What the heck have RSC's been on about??!!

[wappinghigh]

Its 2020..And look at the repercussions!!!

Just trawl thru the countless posts asking now about the authenticity (or not) of this original dial vs that service dial.. these service hands... that relume...this "new" (should be old) bezel.... and on it goes...Rolex RSC's have single handedly destroyed thousands upon thousands of unique vintage watches... their own brand!!!.... And there is no apology (to the Rolex vintage community)?? Not even a "well we go that all wrong?!" ?

I thought these were supposed to be enthusiast "watch" guys!

And it seems c 2020...they haven't changed tac on this attitude?

What brand does that?

Who treats their loyal fan club like that?... you take in your pride and joy vintage piece (you've paid a fortune for) and they whisk it away and swap stuff out on you without even telling you or asking your consent first??

And they can't even be bothered to call mid service, to ask a loyal customer what you want to do?? In this day and age of sms and the mobile phone?!

Is that what I'm really hearing?

Is this for real?

And if you won't agree to this totalitarian type behaviour....they won't even service your watch?!!!

Come again?? Say what?!

Who are these guys?

Are they the mafia or something?

So what is/has been the explanation for this sort of behaviour?

Do they argue they can't get COS certification with an old dial or bezel??? (or something)

Is there any other explanation for this sort of business like bully boy behaviour with someone else's property?

And we all thought they were our watches?

Should we be re-thinking that?

[Andad]

I think you need to rethink some of the threads you have been posting?

[wappinghigh]

Originally Posted by directioneng

I think you need to rethink some of the threads you have been posting?

Why?

What's wrong with asking such questions?

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by wappinghigh

Why?



What's wrong with asking such questions?

Because every forum we look at has you complaining about Rolex. Did they hurt your watch or are you just very concerned about other peoples' property ?

[wappinghigh]

Originally Posted by EEpro

Because every forum we look at has you complaining about Rolex. Did they hurt your watch or are you just very concerned about other peoples' property ?

It's not complaining... it's a curiosity what on earth is going on with Rolex (the company)...?

That's all...

Sure I'm concerned about others property.. also what to do about my own.. and what the future holds for our beloved brand.... which seems to be living and operating in some sort of alternative 20thC Universe.

Love my Rolex..

But Rolex certainly doesn't have the business practices and be offering a service and retail experience that I am used to, in the 21C world that I live in right now...

That is for sure!

I doubt I'm the only one feeling this...

Anyway...

Just curious what the excuse is? - for such a draconian service center attitude... C 2020?

IMO!

[037]

Originally Posted by wappinghigh

It's not complaining... it's a curiosity what on earth is going on with Rolex (the company)...?

Originally Posted by wappinghigh

Just trawl thru the countless posts asking now about the authenticity (or not) of this original dial vs that service dial.. these service hands... that relume...this "new" (should be old) bezel.... and on it goes...Rolex RSC's have single handedly destroyed thousands upon thousands of unique vintage watches... their own brand!!!.... And there is no apology (to the Rolex vintage community)?? Not even a "well we go that all wrong?!" ?

Yeah, that's complaining.

The way you phrase your questions is rather combative.

With that said, Rolex's primary objectives are to sell you a new watch or service your existing watch to return to like-new condition. Value retention isn't within that objective. Yes, they have a vintage department in Switzerland for truly rare and valuable pieces, but anything with a Cal 3000 or newer movement is treated the same and brought back to new and functional condition, value be damned.

There is no excuse to be assumed here other than a business model that doesn't align with the "collector" mentality. That's all.

Knowing that, independent watchmakers who use genuine parts or local Rolex dealers with in-house watchmakers are the best path for any watch one wishes to keep in a specific condition, be that original dial/hands, case finish, faded/worn parts, etc.

[Juhuatai]

I’m not sure I understand. Rolex’s goal is to make your watch function as it was designed. To them a dial with dead lume is not functioning and thus needs to be replaced. Same with hands insert etc. I personally don’t see anything wrong with this. Yes I like vintage but I don’t fault them for trying to bring old watches back to spec. You wouldn’t want to wear a sub diving without being able to see the time (totally hypothetical I know everyone use dive computers now). You always have the option of going independent...

