Got a call for 5167R from AD but..

[Nutkunkup]

Hi,

Just got a call from AD about 5167R but AD ask me to buy it as a bundle (watch’s price at least $50,000).

Are AD in US or Europe do this ?

Thanks

[enjoythemusic]

Please do yourself a favor and call Patek in Switzerland +41 (22) 8842020 and ask them if this business practice is something they support. Let them know of the dealer in questions as well as am sure they'd want to know.

As for the dealer's 'offer', you know the truth deep in your heart. Your having to post here on TRF and asking tells the sad tale. :(

Again, please call Patek as they need to know about this dealer situation. If not for you, please do it for the next person who may have to suffer from this business practice by that dealer. Thank you.

[Collector2019]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Please do yourself a favor and call Patek in Switzerland +41 (22) 8842020 and ask them if this business practice is something they support. Let them know of the dealer in questions as well as am sure they'd want to know.

As for the dealer's 'offer', you know the truth deep in your heart. Your having to post here on TRF and asking tells the sad tale. :(

Again, please call Patek as they need to know about this dealer situation. If not for you, please do it for the next person who may have to suffer from this business practice by that dealer. Thank you.

They know and they allow it fully. Not all of their watches sell, some needs clients hands forcing to get them sold.

I wrote to patek about this practice and examples of other shitty bundles I.e., buy full gold Rolex and get on the nautilus list LOL. Patek doesn’t care honestly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GrahamM]

Originally Posted by Collector2019

They know and they allow it fully. Not all of their watches sell, some needs clients hands forcing to get them sold.

I wrote to patek about this practice and examples of other shitty bundles I.e., buy full gold Rolex and get on the nautilus list LOL. Patek doesn’t care honestly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Did Patek get back to you?

Is the full gold Rolex only to get on the list? Is the delivery of Nautilus guaranteed over a certain time period

I am glad my AD does not have a similar practice.

[martinr]

If you think about it by responding to the question Patek will only look bad, what could they possibly say that wouldn’t? We don’t condone it, they look bad, we’re sorry, they look bad, our AD’s shouldn’t do it, they look bad etc. So it’s to their advantage to ignore the question and really they want their AD’s to sell as many watches as possible and bundling is one way of accomplishing that.

[Collector2019]

Originally Posted by GrahamM

Did Patek get back to you?

Is the full gold Rolex only to get on the list? Is the delivery of Nautilus guaranteed over a certain time period

I am glad my AD does not have a similar practice.

Other than the automated confirmation of receipt, No.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by Collector2019

Patek doesn’t care honestly.

And that's why i sold most of my Pateks except for a kinda rare vintage piece quite a few years ago. Was a Patek enthusiast and collector for decades, yet could easily sense the changeover many years ago when their USA arm changed locations, plus the unqualified young kid took over.

When you also think about it, and let's be honest with ourselves here, their exceedingly short two-year warranty combined with excruciatingly long service times more than tells the tale. Now we have obvious bundling, etc.

Patek is merely living off of their past reputation at this point, and that reputation is coughing on the last gasps of fumes. Brands such as FPJ, ALS and others are now the real kings of the 'mainstream' mechanical timepiece trade. There's some truly impressive smaller independents too.


Hey Patek Philippe, fire the kid and bring back the old man imho. At the very least, please fire the kid and get someone in there who knows what they're doing before Patek becomes widely known as "That old brand that was quite good a long time ago, yet nowadays they're just in it with a half-hearted gesture to keep their dim flame lit".

PS: Before others chime in a reply, please let me know how many decades you've been an enthusiast and collector.

[martinr]

Hey enjoythemusic what you wrote is advocacy journalism and has nothing to do with anything except your attitude. You’ve been ranting about Patek for practically a decade and how old are you? A collector for decades? How many decades and so what who cares it doesn’t mean anything. Your post is opinionated bluster masquerading as fact but why let the facts get in the way of what you believe.

[Collector2019]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

And that's why i sold most of my Pateks except for a kinda rare vintage piece quite a few years ago. Was a Patek enthusiast and collector for decades, yet could easily sense the changeover many years ago when their USA arm changed locations, plus the unqualified young kid took over.

