On the PP forum there's a thread about a PP dealer getting sued and when I reached out to someone familiar with the situation he said with an elitist attitude "yeah the guy is just some pissed off flipper" I started to say well looking at what he bought and how much I dont think the guy is a flipper but I didnt. Wasnt worth my time trying to change someone's mind. A lot of A D's and S A's have forgot what it used to be like when cases were full/customers that could've bought elsewhere for much much less. But stayed loyal. Ok rant over
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#30 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2022
Location: UK
Posts: 9
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I'm on Sunnys side here. He seems to be a genuine collector that is repping AP in many ways and overall good for the brand.
I don't like how AP handled things here and I don't like the gatekeeping by AP where if you sell a watch after having it for years or more that it results in a ban. Tastes change and so does the collecting mindset. The buyer should still be able to do whatever they want and not get banned. Ultimately it's the SAs job to vet the person they are giving the allocations to. The boutiques can do this now because of the current market conditions, however, nothing lasts forever and looking forward to the day when collectors are in power again. |
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