Is it just me or has there been a general decline in Panerai luster?

[Joey_V]

Not sure if it's been just me no longer having my 312 from before and not following the Panerai board as much as I used to, but surfing through the thread here and there - I've noticed that there's been a decline in Panerai interest or allure.

Especially with SIHH 2013 with lackluster showing, it seems like the allure nowadays is nowhere near what I "felt" it was 2-3 years ago.

What's the consensus? Am I totally way off base?

Thanks!

[htc8p]

that is why i bought the planet ocean last year. and i think im sticking with omega.

i think panerai is losing in innovation. and their design can only go so far.

[jvo300]

The years are starting to blur for me (I guess I'm getting old). However, we just came out of a period with the 372, 422, 390, Bronzo, new Cali models. Not too shabby.

It's hard for any company to continue to top itself. So 2013 doesn't seem to hold any serious home runs. I think it may be too early to say the brand is losing its luster. Hopefully 2014 will see the return of the 44mm (bronze, PVD, or something closer to 5218-201a/203b like the 360). That would be exciting -- at least for me!

[Z-Sub]

There are always the older models for me to choose from since I only have one.

[rockmastermike]

Originally Posted by Z-Sub

There are always the older models for me to choose from since I only have one.

[Cru Jones]

No, I don't think so (372, 422, 448, 449). There just seems to be a lot of overreaction to SIHH 2013.

[advocatia]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

No, I don't think so (372, 422, 448, 449). There just seems to be a lot of overreaction to SIHH 2013.

I agree 100%.

[iLLGT2]

I think there is, indeed... And it was before this SIHH 2013 release !

I haven't felt the same way about this company since even the SIHH 2012 releases... Same old BS to be honest, remakes something, make it worse slap 500 LE on it and create a crazy frenzy/hype and demand !

Terrible practice to true risti's and aficionados ! They always wind up in the wrong hands too

[bcacncnc]

My preference for PAMs seems to stop at the "classic" models, eg. 000, 210, 232, 190 etc. So yeah, I'm generally not too keen on the newer variants. Still interesting to see what comes out each year...

[subtona]

Now that you mention it, it does seem that way.

Or

Maybe its just perspective?

[RUpanerai]

After talking it over with my boys and thinking about it more, as others have said, Panerai cannot drop smash hits at SIHH every year and this year. I did notice that they actually stuck to a theme, 1940 cases, Subs, and Regattas / Chronos were the lines they focused on for 2013... while not my cup of tea, I'm actually glad that they didn't come out with 4 or 5 models I wanted like at SIHH last year. My fiance and wallet are VERY happy with the new collection for that reason. =)

I myself was disappointed in the show in this years offerings, not only because they didn't produce many things I like, but more so by WHAT they created, some of the designs and colors left me scratching my head. The first watch I saw yesterday was that Multicolored regatta and that shocked me to say the least when I woke up, and I that got me a bit irked at the rest of the line up. Now, sitting back, I'm glad that not every year Panerai produces the "got to have it watch" and they produce them for masses and others who do not share my taste, it helps me pick up the pieces I want while others get pieces I do not want and it gives me a breather for a year. I will say that after last SIHH where Panerai hit it out of the freaking park, I was expecting a lot from the brand as I'm sure many of you were as well. You don't appreciate the good without a little bit of the bad. There are a few cool pieces this year but nothing that truly speaks to what I believe is the "core" of Panerai but, each and every person here is entitled to believe what they think the "core" of what Panerai will and should be in the past and in the future, a tool watch, a fashion watch, a horological marvel, etc....

I am happy we all have differences in opinion and taste and that there is a little something for everyone.

[B. Doggy]

There have been many long-time collectors moving away from Panerai in the past year. Why? Because they keep coming out with new versions of what were supposed to be LE/SE models. They killed their own secondary market values. Personally, I still like Panerai and I think there will always be a place for one in my collection.

[malnik]

Originally Posted by B. Doggy

There have been many long-time collectors moving away from Panerai in the past year. Why? Because they keep coming out with new versions of what were supposed to be LE/SE models. They killed their own secondary market values. Personally, I still like Panerai and I think there will always be a place for one in my collection.

I'm digging up an old thread. It's the Q4 of 2016 now and Panerai is definitely in the decline. The secondary market value is dropping and I'm loving it! I've been eyeing on a particular "LE" modeling. One online reseller has it and has been on his listings for years. Today I checked and the new listing price is 20% drop from last year! Maybe it's time for me to finally pick it up.

