The new sub hype has finished even before it started

[kahoot]

I have got my sub ceramic and I really like it but what I feel is that it's demand is no where near if you compare it with the gmt ceramic when it was launched.
There is no waiting list for the sub ceramic with so many of the dealers I know, I find it very strange I think rolex have gone over the board with the price or it is something else which I fail to understand ???

[Rani Drama]

I like my sub. i ordered it 3 months before it was released up here with a deposit. But frankly right now it feels just like an every day tool watch to me now. The honeymoon is a bit over. Is it a nice watch absolutely. I think this means i need to get something a bit more flashy. a watch with PCL's might do it now. But the new explorer II might be calling my name :S

[masterkiller]

Originally Posted by Rani Drama

But frankly right now it feels just like an every day tool watch to me now.

Job done, that is EXACTLY what it is design for and what it is and what it should be...

Could't ask for more IMHO!

/masterkiller

[subdownunder]

Probably because the GMT iic is a totally new design whilst the sub is just an update that looks just like the old sub to the untrained eye (read Rolex nerd)

Also, the GMT iic was realeased at the hieght of the property bubble when everyone was spending like there was no tomorrow and using their houses as piggy banks to fund every luxury item that they desired.

The Subc on the other hand was released into the aftermath of this when everyone has a hangover and is reluctent to spend therefore not so many marginal buyers.

I am seeing this effect with higher priced guitars/cars and other luxury items..... same situation

[petespendthrift]

Price has got to be a major factor. In late 2007, my GMT2c cost me $2500 dollars less than they currently retail for. I would be willing to bet GMT2c sales are tailing off as well.

Rolex are high quality but mass produced, everyday, sports watches - not low volume production, handmade, exquisite masterpieces bought by the super rich. The 2007 price was to me, an extravagance that I was prepared to stretch to. The current prices are now way outside those boundaries and I have no plans of buying another new one. I think I am probably fairly representative of the average steel Rolex buyer so sales figures must have dropped significantly.

Rolex are moving towards lower volumes of sales but with higher margins. Presumably they hope to maintain profits but increase the exclusivity of the brand - inevitably this will change their typical customer base. I rather hope they fail as I prefer the brand to be more true to it's designs - as everyday watches for the middle classes. Luckily Omega, IWC and all the other competing brands have had the same idea and have also been raising their prices massively. The result is a saturated market with not enough customers.

[Clogger]

Originally Posted by petespendthrift

Price has got to be a major factor. In late 2007, my GMT2c cost me $2500 dollars less than they currently retail for. I would be willing to bet GMT2c sales are tailing off as well.

Rolex are high quality but mass produced, everyday, sports watches - not low volume production, handmade, exquisite masterpieces bought by the super rich. The 2007 price was to me, an extravagance that I was prepared to stretch to. The current prices are now way outside those boundaries and I have no plans of buying another new one. I think I am probably fairly representative of the average steel Rolex buyer so sales figures must have dropped significantly.

Rolex are moving towards lower volumes of sales but with higher margins. Presumably they hope to maintain profits but increase the exclusivity of the brand - inevitably this will change their typical customer base. I rather hope they fail as I prefer the brand to be more true to it's designs - as everyday watches for the middle classes. Luckily Omega, IWC and all the other competing brands have had the same idea and have also been raising their prices massively. The result is a saturated market with not enough customers.

Agreed.

I really like the new Subs, but I really dont think the SS models will be worth it after the next price increase.

Also I seriously doubt the general public will notice it's actually a new model.

[Bullyterrier]

Originally Posted by petespendthrift

Price has got to be a major factor. In late 2007, my GMT2c cost me $2500 dollars less than they currently retail for. I would be willing to bet GMT2c sales are tailing off as well.

Rolex are high quality but mass produced, everyday, sports watches - not low volume production, handmade, exquisite masterpieces bought by the super rich. The 2007 price was to me, an extravagance that I was prepared to stretch to. The current prices are now way outside those boundaries and I have no plans of buying another new one. I think I am probably fairly representative of the average steel Rolex buyer so sales figures must have dropped significantly.

Rolex are moving towards lower volumes of sales but with higher margins. Presumably they hope to maintain profits but increase the exclusivity of the brand - inevitably this will change their typical customer base. I rather hope they fail as I prefer the brand to be more true to it's designs - as everyday watches for the middle classes. Luckily Omega, IWC and all the other competing brands have had the same idea and have also been raising their prices massively. The result is a saturated market with not enough customers.

Isn't that what Rolex did to combat the Japanese quartz invasion years ago.
While other companies were trying to compete (and failing) price wise with the Japanese quartz pieces, Rolex put their prices up and aimed at the more 'exclusive' market.

