Opinions on 1680

[ossodiseppia]

It was suggested that I post my request in the this forum.

The other day I stumbled upon what looks like a decent 1680. I'm posting the seller's pictures and description.

This ad was placed February 25: Rolex Submariner (Ref: 1680) (660ft - 200m) (SN: 6152xxx), outstanding dial. 93150 bracelet. Has original sales receipt, but no Rolex paperwork. Serviced and running well. $4,850

The seller advertised this watch back on November 29, 2008: Rolex Submariner (Ref: 1680) (660ft - 200m) (SN: 6152xxx), outstanding dial. 93150 bracelet. Has original sales receipt, but no Rolex paperwork. $6,250

There appears to be a significant price reduction which makes this watch a very tempting purchase. I have yet to develop an eye for refurnished hands and face. The edges of the case appear to be fairly crisp indicating only one or two buffings. The band seems to be in ok shape as well.

Hmm, I may have to revise this. The dial looks like it's been redone. The lines of the 6, 9, and 12 markers just aren't very crisp.

I would appreciate any comments. Thanks.

[Orchi]

Err buddy Brian...warm welcome to this TRF's WatchOut forum...!

The Flip-Lock buckle of the bracelet had been Re-Buffed quite heavily...
even to the extent that the Coronet can hardly be seen...
The rest of the bracelet combo looks decent considering it might have
been on the watch for long time.

The Case looks decent also...BUT you really need to show the Dial
a little closer to be able to see for more certainly whether or not
the Dial is in its original state or it may have been Re-lumed before...

The bezel looks OK...but the Hands look to be that it might have been
a later replacement(Luminova)...perhaps you need to ask the Seller
whether or not the Hands n the Dial would still illuminate in the dark...

The Date font "6" looks bolder...which may have been enhanced...

For such a Vintage watch...you really need to see the backcase too...
inside n out...to see if the Case has any excessive sign of corrosion
to the case n caseback cover...n whether the Cal. 1570 movement
is clean or not...

It's also important to know whether the movement works smoothly...
with certain degree of accuracy or not...

More pictures please...

[ossodiseppia]

Thanks Orchi. These are the only pictures I have. I took them from the seller's add. I will ask for more pictures when I speak with him on the phone today. I too noticed the 6 to be a bit on the large side but didn't think much of it.

[greekbum]

The seller if I am not mistaken wrote a book on Rolex so he must be some kind of expert on these watches.
He says the dial is outstanding !!
He should know right?
He wrote a book many collectors including myself bought his book for reference material.
It is a very informative book.
I think he also says he lectures on how to spot a fake Rolex?
I do not know him but sounds like he could help this forum WATCH OUT for fakes.
The dial to me does not look right and the hands look to me luminova.
He did not state anything on the hands and just said the dial is outsatnding in his ad.
If I am wrong please correect me.
I am not an expert but look to the many books and forums for answers when in doubt.

[ossodiseppia]

Originally Posted by greekbum

The seller if I am not mistaken wrote a book on Rolex so he must be some kind of expert on these watches he says the dial is outstanding. He should know right?He wrote a book many collectors including myself bought his book for reference material.The dial to me does not look right and the hands look to me luminova. If I am wrong please correect me. I am not an expert but look to the many books and forums for answers when in doubt.

Yes, the face doesn't look right. What are luminova hands? Are these a newer replacement type from Rolex or are they after market?

If everything else checks out on the watch, can't the RSC replace the hands with the correct ones?

[Noonan]

Luminova is the type of lume material used. If original, I'd think the hands would have a bit more patina like the hour markers and the pearl.

[ossodiseppia]

Hmm, it looks like none of you ever sleep.

I just had a nice chat with the seller. Here's what he had to say. The watch was brought in as a trade. They serviced the watch and gave it an overhaul. They did not install a crown tube gasket as the early subs didn't have them. Is this true? He also said they did not replace the crown.

They did not do anything to the case, face, hands or band. I commented that the face looks like it could be a relume. He admitted it could very well be. However, they think that the puffiness or roundness of the markers at 6, 9, and 12 are due to something he called bleed out. To me, this means that the material that was used may have plasticized and flowed. I kinda figured the material once dried, stayed put. He also agreed that the hands may have been replaced in the past. Oh, the date wheel is original. They replaced the crystal with an OE part.

The band is a 93150 with the divers extension and 11 links. It has 580 end pieces. He admitted the band was a bit worn and the crown buckle reflects that.

I asked why the price dropped from $6250 to $4850 over the last few months. He said that all prices are off by about 30% because of the economy.

He agreed to take some detailed pictures and email them to me. So, I'll post them as soon as I can. All in all, the seller seems like a reasonable guy.

This a cash and carry or wire transfer transaction. The idea of sending $5k to someone I've never met scares me.

[greekbum]

Originally Posted by ossodiseppia

Hmm, it looks like none of you ever sleep.

I just had a nice chat with the seller. Here's what he had to say. The watch was brought in as a trade. They serviced the watch and gave it an overhaul. They did not install a crown tube gasket as the early subs didn't have them. Is this true? He also said they did not replace the crown.

They did not do anything to the case, face, hands or band. I commented that the face looks like it could be a relume. He admitted it could very well be. However, they think that the puffiness or roundness of the markers at 6, 9, and 12 are due to something he called bleed out. To me, this means that the material that was used may have plasticized and flowed. I kinda figured the material once dried, stayed put. He also agreed that the hands may have been replaced in the past. Oh, the date wheel is original. They replaced the crystal with an OE part.

The band is a 93150 with the divers extension and 11 links. It has 580 end pieces. He admitted the band was a bit worn and the crown buckle reflects that.