[nick c]

Originally Posted by malnik

I'm digging up an old thread. It's the Q4 of 2016 now and Panerai is definitely in the decline. The secondary market value is dropping and I'm loving it! I've been eyeing on a particular "LE" modeling. One online reseller has it and has been on his listings for years. Today I checked and the new listing price is 20% drop from last year! Maybe it's time for me to finally pick it up.

Now it's the time just before Christmas go for it

[blacke90]

Reviving an old thread here. Wanted to get your thoughts on Panerai and how they are being perceived these days. It seems numerous good deals are available on the secondary market still. I love the look of the Luminor Due, but disappointed to hear of they switched to a snap backed case and the usage of spring bars.

Originally Posted by malnik

I'm digging up an old thread. It's the Q4 of 2016 now and Panerai is definitely in the decline. The secondary market value is dropping and I'm loving it! I've been eyeing on a particular "LE" modeling. One online reseller has it and has been on his listings for years. Today I checked and the new listing price is 20% drop from last year! Maybe it's time for me to finally pick it up.

[Travelller]

Originally Posted by blacke90

Reviving an old thread here. Wanted to get your thoughts on Panerai and how they are being perceived these days. It seems numerous good deals are available on the secondary market still. I love the look of the Luminor Due, but disappointed to hear of they switched to a snap backed case and the usage of spring bars.

The snap-on casebacks were introduced to provide the consumer with a "new" entry-level price segment. Of course it's the same prices we paid for the screw-on entry-levels five years ago, but that's the watch-market inflation for you. Imagine wanting a Panerai only to find out the price of entry started out at $10K... !

Aside from that, general sales of new PAMs is just as strong as ever while the vintage market has seen a fall due to, in part, some horror stories of frankenwatches being auctioned off at well-known [auction] houses, etc.

The PAM 721 "Kampfschwimmer" is today's 232, the 671 "Blonzo" is today's 372... I could go on & on. There is no shortage of buyers for the desirable models and as has been the case for the past 10 years, there are numerous models geared towards the general consumer in between.

If I had unlimited funds, I could think of a half-dozen models (incl. the 721 & 671) I would love to buy...


Bonati may be gone, but OP is still going strong! Angelo, thanks for the 911, btw

[blacke90]

Thanks for your input. I get the "entry-level" pricepoint/positioning. I wish Panerai should've kept the screw-on, thus allowing them to be true to their DNA, story, and etc. I assume most Panerai owners will never engage in extreme water activities with their watch.--soo snap-on casebacks shouldn't matter.

Originally Posted by Travelller

The snap-on casebacks were introduced to provide the consumer with a "new" entry-level price segment. Of course it's the same prices we paid for the screw-on entry-levels five years ago, but that's the watch-market inflation for you. Imagine wanting a Panerai only to find out the price of entry started out at $10K... !

Aside from that, general sales of new PAMs is just as strong as ever while the vintage market has seen a fall due to, in part, some horror stories of frankenwatches being auctioned off at well-known [auction] houses, etc.

The PAM 721 "Kampfschwimmer" is today's 232, the 671 "Blonzo" is today's 372... I could go on & on. There is no shortage of buyers for the desirable models and as has been the case for the past 10 years, there are numerous models geared towards the general consumer in between.

If I had unlimited funds, I could think of a half-dozen models (incl. the 721 & 671) I would love to buy...


Bonati may be gone, but OP is still going strong! Angelo, thanks for the 911, btw

[belligero]

Originally Posted by B. Doggy

There have been many long-time collectors moving away from Panerai in the past year. Why? Because they keep coming out with new versions of what were supposed to be LE/SE models. They killed their own secondary market values.[...]

This 2013 post was a very prescient one.

Add in their continual reliability and service problems, and there's no wonder that they're getting hammered.

[fullcourt]

Originally Posted by belligero

Add in their continual reliability and service problems, and there's no wonder that they're getting hammered.

Are you speaking from first hand experience about their 'continual reliability and service problems' or what you've 'heard'? Just curious, thx

[chemistman]

Originally Posted by fullcourt

Are you speaking from first hand experience about their 'continual reliability and service problems' or what you've 'heard'? Just curious, thx

I can speak for one myself. Recently had my 10 year old pam serviced. Dial was chipping and dust starts appearing inside the watch for no reason so I have no choice but to go back to AD.

Service time was about 2 months from Australia pam center (which isn't too bad). Came back with new dial, serviced movement, polished case (not as well done as Rolex, as some marks are very visible still) and worst lume (I have no idea how this happened but the lume on the marker were uneven- maybe it's an old dial ?)