[mike]

Originally Posted by petespendthrift

Price has got to be a major factor. In late 2007, my GMT2c cost me $2500 dollars less than they currently retail for. I would be willing to bet GMT2c sales are tailing off as well.

Rolex are high quality but mass produced, everyday, sports watches - not low volume production, handmade, exquisite masterpieces bought by the super rich. The 2007 price was to me, an extravagance that I was prepared to stretch to. The current prices are now way outside those boundaries and I have no plans of buying another new one. I think I am probably fairly representative of the average steel Rolex buyer so sales figures must have dropped significantly.

Rolex are moving towards lower volumes of sales but with higher margins. Presumably they hope to maintain profits but increase the exclusivity of the brand - inevitably this will change their typical customer base. I rather hope they fail as I prefer the brand to be more true to it's designs - as everyday watches for the middle classes. Luckily Omega, IWC and all the other competing brands have had the same idea and have also been raising their prices massively. The result is a saturated market with not enough customers.

Nicely said Pete.

I wonder as well if the ceramic hype wasn't already abated with the introduction of the IIc as well as the DSSD.

Wonder what would have happened if the intros had been reversed? Even if the Sub had come out before the DS.

[swiss_seth]

Originally Posted by subdownunder

Probably because the GMT iic is a totally new design whilst the sub is just an update that looks just like the old sub to the untrained eye (read Rolex nerd)

Also, the GMT iic was realeased at the hieght of the property bubble when everyone was spending like there was no tomorrow and using their houses as piggy banks to fund every luxury item that they desired.

The Subc on the other hand was released into the aftermath of this when everyone has a hangover and is reluctent to spend therefore not so many marginal buyers.

I am seeing this effect with higher priced guitars/cars and other luxury items..... same situation

+1 yes, this

[ayecarumba]

Originally Posted by subdownunder

Probably because the GMT iic is a totally new design whilst the sub is just an update that looks just like the old sub to the untrained eye (read Rolex nerd)

Also, the GMT iic was realeased at the hieght of the property bubble when everyone was spending like there was no tomorrow and using their houses as piggy banks to fund every luxury item that they desired.

The Subc on the other hand was released into the aftermath of this when everyone has a hangover and is reluctent to spend therefore not so many marginal buyers.

I am seeing this effect with higher priced guitars/cars and other luxury items..... same situation

X2 on this one....well said.


--Paul

[Andad]

Interesting summation Pete.

[MikeJaye]

yep...hardly any demand for the black...these can even be picked up for under list now from grey dealers in UK. Even the new green sub seems not to have much impact here in the UK...even though it is literally just started to come out here the premiums are only £500 on the two that I have seen advertised on other UK forums, and I'm not even sure they are shifting at that price. When you compare to premiums on GV's and DSSD when they came out this is tiny.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by MikeJaye

yep...hardly any demand for the black...these can even be picked up for under list now from grey dealers in UK. Even the new green sub seems not to have much impact here in the UK...even though it is literally just started to come out here the premiums are only £500 on the two that I have seen advertised on other UK forums, and I'm not even sure they are shifting at that price. When you compare to premiums on GV's and DSSD when they came out this is tiny.

Could be that the public just don't like the new Sub range or it could be down to price etc.But at the moment looking around the various forums I would be surprised if the new subs sell in the same proportion volume as say the 16610 did.

[Bullyterrier]

Originally Posted by padi56

Could be that the public just don't like the new Sub range or it could be down to price etc.But at the moment looking around the various forums I would be surprised if the new subs sell in the same proportion volume as say the 16610 did.

I would be surprised as well Padi if they sell like the old style.

Also releasing them in a global recession might not of helped things either.

[esm]

Originally Posted by kahoot

I have got my sub ceramic and I really like it but what I feel is that it's demand is no where near if you compare it with the gmt ceramic when it was launched.

dare i say the "recession" may have something to do with it, especially in the UK? similar thing goes for the SS Daytona at the moment.


congrats on the Sub-C though

[al_bongo]

It's the economy, the gmt a new design? A minor alteration to the movement and a green 24 hour hand doesn't make a new design in my book.

[Patrick Lim]

Same here in Singapore. Lukewarm demand for the Sub C.

Asking prices are falling in the grey market.
Personally I think the new price is too great even for the new classic.
Am waiting for a miracle... that prices will fall further... HAHAHA

[Otto]

Originally Posted by kahoot

I have got my sub ceramic and I really like it but what I feel is that it's demand is no where near if you compare it with the gmt ceramic when it was launched.
There is no waiting list for the sub ceramic with so many of the dealers I know, I find it very strange I think rolex have gone over the board with the price or it is something else which I fail to understand ???