When you also think about it, and let's be honest with ourselves here, their exceedingly short two-year warranty combined with excruciatingly long service times more than tells the tale. Now we have obvious bundling, etc.

Patek is merely living off of their past reputation at this point, and that reputation is coughing on the last gasps of fumes. Brands such as FPJ, ALS and others are now the real kings of the 'mainstream' mechanical timepiece trade. There's some truly impressive smaller independents too.


Hey Patek Philippe, fire the kid and bring back the old man imho. At the very least, please fire the kid and get someone in there who knows what they're doing before Patek becomes widely known as "That old brand that was quite good a long time ago, yet nowadays they're just in it with a half-hearted gesture to keep their dim flame lit".

PS: Before others chime in a reply, please let me know how many decades you've been an enthusiast and collector.

I thought patek only losing potential clients but it seems even old and loyal ones are not happy too.

FPJ Lange VC AP all great watch makers and some of them ahead of patek “history aside”.

We are lucky in an era of great independent watch makers legends like Phillippe Dufour, Roger Smith, George Daniel and Kari are exceptional watchmakers; owning a timepiece of their work would match if not exceed the best of Pateks. Also we have a lot of up and coming very talented watch makers of the like of Rexhap his work on the AK or CC is mind blowing to say the least.

If patek is not satisfying your demands look elsewhere and you shall be happy you did.

Oh and mention to me the gronfeld brothers with their constant force mechanism or Lodovic with his funky upside down style, not to mention the engine turned classical dial the Californian based Joshua makes, or simply anything Hajime makes.


To conclude, paying attribute to Charles Frodsham.


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[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by Collector2019

FPJ Lange VC AP all great watch makers and some of them ahead of patek “history aside”.

We are lucky in an era of great independent watch makers legends like Phillippe Dufour, Roger Smith, George Daniel and Kari are exceptional watchmakers; owning a timepiece of their work would match if not exceed the best of Pateks. Also we have a lot of up and coming very talented watch makers of the like of Rexhap his work on the AK or CC is mind blowing to say the least....

Thank you for a great post. While we all owe gratitude to many of Patek's early innovations, craftsmanship, and service to mechanical timepiece enthusiasts, indeed there are many modern boutique / independent manufacturers who are taking the craft in innovative directions. Overall, it is truly fascinating in the many directions and techniques many of us never dreamed of only a decade or two ago. From the use of new materials to completely rethinking what a wrist instrument is capable of both mechanically and visually.

If i may say to everyone reading this, thanks also for 'putting up with me'. At times i can be...

...perhaps due to some idyllic 'world' i forsee that benefits us all. This extends far beyond mechanical timepieces and into other industries. Have recently come to realize my hopes are perhaps unrealistic, and this is something I've been personally struggling with as of late.

Thanks again, and as always in the end what really matters is that you... enjoy your time.

[bob101]

That’s bad but heard it goes on, would avoid this dealer out of principle.

[YYR]

I’ve been offered watches above msrp before from ADs

[YYR]

It’s definitely annoying, but on the flip side I don’t complain when the AD gives me a discount so why should I complain when they charge more, the fact is it’s very difficult paying the AD game, it’s a balancing act, on the one hand they can’t sell anything above the msrp on the other hand all the non in demand watches they can’t sell for msrp we all expect discounts? When was the last time somone spent full price on a JLc/IWC/Chopard/ect. We can’t have it both ways. The AD is in the business to make money they are very transparent about that, the issue is now collectors also got into the businesses to make money And that’s in direct competition to the dealers

[sgwatchguy]

Happens in Asia I know for sure. Sad.

What’s the other watch, if he is specifying one? Or your choice on what to spend $50k?

[Nutkunkup]

Originally Posted by sgwatchguy

Happens in Asia I know for sure. Sad.

What’s the other watch, if he is specifying one? Or your choice on what to spend $50k?

$50k of my choice but most of them are not popular model and it’s look not fit to me and some are ladies.

