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17 January 2021, 01:18 AM | #1 |
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P.9010 movement has been updated for 2020
In an interesting turn of events, it seems as though Panerai quietly updated their P.9010 movement for 2020 onwards. I recently purchased a PAM1313, which I am totally in love with. Having owned a PAM312 before, I knew my way around Panerai watches quite well. Upon receiving my new timepiece, I was quite surprised to notice that I was unable to stop the seconds hand for accurate time adjustment. I searched various YouTube videos and saw demonstrations of the seconds hacking when the crown was fully pulled out. Being a new piece, I sent it in to the Dallas service center in order to have it examined and fully expecting it to be a manufactures defect and have them correct the issue. Interestingly, and somewhat disconcertingly, it seems as though the movement has been changed and seconds are no longer hacking in this new P.9010 movement. Although not a big deal given the 72 hour power reserve, it is quite a pain in the butt and I cannot for the life of me think of what advantage removing this feature could’ve afforded in the manufacture of the movement. Please see attached email from the Panerai center for those interested.
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17 January 2021, 03:06 AM | #2 |
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Hmmmm, interesting. Would love to see each version of the movement in a side-by-side disassembly video to see what changes were made.
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17 January 2021, 03:32 AM | #3 |
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I was under the impression from reading earlier threads on this forum that panerai is using richemont movements in their watches now. I just purchased 1392. My understanding is that 2392 is the update of 1392 with richemont sourced movement that is not the same as 1392 despite having the same designation on panerai site.
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17 January 2021, 04:01 AM | #4 |
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Curious to see the new finish as well.
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17 January 2021, 05:59 AM | #5 |
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Indeed, this needs more detail.
How can a revision in features equal the same movement number! Last edited by roger.bolton; 17 January 2021 at 06:00 AM.. Reason: extra info |
17 January 2021, 09:29 AM | #6 |
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Knowing how Panerai tends to operate, I'll bet they've swapped it to an "upgraded" movement that is cheaper/easier to service/contains fewer jewels.
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17 January 2021, 09:36 AM | #7 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
I bought a first series PAM682 42mm diver back when they first came out--with transparent caseback and 9010 movement--and loved it. when they, some time later, swapped the movement out for something worse and increased the prices for their "entry level" 42mm submersibles, I decided I was probably done with new panerai. it's just too frustrating--when rolex and other brands are innovating movement technology at every opportunity, even in minor ways, for a brand like this to be moving in the opposite direction just seems to say they aren't interested in catering to a consumer that cares about this sort of thing. |
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17 January 2021, 09:42 AM | #8 |
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Well the finishing is definitely cost saving. Shame, I was quite taken with the 1314, but I didn’t really trust panerai to begin with. This didn’t help things.
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17 January 2021, 09:42 AM | #9 |
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That’s a margin move for sure. My 1209 has the richmont movement I think (42mm as you said) but it hacks. The minute hand also jumps when you push crown back in, I think my cartier Santos did that too
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17 January 2021, 10:14 AM | #10 |
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I just checked on my recently arrived 1118. Confirmed there is no hacking nor seconds reset in the movement. Solid case back so I can't compare movement finishing.
I still love the watch and remain a big fan of Panerai. However, this is disappointing news as I really enjoy that feature. While I don't want to go down too pessimistic a rabbit hole on their motives, I'd be very interested to know exactly what was changed in the movement and why? |
17 January 2021, 10:41 AM | #11 | |
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This news will be a nuclear explosion in the watch world once it gets reported if it is to be true. Directly from the Panerai web site as of 01/16/2021: https://www.panerai.com/us/en/know-h...ts/p-9010.html The automatic P.9010 calibre, entirely developed and created in the Panerai Manufacture in Neuchâtel, has central hour and minute hands, the small seconds dial at 9 o’clock and the date at 3 o’clock. The energy necessary to accumulate a power reserve of three days – the basic standard for Panerai in-house movements – is stored in two spring barrels whose springs are wound by an oscillating weight operating in both directions. Consisting of 200 components including 31 jewels, the calibre has a diameter of 13¾ lignes and it is 6 mm thick. The balance, fixed by a bridge with twin supports, oscillates at a frequency of 28,800 vibrations per hour (4 Hz). It is associated with the device which stops it as soon as the winding crown is pulled out, enabling the watch to be perfectly synchronised with a reference signal. In the P.9010 calibre the hours can be conveniently adjusted without interfering with the movement of the minute hand, thanks to the device which directly moves only the relative hand in jumps of one hour forward or backwards. This function is very useful when changing time zones or moving between summer time and winter time, and conveniently the adjustment of the hour hand is automatically connected to the date indicator. At the 46 second mark in the video in the link provided shows the crown pulled and the hacking second enabled. This is what we call a ”smoking gun” in my companies legal dept. |
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18 January 2021, 12:39 AM | #12 | |
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Again, would love to see a video of the movement being taken apart. This would do a lot to dispel any rumors / speculation while also showcasing why this change was made. i do agree the movement must have a new designation (call it 9010b or some such).
