All blue GMT fake

[antrolexsub]

Originally Posted by uncleluck

That’s how they look to me. When you look at the zoom of that 8 it looks more like blue over the silver where it shouldn’t be, you can see the feint outline underneath.

People keep saying it’s missing/chipped silver but it looks like additional blue over where it should have been shielded out.

It’s physically impossible. If there’s a silver numeral underneath, that means it’s been masked correctly, the blue dye will not take to a masked area.

[moneypenny]

12 pages long.. I love this topic. "foolberry" the blues is fake.. 100%

[Gmt21]

Originally Posted by antrolexsub

It’s physically impossible. If there’s a silver numeral underneath, that means it’s been masked correctly, the blue dye will not take to a masked area.

Orchi talks about this paint bleeding and I’ve read others discuss it being sticky. Perhaps with this theory the paint bled onto the numbers after manufacturing?

[BigBlue1]

Originally Posted by moneypenny

12 pages long.. I love this topic. "foolberry" the blues is fake.. 100%

I like it.

[gsg]

Originally Posted by roh123

Buy the seller has never been a good mantra to begin with. How could anyone know what happened to watches before they got them if they didn’t own them from the start? It is impossible for people to know if the watches were put-together or whatever by a previous owner. Collectors collect and dealers deal to the best of their knowledge. Regardless of their moral, knowledge level or whatever they still need make judgement calls on what they buy and sell. There’s no way to know just by trusting the person that sells. The best possible way to buy is to know what you are buying. Not from who. A dubiois seller can sometimes have great things and a welltrusted one can sometimes have problems. Buying the seller is naive.

Well, there was a time when buying from the right seller would have granted you some confidence you were at least buying original parts. In a perfect world, a good seller would care for his reputation and would make sure you are getting a genuine watch. People use to pay a premium to buy from the right seller for the peace of mind and the seller’s expertise.
None of this seems to have applied in the case of the crappy-berry inserts.


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[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by Gmt21

Orchi talks about this paint bleeding and I’ve read others discuss it being sticky. Perhaps with this theory the paint bled onto the numbers after manufacturing?

Wait. You mean the paint on the insert...after being manufactured and sold...THEN bled?

[roh123]

Originally Posted by gsg

Well, there was a time when buying from the right seller would have granted you some confidence you were at least buying original parts. In a perfect world, a good seller would care for his reputation and would make sure you are getting a genuine watch. People use to pay a premium to buy from the right seller for the peace of mind and the seller’s expertise.
None of this seems to have applied in the case of the crappy-berry inserts.


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This is still the case. But authentic parts doesn’t necessarily mean untouched, all original etc. Personally I would recommend anyone buying expensive watches to read up and learn before spending money. Regardless if it is 10k or even millions. Authentic or not shouldn’t really be a question. That should be a given.

When it comes to blueberries these have been questioned since the day they came up. For some reason they got accepted by some and thus there have been a market for them. It’s not like any ’trusted dealer’ would know when no one else knows. They just go where the market is and deal. It’s their job.

[Gmt21]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

Wait. You mean the paint on the insert...after being manufactured and sold...THEN bled?

No idea just guessing since the paint seems unstable.

[phillip ridley]

Originally Posted by roh123

Buy the seller has never been a good mantra to begin with. How could anyone know what happened to watches before they got them if they didn’t own them from the start? It is impossible for people to know if the watches were put-together or whatever by a previous owner. Collectors collect and dealers deal to the best of their knowledge. Regardless of their moral, knowledge level or whatever they still need make judgement calls on what they buy and sell. There’s no way to know just by trusting the person that sells. The best possible way to buy is to know what you are buying. Not from who. A dubiois seller can sometimes have great things and a welltrusted one can sometimes have problems. Buying the seller is naive.

That is a valid point!