[sgwatchguy]

Originally Posted by Nutkunkup

$50k of my choice but most of them are not popular model and it’s look not fit to me and some are ladies.

See what you can buy with ability to flip for the lowest possible loss. Selling right now is going to be brutal tbh, as some on other threads are attesting to.
Else get creative and see what other deals he’s open to.

[qrc36]

I've visited the Salon in Geneva 3 times in the last 2 years, to buy accessories for my watches (navy blue straps for 5524, 5172 strap for my 5212, white deployant...) and during my time there, whilst waiting for staff to bring me my things / handling payment / doing tax refund, each time I have overheard the staff telling customers something like this in English (and one time in Mandarin Chinese):

Staff: "You can't just buy a Nautilus, you need to buy other watches first, such as the beautiful pilot's watch or an annual calendar or a ladies' watch, and then you can buy the Nautilus ..."

Customer: "So can I buy a Nautilus and an Aquanaut after buying a pilot's watch?"

Staff: "No, you have to buy one or two more watches before you can buy the Aquanaut, so you need to have one or two watches in between ... the same rules apply in your country and also here in Geneva ... so you can only buy a sports watch after buying a few other watches...."

It actually shocked me how direct they were to the customers, who were seated in the salon and asking to see/buy Nautilus/Aquanauts.

So basically Patek knows this type of bundling - whether you're getting 2 watches at the same time as a bundle, or "bundling over a period of time" by getting a dress watch first and a sports watch later ...

[Murcielagoboy2]

Originally Posted by qrc36

I've visited the Salon in Geneva 3 times in the last 2 years, to buy accessories for my watches (navy blue straps for 5524, 5172 strap for my 5212, white deployant...) and during my time there, whilst waiting for staff to bring me my things / handling payment / doing tax refund, each time I have overheard the staff telling customers something like this in English (and one time in Mandarin Chinese):

Staff: "You can't just buy a Nautilus, you need to buy other watches first, such as the beautiful pilot's watch or an annual calendar or a ladies' watch, and then you can buy the Nautilus ..."

Customer: "So can I buy a Nautilus and an Aquanaut after buying a pilot's watch?"

Staff: "No, you have to buy one or two more watches before you can buy the Aquanaut, so you need to have one or two watches in between ... the same rules apply in your country and also here in Geneva ... so you can only buy a sports watch after buying a few other watches...."

It actually shocked me how direct they were to the customers, who were seated in the salon and asking to see/buy Nautilus/Aquanauts.

So basically Patek knows this type of bundling - whether you're getting 2 watches at the same time as a bundle, or "bundling over a period of time" by getting a dress watch first and a sports watch later ...

I don't consider this bundling to be honest.

Demand for sports Patek **currently** exceeds supply by a long way. Each AD has over 50 people a day coming in asking for a Nautilus who have no relationship with the brand (of which 40 are speculators who think they'll make a quick buck). AD/Geneva now have a choice. Tell people:

"I don't know you. I get very few Nautilus every year. They go to loyal customers who are proven fans of the brand and not just interested in a speculative fad. So get out of my store and get lost"
OR
"I don't know you. I get very few Nautilus every year. Here are some other watches which you may want to consider, and in time with some purchase history and demonstrable enthusiasm for the brand, we may be able to allocate you a hard-to-get model."

Telling people the latter isn't bundling. What those guys in Geneva appeared to be saying wasn't bundling.


Bundling is when you walk into an AD, demand a 5711, he doesn't know you, doesn't care about your future business, or whether you're a speculator, and and he says, "you can take my 5711 in the back if you buy this 5327 and a 5270 right now".

That's bundling.
At least that's my view.

Pity. The whole brand is being soiled by the desperate need for two lines of Patek which aren't even their most beautiful offerings... :shakes head and sighs:

[YYR]

Originally Posted by Murcielagoboy2

I don't consider this bundling to be honest.

