Red Submariner

[john30]

Hello, I would like to ask what everyone thinks about the condition of this red submariner that I'm considering to purchase. It comes in a full set and the price is approx. 32k usd. Its a MK5 (I can't tell from the watch but it's what I have been told). I will greatly appreciate any of your comments. Thank you!

[SgWatchBaron]

Originally Posted by john30

Hello, I would like to ask what everyone thinks about the condition of this red submariner that I'm considering to purchase. It comes in a full set and the price is approx. 32k usd. Its a MK5 (I can't tell from the watch but it's what I have been told). I will greatly appreciate any of your comments. Thank you!

That’s a really exorbitant price. Punched papers? Watch seems to be unpolished. But 32k? Too much...

[john30]

Originally Posted by SgWatchBaron

That’s a really exorbitant price. Punched papers? Watch seems to be unpolished. But 32k? Too much...

Thank you for your reply. Yes it is punched papers with everything else complete. How much do you think this should be?

[redordead]

im curious too as i am looking....but i have seen a couple priced at 30k usd and less so far

[redordead]

Originally Posted by redordead

im curious too as i am looking....but i have seen a couple priced at 30k usd and less so far

with box/papers mk IV and V

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by SgWatchBaron

That’s a really exorbitant price. Punched papers? Watch seems to be unpolished. But 32k? Too much...

Perhaps shockingly, it's not anymore. Here's one at HQ Milton withOUT B&P, fo a lot more...

https://www.hqmilton.com/timepieces/...first-dial-A77

[SgWatchBaron]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

Perhaps shockingly, it's not anymore. Here's one at HQ Milton withOUT B&P, fo a lot more...



https://www.hqmilton.com/timepieces/...first-dial-A77

Rookie mistake to compare a MK 1 metre first to a MK 5 ft first...

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by SgWatchBaron

Rookie mistake to compare a MK 1 metre first to a MK 5 ft first...

Thanks.

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by SgWatchBaron

Rookie mistake to compare a MK 1 metre first to a MK 5 ft first...

Maybe not so Rookie..
The crazy world we are living in now shows the red sub has almost caught up in price with the DRSD..

As to meters first or ft first red 1680's, times have also changed and the prices have almost caught up with each other as well. Many of the new collectors of the world don't want to pay the premium for something as simple as a meters first VS a ft first example.. Unless the dial has some tropical effects, I have noticed this trend within the market the past few years.

Like I said, crazy world.

[roh123]

Originally Posted by SubKing

Maybe not so Rookie..
The crazy world we are living in now shows the red sub has almost caught up in price with the DRSD..

As to meters first or ft first red 1680's, times have also changed and the prices have almost caught up with each other as well. Many of the new collectors of the world don't want to pay the premium for something as simple as a meters first VS a ft first example.. Unless the dial has some tropical effects, I have noticed this trend within the market the past few years.

Like I said, crazy world.

Equal condition and you will see a big difference. But a mint feet first will cost more than an average mters first. Condition is everything nowdays.

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by SubKing

Maybe not so Rookie..
The crazy world we are living in now shows the red sub has almost caught up in price with the DRSD..

As to meters first or ft first red 1680's, times have also changed and the prices have almost caught up with each other as well. Many of the new collectors of the world don't want to pay the premium for something as simple as a meters first VS a ft first example.. Unless the dial has some tropical effects, I have noticed this trend within the market the past few years.

Like I said, crazy world.

[SgWatchBaron]

Originally Posted by SubKing

Maybe not so Rookie..

The crazy world we are living in now shows the red sub has almost caught up in price with the DRSD..



As to meters first or ft first red 1680's, times have also changed and the prices have almost caught up with each other as well. Many of the new collectors of the world don't want to pay the premium for something as simple as a meters first VS a ft first example.. Unless the dial has some tropical effects, I have noticed this trend within the market the past few years.



Like I said, crazy world.

So you’re telling me that I can trade a Single Red for your Double Red? With little or no premium whatsoever? Where do I sign up?

[frankoman]

Originally Posted by SgWatchBaron

Rookie mistake to compare a MK 1 metre first to a MK 5 ft first...

How is comparing two red subs a mistake?

[roh123]

Originally Posted by frankoman

How is comparing two red subs a mistake?

One version is much more rare and expensive than the other.

[SubKing]

In this market and from a dealer, that price to me is in line for a red sub complete set in nice condition

[1675-David]

Thats a really nice example of a great time piece, it's up to you if you think it's worth it but the dealer will get his price you can be pretty sure of that.

[Styles Bitchley]

Pretty sure this would have come with a 93150 bracelet. Not sure why they wouldn't have sourced a period correct bracelet.

Not sure what's going on here with the end link, but I'd check to see that the serial hasn't been worn away by rubbing here.

[roh123]

Originally Posted by Styles Bitchley

Pretty sure this would have come with a 93150 bracelet. Not sure why they wouldn't have sourced a period correct bracelet.

Not sure what's going on here with the end link, but I'd check to see that the serial hasn't been worn away by rubbing here.

It’s a C-I rivet. All correct if the watch was sold in the US. They have one size fit all (or none) ends.

[Styles Bitchley]

Originally Posted by roh123

It’s a C-I rivet. All correct if the watch was sold in the US. They have one size fit all (or none) ends.

Even for a Mk5? I didn't know they were still producing them in the mid to late '70s.

[roh123]

Originally Posted by Styles Bitchley

Even for a Mk5? I didn't know they were still producing them in the mid to late '70s.

They were available until the late 70’s unlike the Swiss 7206 which ended in the 60’s.

[springer]

Originally Posted by Styles Bitchley

Even for a Mk5? I didn't know they were still producing them in the mid to late '70s.