[79280_116520]

Originally Posted by roh123

Buy the seller has never been a good mantra to begin with. How could anyone know what happened to watches before they got them if they didn’t own them from the start? It is impossible for people to know if the watches were put-together or whatever by a previous owner. Collectors collect and dealers deal to the best of their knowledge. Regardless of their moral, knowledge level or whatever they still need make judgement calls on what they buy and sell. There’s no way to know just by trusting the person that sells. The best possible way to buy is to know what you are buying. Not from who. A dubiois seller can sometimes have great things and a welltrusted one can sometimes have problems. Buying the seller is naive.

This I agree. Lots of collectors have put TOO MUCH "faith" in the "trusted" sellers that they fail to do due diligence on their own. It's basically taking a "leap of faith".

It's funny how there is one "reputable" dealer who has sold over 20 blueberries with brand new looking bezels. The constant stories have been told that it's VERY RARE. If the average sold price of a blueberry is $40k x 20 = $800k of ill-gotten profiting. I feel bad for those 20 naive collectors with too much pocket money...

[oysterquartz17000]

Originally Posted by 79280_116520

This I agree. Lots of collectors have put TOO MUCH "faith" in the "trusted" sellers that they fail to do due diligence on their own. It's basically taking a "leap of faith".

It's funny how there is one "reputable" dealer who has sold over 20 blueberries with brand new looking bezels. The constant stories have been told that it's VERY RARE. If the average sold price of a blueberry is $40k x 20 = $800k of ill-gotten profiting. I feel bad for those 20 naive collectors with too much pocket money...

Thats insane. I feel sorry for all of the blueberry owners out there. These must be stressful times indeed.

[soicanbefree]

Originally Posted by oysterquartz17000

Thats insane. I feel sorry for all of the blueberry owners out there. These must be stressful times indeed.

Man... you aren't kidding. I never really paid attention to how many were flowing through just 1 dealer.

It was literally 20 1675s dated from 1972 to 1979.

It doesn't matter how much patina the dial/hands has.. the bezel insert looks factory fresh.

Fakeberry indeed. I'm not sure how it wasn't obvious that these are all frankenwatches.

[roh123]

Imagine this..

It is around 1999 and a parts dealer meets an old watchmaker in Florida. The dealer is offered a bulk of parts including some odd looking all blue inserts. They could have been described as service parts from a RSC, as custom made aftermarket inserts or just that no one knew. The dealer buys them as they look genuine from the font and basically cost nothing.

Once back the dealer shows these inserts to his friends and they agree that they kind of look genuine. Still no one ever saw all blue inserts so they aren’t really sellable. The dealer sells/gives away some to his friends and they all like their new cheap, fun insert. Time goes and one of his friends has a lose UAE dial and an odd looking all red gmt hand. The friends joke around and says it will look cool put-together. And indeed it does. The friend then comes up with the idea that they should see what Rolex says about his all red hand UAE dialed blueberry GMT. He goes to the New York RSC and submits the watch for insurance evaluation. The RSC gives him a receipt of what has been submitted and eventually also gives him a letter back describing an UAE 1675 with an all blue insert. What started with some odd parts is now suddenly ’approved by RSC’. The friend proudly posts his new watch on the collector forum together with the service paper. Long, long discussions start and people are intrigued. No one ever saw that before. Some are sceptic and some are amazed.

After a while the dealer thinks he might be able to sell these mythical all blue inserts. After all Rolex did respond when it was submitted and people doesn’t really conpletely discard these as fakes. He sells a few to other people he knows and these eventually spread out. Probably mostly as a fun thing. One day one of these friends wants to sell the all blue insert and suddenly it isn’t just for 50usd. It is for 1000usd and he actually sells it as an ultra rare part. The dealer realizes he just won the jackpot if these inserts really are rare and expensive. He still has a ton of inserts left. Over the years he sells them for 1k, 2k, 4k and suddenly they are costing more than a 1675 itself. The inserts eventually trade on watches for huge premiums. Good times!