I asked why the price dropped from $6250 to $4850 over the last few months. He said that all prices are off by about 30% because of the economy.

He agreed to take some detailed pictures and email them to me. So, I'll post them as soon as I can. All in all, the seller seems like a reasonable guy.

This a cash and carry or wire transfer transaction. The idea of sending $5k to someone I've never met scares me.

Is the seller the gentleman that wrote a very good book and also specializes in how to spot fake Rolex's?

Someone like this should be able to give a 100% answer to your question on the dial.

[ossodiseppia]

Originally Posted by greekbum

Is the seller the gentleman that wrote a very good book and also specializes in how to spot fake Rolex's?

Someone like this should be able to give a 100% answer to your question on the dial.

Indeed he is. I wonder if his book addresses this bleedout?

[ossodiseppia]

Ok, here are the pictures.

[greekbum]

Originally Posted by ossodiseppia

Indeed he is. I wonder if his book addresses this bleedout?

I did a simple google search and found this from this seller:
In fact, when it comes to Rolex I wrote the book on it... LITERALLY!

I am considered one of the world’s leading authorities on Rolex and I frequently lecture various watch clubs and organizations on the history of Rolex, as well as the identification of counterfeit and replica Rolex watches and parts.

If he says it's good than I would take his word on it.He has a good reputation has written books etc. I doubt he would try and pull a fast one.Hes not a newbie.Good luck with whatever decision you make on it.

[ibsober]

Just curious if anyone has the link to the watch in question...I'd like to take a look at it and the seller.

[onkyo]

Can someone please post a link to this watch?????

[ossodiseppia]

Originally Posted by onkyo

Can someone please post a link to this watch?????

http://www.network54.com/Forum/20767...1655%2C+116710

[onkyo]

Originally Posted by ossodiseppia

http://www.network54.com/Forum/20767...1655%2C+116710

Thank you. Looks like VRF...

[Chozn1]

On the bottom of his website someone called him out on another dial. I doubt it will stay there long, but it's interesting.

[stevemulholland3]

fyi
there has been a lot of discussion about this watch and several others posted by the seller in the past few days..
I do know the seller personally and he is a good guy,but that being said we all need to be 100% responsible for everything we sell especially in todays economic climate...people are being very cautious with good reason...no-one can afford a 5k hit..or a 2k hit for that matter..
I suggest you call mr brozek yourself and ask him to explain some of the things that have come to light..it could be that one just snuck thru..it does happen,even to the experts..

[ossodiseppia]

Originally Posted by stevemulholland3

fyi
there has been a lot of discussion about this watch and several others posted by the seller in the past few days..
I do know the seller personally and he is a good guy,but that being said we all need to be 100% responsible for everything we sell especially in todays economic climate...people are being very cautious with good reason...no-one can afford a 5k hit..or a 2k hit for that matter..
I suggest you call mr brozek yourself and ask him to explain some of the things that have come to light..it could be that one just snuck thru..it does happen,even to the experts..

I chatted with him at great length about the watch. He's supposed to be an expert on these things. In my opinion, He didn't provide a definitive answer about the face. It's nice watch, but not at $4,800. I've passed on the watch. And, I think I'm going to pass on doing business with him.

I am not dis-ing the guy, but anybody can publish a book that makes them look like an expert. I've seen this in the car world and I am sure that it happens in other places.

[springer]

Originally Posted by ossodiseppia

I chatted with him at great length about the watch. He's supposed to be an expert on these things. In my opinion, He didn't provide a definitive answer about the face. It's nice watch, but not at $4,800. I've passed on the watch. And, I think I'm going to pass on doing business with him.

I am not dis-ing the guy, but anybody can publish a book that makes them look like an expert. I've seen this in the car world and I am sure that it happens in other places.

We've been saying that for a while here. Writing a book does not make anyone an expert , except maybe in writing a book. Sometimes, fiction and nonfiction appear on the same shelves at the bookstore!!!!!

I've been following this thread since it was listed and thought I'd see how it played out. I've met this fellow Brozeck before and talked with him. Seems to be a personable guy. When I saw this watch listed for sale, read the description, and saw some of the same issues with the watch, one doesn't have to wonder way he was so nonrevealing.

There is no doubt he was looking for a novice buyer that wouldn't notice any issues with the watch. It was sure nice of him to tell you about any issues with the watch, AFTER you called him. If the watch was as it should be, it would have sold some time ago. Sometimes buying the buyer isn't good enough - a little knowledgable advice is only a keyboard away here on the forum. Based on the thread, the watch listing and your conversation, I concur that you made the right decision passing on this watch, and buyer.

[springer]

here are a few close-ups of my 1972, Submariner 1680.

[greekbum]

Originally Posted by springer

here are a few close-ups of my 1972, Submariner 1680.

Nice watch Springer.Did the red fade or is it a service dial? You didn't get the rare bleed out dial on yours?

[springer]

Originally Posted by greekbum

Nice watch Springer.You didn't get the rare bleed out dial on yours?

I was lucky I guess. I didn't get the bleed-out and got it from the original owner. This 1680 is from 1978 not 1972. My previous post was a typo, my Submariner 5513 is a 1972, not my 1680. The only two vintage Subs I own and I can't keep the years straight. LOL

Here are a couple more dial close-ups.

[tudorman8276]

...that is simply A W E S O M E!

Stan.

[ossodiseppia]

Originally Posted by greekbum

.....You didn't get the rare bleed out dial on yours?

You guys are killing me.

I am going to start a new thread about my quest for a 1680.

[onkyo]

I don't think so.....