[wappinghigh]

Originally Posted by Juhuatai

I’m not sure I understand. Rolex’s goal is to make your watch function as it was designed. To them a dial with dead lume is not functioning and thus needs to be replaced. Same with hands insert etc. I personally don’t see anything wrong with this. Yes I like vintage but I don’t fault them for trying to bring old watches back to spec. You wouldn’t want to wear a sub diving without being able to see the time (totally hypothetical I know everyone use five computers now). You always have the option of going independent...

Sure... but I've just been told independents don't get proper access to ongoing training, certified parts and equipment etc etc.. is that correct?

And why is this an excuse for not giving the owner of a watch the options or choice what to do ...say mid service?

And if one doesn't want to proceed- returning it in a state which you left it with them?

[Fleetlord]

Originally Posted by wappinghigh

Its 2020..And look at the repercussions!!!

Just trawl thru the countless posts asking now about the authenticity (or not) of this original dial vs that service dial.. these service hands... that relume...this "new" (should be old) bezel.... and on it goes...Rolex RSC's have single handedly destroyed thousands upon thousands of unique vintage watches... their own brand!!!.... And there is no apology (to the Rolex vintage community)?? Not even a "well we go that all wrong?!" ?

I thought these were supposed to be enthusiast "watch" guys!

And it seems c 2020...they haven't changed tac on this attitude?

What brand does that?

Who treats their loyal fan club like that?... you take in your pride and joy vintage piece (you've paid a fortune for) and they whisk it away and swap stuff out on you without even telling you or asking your consent first??

And they can't even be bothered to call mid service, to ask a loyal customer what you want to do?? In this day and age of sms and the mobile phone?!

Is that what I'm really hearing?

Is this for real?

And if you won't agree to this totalitarian type behaviour....they won't even service your watch?!!!

Come again?? Say what?!

Who are these guys?

Are they the mafia or something?

So what is/has been the explanation for this sort of behaviour?

Do they argue they can't get COS certification with an old dial or bezel??? (or something)

Is there any other explanation for this sort of business like bully boy behaviour with someone else's property?

And we all thought they were our watches?

Should we be re-thinking that?

Why are you so frantic?

I mean come on, who asks questions this frantically?

Is this what I’m reading?

Frantic questions about the intentions of RSC?

What is the explanation for this behavior?

Who are you?

What do you mean?

What do you want TRF to do?

[037]

Spot on.

[zapokee]

They're assholes about vintage. We know this.

If you have a friend who's an asshole in some respects, either get a new friend or appreciate his good points and work around it. No point raging. He's not going to change.

[wappinghigh]

Originally Posted by zapokee

They're assholes about vintage. We know this.

If you have a friend who's an asshole, either get a new friend or appreciate his good points and work around it. No point raging. He's not going to change.

Well I didn't know this till coming on this forum and asking a few second hand local dealers... so I am learning fast... I hate making mistakes on future purchases and the maintenance of such.....

"Rolex are Assholes about Vintage".. Ok.. I am starting to get it..

Weird that.. I would have thought as a company esteemed in tradition (and that being a massive selling point of the brand) it would be the absolute reverse..?

Yet another one of the amazing peculiarities of this rather ellusive company I guess..?

Anyway.. Appreciate the insight.. and Thanks for your informative contribution..

Cheers

[wappinghigh]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

Why are you so frantic?

I mean come on, who asks questions this frantically?

Is this what I’m reading?

Frantic questions about the intentions of RSC?

What is the explanation for this behavior?

Who are you?

What do you mean?

What do you want TRF to do?

Just record it and acknowledge an enthusiast like me thinks there is a problem with RSC's here?

(I won't be the only one...)

I mean who knows...heaven for bid...might even bring change? I don't know....

This whole company seems hell bent not to change...

Just an observation... nothing more man....

I aint nobody other than a genuine enthusiast..

Anyway

Love my Rolex!

[Tavli3]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

Why are you so frantic?

I mean come on, who asks questions this frantically?

Is this what I’m reading?

Frantic questions about the intentions of RSC?

What is the explanation for this behavior?