Demand for sports Patek **currently** exceeds supply by a long way. Each AD has over 50 people a day coming in asking for a Nautilus who have no relationship with the brand (of which 40 are speculators who think they'll make a quick buck). AD/Geneva now have a choice. Tell people:

"I don't know you. I get very few Nautilus every year. They go to loyal customers who are proven fans of the brand and not just interested in a speculative fad. So get out of my store and get lost"
OR
"I don't know you. I get very few Nautilus every year. Here are some other watches which you may want to consider, and in time with some purchase history and demonstrable enthusiasm for the brand, we may be able to allocate you a hard-to-get model."

Telling people the latter isn't bundling. What those guys in Geneva appeared to be saying wasn't bundling.


Bundling is when you walk into an AD, demand a 5711, he doesn't know you, doesn't care about your future business, or whether you're a speculator, and and he says, "you can take my 5711 in the back if you buy this 5327 and a 5270 right now".

That's bundling.
At least that's my view.

Pity. The whole brand is being soiled by the desperate need for two lines of Patek which aren't even their most beautiful offerings... :shakes head and sighs:

Well said I think you explained this nicely

[aproo]

Agreed, spot on. Nicely done..!

Originally Posted by YYR

Well said I think you explained this nicely

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by Murcielagoboy2

I don't consider this bundling to be honest.

Demand for sports Patek **currently** exceeds supply by a long way. Each AD has over 50 people a day coming in asking for a Nautilus who have no relationship with the brand (of which 40 are speculators who think they'll make a quick buck). AD/Geneva now have a choice. Tell people:

"I don't know you. I get very few Nautilus every year. They go to loyal customers who are proven fans of the brand and not just interested in a speculative fad. So get out of my store and get lost"
OR
"I don't know you. I get very few Nautilus every year. Here are some other watches which you may want to consider, and in time with some purchase history and demonstrable enthusiasm for the brand, we may be able to allocate you a hard-to-get model."

Telling people the latter isn't bundling. What those guys in Geneva appeared to be saying wasn't bundling.


Bundling is when you walk into an AD, demand a 5711, he doesn't know you, doesn't care about your future business, or whether you're a speculator, and and he says, "you can take my 5711 in the back if you buy this 5327 and a 5270 right now".

That's bundling.
At least that's my view.

Pity. The whole brand is being soiled by the desperate need for two lines of Patek which aren't even their most beautiful offerings... :shakes head and sighs:

One of the best posts I’ve ever read on this forum. Especially the last sentence.

[ttee]

Originally Posted by Murcielagoboy2

I don't consider this bundling to be honest.

Demand for sports Patek **currently** exceeds supply by a long way. Each AD has over 50 people a day coming in asking for a Nautilus who have no relationship with the brand (of which 40 are speculators who think they'll make a quick buck). AD/Geneva now have a choice. Tell people:

"I don't know you. I get very few Nautilus every year. They go to loyal customers who are proven fans of the brand and not just interested in a speculative fad. So get out of my store and get lost"
OR
"I don't know you. I get very few Nautilus every year. Here are some other watches which you may want to consider, and in time with some purchase history and demonstrable enthusiasm for the brand, we may be able to allocate you a hard-to-get model."

Telling people the latter isn't bundling. What those guys in Geneva appeared to be saying wasn't bundling.


Bundling is when you walk into an AD, demand a 5711, he doesn't know you, doesn't care about your future business, or whether you're a speculator, and and he says, "you can take my 5711 in the back if you buy this 5327 and a 5270 right now".

That's bundling.
At least that's my view.

Pity. The whole brand is being soiled by the desperate need for two lines of Patek which aren't even their most beautiful offerings... :shakes head and sighs:

I heard the same thing in HK Audemars Piguet Boutique.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by qrc36

So basically Patek knows this type of bundling - whether you're getting 2 watches at the same time as a bundle, or "bundling over a period of time" by getting a dress watch first and a sports watch later ...

I'd still call Patek in Switzerland and let them know of the situation. That's certainly NOT how they did things years ago. Has Patek become an even worse company than i imagined???

OP, if you want PM me the dealer's name and I'll call Patek for you, because as a journalist I'm curious if they approve of this type of activity.