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17 January 2021, 10:34 AM | #13 |
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Makes sense that it’s a cost cutting move, which probably also explains the lack of display case back. The P.9010 is nice enough that it really should be displayed. But the email stated that the finishing has changed to a sandblasted one, so maybe they thought it wouldn’t be a pretty to show. Really a shame that a reputed watch maker (and at this price point) would take measures to cut back on quality. I’m sorry, but the lack of hacking seconds is really inexcusable - that’s present in even the most basic of movements.
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17 January 2021, 01:29 PM | #14 |
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Completely agree. Which is exactly why I sent my watch in to the Panerai service center to begin with. Unfortunately, I am not sure if there’s much that can be done about if. All they would need to say is that “the website isn’t updated”. Rolling my Eyes!!!
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17 January 2021, 02:15 PM | #15 |
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Disappointing. As a newbie to the brand, albeit with a 16 yo watch, I have been enjoying looking at the innovative materials used on some of the newer pieces. But it would really bother me if I felt they were cutting corners and on a backward trajectory in movements.
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17 January 2021, 10:54 PM | #16 | |
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This is no different than buying a new Ford Raptor 4x4 and finding out Ford removed the 4x4 transmission, didn’t disclose the change and is still calling it a Raptor 4x4. Now you have a two wheel drive Raptor and last year models had a 4x4. How much resale value or desirability do you think your new truck will have but most important lacks a feature you need and paid for. |
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17 January 2021, 03:27 PM | #17 |
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I have a deposit for a 1119. Seriously disappointing
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17 January 2021, 04:58 PM | #18 |
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Not impressed
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17 January 2021, 09:46 PM | #19 |
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I just checked my 1661, warranty card marked Aug 2020 and it hacks.
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17 January 2021, 10:19 PM | #20 |
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Maybe they put a cheaper movement in those models with solid back case? Still remember the Brooklyn Bridge.
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17 January 2021, 10:35 PM | #21 |
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If they really did this, it should no longer be called the p9010 movement. How confusing going forward.
Well it has the p9010 movement but I don’t know which version it is, hacking. Or non-hacking. I hope they don’t make these changes to hacking watches that come in for service. |
18 January 2021, 12:29 AM | #22 |
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I have a brand new 1313. When the crown is fully pulled out, the seconds hand stops. It does not reset to zero, but it stops.
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18 January 2021, 12:38 AM | #23 |
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18 January 2021, 12:41 AM | #24 |
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18 January 2021, 01:09 AM | #25 |
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18 January 2021, 01:34 AM | #26 |
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If it helps, the P9010 is a upgrade from the P9000 movement. Here is its disassembly of the P9000 and you can see the lever that stops the movement halfway down the page under the “gear train”. Pretty standard feature. I have a lot of experience with the P.9010 and movements in general. The P.9010 is the best in-house movement Panerai has ever produce to date with its design and features. There is no reason this hacking lever would ever be removed other than a completely different movement is being used. The notification with the finishing being changed sends up flags it might be a Frankenstein piece together movement using outsourced parts to create a P9010 like clone. Absolutely bizarre unless this might be a temporary fix to a Covid parts shortage. The P.9010 has been out awhile now and is well established and reliable so there is no major deficiencies that needs addressed.
The P9010 is used in the top flagship Panerai models. You can tinker with the entry level watches but this would be Panerai voluntarily committing brand suicide. https://watchesbysjx.com/2014/09/exp...-together.html This will give you some info between the P.9000 and P.9010. https://monochrome-watches.com/intro...ays-automatic/ |
18 January 2021, 01:57 AM | #27 |
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Agree 100% with your assessment. If you were in this position, what would you do?
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18 January 2021, 02:13 AM | #28 | |
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Then I would contact your original dealer where you purchased the watch and tell them the same. I personally would go to whatever leverage I had to do to either get a original P.9010 movement or my money back including the fraud/purchase protection of my CC. No way would I ever own any movement without a hacking second. The movement is so good it is capable for under 2 seconds a day. I am getting around +1 a day with my P9010. Without a hacking movement you could have to live with a + or - 30 second out of sync movement. The only way you can synchronize a non hacking movement is letting the mainspring/power reserve go dead and then try to start the movement again near the correct atomic time. Once you do that, you probably will have to adjust the minute hand to a marker when the second hand hits zero. This would be a huge PIA with a $400 watch and absurd for any automatic movement over $1500.00. |
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18 January 2021, 03:11 AM | #29 |
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on the panerai official website, it still said the p.9010 has the hacking second function.
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18 January 2021, 03:59 AM | #30 |
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I have to admit, after thinking it over, if they've changed the movement without notification, it's leaving me feeling a bit salty.
I've gone ahead and emailed both the boutique SA as well as Panerai concierge politely asking about this. I will update everyone once I get a response. |
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