One day people really start to question what started as a 10 dollar fun thing that quickly became a big dollar business. The dealer who still don’t know if they are real or not need to stick by his story. Not like he can reimburse 30/40/50 10k-inserts that he have sold over the years. Not even like he made that kind of money as he sold some cheap and some expensive. Market value is what people will expect back. So that means that the inserts have to be real.

Not saying this happened. Just speculating.

Personally I have no idea and I can’t say I care. I never had one and I don’t plan to ever buy one.

[Paulie 50]

Originally Posted by 79280_116520

This I agree. Lots of collectors have put TOO MUCH "faith" in the "trusted" sellers that they fail to do due diligence on their own. It's basically taking a "leap of faith".

It's funny how there is one "reputable" dealer who has sold over 20 blueberries with brand new looking bezels. The constant stories have been told that it's VERY RARE. If the average sold price of a blueberry is $40k x 20 = $800k of ill-gotten profiting. I feel bad for those 20 naive collectors with too much pocket money...

What do they say? A fool and his money are soon parted. My later father used to ask how a fool had money in the first place.

[Richard Carver]

Wonder what the market on Blueberries is like today?

[mignonp13]

It is dead for sure but we still not know if they are genuine or not ??!!!
Only hypotheses of the 2 parts but nothing concrete !


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[037]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

Wonder what the market on Blueberries is like today?

There's one on C24 with a radial dial and all-red hand for $60k US. No papers. I'm thinking about snapping it up before it's gone. Seems like a bargain.

https://www.chrono24.com/rolex/gmt-m...id12393804.htm

Jokes aside, it's a good looking watch. Radial dials are the bee's knees.

[RolexPassion]

so can you explain me please why in this and many other example the Blue paint is gone, or really ruined
but the gray number are perfect ??
I think this is enough to proof your hypothesis that the numbers are printed above the blue paint is wrong...

[1bad750]

Originally Posted by roh123

Imagine this..

It is around 1999 and a parts dealer meets an old watchmaker in Florida. The dealer is offered a bulk of parts including some odd looking all blue inserts. They could have been described as service parts from a RSC, as custom made aftermarket inserts or just that no one knew. The dealer buys them as they look genuine from the font and basically cost nothing.

Once back the dealer shows these inserts to his friends and they agree that they kind of look genuine. Still no one ever saw all blue inserts so they aren’t really sellable. The dealer sells/gives away some to his friends and they all like their new cheap, fun insert. Time goes and one of his friends has a lose UAE dial and an odd looking all red gmt hand. The friends joke around and says it will look cool put-together. And indeed it does. The friend then comes up with the idea that they should see what Rolex says about his all red hand UAE dialed blueberry GMT. He goes to the New York RSC and submits the watch for insurance evaluation. The RSC gives him a receipt of what has been submitted and eventually also gives him a letter back describing an UAE 1675 with an all blue insert. What started with some odd parts is now suddenly ’approved by RSC’. The friend proudly posts his new watch on the collector forum together with the service paper. Long, long discussions start and people are intrigued. No one ever saw that before. Some are sceptic and some are amazed.

After a while the dealer thinks he might be able to sell these mythical all blue inserts. After all Rolex did respond when it was submitted and people doesn’t really conpletely discard these as fakes. He sells a few to other people he knows and these eventually spread out. Probably mostly as a fun thing. One day one of these friends wants to sell the all blue insert and suddenly it isn’t just for 50usd. It is for 1000usd and he actually sells it as an ultra rare part. The dealer realizes he just won the jackpot if these inserts really are rare and expensive. He still has a ton of inserts left. Over the years he sells them for 1k, 2k, 4k and suddenly they are costing more than a 1675 itself. The inserts eventually trade on watches for huge premiums. Good times!

One day people really start to question what started as a 10 dollar fun thing that quickly became a big dollar business. The dealer who still don’t know if they are real or not need to stick by his story. Not like he can reimburse 30/40/50 10k-inserts that he have sold over the years. Not even like he made that kind of money as he sold some cheap and some expensive. Market value is what people will expect back. So that means that the inserts have to be real.

Not saying this happened. Just speculating.