Who are you?

What do you mean?

What do you want TRF to do?

Send your watch to Omega for service and see what happens!
A friend of mine who I had no idea had a beautiful vintage Speedie saw mine one night we were out to dinner and said I have one of those and I just sent it to Omega for a service. After my face went from ghastly white back to natural flesh color I said you need to call first thing in the morning to make sure you get the original parts back! He questioned what I was talking about cause he said all he's getting is a routine service and I said Stu when you get your watch back it will be worth less than half it was before you sent it for a service. Sure enough it came back with replaced everything. Luckily he somehow got the original components back and I took him to a watchmaker to reinstall the original parts.

So RSC is not doing anything different than any other brand with vintage watches.

[Token74]

Everyone I speak to bangs on about how great it is that Rolex and other similar brands make their watch look shiny new again when it goes in for service.

It’s a very small community of Internet nerds (I include myself btw) that want them to return our watch in its banged-up state with failing lume, faded bezel, corroded hands, dented case, stretched bracelet, and dirty dial!

If you really don’t want them to do all that, you can always find an independent watch maker to service it.

Not sure what this issue is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wappinghigh]

Originally Posted by Token74

Everyone I speak to bangs on about how great it is that Rolex and other similar brands make their watch look shiny new again when it goes in for service.

It’s a very small community of Internet nerds (I include myself btw) that want them to return our watch in its banged-up state with failing lume, faded bezel, corroded hands, dented case, stretched bracelet, and dirty dial!

If you really don’t want them to do all that, you can always find an independent watch maker to service it.

Not sure what this issue is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sure - I get we enthusiasts are a unique bunch! however, we are the pulse... the life blood - of the brand!!! So we need to be looked after IMO!.. It's Very hard to find such an independent watchmaker Rolex repair shop here my friend....and I live right in the heart a city of 5 million. Not the outback.. One of the big 2 cities in the country.... And I just talked to one of the premium vintage Rolex retail bricks and mortar dealers here about it (been in the industry 30 plus years) and even he said it's getting hard to find good independent second hand Rolex service.....watch making skills are a dying art?? Could a crisis be developing as old independent watchmakers die off?? Does Rolex need to address it's RSC's on this issue?? Anyway Appreciate your feedback...Cheers .

[Brew]

Originally Posted by wappinghigh

Sure - I get we enthusiasts are a unique bunch! however, we are the pulse... the life blood - of the brand!!! So we need to be looked after IMO.

This made me laugh. We are none of the above. We are a pimple on Rolex's prodigious butt! We cry and complain about stuff most of the real world doesn't give a rat's ass about. Why should Rolex cater to us, when they can just sell their watches to folks who won't cry and complain?

[wappinghigh]

^ So why couldn't Rolex have two distinct services? A/ Those for Joe Public (who wants his watch back like new) ...and B/ an "enthusiast service".

Just roll it out as a policy world wide...

I mean how hard can it be...?

To be flexible and give customers a choice?

A or B?

Heaven forbid.. l mean careful Rolex.... steady on here... are we moving too fast? ...to want a bit of flexibility here??.. it's c2020??!

I mean is that too much to ask?

Why does Rolex have to be such control freaks on this issue??.. like aren't they our watches??

(I'm starting to wonder!)

Geeeez!

[wappinghigh]

This OP began after a discussion with the premium vintage dealer here..

He has a pre luminoma GMT in stock from the 60's...it was kinda hard to check out on the webpage so I went in to see it bricks and mortar...

It's only after spending hours reading and asking questions on this forum and all the help back from everyone that I now know how to pick "service" dials, hands and bezel, relume..etc (so thanks to everyone for that)!

HEck before coming on here, I didn't even know a "Service" replacement (of "anything") even existed!!!.. I mean this is an anthema to me as an antique//vintage lover and collector..... of anything! Who does that?!!!

So it was real easy to pick once I looked at it in the flesh..it was obvious.. the entire thing has been "replaced".. by Rolex gdamn it.. maybe the dial in the 90's (it was still a tritium dial...but obviously not an original matt)..the hands who knows when?.. and recently (last service this year) the bezel..!!! destroyed!! By Rolex!