[jamestucker]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

I'd still call Patek in Switzerland and let them know of the situation. That's certainly NOT how they did things years ago. Has Patek become an even worse company than i imagined???

OP, if you want PM me the dealer's name and I'll call Patek for you, because as a journalist I'm curious if they approve of this type of activity.

It is very common practice, it happens every where including the US and the UK.

Watches of Switzerland had asked people to buy other watches if they wanted to but Aquanauts or Nautilus.

[qrc36]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

I'd still call Patek in Switzerland and let them know of the situation. That's certainly NOT how they did things years ago. Has Patek become an even worse company than i imagined???

OP, if you want PM me the dealer's name and I'll call Patek for you, because as a journalist I'm curious if they approve of this type of activity.

This was at the Salon in Geneva, Patek's own boutique and their flagship.

It happens all around the world, and is allowed by Patek (and essentially promoted by Patek, because they are allowing it to continue). Patek knows it's a way for them to sell their less popular items.

Happens at Hermes too, they basically force people to buy their clothes, plates/bowls, lamps, furniture etc. in order to get a coveted bag.

[jamestucker]

Originally Posted by qrc36

This was at the Salon in Geneva, Patek's own boutique and their flagship.

It happens all around the world, and is allowed by Patek (and essentially promoted by Patek, because they are allowing it to continue). Patek knows it's a way for them to sell their less popular items.

Happens at Hermes too, they basically force people to buy their clothes, plates/bowls, lamps, furniture etc. in order to get a coveted bag.

This happens in London too.

[VacherObsessive]

Originally Posted by qrc36

Happens at Hermes too, they basically force people to buy their clothes, plates/bowls, lamps, furniture etc. in order to get a coveted bag.

They’re not forcing people to do anything

Loyal customers get the pick of the litter; for everyone else, you can’t have it, or feel free to buy it used at actual market value. Quite simple really

[jon_jon]

If you don't have a relationship with an AD with a previous purchase history, how does an AD know if someone is a flipper or a reseller? They would rather sell to loyal clients, especially the hard to get pieces. The past few years, so many flippers have come out of the woods to make a quick profit and that happens with other items besides watches, when an item sells over list price on the secondary market.

I have never bundled, but I think it is a reasonable business proposition. If you don't like the offer, negotiate or walk away. An AD will have no problem selling an Aquanaut and the AD has no obligation to a new person without a purchase history. There is no guarantee someone will return to buy more watches or refer other people to the business. It is the current state with Patek sports watches and Rolex SS sport watches.

[jenniferjanef]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

I'd still call Patek in Switzerland and let them know of the situation. That's certainly NOT how they did things years ago. Has Patek become an even worse company than i imagined???

OP, if you want PM me the dealer's name and I'll call Patek for you, because as a journalist I'm curious if they approve of this type of activity.

Please do kindly keep us posted.

[Razorsedge1]

Originally Posted by qrc36

I've visited the Salon in Geneva 3 times in the last 2 years, to buy accessories for my watches (navy blue straps for 5524, 5172 strap for my 5212, white deployant...) and during my time there, whilst waiting for staff to bring me my things / handling payment / doing tax refund, each time I have overheard the staff telling customers something like this in English (and one time in Mandarin Chinese):

Staff: "You can't just buy a Nautilus, you need to buy other watches first, such as the beautiful pilot's watch or an annual calendar or a ladies' watch, and then you can buy the Nautilus ..."

Customer: "So can I buy a Nautilus and an Aquanaut after buying a pilot's watch?"

Staff: "No, you have to buy one or two more watches before you can buy the Aquanaut, so you need to have one or two watches in between ... the same rules apply in your country and also here in Geneva ... so you can only buy a sports watch after buying a few other watches...."

It actually shocked me how direct they were to the customers, who were seated in the salon and asking to see/buy Nautilus/Aquanauts.

So basically Patek knows this type of bundling - whether you're getting 2 watches at the same time as a bundle, or "bundling over a period of time" by getting a dress watch first and a sports watch later ...

Sort of like buying a new Ferrari - develop a relationship and we will let you order that 488....