Personally I have no idea and I can’t say I care. I never had one and I don’t plan to ever buy one.

[Verdi]

Originally Posted by roh123

Imagine this..

It is around 1999 and a parts dealer meets an old watchmaker in Florida. The dealer is offered a bulk of parts including some odd looking all blue inserts. They could have been described as service parts from a RSC, as custom made aftermarket inserts or just that no one knew. The dealer buys them as they look genuine from the font and basically cost nothing.

Once back the dealer shows these inserts to his friends and they agree that they kind of look genuine. Still no one ever saw all blue inserts so they aren’t really sellable. The dealer sells/gives away some to his friends and they all like their new cheap, fun insert. Time goes and one of his friends has a lose UAE dial and an odd looking all red gmt hand. The friends joke around and says it will look cool put-together. And indeed it does. The friend then comes up with the idea that they should see what Rolex says about his all red hand UAE dialed blueberry GMT. He goes to the New York RSC and submits the watch for insurance evaluation. The RSC gives him a receipt of what has been submitted and eventually also gives him a letter back describing an UAE 1675 with an all blue insert. What started with some odd parts is now suddenly ’approved by RSC’. The friend proudly posts his new watch on the collector forum together with the service paper. Long, long discussions start and people are intrigued. No one ever saw that before. Some are sceptic and some are amazed.

After a while the dealer thinks he might be able to sell these mythical all blue inserts. After all Rolex did respond when it was submitted and people doesn’t really conpletely discard these as fakes. He sells a few to other people he knows and these eventually spread out. Probably mostly as a fun thing. One day one of these friends wants to sell the all blue insert and suddenly it isn’t just for 50usd. It is for 1000usd and he actually sells it as an ultra rare part. The dealer realizes he just won the jackpot if these inserts really are rare and expensive. He still has a ton of inserts left. Over the years he sells them for 1k, 2k, 4k and suddenly they are costing more than a 1675 itself. The inserts eventually trade on watches for huge premiums. Good times!

One day people really start to question what started as a 10 dollar fun thing that quickly became a big dollar business. The dealer who still don’t know if they are real or not need to stick by his story. Not like he can reimburse 30/40/50 10k-inserts that he have sold over the years. Not even like he made that kind of money as he sold some cheap and some expensive. Market value is what people will expect back. So that means that the inserts have to be real.

Not saying this happened. Just speculating.

Personally I have no idea and I can’t say I care. I never had one and I don’t plan to ever buy one.

You summed it up pretty well, my friend. Thats is what I could also gather.


@RolexPassion
Does this sound correct to you?!

[canadianswiss]

Originally Posted by soicanbefree

Man... you aren't kidding. I never really paid attention to how many were flowing through just 1 dealer.

It was literally 20 1675s dated from 1972 to 1979.

It doesn't matter how much patina the dial/hands has.. the bezel insert looks factory fresh.

Fakeberry indeed. I'm not sure how it wasn't obvious that these are all frankenwatches.

The inserts have always been controversial to say the least.
Serious collectors around the world were always very concern and careful.
I bet you majority of these watches were bought by “new money”.
The buyers has not been as experienced as the old school collectors, they lack a lot of vintage Rolex knowledge and they go by the going rule of “buy the seller”.
I was always saying, to whoever wanted to listen: “buy the watch”!

In a nutshell, inexperienced buyers operating on their BELIEVES, not knowledge, has made the market for blueberries possible.

:):)





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[swish77]

Even before this latest train-wreck of an argument/debate, these inserts always had "a story," meaning doubts. That was one reason I stayed away (along with the ridiculous prices).

What happened to the adage, stay away from watches (or parts) with "a story"? So surprising so many dealers/collectors/buyers didn't follow that mantra.

Almost doesn't matter if they're real or not, these inserts would (will) always be questioned, although it seems now there is more certainty they are not even a Rolex part, service or otherwise.