I've had date stamped C&I USA rivet bracelets as late as 1979.

[SgWatchBaron]

Originally Posted by Styles Bitchley

Pretty sure this would have come with a 93150 bracelet. Not sure why they wouldn't have sourced a period correct bracelet.

Not sure what's going on here with the end link, but I'd check to see that the serial hasn't been worn away by rubbing here.

93150 solid link didn’t exist then. It left the factory with a 9315 folded link bracelet.

[springer]

It would be nice to see some photos of the set.

[1675-David]

both the watches mentioned here tick all the boxes and ticked boxes = €€€, or whatever currency you prefer.

[roh123]

Each to their own. In my opinion the meters first red subs will fetch a much higher price as they are much, much more collectible. For less than perfect condition I can imagine the spread is smaller as there aren’t buyers around that would value meters first higher than a similar feet first.

We don’t need to agree on this. I will just congratulate whoever finds a perfect meters first for the same price as a later version.

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by roh123

Each to their own. In my opinion the meters first red subs will fetch a much higher price as they are much, much more collectible. For less than perfect condition I can imagine the spread is smaller as there aren’t buyers around that would value meters first higher than a similar feet first.

We don’t need to agree on this. I will just congratulate whoever finds a perfect meters first for the same price as a later version.

there is no such thing as "perfect"... however, if one does surface, I can promise you it will fetch a huge premium regardless of the ft vs meters scenario.

We don't need to agree on it either, I agree with that. Far more new collectors in the game that I have spoken with time and time again, all who don't want to spend a higher price for a meters first variation. Times are changing whether we like it or not.

condition and full sets are commanding the premiums these days. this is not directed toward tropical variants as stated earlier. It is known about the paint defect that meters first subs had that caused the discoloration. I am just referring to standard meters first examples.

There is a small premium meters vs ft, but the huge premium days are over I feel.

[SgWatchBaron]

Originally Posted by SubKing

there is no such thing as "perfect"... however, if one does surface, I can promise you it will fetch a huge premium regardless of the ft vs meters scenario.



We don't need to agree on it either, I agree with that. Far more new collectors in the game that I have spoken with time and time again, all who don't want to spend a higher price for a meters first variation. Times are changing whether we like it or not.



condition and full sets are commanding the premiums these days. this is not directed toward tropical variants as stated earlier. It is known about the paint defect that meters first subs had that caused the discoloration. I am just referring to standard meters first examples.



There is a small premium meters vs ft, but the huge premium days are over I feel.

Try telling that to a MK 2 Tropical Full Set... Glad to know how you feel, next time I’ll make an even trade of a MK 6 for your MK 1/2...

[swish77]

Originally Posted by roh123

Each to their own. In my opinion the meters first red subs will fetch a much higher price as they are much, much more collectible. For less than perfect condition I can imagine the spread is smaller as there aren’t buyers around that would value meters first higher than a similar feet first.

We don’t need to agree on this. I will just congratulate whoever finds a perfect meters first for the same price as a later version.

I think it depends what kind of collector is buying the watch. For me, the whole meters-first thing is one of the biggest over-hyped features on a vintage Rolex, whether it's a 1680 or 5512/5513. The overall condition is so much more important, and I'd never, ever pay a premium for a meters-first watch.

Gilt vs. matte, yes, that's an important difference, but the order of the depth rating never impressed me as significant enough to fork over more money. Of course meters-first watches are slightly older, but so what? I'd much rather have a crisp feet-first Sub than a tired-looking meters-first Sub. Just one man's opinion after about 20 years of collecting.

[roh123]

Originally Posted by swish77

I think it depends what kind of collector is buying the watch. For me, the whole meters-first thing is one of the biggest over-hyped features on a vintage Rolex, whether it's a 1680 or 5512/5513. The overall condition is so much more important, and I'd never, ever pay a premium for a meters-first watch.

Gilt vs. matte, yes, that's an important difference, but the order of the depth rating never impressed me as significant enough to fork over more money. Of course meters-first watches are slightly older, but so what? I'd much rather have a crisp feet-first Sub than a tired-looking meters-first Sub. Just one man's opinion after about 20 years of collecting.

Well.. There are those that do value rarity high and that means they will fetch a higher price. Not like there are many great examples around in the market. I can agree with you as we both seem to value aesthetics before rarity but regardless a meters first in top collector condition will fetch more money than a feet first in similar quality. You and me are just not the buyers.. When not in collector condition I can see that the difference in price is much less as people buying watches in average condition or worse is less likely to care about rarity at all.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by roh123

Well.. There are those that do value rarity high and that means they will fetch a higher price. Not like there are many great examples around in the market. I can agree with you as we both seem to value aesthetics before rarity but regardless a meters first in top collector condition will fetch more money than a feet first in similar quality. You and me are just not the buyers.. When not in collector condition I can see that the difference in price is much less as people buying watches in average condition or worse is less likely to care about rarity at all.

Rarity and value aren't always the same thing, in watch or art collecting. There are plenty of rare items in this world, or rare variations of a watch, that add no or little additional value. For example, matte 5512s are much more rare than matte 5513s, and the prices for each are not that much different, everything else being equal. And that's for a completely different reference number with a chronometer-rated movement! You would think that's much more important than whether feet or meters is listed first on a dial, IMHO. So much of the meters-first hype was pushed by dealers/sellers jacking up prices because a watch was a little older. That detail has nothing to do with condition.

I realize collectors always ask more for a meters-first watch, but that doesn't mean it sells at that price or is worth the extra money. I think there's a reason that the above-referenced HQ Milton meters-first red Sub hasn't sold for many weeks. It's way over-priced, and the fact that it's meters-first ain't that impressive, really. It's certainly not worth more than double what a feet-first red Sub would fetch, IMHO.