(and all the original parts thrown away!!!)

So I asked him "what the"??

He tells me well if it was an "original" orginal it would be worth another 10K!!!... so here we have proof Rolex has ripped up 10k of history~!

It's not the Chinese counterfeiters or the shonks or the ebay swinderlers... It's ROLEX itself!!!! say what!??!!!

Bloody tragedy!!! (if you ask me!)

He then pulls out his own (undamaged by Rolex) "equivalent" and now "I get it!!!"..(what all the fuss is about genuine vintage!) I mean wow!!!

Then he tells me even he's afraid to send his watch to the local RSC!!!!

got me thinking!!!

If he is thinking that.. what the heck have Rolex RSC's been on about all these years?!

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by wappinghigh

This OP began after a discussion with the premium vintage dealer here..

He has a pre luminoma GMT in stock from the 60's...it was kinda hard to check out on the webpage so I went in to see it bricks and mortar...

It's only after spending hours reading and asking questions on this forum and all the help back from everyone that I now know how to pick "service" dials, hands and bezel, relume..etc (so thanks to everyone for that)!

HEck before coming on here, I didn't even know a "Service" replacement (of "anything") even existed!!!.. I mean this is an anthema to me as an antique//vintage lover and collector..... of anything! Who does that?!!!

So it was real easy to pick once I looked at it in the flesh..it was obvious.. the entire thing has been "replaced".. by Rolex gdamn it.. maybe the dial in the 90's (it was still a tritium dial...but obviously not an original matt)..the hands who knows when?.. and recently (last service this year) the bezel..!!! destroyed!! By Rolex!

(and all the original parts thrown away!!!)

So I asked him "what the"??

He tells me well if it was an "original" orginal it would be worth another 10K!!!... so here we have proof Rolex has ripped up 10k of history~!

It's not the Chinese counterfeiters or the shonks or the ebay swinderlers... It's ROLEX itself!!!! say what!??!!!

Bloody tragedy!!! (if you ask me!)

He then pulls out his own (undamaged by Rolex) "equivalent" and now "I get it!!!"..(what all the fuss is about genuine vintage!) I mean wow!!!

Then he tells me even he's afraid to send his watch to the local RSC!!!!

got me thinking!!!

If he is thinking that.. what the heck have Rolex RSC's been on about all these years?!

“Uh-huh. Speed kills, Del.” - Dr. Johnny Fever

[904VT]

Originally Posted by wappinghigh

This OP began after a discussion with the premium vintage dealer here..

He has a pre luminoma GMT in stock from the 60's...it was kinda hard to check out on the webpage so I went in to see it bricks and mortar...

It's only after spending hours reading and asking questions on this forum and all the help back from everyone that I now know how to pick "service" dials, hands and bezel, relume..etc (so thanks to everyone for that)!

HEck before coming on here, I didn't even know a "Service" replacement (of "anything") even existed!!!.. I mean this is an anthema to me as an antique//vintage lover and collector..... of anything! Who does that?!!!

So it was real easy to pick once I looked at it in the flesh..it was obvious.. the entire thing has been "replaced".. by Rolex gdamn it.. maybe the dial in the 90's (it was still a tritium dial...but obviously not an original matt)..the hands who knows when?.. and recently (last service this year) the bezel..!!! destroyed!! By Rolex!

(and all the original parts thrown away!!!)

So I asked him "what the"??

He tells me well if it was an "original" orginal it would be worth another 10K!!!... so here we have proof Rolex has ripped up 10k of history~!

It's not the Chinese counterfeiters or the shonks or the ebay swinderlers... It's ROLEX itself!!!! say what!??!!!

Bloody tragedy!!! (if you ask me!)

He then pulls out his own (undamaged by Rolex) "equivalent" and now "I get it!!!"..(what all the fuss is about genuine vintage!) I mean wow!!!

Then he tells me even he's afraid to send his watch to the local RSC!!!!

got me thinking!!!

If he is thinking that.. what the heck have Rolex RSC's been on about all these years?!