[springer]

Originally Posted by swish77

Even before this latest train-wreck of an argument/debate, these inserts always had "a story," meaning doubts. That was one reason I stayed away (along with the ridiculous prices).

What happened to the adage, stay away from watches (or parts) with "a story"? So surprising so many dealers/collectors/buyers didn't follow that mantra.

Almost doesn't matter if they're real or not, these inserts would (will) always be questioned, although it seems now there is more certainty they are not even a Rolex part, service or otherwise.

"Almost doesn't matter if they're real or not," isn't quite right Aaron. It makes a significant difference if they are real, genuine Rolex inserts. At this time, Rolex is the only entity that can verify their authenticity, and they aren't talking. Unless someone files a civil or fraudulent criminal complaint - and forces Rolex's hand, they will forever be "a bezel insert with a story."

[canadianswiss]

Originally Posted by springer

"Almost doesn't matter if they're real or not," isn't quite right Aaron. It makes a significant difference if they are real, genuine Rolex inserts. At this time, Rolex is the only entity that can verify their authenticity, and they aren't talking. Unless someone files a civil or fraudulent criminal complaint - and forces Rolex's hand, they will forever be "a bezel insert with a story."

Well, I would beg to differ.
Even though Rolex statement on those bezels would be nice it is not entirely necessary in my opinion.
We have brains for a reason, let’s just use them.
We know certain facts about those bezels that, logically, exclude almost any and all possibility of those bezels to be an AUTHORIZED Rolex product.
Most of us do not need to see a Rolex letter to figure it out.
Just like nobody ever seen a atom yet we know atoms exist.

:):)


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[RolexPassion]

Originally Posted by springer

"Almost doesn't matter if they're real or not," isn't quite right Aaron. It makes a significant difference if they are real, genuine Rolex inserts. At this time, Rolex is the only entity that can verify their authenticity, and they aren't talking. Unless someone files a civil or fraudulent criminal complaint - and forces Rolex's hand, they will forever be "a bezel insert with a story."

or must find a person who worked in Singer in that years maybe can tell us if they made it or not ......

[Fredrik]

There are a couple of guys in the older thread who stated they used to have a stash of these, it would be interesting to hear the back story of that. But they are not talking.

[Showcall]

It's funny how there is one "reputable" dealer who has sold over 20 blueberries with brand new looking bezels. The constant stories have been told that it's VERY RARE. If the average sold price of a blueberry is $40k x 20 = $800k of ill-gotten profiting. I feel bad for those 20 naive collectors with too much pocket money...[/QUOTE]

If you go back and look at the 20 Foolberry's sold out of San Francisco the craziest thing is, none of them have a UAE Dial! is that not part of the myth? The first one I ever saw ( from the UK) had a UAE Dial and a story regards a body guard and the armed forces.. yet San Fran became a hub for these GMT's

[1675-David]

Originally Posted by Fredrik

There are a couple of guys in the older thread who stated they used to have a stash of these, it would be interesting to hear the back story of that. But they are not talking.

Interesting reading these older Blueberry threads!! Lots of theories about the blueberry insert, everyone (including myself) just seemed to accept they were for real

Some said you could pick them up at service centers some that they were special order only. Others claimed a military connection, French, UAE, they are made for Cartier, they were made for the Japanese market, they were made by mistake and sold out the back door...

It's amusing to consider that this all-blue bezel insert has a history more colorful and more shrouded in mystery than Keyser Söze

[1665fan]

Hard pass for me

[steeevvvooo]

Originally Posted by 1675-David

Interesting reading these older Blueberry threads!! Lots of theories about the blueberry insert, everyone (including myself) just seemed to accept they were for real



Some said you could pick them up at service centers some that they were special order only. Others claimed a military connection, French, UAE, they are made for Cartier, they were made for the Japanese market, they were made by mistake and sold out the back door...



It's amusing to consider that this all-blue bezel insert has a history more colorful and more shrouded in mystery than Keyser Söze

The "Keyser Söze" is a great nickname!! Or for fans of Top Gear... "The Stig". Some say...

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