Anyhow the bill comes to exactly DOUBLE for what I've paid RSC to overhaul my explorer 2 last year. Mind you I've actually broke the ExpII movement - so it was overhauled, polished and also fitted with new bezel. I pretty much got a new watch back, in one month time.

From now on I'm only keen on ETA based pam. At least you can get it fixed from your locals. But then again I'm screwed if something happens to the dial or hands.

(BTW the serviced pam came back in a cheap looking travel case with some brown smear. I hope the watchmaker enjoyed his food while doing the job)

Does make you think twice before buying the next pam. Such lovely watch though ...

[mfer]

I would call it alot of passion, both positive and negative. Also, people are also very critical anytime new stuff comes out. This occurs everwhere IMHO, even Rolex. When the "smurf" came out, the majority seemed to hate it. When the latest sky dweller, the same. Now, these models seem to be very hot.

Also, I think some people are being very critical of SE's. They look at them as being an investment. I can see it slightly, but it is a risk as with any investment. I think the two bronzo's are different enough, but hey I'm not that partial to either.

Also, we are the enthusiast community, but the vast majority of watch buyers are not enthusiast, they are people who just want a cool watch. That means chronos and busier dials for the most part. Enthusiast want DNA, simple, etc.

I'm glad they did "only" 3 SE's this year. Also, they didn't start poping out Rad 1940 cases that compete with the 399. They are taking there time there, making a date version for the more average collector, giving the 399 owners time to appreciate their pieces with the beautiful movement. I think they did this poorly with the 425 release v 373. I would be very pissed if I bought a 373. I feel that is what some 382 owners are feeling now (those that bought after-market prices especially).

I'm not jumping ship on Panerai. I just got a 232 and am happy as a clam. I know that one day they may a similiar model, but I'm still happy. I won't be estatic about the new model, but I'm willing to accept it. It just needs to be more different, not like the 425 (ss pig) v 373 (pt no pig).

[feferman]

Does anyone in the trade publish Panerai sales figures (or something similar)? I work in corporate finance and will see if Richmont breaks this out in any of their government disclosures and report. Experience tells me that if they can avoid doing so, they will not break out watch sales by brand; if anyone is interested, let's try to identify any trends!

And here is a picture of my first Panerai.

[Travelller]

Originally Posted by jvo300

...we just came out of a period with the 372, 422, 390, Bronzo, new Cali models. Not too shabby...

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

No, I don't think so (372, 422, 448, 449)...

Originally Posted by mfer

... I'm not jumping ship on Panerai. I just got a 232 and am happy as a clam...

what they all said (although I'm not sure why clams are happy in general... ) Sure there were unnecessary models thrown into the mix, some perhaps too similar. But if I were to be so lucky as to own a SE 448, I wouldn't be offended by the 424, which allows "the masses" the opportunity to own a cali too; that's because the 448 is still unique, by definition of houses like Rolex and Panerai, where changes are registered in the most minute of details... .

Gold hands vs. black or SS hands on the very same dial in the very same case is "night and day" to a Paneristi...

As for 2013, it wasn't all bad. I bet each of us here can find at least one he/she wouldn't mind owning - for me, it's the 364; look quickly and you'll see the 305. But that "2500m" designation on the dial makes it a world of a difference...

[jvo300]

I think that part of the issue here is the definition of SE/LE. Those who pay a premium for these watches should beware of the potential for value erosion (real or perceived). Panerai has retraced enough old ground that its hard to know if anything will really be SE/LE over the long run.

Better to think of everything as a regular production when making a buying decision so as to not impart too high a premium on the limited nature of the watch. It's hard not to empathize with folks who shelled out $25k+ for a Bronzo on the secondary market who now see the potential to get a 507 for half the price. Live and learn.

[superdog]

not from me. i am just getting into them...

love my new 356

[kilyung]

Originally Posted by superdog

not from me. i am just getting into them...

love my new 356

Congrats Seth!! But dude, my wife would kill me if my home office looked like that.

[masterserg]

I don't really care ... I am a happy camper with my 233 which I plan to keep for as long as I am on the right side of the ground. I just can't get tired of looking at it!

[mikeycanuk]

I've got my one Pam and will stick to new shoes.

On a side note why the 48mm obsession? My 243 fits but I can't imagine how monstrous the 48mm divers would be.

[kilyung]

Originally Posted by mikeycanuk

I've got my one Pam and will stick to new shoes.

On a side note why the 48mm obsession? My 243 fits but I can't imagine how monstrous the 48mm divers would be.

It's 47mm and they're most historically accurate to the brand.

[Puffy]

Richemont keeps churning out the same old crap year after year....

Their sales are also less than impressive. maybe Panerai has become a dog...

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