I'm not sure you're too big of vintage enthusiast/collector if you never have heard of service dials and parts before. This has been going on for a long long time. It's not too complicated, many of these parts are no longer in production in original form and Rolex still wants to be able to service these watches (up to spec) if requested. Not everyone wants a semi-working "patina" watch. And Rolex can't service warranty a watch with non-working parts. Please put some thought into writing in paragraph form lol

[1665fan]

How many vintage pieces do you own? To be so concerned....

[Randomgary]

I've not been here long.

I have some sympathy for those who feel they have lost out but quite quickly I came to the understanding of ....


If you want an original piece then you service with a local specialist who you can talk to throught the process.

If you want your watch restored to new then its RSC


It's very simple really.

[Justinmg]

I don’t see it that way, I just sent in my 35 yr old Rolex date, and they didn’t even recommend replacing the tritium dial or hands. They were very responsive to my request and so far has been a great experience with RSV Dallas. I had them replace the silver dial with a black dial and replace the hands so they glow, and I got no push back. Highly recommend RSC Dallas, oh and they were cheaper then the independents I contacted.

[116710er]

Originally Posted by Justinmg

Highly recommend RSC Dallas, oh and they were cheaper then the independents I contacted.

This is by design. Rolex makes it VERY difficult, if not damn near impossible for independents to get the parts that they need for service so the cost of the parts are high which raises the cost of the service by independents.

If more independents were allowed to hold these unicorn "parts accounts", independents would be less expensive.


To add to the OP's original discussion, I couldn't agree with you more. I've had a few issues with RSC on just ONE watch. In my experience, they absolutely give ZERO F's about your watch and your requests. They may or may not honor your requests and when they do mess up, you'll have to fight them to get some sort of resolution. The best part, when they do F up, they PERMANENTLY damage the value of the watch...and of course, they don't care.

[wappinghigh]

Originally Posted by 116710er

This is by design. Rolex makes it VERY difficult, if not damn near impossible for independents to get the parts that they need for service so the cost of the parts are high which raises the cost of the service by independents.

If more independents were allowed to hold these unicorn "parts accounts", independents would be less expensive.


To add to the OP's original discussion, I couldn't agree with you more. I've had a few issues with RSC on just ONE watch. In my experience, they absolutely give ZERO F's about your watch and your requests. They may or may not honor your requests and when they do mess up, you'll have to fight them to get some sort of resolution. The best part, when they do F up, they PERMANENTLY damage the value of the watch...and of course, they don't care.

Indeed.

Thanks for your support.. so how come Rolex have got away with this behaviour so long?... under consumer law and all?
Isn't this anti-competitive behaviour (against the independants)?

I mean I can't believe it frankly... maybe in the 1970's... but this is 'Merica (land of the Consumer) and it's now 2020..

[Styles Bitchley]

I get restoring a watch to new condition. It’s a logical approach for a brand with a focus on today and the future.

What I do think is a clearly dubious practice is not returning parts to the customer who is buying new parts. These parts, especially dials and inserts, can have massive value. I’m not sure why someone who has been unwittingly had their valuable dial replaced (they post here from time to time) take legal action against Rolex to have it returned. The values we’re talking about these days are not insignificant.

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by Styles Bitchley

I get restoring a watch to new condition. It’s a logical approach for a brand with a focus on today and the future.

What I do think is a clearly dubious practice is not returning parts to the customer who is buying new parts. These parts, especially dials and inserts, can have massive value. I’m not sure why someone who has been unwittingly had their valuable dial replaced (they post here from time to time) take legal action against Rolex to have it returned. The values we’re talking about these days are not insignificant.

I hear ya, man, but I'm sure Rolex would rather you not have back your old $3,000 bezel insert that you could then sell to the next guy, whom they would MUCH rather have walk into an RSC so they could sell him a new one. Doesn't make it alright, of course.

[haven_seeker]

....This individual needs their own forum.

[wappinghigh]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

I hear ya, man, but I'm sure Rolex would rather you not have back your old $3,000 bezel insert that you could then sell to the next guy, whom they would MUCH rather have walk into an RSC so they could sell him a new one. Doesn't make it alright, of course.

Yes.. I think you have nailed the issue right there with that insightful comment...!