I was surprised to find several below list price when they first came out in Tokyo. Normally, new models sell for a huge premium; but the list price is already high.

[Watch Professor]

I know that the GMT IIC and the new Sub Date are very similar, but for some reason, I think that the GMT looks better in the beeefier case. Maybe it's due to the PCL'S or the different bezel. This being the case, in my opinion, I bought both the GMT IIC and the older 16610. I am very happy with both, and have no plans to purchase the new Sub ceramic.

[jnkay]

Originally Posted by Watch Professor

I know that the GMT IIC and the new Sub Date are very similar, but for some reason, I think that the GMT looks better in the beeefier case. Maybe it's due to the PCL'S or the different bezel. This being the case, in my opinion, I bought both the GMT IIC and the older 16610. I am very happy with both, and have no plans to purchase the new Sub ceramic.

Same here. I don't feel compelled to buy a 116610.

[dalip]

Originally Posted by mike

Nicely said Pete.

I wonder as well if the ceramic hype wasn't already abated with the introduction of the IIc as well as the DSSD.

Wonder what would have happened if the intros had been reversed? Even if the Sub had come out before the DS.

Interesting point Mike. If I did not have the DSSD I would probably look at the subC. It may have fitted the bill.

But I am simply not I interested and that's because of the DSSD and not the sub lv which I also own.

[normandy]

It is too expensive

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by normandy

It is too expensive

Agreed..................and to make matters worse, ADs aren't prepared to discount at all..............for now, at least.

JJ

[casadecamporolex]

Obviously, Rolex does not care about the recession worldwide. They are selling a new watch in China almost every minute.
For them to be raising prices in this market is risky by our notion.
However, they do not care.

Also, margins are not increasing. Cost to retail percentage spread is smaller now and with discounting rampant in the USA, margins have never been less.

And look what an AD has to own to be in business; that is not negotiable.

[snowbird]

Originally Posted by casadecamporolex

Obviously, Rolex does not care about the recession worldwide. They are selling a new watch in China almost every minute.
For them to be raising prices in this market is risky by our notion.
However, they do not care.

Also, margins are not increasing. Cost to retail percentage spread is smaller now and with discounting rampant in the USA, margins have never been less.

And look what an AD has to own to be in business; that is not negotiable.

I think you're right. There was an intersesting article in Watch Time that basically said the China market is keeping the luxury watch industry afloat right now. It's certainly down in the Americas and Europe, and the Swiss customs data show watch exports are way off the 2007 numbers.

The trick is . . . I would bet many of those consumers in China will continue buying only as long as a brand is seen as a true global brand with robust sales worldwide.

[chris russell]

an item like a watch. I like it for my own reasons, or I don't. I'm not sure why anyone else would care either. I got a generous discounted price on the one I had pre-ordered and I'm happy with that. The best-known Toronto dealer is allowing over 20% discounts on all stock, including the Sub-c, so the recession continues to assist in finding bargains.

[Speed]

So perhaps the scarcity of GMTllCs is a planned move to sway folks to the Sub?

Silly thought.

[Rani Drama]

At first i was looking at the GMT IIc when i wanted to buy a rolex. The complication was a positive the case was great. The PCL's add a bit of dressiness to the watch but then i decided to go with the Sub ceramic based on versatility. Do i wish i got the GMT IIc sometimes i do. I find it sits better on the wrist the caseback on the sub makes it sit a bit too high sometimes especially when it slides down my wrist and sits on my ulna.

But a sub is a sub and that will always have appeal. But you are right for a tool watch it is a little much. The GMT i would say value wise is a better fit in this price bracket. My cousin just bought a GMT IIc so when i go visit him later this year we will see what's up.

[mtrunner]

Is it possible Rolex made a ton of Sub Ceramics and the market is just getting flooded with them? And then you add in the fact there is a big price increase and a recession going on. Probably a combination of factors but I do wonder if Rolex just made that many SubCs that the market is saturated with them already.

[sakuraba]

Originally Posted by mtrunner

Is it possible Rolex made a ton of Sub Ceramics and the market is just getting flooded with them? And then you add in the fact there is a big price increase and a recession going on. Probably a combination of factors but I do wonder if Rolex just made that many SubCs that the market is saturated with them already.

+1 Exactly what I was thinking.

IMHO Rolex made sure supply was bountiful with their popular reference. But as with all price increases, demand typically slacks off. Coupled with the (perceived) increase in production numbers, this ends up with supply outstripping demand.

Just my